My view on Specialty restaurants

[cruisenfever]

At the newly revamped Chops on the Navigator there are additional items that you pay extra for. Aged beef is one of those.

 

a few people have reported that there are one or two menu items in Chops that incur an additional up charge on top of the cover fee, such as ordering Kobe beef as opposed to the regular offering, or Beluga caviar as opposed to domestic.

 

in other words it is quite easy to avoid paying any extra if you don't want to.

Thanks for the update. I had no idea.

[LMaxwell]

The market will dictate. It would still likely be a better or at least comparable value to land based vacations. My biggest lamentation with cruising is that it has been a "one size fits all" option for so long. If I go stay at a beach resort somewhere, some might choose to eat at a casual restaurant by the pool, while others might go to a gourmet establishment with a grand degustation menu. Why must cruising continue to be an exception to this?

 

Why must cruising be just like a land based resort? It is a different product offering a different experience. I understand they are compared and cross-shopped quite heavily; but why have them be such similar experiences? If you don't have a differentiation in the market you are likely only to be chosen if you are the cheapest. There are better ways to make your mark than lowest price.

[LetsGetWet!]

I understand and agree with the OP. I think a lot of people are missing the forest for the trees and arguing subjective things like they like this or they like that. OP is saying...what if the medium-long term model is to keep base fares down and make EVERYTHING optional and upcharge; how would you feel about cruising.

 

I would not enjoy cruising like that. Cruising used to, and to a great degree still does, represent an inclusive vacation experience. Making all food pay as you go always makes it feel like they are in my wallet. Some people may not care, but when that is going on I find it more difficult to relax, always mentally tabulating and budgeting.

 

I don't think anyone that has started cruising in the last 10 years could really understand. That's not a knock; but if you didn't experience it, you didn't experience it.

 

I realize that there is a broad range of opinions on this, you happened to articulate mine quite well.

 

I have mentioned on a couple of other threads - have read a couple of articles recently from professional travel writers following the cruise industry who have said exactly that - the industry is moving slowly towards a complete ala carte model - in steps calculated carefully not to alienate the clientele the way it would if it was done all at once. More up charged venues, more expensive up charged venues, additional fees for certain items above the upcharge, additional fees for certain items in the MDR. Many small steps, all leading in the same direction. Just like the story of the frog in boiling water - throw him in boiling water & he'll immediately jump out. Slowly raise the water temperature to boiling & he doesn't notice until he's a boiled frog!

 

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[pinkrosesdeb]

I like the option of eating where I want. So, the extra price doesn't bother us really. We just did a land vacay and the cost of food ON TOP of the cost of the room is still far more than we pay for our cruise and we never cruise without at least a balcony. If I can sail in a balcony cabin for $100 pp per day, I don't think it is outrageous to pay a little more for food. I think the value of a cruise is still really great compared to other options out there. JMHO

[nopulitzer]

I realize that there is a broad range of opinions on this, you happened to articulate mine quite well.

 

I have mentioned on a couple of other threads - have read a couple of articles recently from professional travel writers following the cruise industry who have said exactly that - the industry is moving slowly towards a complete ala carte model - in steps calculated carefully not to alienate the clientele the way it would if it was done all at once. More up charged venues, more expensive up charged venues, additional fees for certain items above the upcharge, additional fees for certain items in the MDR. Many small steps, all leading in the same direction. Just like the story of the frog in boiling water - throw him in boiling water & he'll immediately jump out. Slowly raise the water temperature to boiling & he doesn't notice until he's a boiled frog!

 

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Then they would "up charge" for the boiled frog!

[Blue Darter]

I have been around for a while on these forums and cruised a few times before. I have an upcoming trip on the navigator which now has 4 specialty dining restaurants. You know what I think of this? Its utter crap.

 

Hear me out:

 

I'm not saying that the MDR will depreciate in value.

I'm not saying the food in the specialty restaurants isn't good or even "worth it."

I'm not saying that I can't afford specialty dining.

 

What I am saying is that cruises a long time ago had drinks included with the cruise and slowly that was taken away. Now the same thing is starting to happen with the food. Even Chop's grill has an extra upcharge now on top of the 35$. Understand that it is GREAT to have other options, but for those of you in full support of this just remember that options are great until they become your only choice. And people flocking to these "upcharge" restaurants is like telling the cruise lines that if they took away free food in the MDR they would benefit tremendously.

 

I'm not saying its not ok to get excited about restaurants and again I admit that some of them have great value, but what if I told you the trend is to phase out the MDR and make everything ala cart? Would you stop going to the specialty restaurants to avoid that fate?

 

Finally, it just feels wrong to leave perfectly good food at the MDR in order to go pay 35$ for slightly better quality food. I'd consider myself rich, but I'm just not hoighty toighty like that.

 

Kirk Douglas would be very disappointed in you!

[leisuretraveler223]

Why must cruising be just like a land based resort? It is a different product offering a different experience. I understand they are compared and cross-shopped quite heavily; but why have them be such similar experiences? If you don't have a differentiation in the market you are likely only to be chosen if you are the cheapest. There are better ways to make your mark than lowest price.

 

Cruising is TOTALLY unique from a land based resort. And they could switch to an ENTIRELY pay-as-you-go concept where not so much as a morsel of food, a drop of milk, or a single bit of entertainment was included, and it would still be VASTLY unique.

 

I think you're lamentation is a bit shortsighted. There are true all-inclusive resorts all over the place. If that's what you're after, you might want to look at one. But lamenting that cruising is EXPANDING it's options and services to accommodate those of us that are looking for more is frankly unrealistic.

 

I wouldn't cruise RCI at all if they didn't offer the premium options they do. And let's be realistic- who is more attractive as a profit driver for them? Someone like myself that is happy to pay more for an enhanced experience, or someone who generates very little extra revenue once on board? They will continue to expand their offerings as they do what ANY company does, and look for ways to attract more customers and generate more revenue.

 

I know a lot of people agree with your concerns, and I don't mean this in a dismissive way, but CLEARLY that group is not large enough or compelling enough to stop this trend. The day they have trouble filling their ships is the day they will need to rethink these practices.

[LetsGetWet!]

The market will dictate. It would still likely be a better or at least comparable value to land based vacations. My biggest lamentation with cruising is that it has been a "one size fits all" option for so long. If I go stay at a beach resort somewhere, some might choose to eat at a casual restaurant by the pool, while others might go to a gourmet establishment with a grand degustation menu. Why must cruising continue to be an exception to this?

 

Cruising is hardly just an exception to the norm. All-inclusive beach resorts make up a significant percentage of the warm weather land-based vacations available to the traveler.

 

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[leisuretraveler223]

Cruising is hardly just an exception to the norm. All-inclusive beach resorts make up a significant percentage of the warm weather land-based vacations available to the traveler.

 

I wasn't talking about all-inclusives (after all, cruising isn't all inclusive). I've never objected to my fellow resort guests choosing to have a nicer dinner that I have. I haven't looked down at my pool mates who are happy with a bud light while I'm drinking a fresh mojito. Why should cruising represent an egalitarian society of 3,000 people all happy with the exact same standards?

 

If that were truly the case, then we should get rid of suites. Heck, let's get rid of balconies. If one person is okay with an interior room, everyone should be.

 

Also, while there are a LOT of all-inclusive beach resorts, by percentage, they represent a very small portion of the available accommodations.

Edited February 15, 2014 by leisuretraveler223

[janetz]

The food in the MDR should be excellent, as included in the price of the cruise.

[leisuretraveler223]

The food in the MDR should be excellent, as included in the price of the cruise.

 

That's a great sentiment. But when it was consistently "excellent", cruises were (relatively) a lot more expensive.

 

I believe the cruise lines are maximizing "value" with their included options. Is the food excellent? Rarely. Is it terrible? Hardly ever. And if it is, that's a mistake that can and should be easily corrected.

 

Perhaps if I were in a different situation- married, kids, on more of a budget, I would have different expectations for my vacation. Then, I might be very happy with a serviceable meal for the price I'm paying.

 

The old saying still rings true: You get what you pay for.

[mom says]

Then they would "up charge" for the boiled frog!

 

Nah. Tastes like chicken. Who wants to pay an up charge for chicken?

[Happy ks]

This same old argument has been going on for years now. Ever since specialty restaurants came on the scene on cruise ships. Like any other argument, there will never be agreement. Cruising has changed over the years, yes, but look at the difference in ships, at the difference at who is going on cruises. Years ago, it was only the elite who could afford to cruise.

 

My husband cruised prior to us meeting, back in the late 70's. Our first cruise was in 1998. Before we left, he told me not to expect gourmet food, it was more like Marie Calendars. On our first cruise, we purchased soft drink options for our kids. So more than 30 years ago, the food wasn't all that great, I think people romanticize about the old days. At least 16 years ago they were charging extra for soft drinks.

 

In 2002 we had our first experience with specialty dining onboard a cruise ship, we've done that on every cruise since, if it was available. Well worth the money spent, to us. We did not, however, find the soft drink packages to be worth it for our kids, they never drank enough to substantiate the cost. Usually they only had a soft drink at dinner and perhaps one by the pool. Otherwise they drank juice, water, milk.

 

Just like gambling, buying souvenirs, etc…it is a choice. A person could go on a cruise and besides gratuities, never spend another dime. I'm happy to have choices.

[Paulette3028]

.....

I don't think anyone that has started cruising in the last 10 years could really understand. That's not a knock; but if you didn't experience it, you didn't experience it.

 

DH and I are one of those cruisers who only started cruising 10 years ago. Our first cruise was in February 2014 on Navigator. What a way to be introduced. We were in love with cruising when we got home. We went with 3 other couples that we had not seen much in almost a year -- we had relocated and this was a friends get together. They had all cruised before. We just followed their lead.

 

As I look back, things have changed. On that cruise there was an outlandish midnight buffet -- I could not partake, I was still stuffed from the late dinner seating. I have learned over the 14 cruises we have taken since, that late seating isn't for us....so we do the early seating -- we won't do MTD. I like knowing I can just wake in and have my seat at my awaiting table. I love meeting people and I meet new ones each cruise.

 

Early dinner also we have found gives us more time to enjoy the evening activities and have more night -time fun. I amazes us how late we stay us even after a busy excursion. We have never, unless WE wanted to have had a 2.5 hour dinner in the MDR. Even with our 8 friends on our first cruise and all the catch up conversation, dinner was 60-80 minutes. Enough time, but not too much. We all had other things we wanted to do. Even my most recent cruises, Nov 2013 and July 2013....dining room experience was great.

 

As we continued to cruise, sometimes with friends and sometimes just the 2 of us (yet we always requested a dinner table of 6-8), we realized there was little the specialty restaurants offered that I could not get either in the MDR or at the buffet. So we don't do it. Our choice of course. On our upcoming Allure, we probably will try Izumi (Japanese). Not the typical food fare from the dining room. And like at home, we do go grocery shopping for the week, and still go out to eat once a week.

 

We are not big drinkers (alcohol or soda drinks), so having to pay for drinks is fine. Although I am NOT in agreement with charging for soda. I would not want to support someone else's alcohol drinking with my cabin cost increasing.

 

We shop, we enjoy excursions (which we always book through the cruise line -- to assure the ship has to wait for us, if some delay in our return).

 

We love the ships (activities, entertainment, fun and food), the itineraries (even if we return to a port on a subsequent cruise) and the rest.

 

Surely things will keep changing, as long as I have the options I like open to ME and DH.

[mom says]

The food in the MDR should be excellent, as included in the price of the cruise.

 

That's a great sentiment. But when it was consistently "excellent", cruises were (relatively) a lot more expensive.

 

I believe the cruise lines are maximizing "value" with their included options. Is the food excellent? Rarely. Is it terrible? Hardly ever. And if it is, that's a mistake that can and should be easily corrected.

 

Perhaps if I were in a different situation- married, kids, on more of a budget, I would have different expectations for my vacation. Then, I might be very happy with a serviceable meal for the price I'm paying.

 

The old saying still rings true: You get what you pay for.

 

I have to agree with Janetz. The cruise lines do not advertise adequate or serviceable meals in their MDRs. They are advertising excellent cuisine. They should, therefore provide it. I would be quite willing to pay more for my cruise in order to have it. I hate that all of the mass market cruise lines have taken to pandering to the cheapest cruisers and expect those who expect a better class of experience to subsidize them. Perhaps this just means that I need to start sailing on other lines.

[Thetrail]

I have been around for a while on these forums and cruised a few times before. I have an upcoming trip on the navigator which now has 4 specialty dining restaurants. You know what I think of this? Its utter crap.

 

Hear me out:

 

I'm not saying that the MDR will depreciate in value.

I'm not saying the food in the specialty restaurants isn't good or even "worth it."

I'm not saying that I can't afford specialty dining.

 

What I am saying is that cruises a long time ago had drinks included with the cruise and slowly that was taken away. Now the same thing is starting to happen with the food. Even Chop's grill has an extra upcharge now on top of the 35$. Understand that it is GREAT to have other options, but for those of you in full support of this just remember that options are great until they become your only choice. And people flocking to these "upcharge" restaurants is like telling the cruise lines that if they took away free food in the MDR they would benefit tremendously.

 

I'm not saying its not ok to get excited about restaurants and again I admit that some of them have great value, but what if I told you the trend is to phase out the MDR and make everything ala cart? Would you stop going to the specialty restaurants to avoid that fate?

 

Finally, it just feels wrong to leave perfectly good food at the MDR in order to go pay 35$ for slightly better quality food. I'd consider myself rich, but I'm just not hoighty toighty like that.

No one is forcing you or anyone else to a specialty restaurant and have you checked out the MDR lately???? They are almost always FULL each and every night. By the way way your quote...."I'd consider myself rich, but I'm not hoighty toighty like that".:rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes: Really, honestly, not only does anyone care or not weather you are rich or poor on these boards, your quote was IMHO tacky and crass.

[Cruising89143]

I have been around for a while on these forums and cruised a few times before. I have an upcoming trip on the navigator which now has 4 specialty dining restaurants. You know what I think of this? Its utter crap.

 

Hear me out:

 

I'm not saying that the MDR will depreciate in value.

I'm not saying the food in the specialty restaurants isn't good or even "worth it."

I'm not saying that I can't afford specialty dining.

 

What I am saying is that cruises a long time ago had drinks included with the cruise and slowly that was taken away. Now the same thing is starting to happen with the food. Even Chop's grill has an extra upcharge now on top of the 35$. Understand that it is GREAT to have other options, but for those of you in full support of this just remember that options are great until they become your only choice. And people flocking to these "upcharge" restaurants is like telling the cruise lines that if they took away free food in the MDR they would benefit tremendously.

 

I'm not saying its not ok to get excited about restaurants and again I admit that some of them have great value, but what if I told you the trend is to phase out the MDR and make everything ala cart? Would you stop going to the specialty restaurants to avoid that fate?

 

Finally, it just feels wrong to leave perfectly good food at the MDR in order to go pay 35$ for slightly better quality food. I'd consider myself rich, but I'm just not hoighty toighty like that.

 

To each their own. I don't like dining in the MDR. I'm glad that we all have options. If specialty dining is not for you then stick to the MDR. Simple as that.

[JasonV1]

The mass market lines are merely providing options for those guests who have the money to spend. Just like with the beverage packages, which are most likely a bad deal (from a money standpoint) from most who buy them.

 

Is a junior suite really worth DOUBLE the fare (of my balcony) for my upcoming cruise on the Allure? Or is a grand suite on the same boat worth TRIPLE? The suites sell for those prices because people with money are willing to pay.

 

Personally, I'm happy for those on the boat who drop $2K+ PP in cabin fares, eat at the speciality restaurants daily, and buy tons of photos, shore excursions, and drink packages. Thanks to these people, my fare is probably less than it would be otherwise as I rarely spend that kind of money onboard (although I do go to at least 2 speciality restaurants per 7 day cruise, and have bought drink packages on and off).

 

I personally like the speciality restaurants as they give me an OPTIONAL dining experience. I rarely eat out anywhere fancy at home, and not really in the Celebrity demographic yet, so having these options is nice rather than to force me to pay a higher base fare.

 

 

 

I have been around for a while on these

forums and cruised a few times before. I have an upcoming trip on the navigator which now has 4 specialty dining restaurants. You know what I think of this? Its utter crap.

 

Hear me out:

 

I'm not saying that the MDR will depreciate in value.

I'm not saying the food in the specialty restaurants isn't good or even "worth it."

I'm not saying that I can't afford specialty dining.

 

What I am saying is that cruises a long time ago had drinks included with the cruise and slowly that was taken away. Now the same thing is starting to happen with the food. Even Chop's grill has an extra upcharge now on top of the 35$. Understand that it is GREAT to have other options, but for those of you in full support of this just remember that options are great until they become your only choice. And people flocking to these "upcharge" restaurants is like telling the cruise lines that if they took away free food in the MDR they would benefit tremendously.

 

I'm not saying its not ok to get excited about restaurants and again I admit that some of them have great value, but what if I told you the trend is to phase out the MDR and make everything ala cart? Would you stop going to the specialty restaurants to avoid that fate?

 

Finally, it just feels wrong to leave perfectly good food at the MDR in order to go pay 35$ for slightly better quality food. I'd consider myself rich, but I'm just not hoighty toighty like that.

[alfaeric]

It's interesting to see two things:

 

1) people don't seem to have a concept of inflation and value. Tell us how great it was to cruise +20 years ago, and totally ignore how much it cost and the REST of what you got. Food is one big thing, but so is cabin size and location. So many people have posted that they were spending roughly twice as much on an inside cabin as they are now for a balcony. Oil is the #1 cost of cruising by a wide margin, and oil is 5-10x what it was "in the day", as well.

 

2) people don't seem to understand that there is choice out there. I'm not talking about not going to the specialty restaurants, I'm talking that if you can afford #1's inflation, there are still a LOT of choices for that kind of cruising. Heck, if you want to pay a premium, be allowed to bring wine on, and still direct your money to RCCL, you can sail on Azamara. If you want a special meal prepared from ingredients that the chefs got at the port, you can do that, too.

 

RCCL made a choice of how to run their business. Based on their returns, and how full ships are, seems like it works pretty well. But nobody is forcing you to agree with that, and sail with them.

 

But if it makes people feel better to complain about stuff like this on an internet message board, ok.

[janice2348]

So true! My sister in law is booked on the Navigator and paying $499 per person for an interior cabin. I cannot believe that even covers the cruise line's cost especially when you factor out port charges. They have to make up for the rock bottom fares somewhere.

 

A family of four could cruise for a week for less than $2000 including transportation (if they were able to drive to the port), food and entertainment. That's pretty amazing.

 

I think they are trying to appeal to every person and every budget.

 

Sometimes we travel "cheap" and sometimes we go all out and we have been on 6 different lines, soon to be 7. I like having options.

We just paid $579 total pp for 6 night to Bermuda on Rccl for an interior. I have to cruise on a budget. I am happy to avoid the up charge restaurants. I am happy that we all have choices. You can make a cruise as individual as you like.

[leisuretraveler223]

We just paid $579 total pp for 6 night to Bermuda on Rccl for an interior. I have to cruise on a budget. I am happy to avoid the up charge restaurants. I am happy that we all have choices. You can make a cruise as individual as you like.

 

Well put! And I am sure that if there were no revenue streams like premium restaurants, then it wouldn't be possible to get that cruise for that price. Everybody wins this way!

[SpartacusMD]

The top four people above me did not read my original post carefully and it really speaks to your intelligence when you can't debate with someone without name calling and without even adressing the concerns themselves.

 

1.) You cannot say "to each his own" on topic that involves everyone. The discussion is not about whether or not specialty dining is worth it, I'm sure it is. The discussion is also not about whether or not its good to have options...as a matter of fact yes, yes it is very nice to have options. But before you start capitalizing the word OPTIONAL as if I'm some sort of ignorant moron who doesn't realize that I have options go read my original post and also the post of the person who made the boiled frog analogy. If the cruise industry stayed the same way it is now, I really wouldn't care. But myself and anyone out there with half a brain can and should think about the BIG PICTURE ie where this industry will be in 10-15 years. If you happen to be one of those people with the capacity to think forward (as do the CEOs of these cruise companies) then you should be worried about a completely ala cart experience.

 

2.)To the person who called me tacky for saying "I'm rich." I think its a important to state my financial background on a matter then involves extra fees...don't you think? This would be a much different discussion if I was lamenting the fact that I couldn't afford these higher specialty dining but other people could. Again, use your brain before posting.

 

3.)To the guy who said "complaining on a message board makes people feel better." First off this wasn't a complaint, it was a general observation meant to create a discussion, secondly, why don't you go ahead and never post again because pretty much everything on this forum involves exchange of information and ideas, 2 things you seem offended by.

 

Finally, I simply have no idea what to say to people who write things like "I'm happy to pay the extra money for better quality, cruising is so cheap nowadays anyways." Consider yourselves victims of the marketing plan of these multi-billion dollar companies because you're speaking the words they wish you to speak. That being said I'm not here to say that these companies are evil or that it doesn't make sense for them to do what they are doing. My issue is with people foaming at the mouth and succumbing so easily. In any consumer market, the consumer (that's you and me) control it. Do not so willingly give up the standard we have now. And guys, I don't need an economic lesson on inflation when you people don't seem to understand the concept yourselves. If the price of cruises has gone down relative to the worth of your money that has absolutely nothing to do with adding extra charges on the ship......why you seem to think those things are related is beyond me and I have a degree in economics.

Edited February 15, 2014 by SpartacusMD

[Paulette3028]

The top four people above me did not read my original post carefully and it really speaks to your intelligence when you can't debate with someone without name calling and without even adressing the concerns themselves.........

Finally, I simply have no idea what to say to people who write things like "I'm happy to pay the extra money for better quality, cruising is so cheap nowadays anyways." Consider yourselves victims of the marketing plan of these multi-billion dollar companies because you're speaking the words they wish you to speak. That being said I'm not here to say that these companies are evil or that it doesn't make sense for them to do what they are doing. My issue is with people foaming at the mouth and succumbing so easily. In any consumer market, the consumer (that's you and me) control it. Do not so willingly give up the standard we have now. And guys, I don't need an economic lesson on inflation when you people don't seem to understand the concept yourselves. If the price of cruises has gone down relative to the worth of your money that has absolutely nothing to do with adding extra charges on the ship......why you seem to think those things are related is beyond me and I have a degree in economics.

 

As with all companies, the board room will make the decisions that they feel bring them more profits (we all know that), and consumers do fall into the marketing caldron. You have a valid point when you say, your "issue is with people foaming at the mouth and succumbing so easily". The consumers choice is to 'not participate'. Either not cruise or not take part in something on board (example, specialty dining). Everyone has to as they see fit, and cruise industry marketing is doing a great job 'pushing/marketing the extra fee services'.

 

Let's face it the marketing aspect is 'splurge, its your vacation -- enjoy!'.

 

Consumers send a message via their wallet, and the wallet of the consumer is telling the cruise lines right now, they are 'on to something'.

[summersigh]

We don't see the big advantage to Chops over the MDR when, for example, last night here in our home town we had an angus beef filet & a lobster tail for $29.99.

We'll eat in the MDR - there's always something there we like - and save the extra $$$ for going out at home. For us, the specialty dining on a ship are an unnecessary expense. We'd rather spend on excursions :)

[SpartacusMD]

As with all companies, the board room will make the decisions that they feel bring them more profits (we all know that), and consumers do fall into the marketing caldron. You have a valid point when you say, your "issue is with people foaming at the mouth and succumbing so easily". The consumers choice is to 'not participate'. Either not cruise or not take part in something on board (example, specialty dining). Everyone has to as they see fit, and cruise industry marketing is doing a great job 'pushing/marketing the extra fee services'.

 

Let's face it the marketing aspect is 'splurge, its your vacation -- enjoy!'.

 

Consumers send a message via their wallet, and the wallet of the consumer is telling the cruise lines right now, they are 'on to something'.

 

Exactly!!!!

 

Now is the time that our choice counts. In 10 years, there might not be a choice except to boycott the whole cruise. So again, I don't blame anyone or any cruise line for doing what they do. If I was in that board room I'd make the very same decision if the consumer was eager to spend money. But I'm not in that board room and none of you here are. So when someone starts to up the price and lower/move the standard then it seems reasonable to have some amount of resistance to it rather than "HERE YOU GO TAKE MY MONEY, IM HAPPY TO PAY YOU BLABLABLA"