Should HAL prohibit power scooters?

[peaches from georgia]

I think the responsibility for safety rests with the scooter operator who is driving the vehicle. He should look around and not back up until it is clear behind him and not rely on someone else in the aisle to know his intentions, especially when the scooter is already moving in reverse before other people around hear the beeps and realize he is backing up.

[RuthC]

What a wise man once told me about driving a car, is also true walking and operating a scooter:

The right of way is not something you have; it is something that someone gives you. If you don't want to be hurt by a car, scooter, bicycle, or another walker, best watch where you are going and assume they will not be the one to give.

[SantaAna,CA]

There are some cruise lines that cannot accommodate scooters or walkers. The Seabourn small ships are among them.

 

One way to avoid them. Of course, you'll be paying three times as much. Or four. I've lost count, I was priced off Seabourn two years ago.

[jiminyC_fan]

Is this thread for real? Good grief.

[Okie1946]

I think the responsibility for safety rests with the scooter operator who is driving the vehicle. He should look around and not back up until it is clear behind him and not rely on someone else in the aisle to know his intentions, especially when the scooter is already moving in reverse before other people around hear the beeps and realize he is backing up.

 

Please folks, don't point fingers at one another or blame one person (able body or mobile assisted) for others lack of attention to their surroundings. People should be aware of their surroundings at all time.

 

I watched a healthy adult male be blissfully unaware of where he was going as he walked as he was talking to others, run over and knock down a little girl as she crossed the street holding her mothers hand. He hit her with such force that her mother lost her grip. As the girl was "pushed" from behind she fell, hitting her face on the street curb. She lost two teeth and broke her nose. The "gentleman" berated the parents for not watching the little girl better.

 

Safety is not one persons responsibility, it is everyone's. That way we can all move from point A to point B and arrive at our destination in one piece.

 

Any way - that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

 

Previous Cruises:

Alaska - Westerdam - September 2009

Alaska- Rotterdam - September 2010

Mexican Riveria - Oosterdam - April 2011

 

Future Cruises – in planning stage:

2012 - Alaska – Amsterdam – September - 14 day cruise - getting closer to booking

2013 - Eastern Med - 28 day (includes cruising Black Sea)

 

 

 

\

[Hlitner]

We think the scooters are a great tool for those that need them for mobility. That being said, DW and I have almost been run down and/or crushed several times on cruises. On our most recent Prinsendam cruise there were two passengers (must have been related) who would come flying around the corner and into elevators as soon as the door opened. It did not matter to them if others were in the elevator (that is where I nearly lost my foot and DW was nearly crushed) or that other folks were patiently waiting for that same elevator. I also had one lady with a scooter just cut in front of me while I was waiting my turn at the lunch sandwich bar. At that point I did let out a snappy "excuse me!" To the credit of the staff making the sandwiches they ignored this lady until they had waited on everyone else.

 

Hank

[Bobblsc]

I guess you missed the part about I was waiting in line to enter the theater. She had already bulldozed other people out of the way and was trying to force me out of the way also. As I also noted, she was getting a reputation for this type of behavior and there was sotto voice comments by others as she repeatedly behaved this way over the course of the first few days of the cruise. She obviously was depending on her age and handicap to protect her from the consequences of her actions as no one would tolerate this behavior from a young able body person.

 

A bully is a bully is a bully, whether they are in a scooter or able bodied. I refused to be bullied by her and was brave enough to stand up to her. I received thumbs up from several cruisers as I walked by on my way to turn in the key.

 

You must have also missed the part where her behavior improved after that episode so I doubt she had slow reflexes.

 

I would repeat that behavior again in a heartbeat if the situation warranted it.

 

Once again CC washed out a lengthy reply I had written. So here's to you CC nerds, blah.

 

Bob :cool:

[fleckle]

I think the responsibility for safety rests with the scooter operator who is driving the vehicle. He should look around and not back up until it is clear behind him and not rely on someone else in the aisle to know his intentions, especially when the scooter is already moving in reverse before other people around hear the beeps and realize he is backing up.

Just like the driver of an automobile is responsible for looking to see who or what is behind him before backing up.

 

Besides, many cruise ship passengers are hard of hearing and may not even hear the beeps at all. :eek:

[luvbluseas]

If common courtesy is observed by all, there should not be a problem.

 

Able-bodied people should be aware of those who are not. Holding a door for someone, not crowding the person on the scooter, these are all things that take but a second of consideration.

 

Those on scooters (and the people with them) should also be courteous. Park your scooter out of the way, don't drive it at high speeds, and be aware of others around you.

 

I do think that, as regards elevators and hallways, people on scooters sometimes don't queue up, and I do find that annoying. If I've been waiting quite a while for an elevator and I was there before the person on the scooter, I would feel I was -- from a consideration all around standpoint -- right to board the elevator first.

 

 

And my DH and I agree 100%. My DH is ever the gentleman, he ALWAYS waits his turn, he ALWAYS lets ladies go first, then elderly gentlemen or the handicapped and then able bodied men. Even when he is walking with his cane and in severe pain (which he often is) he always waits his turn. When I first met him 35+ years ago, one of the first things I noticed about him (besides his beautiful blue eyes) was what a gentleman he is. It was drummed into him by his Grandfather and Father and he has never forgotten it! And he has never used his handicap as an excuse for rudeness.

[cjm66]

If common courtesy is observed by all, there should not be a problem.

 

I do think that, as regards elevators and hallways, people on scooters sometimes don't queue up, and I do find that annoying. If I've been waiting quite a while for an elevator and I was there before the person on the scooter, I would feel I was -- from a consideration all around standpoint -- right to board the elevator first.

 

I agree. We observe the "who got here first" informal queuing system for lifts when we are cruising and wave people in and wait for the next lift - its cruise time not rush hour after all. There are some situations where I do go ahead of the queue. On shore there may be a limited number of accessible coaches transferring passengers to and from the pier. I will go to the head of the queue and request that we are given priority to board an accessible coach. At tender ports, I organise to use the internal (staff or frieght) lift to get to the tender deck instead of waiting in the corridor and negotiating the narrow stairs down to this level.

 

We have never had a bad experience with other passengers and if anything they enter into sharing the freedom of movement and enjoyment of our cruise that our scooter provides.

 

Colleen

[esther e]

Someone posted about needing assistance to get on a plane but magically being able to walk off easily. My husband has a vision problem and early Parkinson's and suffered a mild stroke. To look at him, you'd never know this. However, he would never be able to walk the distance from the entrance of the airport to the gate. Having been on the plane for even an hour, he is well able to walk off but needs assistance from the gate to luggage. One never knows why people need any sort of assistance, so judging is wrong. The same with handicapped stickers on cars -- there could be a myriad of reasons.

 

I know this is off topic regarding scooters, but I just wanted to put in my $.02 regarding someone very personal in my life.

 

However, there are those in scooters, wheelchairs or quite mobile who think the world owes them and they have priority. Very wrong. You can spot them a mile away and take appropriate action. These same people in life are difficult I would imagine.

 

Thanks for letting me let off some steam.:)

[babyher]

What a wise man once told me about driving a car, is also true walking and operating a scooter:

The right of way is not something you have; it is something that someone gives you. If you don't want to be hurt by a car, scooter, bicycle, or another walker, best watch where you are going and assume they will not be the one to give.

 

 

Excellent advice Ruth.

 

I don't care if there is a crosswalk, "Walk" sign, "Yield to Pedestrians" sign, or whatever. I look where I am going and keep an eye on who is coming around me.

 

You can argue "Didn't they see the sign ?"or "I had the right of way" all you want . Doesn't do you any good when you are flat on your back in the middle of the street. :(

[HeatherInFlorida]

Esther, that was me:) and I was attempting a moment of levity. Whenever I fly people joke about the "miracle flights". Of course there are exceptions. I'm sure you know people take advantage of the service.

 

I recently saw a man wheeled to the gate. He got up, went to the newstand, got an ice cream, came back and then was wheeled onto the plane. If he can walk to the newstand, he can walk on the plane. This man simply wanted priority boarding.

 

As you say, your husband can walk off the plane, but he doesn't continue through the airport, pick up his bags at baggage and walk out the doors to hail a cab. Those are the people I'm talking about and I've seen it many times.

 

As far as the scooters are concerned, I still believe they are vehicles no matter how small. If you are operating a vehicle in a pedestrian zone it behooves the driver to be the most mindful. That doesn't excuse the pedestrians who don't look where they're going and of course they should exercise courtesy. But if a driver is backing up a scooter, they should turn their heads and look where they're going ... that should be the first thing they do before backing up ... not sit there, head forward, and expect that people who possibly have their backs to them should see them. I understand that may not be a popular view here, but to me it's just common sense.

[ChollaChick]

I guess you missed the part about I was waiting in line to enter the theater. She had already bulldozed other people out of the way and was trying to force me out of the way also. As I also noted, she was getting a reputation for this type of behavior and there was sotto voice comments by others as she repeatedly behaved this way over the course of the first few days of the cruise. She obviously was depending on her age and handicap to protect her from the consequences of her actions as no one would tolerate this behavior from a young able body person.

 

A bully is a bully is a bully, whether they are in a scooter or able bodied. I refused to be bullied by her and was brave enough to stand up to her. I received thumbs up from several cruisers as I walked by on my way to turn in the key.

 

You must have also missed the part where her behavior improved after that episode so I doubt she had slow reflexes.

 

I would repeat that behavior again in a heartbeat if the situation warranted it.

 

Homosassa, it still wasn't your responsibility or right to remove the key from her regardless of her behavior. Was she being rude? Likely yes based on what you have said. Do I condone her behavior? Not at all. Nor do I condone yours. When people dart in front of a disabled person there is no "key" to remove and take to the pursers desk. What you did was cruel, in my opinion. A bully is a bully whether he walks or rides.

[esther e]

Heather, thanks for explaining. I guess we haven't seen anyone like you describe! The only instance that really ticked me off was at Publix recently during a "holiday weekend" when every handicapped space was taken. When we came out of the store we saw 2 college-age girls, very able bodied, hop into an SUV with a handicapped plate. Obviously a family member. If I'm alone in the car I would never take a handicapped space -- I don't need one.

 

I absolutely agree about everyone being observant to surroundings and watchful. However, as I said before, I've seen too many people of all stages of health, think they are owed and it boils my blood. I well remember back in teh 70's when we first started cruising we were in line for the gala midnight buffet unveiling when someone with a wheelchair pushed in front of us. I was young enough to hold my tongue -- today, not so sure!!!

[DaveOKC]

I understand the issues of better mobility, easier to handle, etc., but one time I was almost seriously injuried when a scooter was falling off a ramp with me directly below it. I caught it in time, but it was close. This happened in a very crowded situation which the scooter operator should have avoided IMO. Some people lack the common sense to operate these.

[babyher]

Esther, that was me:) and I was attempting a moment of levity. Whenever I fly people joke about the "miracle flights". Of course there are exceptions. I'm sure you know people take advantage of the service.

 

I recently saw a man wheeled to the gate. He got up, went to the newstand, got an ice cream, came back and then was wheeled onto the plane. If he can walk to the newstand, he can walk on the plane. This man simply wanted priority boarding.

 

As you say, your husband can walk off the plane, but he doesn't continue through the airport, pick up his bags at baggage and walk out the doors to hail a cab. Those are the people I'm talking about and I've seen it many times.

 

As far as the scooters are concerned, I still believe they are vehicles no matter how small. If you are operating a vehicle in a pedestrian zone it behooves the driver to be the most mindful. That doesn't excuse the pedestrians who don't look where they're going and of course they should exercise courtesy. But if a driver is backing up a scooter, they should turn their heads and look where they're going ... that should be the first thing they do before backing up ... not sit there, head forward, and expect that people who possibly have their backs to them should see them. I understand that may not be a popular view here, but to me it's just common sense.

 

 

 

 

Heather I know all too well the people you are talking about (Not all in that condition, but just enough rotten aples to spoil the bunch :()

 

We have a joke around here with some people . Thye stub their toe and they go see that famous Russain doctor Dr. Summeroff. :)

 

We have had more guys go off the job with their back, their knee , their shoulder , yadda yadda yadda . They leave here with a nice disabilty pension with their brace and cane and whatnot. A couple years later you hear they are in Florida doing landscaping or running a charter sailboat tour. So they can hoist the jib and raise the mizzenmast, but they couldn't pick a tissue off the floor and put it in the wastebasket

 

I am sure everyone has seen these "Boys in the Hood" type movies . There is always one young thug in a wheelchair in every gang. Presumably from some gang related shooting. A lot of those are a Social Security scam too.

 

Of course there are many many peole truly disab;ed , and in pain and in need of assistance . Wheter it is visable or not.

 

But I know full well that there are more "Miracles" than the ones that sing with Smokey Robison :)

[3rdGenCunarder]

Heather, thanks for explaining. I guess we haven't seen anyone like you describe! The only instance that really ticked me off was at Publix recently during a "holiday weekend" when every handicapped space was taken. When we came out of the store we saw 2 college-age girls, very able bodied, hop into an SUV with a handicapped plate. Obviously a family member. If I'm alone in the car I would never take a handicapped space -- I don't need one.

 

I absolutely agree about everyone being observant to surroundings and watchful. However, as I said before, I've seen too many people of all stages of health, think they are owed and it boils my blood. I well remember back in teh 70's when we first started cruising we were in line for the gala midnight buffet unveiling when someone with a wheelchair pushed in front of us. I was young enough to hold my tongue -- today, not so sure!!!

 

I have. The funny thing is, Heather is in Florida, and the flight I saw this on was a flight to Florida. I don't know if I would have noticed it, but my boss pointed it out. She did the trip a lot. When they called for people needing assistance, she told me to take note of who got on first and then watch them when we landed in FL. Lots of older people with canes. OK, fair enough, they got on first. When we landed, an announcement was made asking people who need assistance to wait for help. As soon as the seatbelt sign was off, many of the people who supposedly needed assistance got up and made a dash for the door. A few of them used their canes to make people get out of their way once we were through the jetway door and into the terminal. And believe me, if you've got a half-dozen seniors flailing away with their canes, you get out of the way!

 

The sad thing is, people who "work the system" to get an advantage that they don't really need undermine public opinion about the needs of handicapped people.

[sapper1]

Esther, that was me:) and I was attempting a moment of levity. Whenever I fly people joke about the "miracle flights". Of course there are exceptions. I'm sure you know people take advantage of the service.

 

I recently saw a man wheeled to the gate. He got up, went to the newstand, got an ice cream, came back and then was wheeled onto the plane. If he can walk to the newstand, he can walk on the plane. This man simply wanted priority boarding.

 

Heather,you could have been describing my father in the final days of his illness. He had a lung disorder which allowed him to walk a short distance but he needed a scooter or wheelchair assistance to do anything else. I am sure he would have been able to walk over to the newstand but he never would have made it through the airport and down the jetway and on the plane without gasping for air.

 

He looked perfectly healthy and he sometimes got the "look" when he used a handicapped parking spot.

 

I have learned never to judge what a person is or is not capable of and if I see someone in a wheelchair I take it at face value.

[mr green]

Remember, if all 'scooter cruisers' had their druthers, I am sure that to a man/woman, each and every one would prefer not to have to use one.

 

john

[Jacqueline]

The thread title could have been. "Should HAL Prohibit Rude People"

[lcand1923]

My Dad needed a cane for his first four cruises. He needed a rollator for his next two. His last cruise he ended up using the ship's wheelchair for a good portion of it (he became ill after the first meal onboard and spent most of the cruise in the Sick Bay). I tried to talk him into a cruise with a scooter, but he wouldn't go for it. I think the Sick Bay episode scared him. I cannot tell you the number of rude people who cut in front of him, kicked his cane, pushed him out of the way or shut the elevator doors in our face. HAL should consider banning Rude, Thoughtless, Disrespectful People! (But how do you identify them at booking time?)

[kazu]

The thread title could have been. "Should HAL Prohibit Rude People"

 

Totall agree :D That would have been a perfect title for this thread:D

[startwin]

Heather,you could have been describing my father in the final days of his illness. He had a lung disorder which allowed him to walk a short distance but he needed a scooter or wheelchair assistance to do anything else. I am sure he would have been able to walk over to the newstand but he never would have made it through the airport and down the jetway and on the plane without gasping for air.

 

He looked perfectly healthy and he sometimes got the "look" when he used a handicapped parking spot.

 

I have learned never to judge what a person is or is not capable of and if I see someone in a wheelchair I take it at face value.

 

Totally agree. That could have been my DH that Heather was talking about. Please don't be so quick to judge. My husband simply cannot walk up any slopes or any distance, and requires wheelchair assistance for boarding a plane or ship. But he can go a short distance on the level, though will likely be hurting and breathless.

[donaldsc]

Do to the many passengers who have suffered injuries due to careless operation of the scooters.

 

If this is really a problem and being rational about the problem (I have been know to be irrational at times), you could require that scooters have beepers on then. However, then people would probably be complaining about the constant din of the beepers.

 

How about all-scooter cruises and scooter-forbidden cruises. Would that solve the "problem"? It would also let the people on the all-scooter cruises to play scooter bumper car.

 

DON