Things being Discontinued the Fall?

[startwin]

Unfortunately this is very true and all most shocking the percentage of those who spend absolutely nothing and will stand in line asking to have the gratuities removed at the end of the cruise. The growing number of individuals that purchase a cruise scraping together money is shocking then they cannot afford anything but the free stuff on board. I have seen where some of these cheap Alaska cruises for $399 PP they had to use several credit cards to pay the full amount, then they had to figure out their air cost. The demographics of this HAL board does not even come close to the growing trend for many cruisers.

 

I'm going to disagree with the general assumption here (not just by your post, Lisa, there are others) that it is people who scrape together the cruise fare that ask to have gratuities removed. I have been standing in line at the front desk watching and listening to people I know are "well-heeled" demanding that the HSC be removed. I have had to listen to some of these same people bragging about how many cruises they take a year and how many countries they have visited. And yet it seems routine for them to remove the tips.

 

Personally, I save hard for my cruises especially now in retirement and on a "fixed income" - somewhat scraping together the fare. And in recent years, I am very careful to budget my spending. What I spend onboard, or not as the case may be, is no one else's business. The cruise contract does not contain any clause requiring a certain amount to be spent on board the ship.

[RuthC]

there was no counting at embarkation. It was two or three ports of call that are well known for having wonderful wines:D (or access to them):D

Considering the vast array of wines, and the limited storage space on the ship, I wonder if they were trying to get a handle on which ports were most popular for wines brought back so they could augment the on board supply? At considerable mark-up, of course. ;)

[Wakepatrol]

HSC charge unremovable and Not to be adjusted.

 

Not allowing campers to tote on cases of wine,soda and water when they sell these items onboard?

 

 

I can't believe it has taken them this long to wake up.

 

Whoever hatched the stupid plan to adjust/remove the HSC

 

I hope they've been fired and are now scraping barnacles off of Dam ships in the shipyard.

[iflyrc5]

On this past weeks cruise there were no day of the week carpets in the elevators, there was no disembarkation talk, the did a little FAQ sheet with your luggage tags, there was no paper survey, it will be emailed. The HSC was $11.50 pp as expected.

 

None of the Vista class ships have the day of the week in the elevators.

[scdreamer]

It is amazing to me to read here that there are passengers who have their automatic gratuities removed from their final bill as a matter of course. This has never crossed my mind - we have always just figured it in as a part of the fare, and always leave a little something more for any staff that has gone out of their way to make our time onboard better.

 

I guess if service on a particular voyage was truly horrible, one might consider doing this to make a point, but even then, it would be the lowest paid staff who would be affected, and it's doubtful any kind of "message" would be received by those in charge.

 

I am appalled that anyone would be that cheap. And we are not "big spenders," by any means. We are both still worker-bees and we save ahead for our vacations. I just can't imagine withholding tips for people who provide the services that make your cruise the pleasure it is.

 

Grrrr :mad:

[NoWhiners]

[quote name='Wakepatrol']HSC charge unremovable and Not to be adjusted.

[COLOR="Red"]Not allowing campers to tote on cases of wine,soda and water when they sell these items onboard? [/COLOR]


I can't believe it has taken them this long to wake up.

Whoever hatched the stupid plan to adjust/remove the HSC

I hope they've been fired and are now scraping barnacles off of Dam ships in the shipyard.[/QUOTE]

Really, this is what you post after reading all the above? You are entitled to your opinion, but insulting fellow cruisers is a bit over the top. Some of us like to try local wines, at a reasonable price. Our experience with HAL wines is that they are not particularly good and way overpriced. Bringing wine onboard is their policy, and we aren't doing anything wrong. And we spend plenty of money onboard, so something for everyone under the existing policy.

ML

[kazu]

[quote name='RuthC'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=royalblue]Considering the vast array of wines, and the limited storage space on the ship, I wonder if they were trying to get a handle on which ports were most popular for wines brought back so they could augment the on board supply? At considerable mark-up, of course. ;) [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

I just love the optimistic point of view:D:D Somehow that never crossed my mind;)

They did bring local beer on board in two ports. It didn't last two hours. :eek:

So, they can certainly make money and not have to worry about too many storage problems if that's any sign of things:)

[iflyrc5]

How about giving us the survey forms at the start of the cruise - that way we could fill them out as we go - not have to spend time on the last 1/2 day of the cruise and easier to jot the information down as it happens instead of trying to remember what happened 30 days before.

[jayjaycan]

I doubt they will make too many changes at once but I can forsee a gradual phase- in of eliminating:
Onboard Customer Survey and replace it with an on line,e mail Survey.
Disembarkation talk and replace with a written notification.
No more chocolates on your pillow.
No more towel animals.
No smoking on balconies.
Limits to wine brought onboard.
Elevator day of the week mats as current ones need replacing.

[kazu]

[quote name='NoWhiners']Really, this is what you post after reading all the above? You are entitled to your opinion, but insulting fellow cruisers is a bit over the top. [B]Some of us like to try local wines, at a reasonable price. Our experience with HAL wines is that they are not particularly good [/B]and way overpriced. Bringing wine onboard is their policy, and we aren't doing anything wrong. And we spend plenty of money onboard, so something for everyone under the existing policy.

ML[/QUOTE]

Bolding is mine - I agree. Savouring the wines and cultures is a lot of fun:)

btw - I have never brought on a case of wine ever - we carry on :)

we don't bother with water and the only thing we carry on other than the wine is clamato juice (if we can find it) as sometimes it isn't available on board:)

Let's put this in perspective - hotels don't object if you bring wine to your room to consume there - and yes, they too make money from selling in their lounges. The difference with a hotel is that you have a choice where to go and have a meal or a drink.

Cruise lines have a captive audience. If their wine selections are not great, you don't have much choice about what to do unless you choose to satisfy your palate with a different sampling:)

[Wakepatrol]

[quote name='scdreamer']It is amazing to me to read here that there are passengers who have their automatic gratuities removed from their final bill as a matter of course. This has never crossed my mind - we have always just figured it in as a part of the fare, and always leave a little something more for any staff that has gone out of their way to make our time onboard better.

I guess if service on a particular voyage was truly horrible, one might consider doing this to make a point, but even then, it would be the lowest paid staff who would be affected, and it's doubtful any kind of "message" would be received by those in charge.

I am appalled that anyone would be that cheap. And we are not "big spenders," by any means. We are both still worker-bees and we save ahead for our vacations. I just can't imagine withholding tips for people who provide the services that make your cruise the pleasure it is.

Grrrr :mad:[/quote]


Just hang around the front desk near the end of the cruise. You will see a line (as if they're giving away free cruises) with people removing the service charge. The best is those that claim "They Never Knew Of Such A Charge"

Or better yet...They want to tip their waiter themselves.

why? They want to see the smile on their waiters face when they slip him that $10 for a 7 day cruise:eek:

These are the same people that HAL actually gives them OBC and invites them back cause "everything went wrong":eek:

[durangoscots]

I am another one who plans ahead, budgets and scrimps to have enough for a cruise and it would never ever occur to me to remove the HSC. That is factored in to cost of the cruise along with such things as extra insurance, hotels before and after, tours, etc. And, I listened to a rather well heeled gentleman on a world cruise talk about removing the service charge... I am hoping that the number of us who spoke up about it talked him out of it... but I doubt it. He had no complaint with the service, just planned to tip his steward and possibly the dining room staff.

As to Louise's comments on the "lifting" of items.... nothing new. In 2008(again on on world cruise) my roommate had her camera stolen... it was a cheapie and not a great loss, but the loss of the pictures really hurt. - by the way, this not on HAL- Cunard. There seem to be light fingers everywhere. I used to scold my students who talked about "ripping off".... I said call it what it is "stealing".

Susan

Susan

[AlexandNessa]

I've read everything, and I have to say, the first thing that popped into my mind was the unlimited laundry for 4* Mariners and/or unlimited laundry/dry cleaning for Neptune/Pinnacle suite guests. I see limitations coming there. Not that I would be happy about it, but I think there is probably some abuse there. And where there is abuse, there is the potential for cost savings.

I'm ambivalent about smoking on balconies, primarily because in 20 cruises, I've only found it bothersome once.

I would rather fill out the post-cruise survey truly post-cruise, as in off the ship. Doing it on the ship is too much like homework while I'm trying to enjoy the last moments of my cruise.

[Krazy Kruizers]

[quote name='happyglobetrotter']This may explain why there are so many things are 'disappearing' on a ship, this may be why people steal from the other passengers and crew.

One laptop were taken during the WC 2012, it went disappearing from the Neptune lounge when a person stepped out for less than 5 minutes...and nobody saw anything. This is why a ipad was taken from the Debbie B. piano bar area (she was the pianist) during the WC 2013 when she inadvertedly forgot it there for 15 minutes. And this is why [B][COLOR=red]at least 40[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=red]small silver tea pots went missing from tea time during Grand Asia 2012.[/COLOR][/B] One it the staff members told me: I wish we could search the passengers luggage !!!! The crew have their luggage searched when they leave the ship. So it has to be passengers. IMO removing the tips is also a form of stealing...from the crew.

Also, WHY on earth is it that on a normal MDR meal, only one person or 2 persons at the table buy wine but when COMPLIMENTARY wine is offered, some <non wine drinkers> take 4 or 5 glasses each.


Louise[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]That sounds like a large number to me.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]As for the Complimentary wine -- the only time it has been offered is at the Captain's Welcome aboard reception in the show lounge -- which we haven't gone to in years.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]The only other time that we have had Complimentary wine offered is at the Mariner's brunch -- each person at our tables have only been offered ONE glass.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[buckirj1]

I think the Daily Service Charge is one of the great innovations of cruising. I began cruising at the tail end of the era when it was customary to seek out and hand li'l cash-stuffed envelopes to crew members at the end of the cruise. I always found that whole do-si-do very uncomfortable and frankly, *elitist*. This way is much better: the crew still gets their money, and I don't have to feel like the lady of the manor bestowing grace and favour upon my servants.

And its been demonstrated time and again that crew make more money from a daily service charge than relying on the old tipping scheme.

[Krazy Kruizers]

[quote name='scdreamer']It is amazing to me to read here that there are passengers who have their automatic gratuities removed from their final bill as a matter of course. This has never crossed my mind - we have always just figured it in as a part of the fare, and always leave a little something more for any staff that has gone out of their way to make our time onboard better.

I guess if service on a particular voyage was truly horrible, one might consider doing this to make a point, but even then, it would be the lowest paid staff who would be affected, and it's doubtful any kind of "message" would be received by those in charge.

I am appalled that anyone would be that cheap. And we are not "big spenders," by any means. We are both still worker-bees and we save ahead for our vacations. I just can't imagine withholding tips for people who provide the services that make your cruise the pleasure it is.

Grrrr :mad:[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]We also have never removed any or all of the Hotel Service Charges.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]The crew work hard -- very hard since there have been so many cut backs in their ranks.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]I just shake my head when I see the line at the front desk of people signing those forms.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]And we also personally give extra tips to those who have made our cruise an enjoyable one.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[NoWhiners]

[quote name='kazu']Bolding is mine - I agree. Savouring the wines and cultures is a lot of fun:)

btw - I have never brought on a case of wine ever - we carry on :)

we don't bother with water and the only thing we carry on other than the wine is clamato juice (if we can find it) as sometimes it isn't available on board:)

Let's put this in perspective - hotels don't object if you bring wine to your room to consume there - and yes, they too make money from selling in their lounges. The difference with a hotel is that you have a choice where to go and have a meal or a drink.

Cruise lines have a captive audience. If their wine selections are not great, you don't have much choice about what to do unless you choose to satisfy your palate with a different sampling:)[/QUOTE]

Jacqui

Completely agree and I love your analogy. Very appropriate too, since they consider the cabins a "hotel" and have a Hotel manager and Hotel Service charge. Being captive does subject us to the things HAL (or any other line) has on hand and that doesn't always work for everyone. We are really looking forward to going around the Black Sea and trying different wines from the ports we stop in. I have read some good things about Greek and Turkish wines, which surprised me!

having a glass of decent local wine is a big part of our memories of cruises.

ML

[sail7seas]

[quote name='buckirj1']I think the Daily Service Charge is one of the great innovations of cruising. I began cruising at the tail end of the era when it was customary to seek out and hand li'l cash-stuffed envelopes to crew members at the end of the cruise. I always found that whole do-si-do very uncomfortable and frankly, *elitist*. This way is much better: the crew still gets their money, and I don't have to feel like the lady of the manor bestowing grace and favour upon my servants.

And its been demonstrated time and again that crew make more money from a daily service charge than relying on the old tipping scheme.[/quote]


[B] An honest question requesting a straight forward answer, if you please.

What on earth is *elitist* (as written in your post) about placing cash in an envelope, writing a nice message of thanks and giving it most politely to a steward or bartender or other crew person who went out of their way to give us the best cruise possible?

We still tip by use of envelope, over and above the HSC. Almost always, our dining and cabin stewards as well as others work very hard to provide us a great cruise, we choose to give something additional. That is elitist? :confused:

This word 'elitist' is being used so often in so many ways, I no longer know what it means.
It seems sometimes it sounds to me like a handy dandy catchall to throw an insult. Am I wrong?


[/B]

[jtl513]

[quote name='startwin']... that ask to have [B]gratuities[/B] removed.

And yet it seems routine for them to remove the [B]tips[/B].
[/quote]

[quote name='scdreamer']... there are passengers who have their [B]automatic gratuities[/B] removed [/quote]The HSC is not a tip or gratuity. It is a charge for service rendered, and we should stop using the terms that infer that it is a gift.

HAL should rigidly demand that anyone wanting to lower or remove it must detail exactly what service(s) failed to satisfy them, and stop accepting any other lame excuses.

Maybe it should be a more difficult process for the passengers. Don't allow the Front Desk clerks to do it, but require a meeting with someone higher up, like the Chief Housekeeper or Assistant ... who should make the complaint line move as slowly as possible! :D And don't allow it at cruise end if there have been no attempts during the cruise to get alleged unsatisfactory service corrected!

[cruz chic]

[quote name='startwin']I'm going to disagree with the general assumption here (not just by your post, Lisa, there are others) that it is people who scrape together the cruise fare that ask to have gratuities removed. I have been standing in line at the front desk watching and listening to people I know are "well-heeled" demanding that the HSC be removed. I have had to listen to some of these same people bragging about how many cruises they take a year and how many countries they have visited. And yet it seems routine for them to remove the tips.

Personally, I save hard for my cruises especially now in retirement and on a "fixed income" - somewhat scraping together the fare. And in recent years, I am very careful to budget my spending. What I spend onboard, or not as the case may be, is no one else's business. The cruise contract does not contain any clause requiring a certain amount to be spent on board the ship.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it's not just people struggling with a budget. I once had a couple at my dining table that removed their HSC because they were upset with Hal about a shorex they didn't like so they removed the HSC:rolleyes:. These folks were in a suite. They went into great detail about how anyone can remove the HSC so I bet they did it often. I hope karma comes back and bites those people hard.

[MadManOfBethesda]

[quote name='kazu'] Let's put this in perspective - hotels don't object if you bring wine to your room to consume there - and yes, they too make money from selling in their lounges. The difference with a hotel is that you have a choice where to go and have a meal or a drink. [/quote]

Yes, let's put it into perspective. People don't walk out of their hotel rooms with wine in their hands and take it into hotel or other city restaurants to drink at dinner so that they don't have to pay for a glass. They also don't walk out of their hotel rooms with drinks in hand and then walk into a hotel or city bar or lounge in order to save on their bar bills. Yet, I have never - - - repeat, never - - - been on a HAL cruise where I didn't observe passengers doing that very same thing.

And, please, spare me the posts from others stating that you only drink in your room or take bottles to the MDR and pay the corkage fee. I have no doubt that there are plenty of ethical passengers who do so. However, that does not negate the fact that there are plenty of passengers who do as I described.

[sail7seas]

[quote name='jtl513']

<snip>
Maybe it should be a more difficult process for the passengers. Don't allow the Front Desk clerks to do it, but require a meeting with someone higher up, like the Chief Housekeeper or Assistant ... who should make the complaint line move as slowly as possible! :D And don't allow it at cruise end if there have been no attempts during the cruise to get alleged unsatisfactory service corrected![/quote]


[B] I really like the spirit of what you are saying but having the Chief Housekeeper or Assistant spend so much time dealing with those who want HSC removed, likely will lead to some service complaints. They don't have the spare time to be spent doing that. Their spending time on complaint lines takes them from other work that will suffer.

The ones that irk me are those who 'suffer in silence' their whole cruise and last day make their complaint known when they request removal of HSC. The goal, one would think, is to have the best cruise possible. If you don't tell them you have a situation you want addressed, how can they know you have a complaint and do something about it? It starts to look like all the complainer wants at that point is 'compensation'..... darn but I hate that word. If they wanted the defect corrected and that was all, they would have spoken up a lot sooner.

[/B]

[startwin]

[quote name='jtl513'][B]The HSC is not a tip or gratuity. I[/B]t is a charge for service rendered, and we should stop using the terms that infer that it is a gift.

HAL should rigidly demand that anyone wanting to lower or remove it must detail exactly what service(s) failed to satisfy them, and stop accepting any other lame excuses.

Maybe it should be a more difficult process for the passengers. Don't allow the Front Desk clerks to do it, but require a meeting with someone higher up, like the Chief Housekeeper or Assistant ... who should make the complaint line move as slowly as possible! :D And don't allow it at cruise end if there have been no attempts during the cruise to get alleged unsatisfactory service corrected![/quote]

Directly from HAL's website:

[B]Is There A Hotel Service Charge (Gratuity/Tip)[/B]?

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. This includes those crew members who serve you directly, such as Dining Room wait staff and the stewards who service your stateroom each day. There are also many others who support their efforts whom you may never meet, such as galley and laundry staff. To ensure that the efforts of all of our crew members are recognized and rewarded, a daily Hotel Service Charge is automatically added to each guest’s shipboard account.
The daily Hotel Service Charge for suites is US$12.00 per guest per day, and US$11.50 per guest per day for other staterooms. (The charges are subject to change without notice)
If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of each segment and/or voyage. The Hotel Service Charge is paid to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their compensation. A 15% Bar Service Charge is automatically added to bar charges and Dining Room wine purchases. In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent with customary local practices.

[RuthC]

[CENTER][quote name='jayjaycan']
No more chocolates on your pillow.
[/quote]

[FONT=Impact][SIZE=5][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Impact][SIZE=5][COLOR=#ff0000]Bite your tongue![/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Impact][SIZE=5][COLOR=#ff0000] :mad: :mad: :mad:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/CENTER]

[lka1012]

A point on the hotel comparison, most hotels, especially those with bars and/or restaurants only allow items purchased in the hotel bar/restaurant to be consumed in the hotel lobby/common areas. Anything you wish to consume in your room, fine, but only eat/drink in the lobby what you purchased there.