Should suite passengers get anything except their cabin.

[Chunky2219]

Have to say that I always enjoy your posts. Loved this one.:)

Many thanks. I'm obviously a man with too much time on my hands.

 

Well said! Exactly what prison are you warden over? :D

Did I mention Room 101?

 

 

.

[C 2 C]

I'd like to see your math,

 

I'm just curious how one would get an accurate guess of the area/volume taken up by the needs of the few rather than the many.

Would you not need to know the volume of storage space for food requirements of a dozen cabins vs the suite? How about cabin space of the staff required for providing meals, attendants at tables, cabin cleaning, wash room attendants butlers etc for the various cabin categories.

Simply trying to calculate the cost per square foot of actual cabin space only tells part of the story and would not help answer the OP's question.

 

I think that Suite Passengers deserve everything that Celebrity is willing to offer in order to fill the cabins at the price that they determine passengers are willing to pay.

There is a market for those suites and in many cases I believe that suite passengers will travel with friends and/or family occupying other cabin types.

Determining the price per square foot would also have to look at the impact of suite passengers in combination with those other cabins...

 

As Mark Twain once said: "There are lies, damn lies and statistics."

Edited July 13, 2014 by ~Cruisenut~

[cle-guy]

I'm just curious how one would get an accurate guess of the area/volume taken up by the needs of the few rather than the many.

Would you not need to know the volume of storage space for food requirements of a dozen cabins vs the suite? How about cabin space of the staff required for providing meals, attendants at tables, cabin cleaning, wash room attendants butlers etc for the various cabin categories.

Simply trying to calculate the cost per square foot of actual cabin space only tells part of the story and would not help answer the OP's question.

 

I think that Suite Passengers deserve everything that Celebrity is willing to offer in order to fill the cabins at the price that they determine passengers are willing to pay.

There is a market for those suites and in many cases I believe that suite passengers will travel with friends and/or family occupying other cabin types.

Determining the price per square foot would also have to look at the impact of suite passengers in combination with those other cabins...

 

All of these are good points, and I concur. The "back of house" savings though would be insignificant overall I think the labor makes most of its money on tips anyhow, the position of butler would just be turned into steward to cover those cabins. There must be 6 or so butlers per ship, people say a steward cleans 26 canons or so, so 2-3 butlers would be changed and then there are now 3 positions to eliminate actually. So i think these expenses generally will offset themselves, and don't think a new food storage facility would need built for the extra food carried for the extra passengers. They are made to hold food assuming 2 people in every cabin minimum anyway, and there are many cruses that don't sail with full head count due to the mix of singles versus trips and quads not quailing out.

 

My point in a nutshell is, if a cruise sails full and had 40 people wanting to sail in standard cabins that could not book because they were full, X would have made more money if they sold those 40 standard cabins versus the high end suites on the ship. About $30,000 or more just by losing the 2 Penthouses alone. If however, they sail with standard cabins open, then on those sailings, the demand wasn't there anyway, so may as well charge a lot more for the cabins that are there, the suites and make up some of the lost revenue. This is the essence of my "hotel within a hotel" comments.

 

It's a juggling game, to do a full analysis one needs to know how many sailings standard cabins sail unfilled, and who amy "turndowns" there were. At Marriott, they kept track of "turndowns" so we could budget accordingly thru the season and know if we turned a lot of folks away a particular week, we should raise rates for those periods of time next year for example.

 

One of the coolest things I've seen as an operations guy, is on some greek airline I flew, the "business class seats" had a crank that converted a 3 seat section to a 2 seat section by cranking the middle seat armrests together, thus expanding the economy seat width to a Business class seat width. So if all business seats didn't sell they could convert to economy and sell 3 economy seats.

 

If only cruise ships could do this with cabins....

[karl_nj]

One of the coolest things I've seen as an operations guy, is on some greek airline I flew, the "business class seats" had a crank that converted a 3 seat section to a 2 seat section by cranking the middle seat armrests together, thus expanding the economy seat width to a Business class seat width. So if all business seats didn't sell they could convert to economy and sell 3 economy seats.

 

If only cruise ships could do this with cabins....

 

Quantum of the Seas is moving in this direction:

 

 

They can sell this room as a 3 bedroom suite, a 2 bedroom suite and a regular balcony, or 2 balcony cabins and an inside.

[Balloon Man]

Yawn ... somebody please close this thread before we get to E=mC2 (that's Eclipse equals metres per cabin squared). Is Einstein a CC member from beyond the grave, I wonder?

 

Seriously, most of us don't care how, where or why cruise lines make profit. We just want to enjoy what we pay for. And if we don't want to pay for it we will go elsewhere. QED.

[Murray's Pop]

The previous post not withstanding, here is some interesting (to me at least) information. Forget on-board spending for a minute and let’s just look at cost per square foot and overall cruise cost. Use a 7 night Alaska cruise on the Solstice as the base.

Cost of an inside (Cat 12) stateroom for 2 passengers is $1879.10. These staterooms are 183 square feet. A total cost of $10.27 per Sq Ft.

 

Now let’s look at a Royal Suite for the same cruise. The cost for 2 passengers is $8379.10. The Royal Suite (with Verandah) is 748 square feet. This is a cost of $11.20 per Sq Ft (8.4% higher)

 

To me, a more meaningful comparison is the cruise fare generated from the equivalent space.

 

A Royal Suite (at 748 sq ft) occupies the same space as 4.087 Inside Staterooms (748/183=4.087). Given these figures, 1 Royal Suite generates $8379.10 of cruise only income, while 4.087 Inside Staterooms generates a total of $7,679.88. This is a difference of $699.22 more for the same basic space.

 

Now, will 8.17 passengers generate more on-board spending than 2 passengers? Probably, but you never know. But that is a different matrix anyway. Celebrity has already generated an additional $700 for the same basic occupancy space.

[karl_nj]

A Royal Suite (at 748 sq ft) occupies the same space as 4.087 Inside Staterooms (748/183=4.087). Given these figures' date=' 1 Royal Suite generates $8379.10 of cruise only income, while 4.087 Inside Staterooms generates a total of $7,679.88. This is a difference of $699.22 more for the same basic space.

 

Now, will 8.17 passengers generate more on-board spending than 2 passengers? Probably, but you never know. But that is a different matrix anyway. Celebrity has already generated an additional $700 for the same basic occupancy space.[/quote']

 

But inside cabins are priced where they are not because of square footage, but because they don't have a window or a balcony. This math would make sense if there was an Inside Royal Suite stateroom, but there isn't one.

[Balloon Man]

Snore (sorry). I promise not to look again.

[Adidas4fun]

I'd like to see your math, I showed mine. The Penthouse suites on M class ships displace 10 cabins, a mix of concierge and Family Verandas. I determined this based on using a website that lets you superimpose 2 ship decks on top of each other to be sure. I included the verandas.

 

I also included veranda cabins as the suites are displacing verandas, not insides and the ship contains far more cabins with verandas than insides and the question is would a standard cabin be better at generating revenue if it replaced the suite, and an inside isn't going to replace those cabins.

 

If you did add 3rd and 4th person to penthouse, their extra costs s only $750 or so per person, nor much different if at all different, than standard cabins.

 

But for the sake of argument, what is the revenue generated from 10 inside cabins on european Sailing on connie from Amsterdam to Turkey

Ffs, the maths is simple. I took fares by cabin class and divided them by the square foot of the cabin including veranda/balcony as already stated. Can you not read?

 

The income per sq foot consistently goes up until the ph. You can repeat your pseudo calculations all you want they are wrong.

[Chunky2219]

There's a famous quote about people "using statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post - more for support than illumination". I see rather too much of that in this thread. Let me just pick a bit of the low hanging fruit.............

 

1. Using the total area, including the veranda of an M-Class Penthouse is, as my Dad used to say, cooking it a bit too brown. It's just about the largest space of anything at sea and I speak from the happy position of having enjoyed a (heavily discounted) Cunard Q1.

 

2. While calculating how many inside cabins will fit in the same space, don't forget the corridor access to each cabin - you don't want the poor souls to have to have to lower themselves in from the floor above. You did think about capital costs, didn't you? Beds, bathrooms, walls and doors all cost money, even if we're not going to bother with the cost of windows and handrails. Remember to add back the cost of food, admin, theatre seats, laundry, staff, tender journeys, port charges and all the rest for the extra bodies as well.

 

3. I just checked up the details for our last X voyage in an RS (12 days, Auckland to Sydney, pre-paid gratuities). The on-board account for two of us - wine, additional speciality dining, tours, souvenir and gift spend, etc. etc. was a smidge over $2000. I don't want to tar everyone with the same brush, but I'd be hard pushed to see three average inside cabins clock up that sort of total. Not when I see folks filling up water bottles with orange juice and swiping tea bags in the buffet. I imagine not many people are going to book the tour to Pompeii three years running either. It's impressive, but once you've seen it ........

 

Here's the thing. People vote with their wallets. Some of them would rather have a good kick of the ball once every couple of years than cram into an inside cabin and have to rush up to grab a sun lounger every morning on three or four voyages a year. They expect to get service, food and real estate to match their spend. If it isn't available on a Celebrity ship, they can always try Cunard, Oceania, Seabourne or half a dozen others. If they did, the Celebrity economics would be worse as a result and therefore the malcontents would end up paying more.

 

If as a matter of principle, you prefer a common level of mediocrity and maximising the number of inside cabins, may I respectfully suggest trying Thomson Cruise or Island Cruises? Their bean counters are probably every bit as good as the ones at Celebrity, but they've decided to appeal to a different mind set and demographic.

 

But please, please, don't try to justify an addled point of view with the sort of maths that a nine year old could pick holes in. The bean counters have got you beat.

 

.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Chunky2219
typo

[Project_gal]

There's a famous quote about people "using statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post - more for support than illumination". I see rather too much of that in this thread. Let me just pick a bit of the low hanging fruit.............

 

... If as a matter of principle, you prefer a common level of mediocrity and maximising the number of inside cabins, may I respectfully suggest trying Thomson Cruise or Island Cruises? Their bean counters are probably every bit as good as the ones at Celebrity, but they've decided to appeal to a different mind set and demographic.

 

But please, please, don't try to justify an addled point of view with the sort of maths that a nine year old could pick holes in. The bean counters have got you beat.

 

.

 

We must meet on a cruise someday. Love the post. It had me chuckling after coming in from enjoying the sun our PH balcony - sorry, patio. On lovely days like this we like to sit out there imagining that the sound of the waterfall is the wake and we are on a cruise.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Project_gal

[PoppyandNana]

I am the original poster of this thread. I had no idea it would morf into the different directions it has.

 

My original thought and premise was quite simple: should suite passengers get more things outside the four walls of the luxurious accommodations their money buys. My read from all who responded was yes, they should get whatever priority anything the cruise line throws their way. So, taking that position it is therefore logical to state the following:

 

Ocean view passengers should get more than inside cabin folks

Balcony people should get more than OV and inside cabins.

 

Taking it to its logical conclusion not all OV and balcony passengers are created equal. By that I mean the various categories of OV are higher than the cat below them. Same with balconies, e.g. 1A balconies cost more than 2D's therefore people who pay more for their balcony should get more than those in lower categories. Remember, the direction here is that suite passengers pay more than balcony passengers therefore should get more ergo, balcony passengers pay more than OV therefore should get more. Same with OV.

 

I'll leave it up to the cruise lines and you experts to determine precisely what "extras" the respective groupings should be entitled to.

 

My own personal opinion is that the only group of passengers that should be entitled to any extras or perks are the Select, Classic, Elite and up passengers. Not having an Excel spreadsheet to back it up I feel that over time, those passengers return the most profit to the line.

Edited July 14, 2014 by PoppyandNana

[C-Dragons]

There's a famous quote about people "using statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post - more for support than illumination". I see rather too much of that in this thread. Let me just pick a bit of the low hanging fruit.............

 

 

But please, please, don't try to justify an addled point of view with the sort of maths that a nine year old could pick holes in. The bean counters have got you beat.

Thanks for being the voice of reason. ;)

[Yorkshire-Pudding]

PoppyandNana,

 

Surely the differentiation you seek between cabin categories is already achieved by the range of Captain Club points awarded for each night sailed?

 

Sent from my SM-T310 using Forums mobile app

[cle-guy]

The previous post not withstanding' date=' here is some interesting (to me at least) information. Forget on-board spending for a minute and let’s just look at cost per square foot and overall cruise cost. Use a 7 night Alaska cruise on the Solstice as the base.

Cost of an inside (Cat 12) stateroom for 2 passengers is $1879.10. These staterooms are 183 square feet. A total cost of $10.27 per Sq Ft.

 

Now let’s look at a Royal Suite for the same cruise. The cost for 2 passengers is $8379.10. The Royal Suite (with Verandah) is 748 square feet. This is a cost of $11.20 per Sq Ft (8.4% higher)

 

To me, a more meaningful comparison is the cruise fare generated from the equivalent space.

 

A Royal Suite (at 748 sq ft) occupies the same space as 4.087 Inside Staterooms (748/183=4.087). Given these figures, 1 Royal Suite generates $8379.10 of cruise only income, while 4.087 Inside Staterooms generates a total of $7,679.88. This is a difference of $699.22 more for the same basic space.

 

Now, will 8.17 passengers generate more on-board spending than 2 passengers? Probably, but you never know. But that is a different matrix anyway. Celebrity has already generated an additional $700 for the same basic occupancy space.[/quote']

 

But as a suite has a veranda, you have to at least compare a veranda cabin to it, as if the suite were to be replaced it would still replace it with a veranda cabin and not by an inside with no windows so to compare you'd have to do a midship veranda or concierge cabin not a cheap veranda or an inside. I also decided using square foot wash't the appropriate approach, since realistically you need a cabin that they would make and replace with (widthwise, depth not important), so that's why I superimposed actual cabins to determine the number that would replace the space.

[PoppyandNana]

PoppyandNana,

 

Surely the differentiation you seek between cabin categories is already achieved by the range of Captain Club points awarded for each night sailed?

 

Sent from my SM-T310 using Forums mobile app[/quote

 

Good Point

[Cruising89143]

 

My own personal opinion is that the only group of passengers that should be entitled to any extras or perks are the Select, Classic, Elite and up passengers. Not having an Excel spreadsheet to back it up I feel that over time, those passengers return the most profit to the line.

 

I'm sure that the cruise lines have done the math and don't agree with you for which I am happy.:)

[k9x8]

Let's throw something new into the mix of specious arguments.

What if I end up paying less for a Sky Suite than some paid for Aqua?

 

What if I snagged a "real" suite during a price drop and paid less than my neighbors?

 

That square foot thing becomes irrelevant when you consider the different fares paid for cabins in the same category.

[PoppyandNana]

I'm sure that the cruise lines have done the math and don't agree with you for which I am happy.:)

 

I agree with you that the cruise lines have done the math but what is your non-refutable evidence that they don't agree with me or is this just your conjuncture?

[Cruising89143]

I agree with you that the cruise lines have done the math but what is your non-refutable evidence that they don't agree with me or is this just your conjuncture?

 

The proof is you starting this thread.;)

[Beachdude]

So, taking that position it is therefore logical to state the following:

 

Ocean view passengers should get more than inside cabin folks

Balcony people should get more than OV and inside cabins.

 

I am struggling with your logic. A person that wants an ocean view rather than an inside cabin is paying extra for that extra. Same goes with the balcony. Are you saying they aren't getting enough?

 

My own personal opinion is that the only group of passengers that should be entitled to any extras or perks are the Select, Classic, Elite and up passengers. Not having an Excel spreadsheet to back it up I feel that over time, those passengers return the most profit to the line.

 

As a first time Celebrity Cruiser, I'm willing to pay suite prices to get suite extras. Are you suggesting taking all those extras away until I get the Elite status? Is Celebrity losing Elite cruisers because they don't get the suite extras?

 

I must admit I don't see your logic.

 

Burt

Edited July 14, 2014 by Beachdude

[teecee60]

No, just a lowly steerage class balcony.

 

At least Celebrity is still providing the oars that you will be using to help row. :eek:

 

They have to cut down on fuel costs... to pay for all those sweet suite perks. :p

[mellapl]

Thanks for being the voice of reason. ;)

 

Amen to that

[PoppyandNana]

The proof is you starting this thread.;)

 

 

What???? You really need to stay away from the funny cigarettes. You know what they say: "A mind is a terrible thing to waste".

[Cruising89143]

Many thanks. I'm obviously a man with too much time on my hands.

 

 

 

.

 

But it's time well spent!:D