Holland America Lines Disasterdam

[mamaofami]

I am really so sorry this happened to you. I can't imagine being turned away at the port and how awful you must have felt. I guess this is another example of being your own advocate or taking care of yourself. I know now you will never travel again without a passport. If I were you, I would contact customer relations at HAL. It's hard to read the letter you attached. but I'm sure you have the name of the person who told you it would be OK. Tell customer relations your story and maybe they will be able to do something to make this right. And, get that passport ASAP.:)

[mariner]

My point being the documents used to get him/her back in this country should have been sufficent to establish his citizenship.

[ejammer]

Military brat that I was, it seemed everyone in the military got a passport issued. How you could serrve and not see any duty overseas seems a bit odd. Just saying.

No sir. Not "everyone". I was in the U.S. Navy Ceremonial (Presidential) Honor Guard in Washington, D.C. for the first half of my enlistment, then the B.O.O.S.T. (Broaden Opportunity for Officer Selection and Training) Program in San Diego, California, followed by my final duty station, NAVCOSSAC, a top secret data processing installation at the Washington Navy Yard, also in Washington, D.C. So far no passport has been necessary to serve in, or visit, any of those places. Jus sayin.

[mariner]

Not sure how you went from boot to an honor guard, but those were different times. Get a passport and fight the good fight for a refund. Good luck. Guessing your wife/husband/partner was without passport as well.

[Cruzin Terri]

Wait a minute. It dawns on me. You would have needed a passport to get from Germany to the US. No?

OP stated that he came to the US when he was 8 months old with his parents. Since he also stated that he is now 57 years old, I don't think having a passport at that time is even worth pursuing at this point.

 

OP realizes now that a passport would have made his life easier. How much longer are we going to beat a dead horse on that one?

 

He was denied boarding either incorrectly or correctly. We don't know that. Only he and those at the check know for sure. He has the documentation. He has written to a travel ombudsman to help him sort it out with HAL. I hope HAL does the right thing by him. He appears sincere and certainly he and his wife suffered a huge disappointment by not being able to board the Eurodam.

 

Terri

[ejammer]

Wait a minute. It dawns on me. You would have needed a passport to get from Germany to the US. No?

No. Got here on a U.S. Army Hospital ship. My mother says, since my father was in the Army, and they were married, their 8 month old baby didn't have to have a passport. My parent's passports were sufficient.

[ejammer]

Not sure how you went from boot to an honor guard, but those were different times. Get a passport and fight the good fight for a refund. Good luck. Guessing your wife/husband/partner was without passport as well.

Most Honor Guard members come directly from boot camp. They tend to be more trainable than old salts. Being a 6'2" Eagle Scout helps too. :) Thank you. Not looking for a refund though, or any extra's. We would just like to be able to take the cruise we already paid for. Nothing else.

[dag144]

Interesting thread. I had what I believe was a HAL caused problem about 10 years ago. HAL owned Windstar at the time. I missed a Barbados to Funchal cruise because my plane reservations (MADE FOR ME THROUGH AND BY HAL) did not allow enough time to get from San Francisco to Miami and thence to Barbados.

 

At first HAL would not take any responsibility. I asked to speak to the VP of marketing (through the customer service rep who was handling my complaint after many letters to the Pres., VP Legal and VP Marketing. I assured her that I realized he was a very busy exec and had very little time. I insisted that she contact this VP and get me a date and time to call him since "he was busier than me." Half and hour later he called me back. I referred to an article in a popular travel magazine outlining a similar problem. I was polite but firm. No threats. The next day my travel agent, who had tried to help but could get nowhere,received notification that we were booked on a similar cruise but in reverse, east to west, for the coming fall.

 

Happy ending and good for HAL. I sailed with Windstar for ten cruises while the line was owned by HAL, and will be going on the Eurodam on March 16th for our 27th HAL cruise.

 

Keep plugging POLITELY! Don't give up on cruising.:):)

[RuthC]

I am attaching copies of my original certified birth certificate here with my name, and the names of my parents, blocked out for privacy purposes. Also, attached is a copy of with translations in green for those who don't speak German. As you can see my father was a U.S. Army soldier, married to my German mother at the time of my birth at the U.S. Army hospital. Of course, I had both of these with me too, along with a folder full of other supporting documentation like my parents marriage and citizenship certificates, my U.S. Navy Honorable Discharge Certificate, DD214, Tennessee Drivers License, and Boy Scouts of America Eagle Scout Award (Try and get one of those without U.S. citizenship!).

Most of these don't establish citizenship. But iirc, the DD214 does have a field where citizenship is listed (been a long time since I examined one). If so, that should have been sufficient.

[Floridiana]

Now we will need INternational Drivers licence to drive in Florida ...

 

Check that again. I believe that this rule was cancelled. Canadian resistence! :D Use an official source!

[jtl513]

Check that again. I believe that this rule was cancelled. Canadian resistence! :D Use an official source!

It's not a rule, it's a law - and it hasn't been repealed or amended yet. However DMV has directed that it not be enforced in its present form.

[startwin]

OP stated that he came to the US when he was 8 months old with his parents. Since he also stated that he is now 57 years old, I don't think having a passport at that time is even worth pursuing at this point.

 

OP realizes now that a passport would have made his life easier. How much longer are we going to beat a dead horse on that one?

 

He was denied boarding either incorrectly or correctly. We don't know that. Only he and those at the check know for sure. He has the documentation. He has written to a travel ombudsman to help him sort it out with HAL. I hope HAL does the right thing by him. He appears sincere and certainly he and his wife suffered a huge disappointment by not being able to board the Eurodam.

 

Terri

 

The voice of reason;) HAL screwed up, he screwed up, he's learned an expensive and traumatic lesson - but I bet HAL will continue to give out misinformation or screw up at check-in from time to time and nothing will be learned on their part.

[IRL_Joanie]

I am attaching copies of my original certified birth certificate here with my name, and the names of my parents, blocked out for privacy purposes. Also, attached is a copy of with translations in green for those who don't speak German. As you can see my father was a U.S. Army soldier, married to my German mother at the time of my birth at the U.S. Army hospital. Of course, I had both of these with me too, along with a folder full of other supporting documentation like my parents marriage and citizenship certificates, my U.S. Navy Honorable Discharge Certificate, DD214, Tennessee Drivers License, and Boy Scouts of America Eagle Scout Award (Try and get one of those without U.S. citizenship!).

 

The birth records and certificate of Birth from Germany are not valid for use as anything other than proof of where you were born and to apply for a German Passport. You must have the first one to apply for US Citizenship and/or a Passport.

 

This is the same paperwork, with the Seal of the State in which we lived at the time of our daughters birth in Herbornseelbach, Hesse, FRG.

 

As I stated before, but apparently it was not noticed by you, THIS IS NOT PROOF OF US CITIZENSHIP!!!

 

All it is is a German Birth Certificate, which is valid to provide you proof of German Citizenship.

 

You have to do what my daughter/we had to do and APPLY for US Citizenship and officially revoke your German Citizenship and then apply for US Citizenship, via the US State Department and then you might consider a US Passport.

 

A couple of things that I feel should be mentioned:

 

1. Being acepted into the US Military does not assure you of US Citizenship. We have had many thousands of non US citizens that have served in our military such as the Philipines, Guam, Puerto Rico etc., yes they might be US territories now, but back during WWII, Korea and Vietnam they were not. And the folks from those countries served as US Military members.

 

2. A German Birth Certificate even with Translation, is not US Citizenship... I cannot stress this enough.

 

3. As you stated it was not the US Customs Officer and his supervisor that denied your boarding of the Eurodam. It was the Captain, and that is his right as the MAN when it comes to his ship.

 

4. I belief that you may have explained things to the HAL reps you spoke to, and have chat copies of those conversations, in a way that they more than likely did not understand that you were taking of a NON American Birth Certificate. They may have misunderstood you when you told them about the English translation of it.

 

Many times I say things in ways that I feel are perfectly understandable to a moron (NOT CALLING YOU THAT) and then a few minutes or days down the lie it turns out that what I was saying is NOT what the person or persons understood me to be saying. It is all in the inflection/tone and way we say things that makes things difficult.

 

I think this is what happened to you and I commiserate with you 100%, but do not feel that it was HAL's fault at all because of the German Birth Certificate.

 

If the German Birth Certificate is all that you have, then you are still a German Citizen because you do not have the American Birth Certificate. Until you renounce your German Birth Rights/Citizenship OFFICIALLY you are German and not an American Citizen until you have that proof in English.

 

Please understand that I am not trying to be argumentative or accuse you of being in the wrong.... FAR FROM IT!!! I am only trying to help you understand why the Captain was in the right to deny you boarding. He might have been afraid, and rightly so, that once you boarded the ship, you might not have been allowed off the ship upon returning to a US Port. Would you have been happy being literally held hostage by the US Government on the Eurodam until the mess could have been rectified??

 

Joanie

Edited February 17, 2013 by IRL_Joanie
spelling

[IRL_Joanie]

Wait a minute. It dawns on me. You would have needed a passport to get from Germany to the US. No?

 

No sir he would not have needed a US Passport to travel to the US at the age of 8 months because his mother was/is a German citizen.

 

As an infant under the age of 5 he was entitled to travel under his parents Passports.

 

The laws that covered children born of 1 or more US Citizens brn in a foreign country were changed about 20-30 so years ago. Apparently the parents of the OP were not made aware of the fact that he would have to choose which country's citizen he wished to be considered as and to denunce the other officially, at the age of 18.

 

Joanie

[mariner]

Yet when you enlist/drafted, dont you pick citizenship?

[Mary Ellen]

No. Got here on a U.S. Army Hospital ship. My mother says, since my father was in the Army, and they were married, their 8 month old baby didn't have to have a passport. My parent's passports were sufficient.

No doubt you were included on your mother's passport. DH was 18 months old when he was first on his mother's passport when she brought him to the US to meet the grandparents. He is even in the photo with his mother. When the family came back to the US after being stationed in Japan, the passport photo has the two older children standing besides their mother and the youngest is an infant in her arms. This is the same time period as the OP was when he came to the US. Children didn't travel without passports then.

 

You never know when a passport will come in handy. About a year ago we had to meet with a government employee to document DH's birth. We took all the necessary documentation with us to the appointment. The original German birth certificate, the official US Army translation, the State Department certificate of US citizen born abroad. Everything the OP supposedly currently needed for a closed loop cruise. At the last second we took along the passport as it was with all the other papers in the safety deposit box.

 

The government employee kept going round and round about the German birth. Even though we told her that he was only 2 1/2 when his dad was transferred back to the States, she wouldn't let go of the idea he had worked in Germany.

 

She went over the certificate of US citizen born abroad. With that certificate in her hand, she kept questioning about his "naturalization". She would not let go of that idea. DH was about ready to suggest she call the DoD. I know enough not to talk about the type of clearance(s), but suffice it to say they had confidence in his being born a US citizen. ;)

 

It wasn't until DH pulled out his passport that this government employee was satisfied. Why the passport did it for her, I don't know. I didn't dare point out to her that even if DH had been a naturalized citizen that he still could have had a US passport.

 

As I keep saying, being born abroad is 'out of the norm' - even for government employees. Even if you have no plans to leave the country, you can't go wrong having a passport. Period.

[Cruzin Terri]

Most of these don't establish citizenship. But iirc, the DD214 does have a field where citizenship is listed (been a long time since I examined one). If so, that should have been sufficient.

Ruth

From one former Fed to another. What agency did you work for? I worked for SSA.

Terri

[NMLady]

I'm sorry to hear that your vacation/cruise was a bust.

 

However, I cannot believe in this day an age that you didn't know that a Passport is required for travel out of country. Every cruise contract I have read have stated requirement for a valid passport.

 

Holland America does not have the power to change immigration/customs requirements.

 

Passports are NOT needed for a closed loop cruise. A raised seal birth certificate and photo id is all that is required. But it sounds as if the OP's birth certificate wasn't the required kind.

[richwmn]

You dont need to prove a point here. You need to prove a point with seattle. But really, military, and never been issued a passport? Get one. It's worth the expense. In the old days, you got a diplomatic one. Those disappeared after Iran.

 

I am not sure when the "old days" you are talking about were. During my service ('73 to '79) active duty did not need a passport while overseas as long as they were under orders. I had to get one to travel on leave between overseas stations, but could not get it until I returned to the US.

 

Most of these don't establish citizenship. But iirc, the DD214 does have a field where citizenship is listed (been a long time since I examined one). If so, that should have been sufficient.

 

I just looked at my DD214 and couldn't find a citizenship field. Mine was issued in '79, so documents issued in other times may be different.

[NMLady]

I don't know how the OP could not have known that she needed a passport to travel outside the country. There has been ample news reports during the last two years, advising U.S. citizens that they will need a passport. Further, if the OP had thought to check the HAL website, she would have seen that a passport was needed. It is unfortunate that she had to learn the hard way that the necessary information should come from an authentic source and not over the telephone from a questionable source.

 

Passports are not needed by US citizens for closed loop cruises which most cruises to the Caribbean are.

[nana51]

Yet when you enlist/drafted, dont you pick citizenship?

No, my brother was drafted in 1964 when we had only been here from Canada 2 years. He was not a citizen and was not one when he was done with his service. Nice huh.

[NMLady]

I am so sorry to learn of your problems but some one screwed up badly when they did not tell you that things have changed since 9//11//01 and that you must have a valid passport to travel.

 

Fr, did you not see from OP post that he was going to Caribbean, so he was probably on a closed loop cruise which, as you know, does not require a passport.

[redroses]

Can you get your local TV news station/paper involved? In the bay area, there is a segment on tv where the reporter helps resolve consumer issues. Might be something similar where you live. Another method is try to post of HAL's facebook page. Hope you get a refund!

[NMLady]

Before your cruise, how did you fill out your e-docs? I just went to my e docs for my next cruise and the word "passport" appears at least twice on the first page. You are also required to put your passport number on your documents.

 

Who filled out your documents for you?

 

Look again at online checkin. For closed loop cruises you have the option of checking birth certificate I lieu of passport. You do not have to give passport number if you've checked birth certificate.

[NMLady]

I don't know your age, but assuming you are an adult you must be aware that the US government will not anyone back into this country from anywhere without a passport. I'm sorry, but this one really is on you, not HAL. It doesn't matter what someone told you in an internet chat, the law is the law and the Department of Homeland Security is quite adamant about not letting anyone in without a passport.

 

What you are saying is not true for passengers on cruise ships on a closed loop cruise of Caribbean. OP was going to Caribbean from FL. Those are closed loop cruises.