Why no Hawaii ships in the summer?

[sonnenschein]

Hello sonnenschein,

 

My wife and I met on the MS Berlin in September 1955 during hurricane Ione while sailing from Bremerhaven to New York. We were Fulbright students.

 

My wife is from Berlin, I am from Iowa.

 

We're sailing from LA to Hawaii over Thanksgiving this year, doing it for the second time. Last time it was on the Golden in 2009.

 

I'm not a navigator or travel agent, so I only know that a summer LA - AK (our son lives in Anchorage) - Hawaii - return to LA would for us be a real interesting itinerary.

 

Have a super trip from San Francisco.

Hi Berliner, sounds familiar, I sailed December 1961 on the SS United States from Bremerhaven to New York to start my new life in the U.S.My Hubby waited for me on the freezing dock and almost got frostbite, it was one of the coldest days just before Christmas. Say hello to your wife from me,happy sailing, Gloria

[cruisequeen4ever]

This would be my ideal cruise because I can usually only travel in the summer (due to being a teacher) and because we LOVED our Hawaii cruises for the length, destination, relaxation, warmth, and ability to sail roundtrip west coast. Hope Princess reads this thread and considers this as a viable summer cruise option!

[BruceMuzz]

Capitalism 101

 

It's all about the money.

 

We have a winner.

Absolutely correct.

It is ALWAYS about the money.

 

Where do cruise ships make money?

Onboard spending ONLY.

 

Where do cruise ships make more money?

On itineraries with very expensive shore excursions; Alaska, Asia, and Europe.

 

Where do cruise ships lose money?

Mexican Riviera and Hawaii are the biggest money losers. The average passenger on these routes seems to have arms that are too short to reach his pockets or his wallet.

 

Where do cruise ships lose even more money?

On itineraries that require many sea days burning lots of expensive low-sulphur fuel; California and Hawaii.

 

A ship sailing half full in Alaska makes more profit than a full ship sailing to Hawaii or Mexico.

[gillianrose]

Tropical Storm Flossie threatens 'life and property' on Hawaii (maybe that's why summertime is not the best time to go to Hawaii)...

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/29/19749826-tropical-storm-flossie-threatens-life-and-property-in-hawaii?lite

[gillianrose]

A ship sailing half full in Alaska makes more profit than a full ship sailing to Hawaii or Mexico.

 

Where did you get this "statistic?"

 

Hawaii has lots of shore excursions while the ship is in the islands and there is a huge expanse of water between California and Hawaii where there is lots of onboard time in which to buy drinks, gamble, etc.

[OCruisers]

Tropical Storm Flossie threatens 'life and property' on Hawaii (maybe that's why summertime is not the best time to go to Hawaii)...

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/29/19749826-tropical-storm-flossie-threatens-life-and-property-in-hawaii?lite

 

:eek: Not many would wish to be in Hawaii for the next several days!

 

LuLu

~~~

[gillianrose]

:eek: Not many would wish to be in Hawaii for the next several days!

 

LuLu

~~~

 

Right. Maybe that's another reason why Hawaii is not a prime destination for cruises across the Pacific during hurricane/tropical storm season.

[Cruise Junky]

Right. Maybe that's another reason why Hawaii is not a prime destination for cruises across the Pacific during hurricane/tropical storm season.

 

It's quite rare that a tropical storm hits Hawaii.

[gillianrose]

But they can be fierce. Remember Hurricane Iniki that hit Kauai? That was in early September 1992. It cost almost $2 billion dollars and six people died.

[Cruise Junky]

But they can be fierce. Remember Hurricane Iniki that hit Kauai? That was in early September 1992. It cost almost $2 billion dollars and six people died.

 

I remember very well. Kauai got smucked. But that goes to show you how distant the major storms are. That was the last one that did major damage.

[Jim Avery]

Gillianrose is correct in stating that weather also plays a part in the lack of Hawaii itineraries in the summer. Not only is it hot and rainy that time of year in Hawaii, as stated, it is the Hurricane Season for the Eastern Pacific. You do not have to be very close to a tropical system to suffer rough seas. Most cruisers would not well tolerate a long rolling passage to Hawaii. Modern cruise ships just are not made to take the seas like liners of yesterday. Queen Mary 2 is the exception.:D

[iceleven]

Yet dozens of cruise ships go out every single week during hurricane season (5+ months every year) in the Caribbean, Mexico and up and down the east coast. Itineraries are changed, excursions are cancelled across several fleets.

 

Since the crossings are two weeks in duration, it would only add an additional 8-10 round trip crossings from either LA or SF during the summer.

 

And to use the excuse that it is hot in Hawaii during the summer, what about the Caribbean islands and Mexico? I've never been more miserable with the heat than in St. Thomas, Barbados, Belize, etc.

 

I agree that it all comes down to the dollar but I have my doubts that it has anything to do with the weather especially in light that Hawaii does not get hit with storms all that frequently.

[caribill]

Yet dozens of cruise ships go out every single week during hurricane season (5+ months every year) in the Caribbean, Mexico and up and down the east coast. Itineraries are changed, excursions are cancelled across several fleets.

 

 

Not easy to change itinerary to other ports, excursions, etc. if the ship needs to bypass Hawaii due to weather.

 

However, I agree that weather is not the reason for a lack of Princess cruises to Hawaii in the summer.

[Cruisin' Chick]

It's quite rare that a tropical storm hits Hawaii.

 

I remember very well. Kauai got smucked. But that goes to show you how distant the major storms are. That was the last one that did major damage.

 

I heard a news report yesterday that said there hasn't been anything stronger hitting Hawaii than a tropical depression since Iniki hit in '93.

[SOLIVITA LADY]

Aloha Kakou,

You know, Leialoha and I are wondering the same thing! :) We have always maintained that one ship, (instead of the usual two for Princess) would be popular doing this run all of the year. While it can be a tad warm here in the islands, (well, not compared to the rest of the country these days) I believe many people would enjoy it.

 

Malama Pono,

Dave

(of Elua)

http://www.eluaworld.blogspot.com

 

I know we would enjoy taking the grandchildren on a cruise to Hawaii in the summer. We have done a land trip with the oldest one (now 13 y/o) a couple of years ago and he keeps asking to go back as he just loved the islands. A cruise would be a lot cheaper than airfare and the cost of food/hotels in the islands and the immersion of the Hawaiian culture you offer on board ship would certainly be enjoyed by all of us.

 

Jackie

[PrincessLuver]

Right. Maybe that's another reason why Hawaii is not a prime destination for cruises across the Pacific during hurricane/tropical storm season.

 

We rarely have serious storms in Hawaii. As a matter of fact Flossie should have been called Fluffy.....our hotels have very high occupancy rates even in the summer and on HI Island our highest temperature in the summer might get to 87/89 degrees with trade winds....not exactly a hot summer day compared to most places on the mainland in summertime....we do not have gambling of any kind in the islands so this could impact cruise ship profits....

[runnerodb83]

Where do cruise ships lose money?

Mexican Riviera and Hawaii are the biggest money losers. The average passenger on these routes seems to have arms that are too short to reach his pockets or his wallet.

 

A ship sailing half full in Alaska makes more profit than a full ship sailing to Hawaii or Mexico.

 

SO which makes less money? Mexico or Hawaii. It would appear Hawaii does by princess throwing as many as 3 ships there this fall.

 

Im wondering why cruiselines havent gone to mexico, purchased a big chunk of land in Baja, and turn it into a private area with a wall and security force. I would imagine the private islands in the carribean make a good chunk of money because its all "on board revenue" and the ship doesn't have to burn nearly as much fuel as a day moving at sea.

[CantanaLobo]

Im wondering why cruiselines havent gone to mexico, purchased a big chunk of land in Baja, and turn it into a private area with a wall and security force. I would imagine the private islands in the carribean make a good chunk of money because its all "on board revenue" and the ship doesn't have to burn nearly as much fuel as a day moving at sea.

 

I'd hazard a guess that they think they'd get a bigger ROI investing that money elsewhere. Maybe something in the western Caribbean. Or building cabanas and stuff on an existing private island. Or building more infrastructure in Alaska.

[runnerodb83]

I'd hazard a guess that they think they'd get a bigger ROI investing that money elsewhere. Maybe something in the western Caribbean. Or building cabanas and stuff on an existing private island. Or building more infrastructure in Alaska.

 

Good points

[BruceMuzz]

SO which makes less money? Mexico or Hawaii. It would appear Hawaii does by princess throwing as many as 3 ships there this fall.

 

Im wondering why cruiselines havent gone to mexico, purchased a big chunk of land in Baja, and turn it into a private area with a wall and security force. I would imagine the private islands in the carribean make a good chunk of money because its all "on board revenue" and the ship doesn't have to burn nearly as much fuel as a day moving at sea.

 

Any cruise starting on the US West Coast has lower profits than anywhere else in the world.

The seasonal West Coast repositioning cruises are the biggest losers of all.

 

Mexican Riviera itineraries have less profit than any other standard itineraries.

 

Hawaii is a very close second place. Between sailing from California with the outrageously expensive low-sulphur fuel, burning a half million dollars worth of regular fuel to get to Hawaii, then sailing in Hawaii on the ridiculously expensive low-sulphur fuel (and closing the casino in Hawaii to make it even more painful), there is very little reason to even try.

 

The cruise lines have already purchased and developed private ports in Mexico - but not on the West Coast. Between California's crazy environmental laws and the extremely frugal people who cruise from California, the cruise lines cannot make any money on that coast.

 

Carnival has already developed Costa Maya port in the Yucatan and NCL recently bought property nearby to develop their own cruise port.

[Holomoku]

Gillianrose is correct in stating that weather also plays a part in the lack of Hawaii itineraries in the summer. Not only is it hot and rainy that time of year in Hawaii, as stated, it is the Hurricane Season for the Eastern Pacific. You do not have to be very close to a tropical system to suffer rough seas. Most cruisers would not well tolerate a long rolling passage to Hawaii. Modern cruise ships just are not made to take the seas like liners of yesterday. Queen Mary 2 is the exception.:D

 

It is not the weather that is the problem, it is Hawaii itself. Did you know that we are ranked 50th in friendliness to business. Not only would the casino be closed but the state tacks on a tax on all drinks served on the ship when in port. This is a fairly new tax, but was in place when we came in on the Star in April. I would guess the port fees are much higher here also? Why go where they (the State Gov't.) looks at any business like it is just a cash cow.:rolleyes:

[gillianrose]

Wwe do not have gambling of any kind in the islands so this could impact cruise ship profits....

 

Maybe, but I don't gamble, and I spend plenty on cruises. Cruise lines make money off of me. No casino needed.

[gillianrose]

Gillianrose is correct in stating that weather also plays a part in the lack of Hawaii itineraries in the summer. Not only is it hot and rainy that time of year in Hawaii, as stated, it is the Hurricane Season for the Eastern Pacific. You do not have to be very close to a tropical system to suffer rough seas. Most cruisers would not well tolerate a long rolling passage to Hawaii. Modern cruise ships just are not made to take the seas like liners of yesterday. Queen Mary 2 is the exception.:D

 

Thanks, Jim. We don't like queasy. Does the QM2 ever do trans-Pacific cruises?

[PrincessLuver]

Gillianrose is correct in stating that weather also plays a part in the lack of Hawaii itineraries in the summer. Not only is it hot and rainy that time of year in Hawaii, as stated, it is the Hurricane Season for the Eastern Pacific. You do not have to be very close to a tropical system to suffer rough seas. Most cruisers would not well tolerate a long rolling passage to Hawaii. Modern cruise ships just are not made to take the seas like liners of yesterday. Queen Mary 2 is the exception.:D

 

It is much hotter and rainier in the Caribbean, Mexico and Florida then Hawaii during the summertime. Each island has a wet side and a dry side and on our island the Kailua Kona side gets about 10 inches of rain a year and the HIlo side 125 inches.

 

There are really other things at work then just the weather.

 

A 1920 law known as the Jones Act, passed to protect American maritime interests, requires that any ship leaving a U.S. port can only return to that port after it has visited a foreign country, unless the ship is “American flagged.” Other cruise companies, with their ships registered in the Bahamas, for example, can pass through Hawaii, but they must make an extended two-day journey out to the nearest foreign country before returning. This means steaming for two days, or 1,100 miles, to Fanning Island in the Republic of Kiribati , before returning to Hawaii. This is not an efficient or practical option if the goal is year-round, weekly Hawaii cruising

 

Also, Hawaii has strong environmental laws against cruise ship pollution and does enforce them.

 

Sometimes during the year Kailua Kona has a cruise ship in port everyday of the week.

 

IMHO, our weather tends to be mild year round by many standards so I do not think that is the sole reason ships do not come to Hawaii on a regular basis. :)

[Cruisin' Chick]

It is much hotter and rainier in the Caribbean, Mexico and Florida then Hawaii during the summertime. Each island has a wet side and a dry side and on our island the Kailua Kona side gets about 10 inches of rain a year and the HIlo side 125 inches.

 

There are really other things at work then just the weather.

 

A 1920 law known as the Jones Act, passed to protect American maritime interests, requires that any ship leaving a U.S. port can only return to that port after it has visited a foreign country, unless the ship is “American flagged.” Other cruise companies, with their ships registered in the Bahamas, for example, can pass through Hawaii, but they must make an extended two-day journey out to the nearest foreign country before returning. This means steaming for two days, or 1,100 miles, to Fanning Island in the Republic of Kiribati , before returning to Hawaii. This is not an efficient or practical option if the goal is year-round, weekly Hawaii cruising

 

Also, Hawaii has strong environmental laws against cruise ship pollution and does enforce them.

 

Sometimes during the year Kailua Kona has a cruise ship in port everyday of the week.

 

IMHO, our weather tends to be mild year round by many standards so I do not think that is the sole reason ships do not come to Hawaii on a regular basis. :)

 

Actually it's the PVSA (often called the Jones Act, which is more about cabotage) and it was created in 1886. It's the reason that the ships who are going round trip out of LA, SF, or San Diego make a stop in Ensenada.