is this what ship captains are like?

[MSH from Norway]

I have also been wondering where the rest of the officers were who should have been on the bridge.

---------------

 

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10075802

 

At least several officers including second? in command Dimitry was anbord the same lifeboat as the captain.

 

The Italian Cost-Gard has now given all main european newspapers the true log of what was said between the captain and the rescures.

 

Latest news is more chocking. When the captain was safe in the lifeboat he called Costa Line which could tell him there were several hundreds still abord. So the captain was almost first man abord! The same little girl refused to re-enter his own ship!

 

The girl of a captain has also said that the reason he was first in "water" is because he felled of the ship! How is that possible?

[soldham]

I find it somewhat sad that Costa as an organization is being painted in this light - an organization with a long and proud history.

 

First - let's wait until rumour and shock journalism abate and we get real and accurate testimony.

 

I am certainly not saying the captain is without fault by any means but I do not agree with lynchings without due process........

[Himself]

HAL captians are one classy group of people. They work their way up for years. HAL does have Captains who have come over from other lines but they were well trained on those lines. I think the Captain on the Costa ship that went down would not have made Captain or either first or second officer on HAL. Don't judge the HAL Captains by that man because the Masters of the HAL Vessels are all well trained and classy people.

[SwissMyst]

.......

 

[Has anyone else read he was actually trying to flag a taxi when he made his way ashore? I just read that on the net and am still shaking my head.]

 

[/b]

 

I read this incident in a new story where the taxi driver was allegedly quoted saying the (captain) asked to be taken as far away from this scene as possible.

 

Embellishment or fact? Hard to know nor does it matter because his first "crimes" are well documented in his conversation with the Port Authority who claimed once the (captain) abandons ship, the PA is in total charge. And he needed to get his b*** back on his ship ASAP!

[SwissMyst]

When the CD has informal "Chats" with ship's personnel on the daily schedule, one should really put these activities on the top of their list. Learning about all aspects of the back of the house is both fascinating and reassuring ... on HAL ships.

 

On our last Maasdam TA, the captain always had breakfast with his wife out on the Lido back deck and made himself 100% accessible. I first thought does this man not even get privacy for breakfast, and then I though what a way to let passengers know he (and his lovely, open, gracious, classy wife) were there for us first, last and always.

[SwissMyst]

Costa has always been known for cheap cruises as long as I have known about it. That alone gives pause.

 

One also wonders when one has the "bus driver" run up and down the coast in 7 days, do those captains start cutting corners more than would be expected when itineraries are more novel really demanding full attentions.

 

Not clear if it was the same captain who pulled the same "fly by" stunt earlier giving a thrill to the residents and tourist on the little island or not. Done once safely, lured him into thinking he could do it again?

[SwissMyst]

Our next HAL cruise will "chase" the solar eclipse in November somewhere across the Coral Sea off Australia. While the path of the eclipse is known I know in the past ships have moved around to find the most cloudless skies to be in the best position for the few minutes of the actual eclipse.

 

This would not be a charted course, so it will be interesting to see how much flexibility the captain will have or exercise going "off-course" to get the best viewing opportunity.

 

Or if they do this at all since there will be many other ships also be crowding the same waters for the same event. I believe Princess also will be out there. And probably dozens of private vessels too.

 

We saw a solar eclipse on a private agency tour in one of the most remote places in China near the Mongolian border, all by ourselves. We heard later the "official" eclipse viewing spot in China where their was the strongest likelihood of clear skies had 30,000 people gathering all with blaring loud speakers.

 

The best viewing of the even this year will be on open water. Should be interesting to see how it goes out there.

[Typhoon1]

This guy was an abomination. How he ever made Captain is inexcusable.

 

Just like an airline Captain, you have to be able to deal with any situation. I've referred to the Miracle on the Hudson in another post as an example.

[tcook052]

in the aftermath of the concordia disaster

 

More Concordia threads? Sorry but aren't these topics being throroughly debated elsewhere on CC?

[bjbear]

HAL captians are one classy group of people. They work their way up for years. HAL does have Captains who have come over from other lines but they were well trained on those lines. I think the Captain on the Costa ship that went down would not have made Captain or either first or second officer on HAL. Don't judge the HAL Captains by that man because the Masters of the HAL Vessels are all well trained and classy people.

 

I couldn't agree more! That's one reason I sail Hal (and occasionally) Celebrity. ;) You couldn't pay me to take a Costa cruise - and please don't flame me, I just prefer the outstanding officers, service, and smaller ships of HAL. :D

 

Sue

[SeaDog-46]

No doubt most master mariners are as astounded as I - with the way the Costa Concordia was navigated on 13th.

How can a person in charge of a 100,000+ grt cruise ship even contemplate going so close to a rocky shore.

It indicates to me that the owners have a serious problem with the culture of there navigating officers.

How are they trained & promoted if a master can do this - what of the rest of them.

 

Now retired - I was at sea for around 45 years from 1964.

I did 4 years basic training with a cargo liner UK company & then obtained my first certificate. In 1976 I obtained my masters cert. & in 1982 my 1st command & continued for the next 15 years on ships from 3,000grt to 156,000grt.

I was never on a passenger ship with more than 60 passengers, but the qualifications required are the same.

HAL, P&O & Cunard would never allow a master like this one to be in command of their ships - so why Costa - obviously there standards are lower.

 

The loss of Costa Concordia should NEVER have happened.

It does NOT seem to be an accident - it is just stupid behavour & does not say much for the other senior navigating officers onboard.

 

Good Captains are first & foremost excellent seaman, navigators,

ship handlers & communicators. Being a social captain with the passengers does NOT make them a good captain.

 

Given the delay in abandoning Costa Concordia it is astounding that so many got off safely. So some at least of the officers must have directed operations - but with only 6 or 7 officers & maybe 20 odd seaman to get off the about 40 lifeboats there would be some confusion.

Lifeboats need some preparation before lowering & can be lowered from inside the boat. They also require gravity to go down. To say they cannot be lowered with a list is wrong. Its only when the list gets too great that gravity will not work.

[Davidson Duo]

I read about the taxi, also, but I don't know if that is confirmed yet.

 

I'm wondering if the authorities gave the captain and first officer a drug/alcohol test when they arrested them?

 

Are there rules about the amount of alcohol the captain and other officers who are in charge of the bridge at different times of day can consume before they are on duty?

 

I do know there are strict guidelines for crew as to alcohol levels - one for while on duty, and another for off duty. And they are regularly tested for them. This past March while we were enjoying our 30 days on the Rotterdam in the South Pacific, our dining room steward informed us that 2 crew members were escorted off the ship and sent home at the first port after failing their testing for alcohol the night before. It surprised us that there was a zero tolerance for any overages aboard and that their consequences were so quick and blunt.

 

We were actually quite pleased to know that the Captain stuck to the "rules of play". It was quite obvious from the later comments we heard from various staff members that they respected their Captain for his determination to run a clean ship and set clear expectations for the staff.

 

They all voiced their agreement with the punishment and we felt a sense of pride from them that their actions and conduct were set to a very high level.

 

I expect the Officers have the same level of accountability for their substance levels on board. We certainly feel that the HAL crew appear to place their standards of conduct to a very high level and exude a sense of pride in their professionalism in all aspects of service on board. This is the number one reason we choose to cruise with HAL. Their actions make us feel safe and well cared for while on their ships.

[DAllenTCY]

I'll just throw this in, not that it has anything to do with how things are currently done.

My father went to work after graduating from the University of California (Berkley) and the Maritime Academy in San Francisco. He sailed as an officer for the Matson line from 1939 until the WWII in 1941. At that time Matson ships were enlisted, as was he, into the Merchant Marine program. He sailed on several ships during the war for 3 years, yet was never qualified to be considered a Captain. Luckily for me (and my mom) he took a shore side position in Air-sea in 1945.

David

[sail7seas]

No doubt most master mariners are as astounded as I - with the way the Costa Concordia was navigated on 13th.

How can a person in charge of a 100,000+ grt cruise ship even contemplate going so close to a rocky shore.

It indicates to me that the owners have a serious problem with the culture of there navigating officers.

How are they trained & promoted if a master can do this - what of the rest of them.

 

Now retired - I was at sea for around 45 years from 1964.

I did 4 years basic training with a cargo liner UK company & then obtained my first certificate. In 1976 I obtained my masters cert. & in 1982 my 1st command & continued for the next 15 years on ships from 3,000grt to 156,000grt.

I was never on a passenger ship with more than 60 passengers, but the qualifications required are the same.

HAL, P&O & Cunard would never allow a master like this one to be in command of their ships - so why Costa - obviously there standards are lower.

 

The loss of Costa Concordia should NEVER have happened.

It does NOT seem to be an accident - it is just stupid behavour & does not say much for the other senior navigating officers onboard.

 

Good Captains are first & foremost excellent seaman, navigators,

ship handlers & communicators. Being a social captain with the passengers does NOT make them a good captain.

 

Given the delay in abandoning Costa Concordia it is astounding that so many got off safely. So some at least of the officers must have directed operations - but with only 6 or 7 officers & maybe 20 odd seaman to get off the about 40 lifeboats there would be some confusion.

Lifeboats need some preparation before lowering & can be lowered from inside the boat. They also require gravity to go down. To say they cannot be lowered with a list is wrong. Its only when the list gets too great that gravity will not work.

 

 

Thank you for this post. It was generous of you to set out these enlightening comments.

 

My DH and I have been as shocked as everyone else. I have speculated if in addition to some unknown number of officers who may have been effective in getting guests and crew off the ship, if there might have been guests who have general emergency response training who were able to calm some and stepped into their natural leadership role in an emergency despite they (and theirs) were vacationing.

 

First responders, in their 'real life', would automatically kick into gear in such a situation, I suspect.

 

[Arwen]

The captains and officers I have had the pleasure of meeting and having proper discussions with on HAL ships (including Peter Harris and Mark Rowden) are people who have a great sense of pride in what they do and a great passion for working on the seas. I have the utmost confidence in them.

 

That being said, I wish all companies would go back to having people wear their lifejackets for boat drill. It always surprises me how many people cannot follow the relatively simple instructions for putting them on. In my opinion, there is no such thing as too much practice.

 

It has been reported by the British and Italian news media, that several of the dead were found with their life jackets on and right near their muster stations.

 

This horrible tragedy appears, for the time, to be the negligence of the Captain. Many of the crew and passengers had to improvise on the spot (as the situation was in a constant flux) as to what to do since the chain of command was non-existent. It is a miracle that so many made it off the ship.

 

The Italian Coast Guard has verified that there was no May Day or SOS received from the Concordia. Instead some Italian passengers used their cell phones to call the Italian police and report their crisis.

 

There is no drill that could have prepared the Concordia pax for this shipwreck anomaly. It is always good to think ahead, use common sense, assess your own situation, think outside the box, etc. as it could save your life or others.

[sail7seas]

If crew (sailors ?) assigned to loading and lowering life boats never received a direct order to lower them, who/how did they finally act on their own? I don't know maritime rules but it would seem lifeboats of all things would require direct order through chain of command?

 

[SeaDog-46]

Joanie has posted a translation from an Italian newspaper on the HAL thread dealing with grounding.

It makes appalling reading.

[SwissMyst]

Joanie has posted a translation from an Italian newspaper on the HAL thread dealing with grounding.

It makes appalling reading.

 

 

This is found on the main Concordia thread - yes, chilling to consider passengers and ship (because a captain should be wedded to his ship as a precious chunk of metal carrying his passengers, as much as the passengers themselves) were possibly caught up in a single man's malignant ego trip?

 

Chilling even more so because it seems plausible. Having lived in Italy, Italian drivers thrived on senseless risks. Constantly. Is this reckless bravadura mentality also embedded in unfortunately a few Italian sea captains as well?

[Taxguy77]

When was the last time you tried on a lifejacket on an Airplane?

 

The last time I SAW a lifejacket on an airplane, same as you.

[kazu]

If crew (sailors ?) assigned to loading and lowering life boats never received a direct order to lower them, who/how did they finally act on their own? I don't know maritime rules but it would seem lifeboats of all things would require direct order through chain of command?

 

 

Sail the crew on the Costa ship mutinied and started lowering the life boats despite the captain's orders. thank heavens they did

[Taxguy77]

Our next HAL cruise will "chase" the solar eclipse in November somewhere across the Coral Sea off Australia. While the path of the eclipse is known I know in the past ships have moved around to find the most cloudless skies to be in the best position for the few minutes of the actual eclipse.

This would not be a charted course, so it will be interesting to see how much flexibility the captain will have or exercise going "off-course" to get the best viewing opportunity. Or if they do this at all since there will be many other ships also be crowding the same waters for the same event. I believe Princess also will be out there. And probably dozens of private vessels too.

 

We saw a solar eclipse on a private agency tour in one of the most remote places in China near the Mongolian border, all by ourselves. We heard later the "official" eclipse viewing spot in China where their was the strongest likelihood of clear skies had 30,000 people gathering all with blaring loud speakers.

 

The best viewing of the even this year will be on open water. Should be interesting to see how it goes out there.

 

The Capt. has great authority, and will have a great deal of flexability in positioning his ship. I would imagine all bridge officers will be on the bridge for the show, and will be monitoring other ships positions closely.

Sounds like a great cruise!

[Randyk47]

In just a few weeks we'll be in the Med on a cruise on Silversea not Costa but with an Italian captain. Am I worried? No, not really. While the Concordia disaster is horrible it's certainly not the norm. It is a reminder that bad things happen. Will we more observant when we board the Silver Wind? I'd think so but not because we're frightened but because we've been reminded, maybe even jarred out of some complacency, that we're not on land but on a ship at sea and that means some inherent danger. Interestingly we'll be passing the Concordia wreck site as we sail south from Livorno to Civitavechia. I don't expect we'll be close to the wreck or even be able to see it since we're docking by 8 AM but it'll probably be in the back of our minds.

[m steve]

should be limited to the boat deck in case the elevators fail in an evacuation.

[sail7seas]

should be limited to the boat deck in case the elevators fail in an evacuation.

 

 

Limited to only booking cabins on boat deck? There are no verandas on Promenade Decks (except for Lanais) so they should not be able to book a veranda?

 

 

All guests certainly make us of the whole ship and why wouldn't a wheelchair bound person? No one can predict when an emergency would occur so the wheelchair bound person shouldn't go to the pools or Lido or Crows Nest or the salon/spa etc?

[Randyk47]

should be limited to the boat deck in case the elevators fail in an evacuation.

 

Probably not but it is a dilemma. One of the thoughts that's crossed my mind is what would we do in the same situation. While we fully support boat drills and always go to them the Concordia sinking is a reminder that things don't always go according to plan. You may not be able to get back to your cabin for your vest, you may not be able to get to one of the deck lockers with the extra vests, you may not be able to launch the lifeboats, and so on. Anticipating every potential is difficult and practicing or drilling for every scenario is probably impossible for passengers. The expectation is that the crew has at least there to do the best they can but even they can't practice every possibility. I remember after 9/11 the investigators asking about how we evacuated the Pentagon. One of the questions was "why didn't you go to your practiced evacuation point?". Kind of a "duh" moment when the answer was that the plane had hit our evacuation point.