Holland America Lines Disasterdam

[1of4]

This is the stuff of travel nighmares! You try your best to ask the right questions and still, something goes wrong.

 

I have never been in your exact shoes, but I have been in situations where, I imagine, I felt the same way because I asked the question what felt like 100s of times to multiple of people but one person says "no". In my case I was in a plane in the middle of the pacific ocean when there was an emergency and the plane was diverted and at the new airport I was not permitted to board a flight to home because the plane was not where I was supposed to be...no kidding. At least in my case I was returning from my vacation.

 

I am sorry and I hope HAL makes it right for you.

[sail7seas]

This is the stuff of travel nighmares! You try your best to ask the right questions and still, something goes wrong.

 

I have never been in your exact shoes, but I have been in situations where, I imagine, I felt the same way because I asked the question what felt like 100s of times to multiple of people but one person says "no". In my case I was in a plane in the middle of the pacific ocean when there was an emergency and the plane was diverted and at the new airport I was not permitted to board a flight to home because the plane was not where I was supposed to be...no kidding. At least in my case I was returning from my vacation.

 

I am sorry and I hope HAL makes it right for you.

 

 

Please tell us the rest of this story. It sounds dreadful. :eek:

 

[catl331]

The Captain in this case was just agreeing with what the authorities were telling him ...

That's not the way I read what the OP said at all.

[micmacmissy]

I am so sorry this happened to you.

 

I am also sorry people feel the need to shred you or tell you now you should have had a passport. (Gee, thanks, that's so helpful.)

 

I hope you get the refund you deserve. Good luck.

[Cruzin Terri]

Yes, I agree that the Captain was advised but the Captain is going to go by what the Officials told him, he also is not an expert on the proper identification nor should he be. Could the Captain have over rode what Homeland Security Officers stated, yes but if they were advising him that they were not accepting or recommending accepting the documentation presented then there is no way the Captain would have approved. There could have been strict penalties to the Ship/Cruise line and possible problems with reentry into the US and with the other Caribbean Islands that were involved being Bahamas and Grand Turk. The Captain in this case was just agreeing with what the authorities were telling him and not wanting to place these passengers in jeopardy.

 

I think you need to reread the OP's post. That is definitely not what transpired.

It's your version of the events.

Terri

Edited February 18, 2013 by tbrein

[Laminator]

I don't know your age, but assuming you are an adult you must be aware that the US government will not anyone back into this country from anywhere without a passport. I'm sorry, but this one really is on you, not HAL. It doesn't matter what someone told you in an internet chat, the law is the law and the Department of Homeland Security is quite adamant about not letting anyone in without a passport.

 

That is absolutely wrong! We use our global entry cards when we return. I believe the Nexus and Sentry cards can also be used! I just know for fact the GOES card can be used.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Laminator

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I think you need to reread the OP's post. That is definitely not what transpired.

It's your version of the events.

Terri

 

I am not going to argue but NO where did I read that the Captain himself came down to review the documents presented and told them NO. I would actually be quite shocked if the Captain actually presented himself and looked at the documents. Was he advised of what was happening by someone else of authority that did review the documents YES, of which case that person told the OP they were hopeful but obviously the Captain was not willing to over ride what he was told or advised.

I do feel sorry for the OP and I do feel he took the appropriate steps but he should have to taken it a bit father and actually taken it to US State Department. Had he done that he may have obtained the correct paper work, NO I am not hounding about a Passport because he did not need one he did however need documentation stating he in fact was a Naturalized US Citizen so that he would not have problems returning to the United Stated and it appears that the paper work provided was not clear to that effect, those speaking to the Captain most likely advised the Captain of that. This is what ejammer stated

No mam, our 4 hour roller coaster ride of emotions consisted of: sitting patiently in the waiting area, consoling my heart-broken sobbing wife as she calmly sat there endeavoring to block out the traumatic frustration by playing games on her iPhone; diplomatically checking with the manager once every hour or so; watching everyone else in the boarding line pass us by; and looking out the window at the Eurodam. The exasperation was intermingled by moments of hope like when others waiting there with us with similar issues were finally permitted to board; like several non-English speaking Chinese exchange students one of who's visa had expired; then another couple from Zimbabwe with questionable documentation; and a few others, until finally we were the only one's remaining there alone. Another moment of false encouragement and temporary anxiety reliever moment was when the custom's officer finally actually showed up, looked at my documentation, called his supervisor, and optimistically told us everything would be ok, and we were "going to enjoy our cruise". He just needed to get the final OK from the ship personnel.

 

Now that was almost a fun 30 minutes or so as I attempted to wipe my wife's tears, reassuring her, and discussing our dream adventure plans again. Boom. Captain wouldn't authorize it because he was "fearful of possible fines from custom's upon our return departure for letting us on board without proper documentation". Then, the manager realized all our luggage was already on board the ship, which led to another very stressful 30ish minutes, during which they weren't sure they would even be able to find it in the great big pile I had been watching them load. (On an almost-humorous-under-any-other-circumstances side note, when they finally found and returned our luggage, it included the luggage of another passenger. Which, of course we politely told the embarrassed manager about, and gave back to her.)

Now let me ask you do you think that Captain came down in person to tell him this?? also I would not be the least bit surprised that the PHRASE "the Captain said NO" is not used as a Catch ALL for a way to say NO and not have the person giving the bad news be the bad guy. Please ejammer if I am wrong and the Captain himself came down and told you this please correct me. But truthfully I kind of doubt it.

[Cruzin Terri]

I am not going to argue but NO where did I read that the Captain himself came down to review the documents presented and told them NO. I would actually be quite shocked if the Captain actually presented himself and looked at the documents. Was he advised of what was happening by someone else of authority that did review the documents YES, of which case that person told the OP they were hopeful but obviously the Captain was not willing to over ride what he was told or advised.

I do feel sorry for the OP and I do feel he took the appropriate steps but he should have to taken it a bit father and actually taken it to US State Department. Had he done that he may have obtained the correct paper work, NO I am not hounding about a Passport because he did not need one he did however need documentation stating he in fact was a Naturalized US Citizen so that he would not have problems returning to the United Stated and it appears that the paper work provided was not clear to that effect, those speaking to the Captain most likely advised the Captain of that. This is what ejammer stated

Now let me ask you do you think that Captain came down in person to tell him this?? also I would not be the least bit surprised that the PHtRASE "the Captain said NO" is not used as a Catch ALL for a way to say NO and not have the person giving the bad news be the bad guy. Please ejammer if I am wrong and the Captain himself came down and told you this please correct me. But truthfully I kind of doubt it.

No I do not think the Captain came and spoke to them personally, but I do think that it was related to him that the Captain was fearful of fines if allowed him on board by someone from the ship. Why do you doubt this?

Terri

[peaches from georgia]

...........

NO I am not hounding about a Passport because he did not need one he did however need documentation stating he in fact was a Naturalized US Citizen so that he would not have problems returning to the United Stated and it appears that the paper work provided was not clear to that effect, those speaking to the Captain most likely advised the Captain of that. This is what ejammer stated

...........

He was not a NATURALIZED citizen. He is a Natural Born citizen- an American citizen born of an American citizen father in the US Army stationed in Germany. He was born in a US Army hospital in Germany and was a citizen at birth, not naturalized as you said. You might retread his entire story. What you are saying he stated is not what he said at all

Edited February 18, 2013 by peaches from georgia

[Wakepatrol]

I promise, one way, or the other, good or bad, all of you here, and as many other eyes and ears as I can find, anywhere and everywhere, for as many months or years as possible, will know the outcome of this! :)

 

Well it appears you have a "Dream Team" of experts on here. I hope it all works out for you.

[jtl513]

... but obviously the Captain was not willing to over ride what he was told or advised.

:confused: How can you possibly know what he was told or advised? Maybe he did override advice to let them board. And no one suggested he met with ejammer personally. Edited February 18, 2013 by jtl513

[startwin]

No point in arguing with a cheerleader.

 

OP - it is evident that HAL failed you. Please let us know how this all turns out once someone in customer service deals with it. I'm sorry there are people on here who feel the need to beat up on you for something that was clearly not your fault. Good luck.

[Mary Ellen]

He was not a NATURALIZED citizen. He is a Natural Born citizen- an American citizen born of an American citizen father in the US Army stationed in Germany. He was born in a US Army hospital in Germany and was a citizen at birth, not naturalized as you said. You might retread his entire story. What you are saying he stated is not what he said at all

I agree that the OP is not a naturalized citizen as some mistakenly believe. He was a US citizen at birth. Being born in a US Army hospital has no bearing though. All that matters is the citizenship of the parent(s) and some residence issues.

 

From the US State Department website:

 

Birth Abroad to Two U.S. Citizen Parents in Wedlock

 

A child born abroad to two U.S. citizen parents acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under section 301© of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) provided that one of the parents had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions prior to the child’s birth. The child is considered to be born in wedlock if the child is the genetic issue of the married couple.

 

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock

 

A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be genetically related to the child to transmit U.S. citizenship.

While I know his mother was German, I'm not remembering what her citizenship was at the time of his birth. Either way, no mention is made that the birth must take place in a US military hospital.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Mary Ellen
Formatting issues

[Cruzin Terri]

I agree that the OP is not a naturalized citizen as some mistakenly believe. He was a US citizen at birth. Being born in a US Army hospital has no bearing though. All that matters is the citizenship of the parent(s) and some residence issues.

 

From the US State Department website:

 

 

While I know his mother was German, I'm not remembering what her citizenship was at the time of his birth. Either way, no mention is made that the birth must take place in a US military hospital.

 

He was born in a military hospital. Or so he says. I am sure he is not lying

Terri

[jtl513]

Either way, no mention is made that the birth must take place in a US military hospital.

Nor does the fact that it was in an Army hospital mean that his soldier father was a citizen. There's lots of non-citizens in our armed forces.

[peaches from georgia]

I agree that the OP is not a naturalized citizen as some mistakenly believe. He was a US citizen at birth. Being born in a US Army hospital has no bearing though. All that matters is the citizenship of the parent(s) and some residence issues.

 

From the US State Department website:

 

 

While I know his mother was German, I'm not remembering what her citizenship was at the time of his birth. Either way, no mention is made that the birth must take place in a US military hospital.

I didn't mean to intimate that being born in that hospital was the reason he is a natural born citizen, just that that was where he was born. I am fully aware he was a citizen because his father was a citizen. The point was Lisa is giving many opinions on this situation and obviously has not even clearly read what OP said and didn't say.

[OHCruiser]

That is absolutely wrong! We use our global entry cards when we return. I believe the Nexus and Sentry cards can also be used! I just know for fact the GOES card can be used.

 

 

You need a valid passport to get a Global Entry card (and they suggest that you carry it with you when you travel, anyway) and a quick look at the other 2 shows a passport as the identity document used for application......

[Laminator]

You need a valid passport to get a Global Entry card (and they suggest that you carry it with you when you travel, anyway) and a quick look at the other 2 shows a passport as the identity document used for application......

 

I know that but that is not what the poster stated.

[sppunk]

Another example of Seattle failing to provide proper, factual information ... this time it cost a vacation. Depressing would be the word if anger wasn't first up.

 

Sorry, OP. I hope HAL makes their mistake right, or at least tries.

[Cruzin Terri]

Another example of Seattle failing to provide proper, factual information ... this time it cost a vacation. Depressing would be the word if anger wasn't first up.

 

Sorry, OP. I hope HAL makes their mistake right, or at least tries.

 

I don't think Seattle was wrong this time. It appears it was whoever made the final decision to deny boarding.

 

I do hope HAL makes this right for the OP.

Terri

[OHCruiser]

I know that but that is not what the poster stated.

 

 

The poster you responded to said that you couldn't get back into the country without a passport.

Your response states that you can get back in without a passport by using one of the aformentioned cards (which are merely paid programs using a fast-track card that has been issued USING A PASSPORT as a means of ID).

 

The tone of the response implied that the card(s) were independent of a passport, but they're not because you need a passport to get a card.

 

Fact is that the OP had no passport, could not have gotten such a card, and therefore the issue/argument/discussion about such cards is moot.

[the2ofus]

I know this thread has gone on forever. Probably no purpose in re-hashing however I think often a problem of this type is due to mis-communication rather than actual wrong information. I could not read the copy of the conversation the OP posted. I wonder if both parties verified, as the conversation proceeded, that each fully understood the other.

 

When you know your situation is unusual, as the OP did, it really behooves you to verify from more than one source that the information is correct.

 

I really do sympathize that they had to miss their cruise, especially after standing around and waiting at the terminal for so many hours. Hopefully they will travel often in the future with no further snags.

[slideshell]

I haven't read this entire thread but just wanted to add my two cents - a few years ago we took a family cruise from Baltimore to the Caribbean - my brother was born in Germany on a US army base to my German mother and American father in 1970 - prior to the cruise he realized his passport got lost in a recent move and his attempt at getting an expedited one in time failed - we all cruised (including my brother) with no issues whatsoever (on celebrity) - it took a little bit longer for him to go through the initial boarding process at the port because his birth certificate was different but he was allowed to board, he was allowed in all of our ports and was allowed to return to Baltimore

 

While I agree that a passport is the best bet to avoid these issues it seems to me that given the OPs circumstances being so similar to my brothers and the information given to him by the cruise line there shouldn't have been such an issue (we too checked with our TA and celebrity once we realized my brothers passport wasn't going to make it in time to verify that his unique birth certificate would be sufficient)

[JLC@SD]

Of all the situations I have read on CC, yours is the most compelling and in need of resolution.

 

Have you contacted any ombudsman or consumer advocate in Tennessee? Or can you find one in Seattle, where HAL has HQ?

 

Can someone like Clark Howard help? It cannot hurt to ask.

 

You can file a request with your Visa or MC to reverse the charges for your cruise...to at least recover those funds.

 

Your copy of the HAL conversation puts the he said/she said issue to rest.

 

Finally, after all of this, please do not blame the people at the port. The phone reps are notorious (any cruise line) for making things up as they go along. Did you happen to get any names?

 

IMO, if someone working directly for HAL gave you wrong information and you completely missed your ship as a result, HAL has an obligation to make you whole...fine print on a cruise contract notwithstanding.

How can you possibly conclude HAL has "an obligation". All that has been posted is an experience with a very disappointing result.

 

Bottom line ......what is the "birth certificate" document.

 

Is it issued by a German hospital or by the German government. Is it issued by a US government entity with the raised seal as required. It seems that since officials at the port were on and off about it ....the document was questionable.

 

Unfortunately, as reported by the OP, the person with the final authority (and responsibility) the Captain, did not like what he saw and rejected it.

 

My daughter was born at the 97th in Frankfurt, Germany. We had to go to the US Consulate (as IRL Joanie posted) to get her an official US birth certificate. If the OP has a US consulate issued BC there should not have been a problem. If the BC is something else ........how can HAL be responsible for rejecting it.

 

I agree with others ...a passport is the best document, especially if you have a BC that could be questioned.

Edited February 18, 2013 by JLC@SD

[Mary Ellen]

He was born in a military hospital. Or so he says. I am sure he is not lying

Terri

Oh, I have no reason to think he is lying either. My point was that posters mention his being born in a US Army hospital like that has some bearing on his citizenship eligibility and it does not. He could have been born in his parents home, a car on the way to the hospital, a field, wherever.

 

As long as at least one parent was a US citizen (and met the residency requirements) a child would be a US citizen at birth no matter where they were born.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Mary Ellen