Italians showing off???

[Bella cruiser]

Why is everyone so worked up over the title of this thread? :confused:

 

When I first read it I immediately thought that it meant the purpose of these close passes to shore was to show off the beautiful Italian landscape and because it is an Italian ship they did so with pride ...hence 'showing off'.

 

Can't understand why some of the posters are trying to turn it into something else entirely. I am frankly shocked with the vehemence of some posters and the nasty comments. :mad:

 

Interesting video Barry thanks for posting.

[gentlemancruiser]

Good on you Barry for not calling a spade a shovel.

 

Any shipmaster that allows his vessel to get within a few hundred metres of any coast on a voyage, when not in pilotage waters, should be sacked. If Costa Concordia passed between those islets south of the Giglio port as the AIS shows - what were they thinking - its only about 50 metres wide.

To endanger the lives of over 4000 souls & a 114,000 grt vessel is ------ I am speachless.

What happened to good seamanship, expert navigation & bridge management. Costa's management needs looking at & if they knew about the previous close passes - they should also be in the dock.

If this culture is commonplace with Costa & others - then thats another reason I will never sail with them.

Carnival Corp should investigate Costa - its management & senior officers.

 

John

Master mariner - 45 years in the Merchant Marine & 15 in command.

 

The mayor of Gigilo has been quoted by several media outlets saying that the Concorida has frequently done sail pasts of the island, but this time the ship was way too close.

 

This Captain and Costa Cruises are true idiot for permitting this practice. I hope that Carnival investigates this dangerous practice.

[Because123]

I would think that anything anyone offers up (other than the evidence of the fly-bys) is anecdotal.

 

We sailed Costa several years ago out of Miami. The ship itself was immaculate. The crew was mostly from the Phillipines, and they were wonderful. It was very family-friendly, and our only complaint was that the food was a little too "European" for our tastes (but the Europeans onboard loved it!).

 

Our understanding at the time was that Carnival had brought two Costa ships to the Caribbean because the Costa name was very familiar to European travelers. A very large percentage of our fellow passengers were in fact European - moreso than any Carnival, RCL, or NCL Caribbean cruise we have taken. Most were Italian.

 

The Italians from Italy were, by our standards, very pushy. They did not seem to have the same cultural expectations. There was a lot of cutting in line, etc.. At one point, an Italian-American woman from NYC got very angry at some Italians for their behavior and launched something of a tirade at them, yelling, "You are shaming Italy! You do not behave like that in this hemisphere!" Looking back, it was rather comical, but at the time it was a little nerve-wracking.

 

A dear friend of mine who is of Italian descent and who lived a number of her adult years in Italy laughed when I told her of our experience, and she concurred that culturally, they are not a people with a lot of patience in a crowd and that it probably comes off as arrogance to those who are not accustomed to that way of conducting oneself. She's as good-hearted as they come - it's just a cultural difference and really not an indication of anything more.

 

I say all of this to say that it's really impossible to know if the whole 'fly-by' business in 'comfortable and familiar waters' was entirely common there, and if it had anything to do with a culture that - by my observation, which again, is really just anecdotal - is more likely to 'go for the gusto'. My guess is that the fault lies squarely at the feet of a careless captain who could've been from anywhere on the globe.

 

Regardless of the cause, it's a tragedy on many, many levels. My prayers are with the families of those unaccounted for, and those who will have haunting - and terrifying - dreams of the incident for years to come. I can't imagine what it would've been like to try to work my way down a dark hallway down on a lower floor, trying to navigate around room service carts and broken dishes, crawling on what was actually 'wall' since the ship was on its side.

 

I also have to wonder about the couple that was rescued the next day, when the ship was fully on its side. Was the door 'up' above their heads so that they could not reach it? Or underneath their feet? I just cannot imagine it.

 

And I guess that's all off topic... I just can't quit remembering the beauty of the Costa ship we were on, and thinking it's just such a sad thing that such a tragedy was entirely avoidable. :(

[Starrgazer50]

The video sadly shows that COSTA CONCORDIA has, in the past, come very close inshore near Giglio for 'sightseeing' purposes. The courses recorded on the AIS seem to indicate that is exactly what has happened this time. There could be no other reason for altering course to come inshore as they did.

 

That's the same thing I read on the CC news:

Reports suggest the captain may have been "showboating" for residents and tourists on the island by veering close to land. Giglio's news outlet says a similar maneuver in August 2011 earned Schettino a letter of thanks from the island's mayor.

 

So far this has caused the death of 5 people. (Tisk, tisk):(

[bomber]

Interesting to read how many people have taken exception to OP's suggestion that "showing off" may have been involved and accused him of racism yet at least one newspaper (The Age in Melbourne) has the exact same headline theage.com.au. Also I fail to see how not adopting the largely American practice of tipping somehow makes a race inferior. I think emerging facts are supporting Barry's observations.

[Goya_Essence]

Much better than insinuating that someome was showing off!

 

I love the cappuccino in Maple! Via 905!!!

[Aussie Gal]

Interesting to read how many people have taken exception to OP's suggestion that "showing off" may have been involved and accused him of racism yet at least one newspaper (The Age in Melbourne) has the exact same headline theage.com.au. Also I fail to see how not adopting the largely American practice of tipping somehow makes a race inferior. I think emerging facts are supporting Barry's observations.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with what you say above. The poster who mentioned our tipping practice here in Oz also said that we were ignorant! I am not sure how not tipping here at home makes a person ignorant. When we travel overseas, we always follow the customs of those countries we visit and of course when we are in the U.S., we do tip the required 18%-20% because of the terrible low wages that are paid to those in the Service Industries. Here we don't need to tip as everyone gets a fair wage.

 

Jennie

[bazzaw]

"Showing off" or "showboating" (is that an Americanism? don't think I have heard that before) or "fly-bys" . I guess they all mean much the same thing.

 

People ARE very quick these days to call "Racism". A lot of political correctness is around in all countries.

 

Of course, generalisations about any Nationality are never completely true - but there is always an element of truth in them, otherwise they wouldn't exist at all. I am sure we can all think of certain generalities or traits commonly attributed to different nationalities. We here in Australia are often regarded as uncouth sons and daughters of convicts - that is of course not completely true, but there is some truth in it. The difference these days is that it is not compulsory to be a convict to come and live in this country. The ones who are genuinely descended from convicts now regard themselves as the creme de le Creme of Australian society :rolleyes: We have HEAPS of Italian people living here - who mostly came out after the WW2. You should hear what they call themselves!! I could never call them that and get away with it!! Starts with W :)

 

Barry

[Aus Traveller]

I have seen the video (as others would have) where the same ship sailed very close to the island on a previous occasion and sounded its horn a few times. The people on the island close to the camera were calling out.

 

Whether the Captain was 'showing off' or saying "hello" or "Happy New Year" doesn't matter too much. It is pretty clear that he had took a massive risk in being so close to the island when he had no need to be in that position. It is likely that this manoeuvre caused the tragedy.

 

By the way, I am bemused by the comments that the OP posts was "racist". Usually the term "racist" is only applicable if someone from one race is demeaning someone from another race. In this case the people (the Captain and the OP) are both Caucausion so I cannot see that it is racist.

[Walney]

Good on you Barry for not calling a spade a shovel.

 

Any shipmaster that allows his vessel to get within a few hundred metres of any coast on a voyage, when not in pilotage waters, should be sacked. If Costa Concordia passed between those islets south of the Giglio port as the AIS shows - what were they thinking - its only about 50 metres wide.

To endanger the lives of over 4000 souls & a 114,000 grt vessel is ------ I am speachless.

What happened to good seamanship, expert navigation & bridge management. Costa's management needs looking at & if they knew about the previous close passes - they should also be in the dock.

If this culture is commonplace with Costa & others - then thats another reason I will never sail with them.

Carnival Corp should investigate Costa - its management & senior officers.

 

John

Master mariner - 45 years in the Merchant Marine & 15 in command.

 

Take a look on Marine Traffic AIS for tonight, the Norwegian Pearls track is surely not in a shipping lane off the Florida Keys, more like a fuel shortcut. I may be wrong, but why do it??? Take a look at my post, distance from shore.

[Because123]

 

By the way, I am bemused by the comments that the OP posts was "racist". Usually the term "racist" is only applicable if someone from one race is demeaning someone from another race. In this case the people (the Captain and the OP) are both Caucausion so I cannot see that it is racist.

 

I agree.

 

Perhaps prejudiced would have been a better term for them to have used, but even so, it wasn't necessarily a prejudiced statement.

 

Someone suggested that the OP might have simply meant that an Italian captain at 'home' in those waters might've felt a bit too 'comfortable' as he sailed close to the shore and blew the horn at the Italian village.... in the same vein that you could envision an American doing as he passed a little coastal American town. Sometimes familiarity breeds carelessness.

[bazzaw]

Take a look on Marine Traffic AIS for tonight, the Norwegian Pearls track is surely not in a shipping lane off the Florida Keys, more like a fuel shortcut. I may be wrong, but why do it??? Take a look at my post, distance from shore.

 

Walney

 

Just had a look at Norwegian Pearl's AIS track. My reading of it is that, although it looks like they have cut the corner - the time difference between the two reports is 22.09 to 03.05. So I don't believe she has cut the corner - it is just that the track shown is not accurate.

 

Barry

[We-R-Off]

According to a news item yesterday on Sky News - a previous crew member's wife lived on the island and the Captain's would draw up close to say "Hi".

 

On the fateful sailing another crew member also had a relative there and it was decided to sail up closeby to greet their friend.

 

According to Sky News, when the Captain discovered he had come too close, he tried to correct himself hitting the rock and causing the ship to begin to list.

I am only writing what I heard on Sky News.

[AntiMatter]

Seems like that was the case and would explain why the ship deviated from course..

 

A risky practice by cruise ships of close-passing the island of Giglio in a foghorn-blasting salute to the local population appears to have contributed to the Costa Concordia disaster, officials and witnesses said Sunday.

..

 

Some witnesses said the ship was indulging the local population with a spectacular parade past the island in what is known locally as an "inchino" or reverent bow, with its upper decks ablaze with light as many of the passengers sat down to dinner.

 

Adding weight to the theory, the daily La Stampa on Sunday published a letter dated last August in which Giglio's mayor Sergio Ortelli thanked the Concordia's captain for the "incredible spectacle" of a previous close pass..

 

http://news.yahoo.com/costa-showboating-may-caused-italy-disaster-193239462.html

 

http://www.seanews.com.tr/article/ACCIDENTS/74284/Costa-Concordia-accident-navigational-error/

[Mjflowers]

My guess is the poster who made the comment has probably never been to Australia to see how things work there.

 

Have been to Australia. Ten years ago. Seems things have changed over the years. People were waymore pleasant than a lot of the posters I read now days. Even still have friends in NSW. Don' assume on what you don't know. Enlighten me, how do things work ther now?

[Cococabana]

Hi Barry - looks like your suggestion is proving correct - how truly awful that this should happen. You hope that the people in charge of these floating cities are responsible and capable. Remember 'Captain Calamity' from the cruise we were both on previously?

[mavis2222]

But they do! It is sometimes called 'scenic cruising'. Nothing wrong with taking a vessel inshore for such purpose providing the excursion is planned in accordance with all good navigation practice.

 

In the video the ship is probably about a half mile off the coast. Off Giglio... perfectly safe... plenty of deep water but your courses, position and spped must me monitored every inch of the way. The horn blowing is definitely for fun in this video. The correct signal to alert a small boat or other vessels is a series of five or more short and rapid blasts.

 

In a Reuters report just out they just out states that the captain was bringing his ship inshore in a 'clumsy' manner.

 

I fear this is the real cause of this accident.

 

Scenic cruising?? At NIGHT?? Nothing to see at night..Plus most people are at the shows and at dinner, etc. That is something that shoud be done during daytime when you can see what your looking at..

[kazu]

The company has placed full blame on the captain. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/01/16/cruise-ship-monday.html?cmp=rss

[cdamion]

Have been to Australia. Ten years ago. Seems things have changed over the years. People were waymore pleasant than a lot of the posters I read now days. Even still have friends in NSW. Don' assume on what you don't know. Enlighten me, how do things work ther now?

 

Im done arguing with people who write asinine things here on CC. You wrote an obnoxious post about Aussies not tipping. I assumed that if you had been there, you would know they don't tip there because everybody is paid for what they do so they don't have to rely on tips unlike much of the restaurant and bar industry here.

 

I made the assumption that you hadn't been because it would not be the first time that an armchair "expert" posted something they really don't know about on CC. You have been though, so I stand corrected.

[goose30]

Im done arguing with people who write asinine things here on CC. You wrote an obnoxious post about Aussies not tipping. I assumed that if you had been there, you would know they don't tip there because everybody is paid for what they do so they don't have to rely on tips unlike much of the restaurant and bar industry here.

 

I made the assumption that you hadn't been because it would not be the first time that an armchair "expert" posted something they really don't know about on CC. You have been though, so I stand corrected.

 

Well since everyone seems to be hijacking this thread let me do it also.

 

Basic difference between tipping and non tipping society.

 

Non- tipping: you get a good wage regardless of your performance.

 

Tipping: good wage is directly proportional to performance. You perform well you get a good wage. You don't perform well you get out of the kitchen.

 

Stop all of this good wage bad wage baloney.

[Andipanda1]

nevermind

[Andipanda1]

"Showing off" or "showboating" (is that an Americanism? don't think I have heard that before) or "fly-bys" . I guess they all mean much the same thing.

 

People ARE very quick these days to call "Racism". A lot of political correctness is around in all countries.

 

Of course, generalisations about any Nationality are never completely true - but there is always an element of truth in them, otherwise they wouldn't exist at all. I am sure we can all think of certain generalities or traits commonly attributed to different nationalities. We here in Australia are often regarded as uncouth sons and daughters of convicts - that is of course not completely true, but there is some truth in it. The difference these days is that it is not compulsory to be a convict to come and live in this country. The ones who are genuinely descended from convicts now regard themselves as the creme de le Creme of Australian society :rolleyes: We have HEAPS of Italian people living here - who mostly came out after the WW2. You should hear what they call themselves!! I could never call them that and get away with it!! Starts with W :)

 

Barry

 

It's called xenophobia, dear. And thank you for the lecture on ethnic stereotypes, and reference to a racial slur. You are absolutely brilliant. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[We-R-Off]

Now a state of emergency has been declared in the area and the diving teams are having difficulty looking for the missing people, with

hope of finding further survivors dimming.

 

It is confirmed that the Head Waiter was from the island, hence the sail by "Hi".

 

What an expensive waste of life, endangering travellers.

According to news items Captains can change route for purposes of safety of passengers, but this one seems to have varied for very much the wrong reasons.

[USNUZULOOSE]

This captain should have never taken the ship off course. I cant believe he would put everyone in harms way. I know they found the one black box and it had a lag of an hour. But am I wrong? or do the black boxes record all conversations? If they do, they would certainly be able to hear the conversation of a order to go off course.

[Aplmac]

This chart just extracted from the BBC's website

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16576979

 

 

 

The yellow line shows Costa's approved route

the orange line shows where Costa Concordia travelled.

 

Draw your own conclusions...

.