Royal announces 3rd quantum ship, when will Celebrity do something.

[johhnnyt]

[quote name='Xellent']But does a passenger, attracted by low fares, spend more onboard than a passenger paying the full original list price?
I'm not disputing any argument, just looking for actual data.

There are several posters who state they pay minimum fares and I just wonder if they also economize onboard? If you know how the system works will you also book private tours rather than supporting onboard sales? Are these cruisers also looking at Breitling and Omega watches rather than the $10 specials? Will they be elites getting free drinks or guests buying dining packages? Are the people filling the ships the targeted demographic who will spend freely onboard?[/QUOTE]

It's an excellent point. I think you would find it probable that the ones that do pay the minimum fares also economize on their onboard spending, so for them, they are probably a wash for cruiseline profit. Importantly though they fill the voids that would otherwise go unsold, so at least the minimal fares help pay the operating costs.

My guess is that the "bread & butter" clients are the ones that cruise on an once a year, first timers, special occasion cruisers, so the experience is more WOW, and less routine, I would think they would be more willing to try excursions, the spa, casino, art auctions, specialty restaraunts, etc.

Be interesting to see how the 1,2,3 promotion affects revenue. Providing free drinks I would imagine, would make folks gamble more, be less likely to think twice about spending on extras

[TheCruisingQueen]

I think that Celebrity is good for now, but sometime around 2015-2016, the company should plan to retire the Century. The first and now, last surviving of its class, is getting old. Royal Caribbean has just retired the Monarch, and previously before, the Sovereign. I don't think it will be much longer for the Majesty either. Celebrity should do the same, by 2015, the Millennium will be already 15 years old as well, and the Century will be 20. My favourite class in particular is the the Solstice class, which in time, will be ageing as well. I think around the time where Celebrity retires the Century, they should announce a new class to set sail starting from around 2017. It shouldn't be smaller than the Solstice Class already is, the market these days calls for larger. I think Celebrity will stick with the 3000 passenger range though. I found the Equinox's size to be perfect, which is why I am going on the Solstice this month. I found the Reflection, to just be too big for the Solstice Class, Celebrity kind of crammed everything into the ship while trying to get larger.

As for the Quantum, you won't find me on that. It is really just a sailing amusement park. I like cruising the way it was in the early to mid 2000's. It's getting much too out of hand now, cruising is meant to be going to different places, while enjoying a ship. What happened to the grand and splendour feel of the ships in the previous years? Cruising is not meant to be some rowdy amusement park. I am not sure what Royal Caribbean is headed for next. The Oasis and Allure were good enough.

[COLOR="Plum"][B]TheCruisingQueen [/B][/COLOR] [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Tudor_Crown_(Heraldry).svg/220px-Tudor_Crown_(Heraldry).svg.png[/IMG]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]NCL Jewel November 2009
NCL Epic 2011
RCCL Allure of the seas September 2011
Celebrity Equinox March 2012
Carnival Glory August 2012
Celebrity Reflection February 2013

Celebrity Solstice June 2013[/COLOR]

[johhnnyt]

[quote name='TheCruisingQueen']I think that Celebrity is good for now, but sometime around 2015-2016, the company should plan to retire the Century. The first and now, last surviving of its class, is getting old. Royal Caribbean has just retired the Monarch, and previously before, the Sovereign. I don't think it will be much longer for the Majesty either. Celebrity should do the same, by 2015, the Millennium will be already 15 years old as well, and the Century will be 20. My favourite class in particular is the the Solstice class, which in time, will be ageing as well. I think around the time where Celebrity retires the Century, they should announce a new class to set sail starting from around 2017. It shouldn't be smaller than the Solstice Class already is, the market these days calls for larger. I think Celebrity will stick with the 3000 passenger range though. I found the Equinox's size to be perfect, which is why I am going on the Solstice this month. I found the Reflection, to just be too big for the Solstice Class, Celebrity kind of crammed everything into the ship while trying to get larger.

As for the Quantum, you won't find me on that. It is really just a sailing amusement park. I like cruising the way it was in the early to mid 2000's. It's getting much too out of hand now, cruising is meant to be going to different places, while enjoying a ship. What happened to the grand and splendour feel of the ships in the previous years? Cruising is not meant to be some rowdy amusement park. I am not sure what Royal Caribbean is headed for next. The Oasis and Allure were good enough.
[/QUOTE]

One of the senior marketing people at RCCL corporate in Miami told me something a year or so that still sticks in my head. With RCCL ships , "they are the destination" , so really a whole different market than Celebrity which brings you to your destination.

I think the Allure, Oasis, Breakaway, and Quantum are meant to be alternatives to theme parks, rather than cruise ships that bring you to a new destination.

I think most of those large ships can only fit into a handful of destinations ports now anyway, so their marketing strategy/demographics are much different than Celebrity/HAL/Princess, Etc

[C 2 C]

[quote name='fortinweb']During my years in retail management we counted on this very tactic to meet our revenue goals. In fact, virtually EVERY business you deal with will do the same -

It is after they convince you to be their customer that they actually begin to make a profit.[/quote]
[quote name='fortinweb']Sorry, but I don't supply answers to disgruntled ex-Celebrity cruisers with an agenda.[/quote]

Thank you for your helpful response.
Nice management style....

[STEVE-O]

[quote name='STEVE-O']I'd like to see both RCCL & Celebrity build 2 new ships a year. EVENTUALLY...........they'd run out of places to park them then one or the other lines might discover there's a whole other coastline on the WEST side of the country!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

Not a single AMEN!!!!! from any of my west coast brothers or sisters????.......Maybe it's because the lack of ships on the west coast is discussed on other threads or it's not that big a deal...........

[cruisenguy2]

The lack of cruises from the west coast may be due to a lack of destination ports for a 7 night cruise. About all you can do is Mexico.

[richsea]

The lack of cruises from the west coast may be due to a lack of destination ports for a 7 night cruise. About all you can do is Mexico.

 

I was going to post the same point, but you beat me. Some lines, including Celebrity, pulled out of the Mexican Riviera because they could not sell the cabins for enough money to make it worthwhile. And it would've be even worse now with all the reports of violence in Mexico.

[The Big Booper]

 

...>>>SNIP<<<>...

 

Supposedly, the only non-luxury ships that command a significant premium to sail on them are Allure and Oasis. This, of course, is contrary to what one would expect - paying extra to be surrounded by literally thousands of people. But - never underestimate people's desire to be on the "biggest" or sparkliest (is that even a word?) thing going.

 

In fact, ships like Royal Princess and Norwegian Breakaway are "responses" to the Solstice Class. They have many more passengers and a reduced passenger space ratio. If people aren't going to pay for the luxury of beautiful design and space, we're simply going to cram them on board.

 

...>>>SNIP>>>...

 

 

You appended your extensive cruising history in your signature. No where do I see the names Oasis and Allure.

 

So I'll repeat myself, they NEVER EVER felt crowded aside from the parades and that problem can be solved by going up to the Schooner Bar on the mezzanine level. Even on a hot sunny day at sea there were always stacks of unused pool lounge chairs no matter which of the many pools you settled down at. Try that on any Princess, Carnival or NCL ship.

 

If some marine engineer could convert open space and combine with the closed in GRT you would find that the duo has, by far, the greatest space ratio on any passenger ship. All of the many attractions are carefully scattered about these large ships to minimize crowding.

 

Which is why the two big girls get premium per diem rates.

 

And the 4 Princess Super-Grands, which went into service from 2002-2007, well before Celebrity even announced the S class, are just as overcrowded as the Royal. Nothing to do with Celebrity's discounting and give-a ways, everything to do with the acquisition of Princess by Carnival, the master of squeezin' em in, in the late 1990s.

[STEVE-O]

The lack of cruises from the west coast may be due to a lack of destination ports for a 7 night cruise. About all you can do is Mexico.

 

Panama Canal cruises....Pacific Coastals to Canada or RT to/from Hawaii.....if not for a full year.....how about 4-6 months before sending the ship to the Orient/Australia???

 

I know.....this has been cussed and discussed to death on CC and not really the point of this thread so.......I'll back of my soapbox now....

[lovemylab]

Panama Canal cruises....Pacific Coastals to Canada or RT to/from Hawaii.....if not for a full year.....how about 4-6 months before sending the ship to the Orient/Australia???

 

I know.....this has been cussed and discussed to death on CC and not really the point of this thread so.......I'll back of my soapbox now....

 

It's not possible to do Hawaii or the Panama Canal as a 7 day cruise.

[C 2 C]

The 123 Promotions and myriad variations are all designed to get people on these ships - no matter what the cost. People constantly talk about how full their sailing was - it's frankly a meaningless statement unless you know what the average price paid per person was.

So .... until you see the average fleetwide per diem increase on Celebrity, there are going to be no new ships announced for a while.

 

The S-class ships have always had accolades about their beauty but we don't like the atrium-based entertainment. Oasis, despite not having the nice touches that cruisers describe in S-class, has a greater choice of lounges where a cruiser can find something to their own taste.

We continue to prefer M-class ships because they are smaller and offer a greater choice of isolated lounges and a dance floor that is not a traffic corridor. Celebrity has also added extra cabins on M-class ships and reduced the size of the Reflection Lounge.

However M-class ships have also had to offer incentives to fill the fleet.

When we were looking for alternatives to our European sailings, Constellation offered 12-night cruises in an OV for under $100 per night including a free beverage package and free gratuities plus a $250 OBC from the TA and a Choiceair flight to Istanbul for less than $600. That offer was just to good to ignore for back to back sailings in Greece and The Mediterranean.

 

Celebrity has tried to raise prices but on many sailings the realities of the market has forced them to come up with a continuous string of incentives.

[WestLakeGirl]

Reflection? Never again! That ship is not for me..............stylish but crowded. Thank g_d there are altrrnatives.

[terrierjohn]

A very recent article in USA Today spoke of these soft bookings, and they had quotes from the spokespersons from RCI, NCL and Carnival and all three admitted that their summer and fall bookings are slow. They attributed it to the economy, the insane airfares and in part to the ship incidents. So, it's not conjecture on our part, but something admitted by the cruise lines themselves.

....and of course everything in the papers is the gospel truth!!!!:rolleyes:;)

[gold1953]

and I was most disgusted at having to eat food from plastic plates on the Oasis and worse was drinking my tea from plastic. I shouldn't have to go to a venue that cost extra for something so simple. I already paid a lot of money for the cruise. Plastic does not bother my husband...LOL!!

and that is why there are so many clothing styles, types of music and colors of paint, etc........ We all have different likes and dislikes!

[The Big Booper]

and I was most disgusted at having to eat food from plastic plates on the Oasis and worse was drinking my tea from plastic. I shouldn't have to go to a venue that cost extra for something so simple. I already paid a lot of money for the cruise. Plastic does not bother my husband...LOL!!

and that is why there are so many clothing styles, types of music and colors of paint, etc........ We all have different likes and dislikes!

 

RCI uses heavy duty plastic plates in case the ship bounces, pitches or tilts. Talk to people on the Crown Princess when that ship did an 18 degree tilt in 2006. The fancy plates and crocks flew threw the air and shattered, turning into sharp edge and jagged weapons.

 

A question,does the Reflection main theater have more seats then the first 3 S ships? And are the lounges and specialty restaurants larger?

 

Europe is in terrible financial shape which is why all the lines are doing summer giveaways. I wouldn't mind if Celebrity did more summer cruises in 2014 from Florida since we are moving from NY to Fla in the fall. TA airfare is a killer.

[dkjretired]

RCI uses heavy duty plastic plates in case the ship bounces, pitches or tilts. Talk to people on the Crown Princess when that ship did an 18 degree tilt in 2006. The fancy plates and crocks flew threw the air and shattered, turning into sharp edge and jagged weapons.

 

A question,does the Reflection main theater have more seats then the first 3 S ships? And are the lounges and specialty restaurants larger?

 

Europe is in terrible financial shape which is why all the lines are doing summer giveaways. I wouldn't mind if Celebrity did more summer cruises in 2014 from Florida since we are moving from NY to Fla in the fall. TA airfare is a killer.

 

Here's a link to the press release from about two years ago, towards the bottom they give the numbers of extra seats that you were asking about.

 

http://www.celebritycruises.com/aboutceleb/tabLanding.do?pagename=footer_pages_about_celebrity#footer_pages_about_celebrity_press_room_tab/aboutceleb/pressRoomDetails.do%3Fevent_date=2011-12-07&event_type=press_release&sequence_code=A&pageNumber=6

[tunaman2011]

Greetings

 

One thing that should be stated during this lively discussion is that the public in general adore new ships. If Celebrity wants to attract new clientele they will need new ship builds. A new ship launch is guaranteed to get the TAs and media all abuzz. The features of the next series of Celebrity ships can be argued endlessly, but I think they probably already have the next series in the planning stages.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

[The Big Booper]

Here's a link to the press release from about two years ago, towards the bottom they give the numbers of extra seats that you were asking about.

 

http://www.celebritycruises.com/aboutceleb/tabLanding.do?pagename=footer_pages_about_celebrity#footer_pages_about_celebrity_press_room_tab/aboutceleb/pressRoomDetails.do%3Fevent_date=2011-12-07&event_type=press_release&sequence_code=A&pageNumber=6

 

Thanks for the info. =X= seems to have expanded the ship and the total seats available.

 

It appears that I was fed bad info for my original post.

 

We are relocating to Florida this summer and are looking forward to booking cruises with no air.

[boogs]

RCI uses heavy duty plastic plates in case the ship bounces, pitches or tilts.

 

Interesting that these are ships that RCI brags are the most stable in the industry, but then are afraid of broken crockery due to bounces, pitches or tilts, while the smaller ships, which presumably aren't as stable, use real plates. My guess is that it's simply a decision to do things on the cheap.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Interesting that these are ships that RCI brags are the most stable in the industry, but then are afraid of broken crockery due to bounces, pitches or tilts, while the smaller ships, which presumably aren't as stable, use real plates. My guess is that it's simply a decision to do things on the cheap.

 

I have been on every class of RCI ship and they all use the melamine plastic plates/mugs in the windjammer. MDR and specialty restaurants all use ceramic.

[STEVE-O]

It's not possible to do Hawaii or the Panama Canal as a 7 day cruise.

 

I don't recall saying anything about limiting sailings to 7 days...................

[lovemylab]

I don't recall saying anything about limiting sailings to 7 days...................

 

You didn't say anything about 7 days, but the person you quoted (and was therefore replying to) did. They pointed out the reason for a lack of cruises on the West Coast is due to limited number of ports available for 7 night sailings (i.e. Mexico).

 

You then suggested Panama and Hawaii as itineraries in reply to that post.

[luvbluseas]

Hi Dln,

 

I agree. Of Royal's 3 USA based brands, Azamara is the only one without a newbuild. It's been rumored for some time, and IMO, long overdue. I'd love to see Celebrity add more ships, but I wonder if RCCL might be happy where they are right now.

 

When that day comes for Celebrity, I highly doubt they will be any smaller than the S-Class. I wouldn't be surprised to see them around the 140-150,000 ton range. I realize that some may not be happy with that prospect, but it's far more profitable to build them larger, as economies of scale kick in.

 

 

I would not want them to build anything any larger than S-class ships. Notice that these super large ships do not really go anywhere. The same old 7 night cruises to the same old Eastern and Western ports. After you have done those a few times where do you go?

 

I want "X" to do what they promised when they started the "S" class ships and that is to keep a ship in the Caribbean all summer. To my knowledge they did that for one summer and I cruised on the Solstice. Then never again. I would like to see more Caribbean Itineraries and 12 months a year. All of the cruise lines practically give away some of their Alaska cruises but I am NOT spending $2000 to fly/stay there for a one week cruise. I live in FL and we want to cruise the Caribbean, mostly the Southern Caribbean. MORE CARIBBEAN ITINERARIES - 12 MONTHS A YEAR!

[dkjretired]

I would not want them to build anything any larger than S-class ships. Notice that these super large ships do not really go anywhere. The same old 7 night cruises to the same old Eastern and Western ports. After you have done those a few times where do you go?

 

I want "X" to do what they promised when they started the "S" class ships and that is to keep a ship in the Caribbean all summer. To my knowledge they did that for one summer and I cruised on the Solstice. Then never again. I would like to see more Caribbean Itineraries and 12 months a year. All of the cruise lines practically give away some of their Alaska cruises but I am NOT spending $2000 to fly/stay there for a one week cruise. I live in FL and we want to cruise the Caribbean, mostly the Southern Caribbean. MORE CARIBBEAN ITINERARIES - 12 MONTHS A YEAR!

 

Problem with leaving a ship in the Caribbean in the summer was that the year they did it, the Solstice did not do well. There were massive price decreases and numerous upgrades, I got a fabulous one that summer. They are just able to make more money in other places. Also, I don't remember anyone ever promising they would keep a ship in the Caribbean for the summer.

 

Finally with the the competition of Oasis and Allure, not going to see that happen unless something drastically changes.

[tunaman2011]

I would not want them to build anything any larger than S-class ships. Notice that these super large ships do not really go anywhere. The same old 7 night cruises to the same old Eastern and Western ports. After you have done those a few times where do you go?

 

I want "X" to do what they promised when they started the "S" class ships and that is to keep a ship in the Caribbean all summer. To my knowledge they did that for one summer and I cruised on the Solstice. Then never again. I would like to see more Caribbean Itineraries and 12 months a year. All of the cruise lines practically give away some of their Alaska cruises but I am NOT spending $2000 to fly/stay there for a one week cruise. I live in FL and we want to cruise the Caribbean, mostly the Southern Caribbean. MORE CARIBBEAN ITINERARIES - 12 MONTHS A YEAR!

 

Greetings

 

The other problem with summer itineraries in the Caribbean are the storms. The ships may have to be rerouted due to the weather. This can be a big headache for the cruise lines. And it doesn't matter if a Cat 5 hurricane is right in your path, passengers get pissed when you miss the planned ports. And even worse, if the storm is near south Florida, entire cruises may be delayed until the ships can get back to their home port.

 

Good Sailing

Tom