Who saw Dispatches on C4 tonight?

[mommabean]

Having hot running water and air-conditioning is far more than many (probably most) have at home. Not to mention the opportunity. Many prefer to be on the ship rather than home and look forward to their return "home" on the ship. I know one person very well who keeps his vacations as short as possible and extends his contracts when possible. He LIKES his job. He said his wife is resented by some at home since she doesn't have to work and others consider him a world traveler.

 

By the way, he recently told me (verified by a woman from his country) that a manicure AND pedicure is $1 total where he lives.

 

Recruiters get paid for their services and many wouldn't find this opportunity without them. Crew has to pay for their return to the ship because in the past, when they didn't, some would use that free ticket to get to another country and skip out on their contract.

 

We consider a good tip an act of kindness (to those deserving of it, which is the vast majority) without the administrative costs of various charities.

 

A lot of those who have worked on board for a while and given up the party life of the young, which sucks down their money in the early years, have iPhones and iPads, too. And they still have money to send home.

 

For those who are especially motivated, they can move up the ranks into management. Others start businesses at home with their hospitality training and savings they would never have if they stayed home.

 

Gina

[mommabean]

dont quite get what your saying, ive seen staff many times coming off the boat when docked, wearing top of the range clothes labels, exspensive cameras round their necks, smart phones, ipads.........................

not saying they get top wages, anything but.... the ones i speak to seem happy to be in employment thats better off than they get at home...

 

i for one, certainly wont be going on my cruise feeling sorry for anyone

 

i'll be on my cruise next week with my cheap supermarket clothes on, cant afford top labels, once ive saved up all year for a cruise, aint much pennies left....! thats my choice

 

And you certainly shouldn't. They don't want your pity. They want your money and they are smart enough to figure out how to get these jobs and make money. RCI does a good job of hiring the best of the best. And it shows.

 

Gina

[vicocala]

It seems Channel four should investigate these recruiters who are duping people with false promises.

 

I have talked with cruise workers who were very happy with their jobs, getting to see the world, meeting people from other places, etc.

 

The biggest gripe I have heard is that they are required to pay for airfare to and from their ships when the contracts are up.

[Able Seaman H]

If you break down the fees paid by staff you soon see how they mount up.

 

Travel and air fare. An open ended ticket from a destination probably not served by the cut price airlines. Then an onward flight to wherever the ship is sailing from. Easy when it's Miami but harder for somewhere like San Juan. You try booking a flight from Delhi to San Juan. I just had a quick look and came up with a 2 stop fare for over $2,000.

 

Then there is a bit of accommodation waiting for the ship to arrive - you don't want to miss your first week on the job.

 

A medical valid for 2 years, standard charge around $150 plus additional costs for drug testing and X-rays.

 

Police check, visa arrangemen, what have I missed so far? Oh, help with a CV, translation services and so it goes on. I'm not inclined to rush out and set up an employment agency just yet.

 

I'm not saying bad things don't go on in the world but this isn't forced prostitution. The cruise companies aren't buying in slaves from poorer countries. They are offering employment opportunities and providing a very high level of staff welfare.

 

Henry

[orville99]

http://www.worldsalaries.org/

 

If you look up typical cruiseline jobs by category and country, it's not difficult to understand why the staff see their pay differently than the pax do. In some cases the cruiseline pays 8-10X what they could earn doing the same job in their home country.

[mekongsailor]

Did not see the program, but did see the "trailer" and got the base story line.

 

Think about this - the life of sailors in the navies of any of our nations. They are away from home for extended periods - work at least 12 hours per day, seven days per week (two 4 hour watches, plus department work), they get little routine sleep on a regular schedule, they do many tasks (their basic assigned work, watch bill duties, and special duties - general quarters, replenishment at sea, work parties in port (outreach programs to foreign countries), mess deck duty (cleaning, etc), and must be on call for anything else where a human body is needed.

 

They are not highly paid - and they receive NO tips.

 

Life at sea is not easy. It is a living, and people chose to do it, thankfully, for the protection our nations, and as crew on cruise ships so we can enjoy a vacation.

 

Been there, done that. And yes, I've always said that being at sea on a vessel that had a bar, was not gray in color, and at my own schedule was the way to go.

[Missus Makkem]

Saw the program and found it very interesting and as a big cruiser would query some of their findings but 2 things struck me that have not been mentioned.

1 the cabin attendants have been stopped from employing help, this we noticed on our last 2 cruises and the prog said there is a Court case going on about this, brought by 1000 staff , interesting.

2 now we know why there are so few wait staff and cabin attendants that are British, as they do not pay our min wage,which by the way went up 11pence yesterday{yipee]

[TBone2K]

<begin conspiracy mode>With the inconsistencies in the stories we have got from various room attendants and waiters over the years, I wonder if some of the stories about pay is part of the "inside tricks" the young staff learn from the more experienced staff as they go. I mean, some CC'ers have said the staff they have asked reported to only get paid in tips? If they can come up with a beliveable sob story about the lack of pay, they might get a better tip, right?<end conspiracy mode>

[m*u*g*]

They don't seem to have a problem getting enough staff to work all these ships. Sounds overblown to me.

[Missus Makkem]

They don't seem to have a problem getting enough staff to work all these ships. Sounds overblown to me.

 

Sorry but not all of the story was, did you watch it?

Mind I would agree the ex cabin attendant who said she had no free time as it took 30 mins to clean a bathroom was a bit strange but hey if she had all suites and a lot of families perhaps it might have happened.

The reporters seemed genuine but when it comes to editing that is a different story.

[teralin]

I have to agree, the programme was designed shock.

 

The room steward who said she takes up to 30 minutes to clean a bathroom is either stretching the truth or very slow. I also thought that her "smiley face on the outside and heart breaking on the inside" routine was a little over dramatic. As a passenger, I don't want to think that every employee I meet is wearing a mask to hide their pain and grief at working such terrible hours and awful working conditions. It would be like holidaying in the slough of despont - moans and groans and sighs from all around but never really knowing from which direction it's coming. I would have to take great care not to show that I am enjoying my holiday in case it causes offence.

 

In reality, most crew members that I have come into contact with have appeared to be very genuine and just try to get on with their work in the best possible way and most enjoy the odd conversation with passengers to help their day pass more easily. At least two waiters that I know have bought multiple properties in their home countries and good luck to them. They have obviously chosen to work hard, save their money and plan for their future as opposed to buying designer phones, clothes etc. Everything is down to choice.

[meinitaly1]

Did not see it. Please summarize.

It had an undercover waiter and an undercover passenger and they were asking the staff how much their wages were, how many tips they get included in their wages and how much time off they get off. Seemed to be UNDER half the average monthly wage in the U.K. It worked out about £1.70 an hour and they had so much work to do cleaning the cabin that some of them paid another member of staff to help them finish cleaning. I said to my husband after watching it that I felt really sorry for the staff and we should tip well, he said it's not our fault, it's the cruise lines, they should pay them more wages. I'll never forget our last cruise, our dining room waiter came on duty ttwo days before we finished the cruise and was nearly crying saying that his girlfriend in Indonesia had finished with him after four years and he hadn't got enough money to go back to see her to beg her to go baxk with him, he seemed so genuine but after we had all given him a VERY BIG tip from all the family (there were 18 of us), the last night he seemed to have forgotten all about his girlfriend and was chatting up all the young girls. I think he does this on every table every week!!!!!!

[lacey jane]

Didn't see this thread when I started another covering the same topic.

 

An interesting program on TV this evening "exposing" sister company Celebrity for supposed employment issues. Mainly how little staff were supposedly paid.

 

They also mentioned fees paid by staff to cover things like air fare to and from their home country to the ship (because every other employer in the world pays people to travel halfway around the world to come and work for them), medical costs (my ENG1 medical recently cost me around $150 and I arranged it myself directly with the doctor), and so on.

 

How very timely that Chief Organ grinder Michael Bayley has taken over the Celebrity forum to answer questions I haven't actually seen a response thus far but hey, at least it shut the down ;)

 

We all know the crack, minimal basic wage and a strong emphasis on tips, which the program seemed to glass over. Of 5 weeks employment (bearing in mind most contracts are for 9 months or so) there only seemed to be 2 weeks worth included in the wage tally. I also notice that whilst numbers were in US dollars they slipped in one amount in £ sterling to make it look smaller £1 UK = $1.6 Sneaky sods !!

 

The focus seemed to be on UK minimum wage and how this bloke with all of 5 weeks on the job failed to achieve that level of pay. I wonder what the average wage these days is in Manilla, Bangalore or a small village in Eastern Europe. A good deal lower than our undercover reporter earned. Throw in food & board, medical care and a safe working environment and all of a sudden you can see why cruise staff come back for multiple contracts. A few years hard graft and they can effectively retire back home. I've got to do 45 years !!

 

Tipping is often covered on this forum and it is good to see that there are very few who under tip, the vast majority over tip.

 

But that wouldn't make very good TV would it :)

 

Henry

 

i agree with what you say but we the passengers are not tipping, tips are considered extra and this was clearly not extra the "tips" were part of their wages

[vinniega64]

had quite a few cruises where the cabin attendants have barely spoke to us.... that is until the last few days.... tips must be due.... must think i button up the back.... lol

[littleguy]

So, the things that struck me having seen the programme.

 

1) What sort of an idiot starts a job, especially one taking you abroad, without seeing a contract?

 

2) Why compare the income with the uk? This would be like sending me to work in a sweat shop and complaining about the poor working conditions and pay compared to the uk.

 

3) Do people who go on cruises really have 'virtually zero' (or whatever the actual quote was) knowledge of pay and conditions? I find that incredibly hard to believe. What do people think when they go on a cruise and see staff from Indonesia?

 

4) For those wanting to watch the programme, it's on 4od. I'm not sure you can watch it if you're from outside of the uk. I'll see if I can find a torrent link. http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#3418440

[P&OMAN]

It is easily solved!!!!! - EVERYONE DO NOT PAY TIPS - SIMPLES!! That way the cruise companies have to top up the wages to the basic guaranteed level - Then they will have to put the basic cost of cruise up to cover the extra costs and this would not be an issue!! By paying tips (as a general rule) staff do not get any extra monies!! it just means that the cruise companies do not have to pay the guaranteed income - WE DO!!! Everyone stop paying and the problem will have to be tackled by the cruise companies. - Then in a couple of years we can tip extra when we see fit. It might sound harsh but has no one heard of the phrase - 'sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind'???

[sxphil]

Actually

 

Not stop tipping but tip in cash not Prepay

[nbsjcruiser]

Didn't see this thread when I started another covering the same topic.

 

An interesting program on TV this evening "exposing" sister company Celebrity for supposed employment issues. Mainly how little staff were supposedly paid.

 

They also mentioned fees paid by staff to cover things like air fare to and from their home country to the ship (because every other employer in the world pays people to travel halfway around the world to come and work for them), medical costs (my ENG1 medical recently cost me around $150 and I arranged it myself directly with the doctor), and so on.

 

How very timely that Chief Organ grinder Michael Bayley has taken over the Celebrity forum to answer questions I haven't actually seen a response thus far but hey, at least it shut the down ;)

 

We all know the crack, minimal basic wage and a strong emphasis on tips, which the program seemed to glass over. Of 5 weeks employment (bearing in mind most contracts are for 9 months or so) there only seemed to be 2 weeks worth included in the wage tally. I also notice that whilst numbers were in US dollars they slipped in one amount in £ sterling to make it look smaller £1 UK = $1.6 Sneaky sods !!

 

The focus seemed to be on UK minimum wage and how this bloke with all of 5 weeks on the job failed to achieve that level of pay. I wonder what the average wage these days is in Manilla, Bangalore or a small village in Eastern Europe. A good deal lower than our undercover reporter earned. Throw in food & board, medical care and a safe working environment and all of a sudden you can see why cruise staff come back for multiple contracts. A few years hard graft and they can effectively retire back home. I've got to do 45 years !!

 

Tipping is often covered on this forum and it is good to see that there are very few who under tip, the vast majority over tip.

 

But that wouldn't make very good TV would it :)

 

Henry

 

Retirement where you live and retirement where they live are two different stories. I would be willing to bet a significant amount of money that given the choice between working the cruise ship like they do and "retiring" in a community like theirs or working in England (I assume England from the language of your post) and retiring to a country with a high standard of living with free medical care - you'd take England. Their life is anything but glamorous where they get to retire after a few contracts.

[misty57]

I always pre pay gratuities for my own convenience. Has anyone asked staff if they know this or do they receive the amount we pay for each person? If they don't I would pay in cash. If they do I would add some cash to the envelope.

 

I know there are poorer conditions around the world. Cruise lines provide work for some that may not have the ability to make a good living at home. It could be better pay I'm sure. If everyone gave the tips suggested then hopefully they would come out ok.

 

There are always going to be those that make insanely more than those that work"under" them. My CEO is rumored to make over 7 figures and got a $800,000 bonus. We have to come up with $20,000,000 cost savings and achieve 90% approval ratings to get a $400 bonus. Then it has to be voted on by a board of directors. The VP's make at least as much as the CEO's bonus.

But, we had a $2 an hour additional responsibility differential taken away from us because no one else in the industry paid that..:mad:

 

I am not resentful of their salaries, but a little that they pinch those pennies when it comes to those who do the work. I can not do their job nor would I want to. They also do not want my job which is why they have theirs!

 

My "clients" should not feel guilty that I make so much less than those who hired me. Neither should I feel guilty that these staff work so hard for what their employers pay them if I treat them with respect and pay my tips. I believe what they earn would be a living wage if earned in their home country.

[Debde]

Makes me think handing cash to staff is better for them

 

I have been saying this on every tip thread for years now. I want to know exactly, who and how much tip folks are recieving and that's why I bring a tone of cahs and will never do MTD for that simple fact.

Alwyas tip the WJ staff as we dine there often!!

 

This just makes it all more clear that the ease of pre-tipping and those who often say, not my problem where it goes, may think twice!!!

 

We all need to remember this thread when another tipping thread rises it's ugly head and how many will now claim to pre-tip!!!

[vinniega64]

basically, at the travel agents, when i pay my gratuties before i cruise, i am actually paying the staff their wages.... not their tips like i thought....

saving the cruise company money.... they only top up their wages

 

unbeleivable if true

[Debde]

basically, at the travel agents, when i pay my gratuties before i cruise, i am actually paying the staff their wages.... not their tips like i thought....

saving the cruise company money.... they only top up their wages

 

unbeleivable if true

 

I'd believe this and hope people re-think tipping. Cash has always been King in any business. I feel better that I am in control of the tip I give and not the cruise line.

[Heidils]

I'd believe this and hope people re-think tipping. Cash has always been King in any business. I feel better that I am in control of the tip I give and not the cruise line.

 

On one hand...Pre pay tips...why not, I'm gonna give that much at least anyway.

 

Then on the other, WHY? I worked in the service industry for years. No, one ever sat down and said, "Here is your TIP for the day," Now give me good service.

 

Why are we discussing what people make....

 

Lets start a thread..."I'm a________ and I make this much." This is all my personal information.

 

What do you think about that?

 

Meant to say, I agree with you....

[NorbertsNiece]

On one hand...Pre pay tips...why not, I'm gonna give that much at least anyway.

 

Then on the other, WHY? I worked in the service industry for years. No, one ever sat down and said, "Here is your TIP for the day," Now give me good service.

 

Why are we discussing what people make....

 

Lets start a thread..."I'm a________ and I make this much." This is all my personal information.

 

What do you think about that?

 

Meant to say, I agree with you....

 

You start...........

[Heidils]

You start...........

 

My point!

 

Nope.

 

I also think the, "Give a damn," meter might be busted on this one.

 

The good news is those that are really on board with helping those that they feel are underpaid, can reach deep and pay accordingly.