This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[cruiseing marly]

I guess rules are only as good as they are enforced ! When bunkering they had signs on the promenade deck what about the balconies on the ship how will you enforce that ? I walked by the casino not open and a couple were in there smoking no enforcement that to smoke you must be gambling ! Guests also thought they could smoke in the casino without gambling also no enforcement !

[zerbot]

I have asthma and smoke is a major trigger for me. I would never pay money for a verandah that I might not be able to use, and I figure the cruise lines are weighing how much money is in the balance from those who are at odds over the smoking issue. Where I live they passed a smoking ban, and my father's friend, who is part owner of a bar, was convinced they were going to go out of business. Turns out they experienced a surge in business, as people who were driven out by the smoke returned as customers. I'm sure the cruise lines have carefully weighed whether they will get more money from people who will book verandahs if they're assured of not getting smoked off the verandah they paid money for, or from people who want to smoke on their verandah.

 

As a side note, some perfumes/colognes are also an issue for me. Floral is generally okay, it's usually the spicy/musky ones that will do me in. But I've never had anybody blow perfume or cologne in my face for pulling out my inhaler to deal with it. I too, would like to be allowed to "let live".

[OceanTraveller4ever]

"Light up a pipe, cigar or cigarette on a Millenium verandah and you're made to; "walk the plank" and all money lost! Go figure? Live and Let Live!"

 

It should be the same on all HAL ships.

 

Live and let live should apply to all the verandahs downwind from the inconsiderate polluter that smokes any garbage as cigarettes and cigars,

 

Sorry but smoking is no longer tolerated in public, anywhere.

 

Smoke at home, but leave it at home....period.

[Cantorindahouse]

Second hand smoke at 20+ knots triggers your asthma? Check with your pulmonary doctor, you may need more medication than an inhaler. Smoke still rises. Subsequently, how does anyone have smoke "blown in their face" when they are not on the same verandah? :rolleyes: There are still dividers between verandahs; right? Unless someone has their head stuck out over the rail and breathes in deep and is able to suck in smoke coming from below and, more than likely the smoke would not even reach a verandah above.:confused:

[Cantorindahouse]

[quote[sorry but smoking is no longer tolerated in public, anywhere.

 

Still tolerated on HAL's verandahs; eh:)

[cruz chic]

Second hand smoke at 20+ knots triggers your asthma? Check with your pulmonary doctor, you may need more medication than an inhaler. Smoke still rises. Subsequently, how does anyone have smoke "blown in their face" when they are not on the same verandah? :rolleyes: There are still dividers between verandahs; right? Unless someone has their head stuck out over the rail and breathes in deep and is able to suck in smoke coming from below and, more than likely the smoke would not even reach a verandah above.:confused:

 

They only people that think some disapates are smokers. It stinks, that's the issue.

[Cantorindahouse]

They only people that think some disapates are smokers. It stinks, that's the issue.

 

 

Oh, it's the odor, not a health issue. So, now we're back to perfumes and colognes; they really stink. Soap & water works for me but , for some people,they have to soak in artificial "enhancers" and apparently, there is no special place or section for them in a restaurant, lounge.:) Why not? Perhaps, all cruise lines should prohibit perfumes and colognes in restaurants. Who wants to have a good steak with the smell of Chanel #5, Old English and other unnatural scents wafting around. In the future people should be sure to take a small bottle of PooPourri to the "public" bathroom while aboard ship. :D It is curious how people feel smokers "pollute" the air. Have any of those same people EVER noticed the smoke pouring out of the cruise ship exhaust stacks/towers on all their multiple cruises? :confused:

Edited May 31, 2015 by Cantorindahouse

[sail7seas]

Second hand smoke at 20+ knots triggers your asthma? Check with your pulmonary doctor, you may need more medication than an inhaler. Smoke still rises. Subsequently, how does anyone have smoke "blown in their face" when they are not on the same verandah? :rolleyes: There are still dividers between verandahs; right? Unless someone has their head stuck out over the rail and breathes in deep and is able to suck in smoke coming from below and, more than likely the smoke would not even reach a verandah above.:confused:

 

Rather than repeat again and again what has already been expressed in this thread, you may wish to look back at many of those posts. They will answer your doubt about smoking blowing in our face and stinking up neighboring verandahs. Smokers do not smell how foul it is.

 

Have a glance through the thread and hopefully you will have a bit more understanding.

 

[OceanTraveller4ever]

I was impressed with HAL on my last cruise where all card tables in the casino were non smoking. I spoke to all dealers about it, and said they would not deal to players smoking stink in their faces.

So, it looks like the stinkers only have the slot machine play. An improvement.

 

Now if the all the stinkers would only put the cigs where the sun don't shine, that would be another improvement :)

[zerbot]

Second hand smoke at 20+ knots triggers your asthma? Check with your pulmonary doctor, you may need more medication than an inhaler. Smoke still rises. Subsequently, how does anyone have smoke "blown in their face" when they are not on the same verandah? :rolleyes: There are still dividers between verandahs; right? Unless someone has their head stuck out over the rail and breathes in deep and is able to suck in smoke coming from below and, more than likely the smoke would not even reach a verandah above.:confused:

 

Sometimes it depends on what else I've been exposed to that day; a whiff of smoke can be the last straw. Most of the time my asthma is under good control, but travel can be a pain, like the time we went to Lake Tahoe and it was so bone dry there was dust everywhere and the pollen count through the roof.

 

Smoke does rise, but the cooler smoke that a smoker blows out doesn't rise very fast. I've actually never been on a verandah, but going by reports by others, when there are smokers nearby, the smoke does travel to other verandahs. A 20 knot wind would actually be very good at delivering smoke to verandahs downwind of you. Besides, do you actually think a prohibition on smoking except when the wind was 20 knots or higher would actually work? "Well, it was when I lit up."

 

I certainly didn't say I had smoke blown in my face on a verandah. It was done by someone who felt entitled to their smoking, called my inhaler "bull****", and blew right in my face as I was pulling in the deep breath required to get the medication all the way down in my lungs. I'm reminded of it every time I encounter yet another person with that attitude.

 

Most people who are of the "doused in perfume/cologne" type actually don't know how much they reek. They can't smell it because their nose acclimates to it (they often get that way from redosing because they think it wore off). They're often very embarrassed if they find out. Definitely never ran into someone like that with a "well it's legal, screw you" attitude.

[midwest 852]

Oh, it's the odor, not a health issue. So, now we're back to perfumes and colognes; they really stink. Soap & water works for me but , for some people,they have to soak in artificial "enhancers" and apparently, there is no special place or section for them in a restaurant, lounge.:) Why not? Perhaps, all cruise lines should prohibit perfumes and colognes in restaurants. Who wants to have a good steak with the smell of Chanel #5, Old English and other unnatural scents wafting around. In the future people should be sure to take a small bottle of PooPourri to the "public" bathroom while aboard ship. :D It is curious how people feel smokers "pollute" the air. Have any of those same people EVER noticed the smoke pouring out of the cruise ship exhaust stacks/towers on all their multiple cruises? :confused:[

 

 

Hi Cantorindahouse & welcome just a little FYI the smoking topic is a hot one. There're a few posters who stand on their soap box & post over & over. They think their opinion is the only one the matters.

The good news it that they both claim that their next cruise is on another cruise line. I hope they have wonderful cruise and change to a different line!

Edited May 31, 2015 by midwest 852
Mis word

[cruz chic]

You are right. You certainly do do that. Some people just come to stir the pot, nothing more.

[Cantorindahouse]

We have established this thread to be the "go to" thread for all discussions pertaining to Holland America's on board smoking policies. This thread is intended to make it easier for all Cruise Critic members to discuss these policies and any future changes thereto.

 

Here's a link to HAL's policy summary Shipboard Life: Is smoking allowed on board? - Click on "Shipboard Life" and a drop down menu will appear. Click on "On Board Policies" in that menu and you'll see the last question is "Is smoking allowed on board?"

 

Here's the currently posted policy (as of August 9, 2014):

 

-----

Is Smoking Allowed On Board?

For the comfort of all of our guests, all staterooms (cabins), showrooms and most other indoor areas are designated non-smoking. While smoking is not permitted in staterooms, guests are allowed to smoke on stateroom verandahs. Smoking is also permitted on certain other designated, outside decks. The designated smoking areas for all ships are as follows unless otherwise noted.

 

 

• Stateroom verandahs
  
• Casino (Active players only)
  
• Seaview Bar
  
• Outside Decks
  
  • Sports Deck
    
  • Observation Deck (ms Prinsendam, ms Eurodam, ms Nieuw Amsterdam, ms Noordam, ms Oosterdam, ms Westerdam, and ms Zuiderdam only)
    

   

 

Cigar and pipe smoking is not allowed anywhere inside the ship; it is only permitted on the outside decks where smoking is otherwise allowed and on stateroom verandahs. Electronic cigarettes are permitted in staterooms but not in other public areas of the ship other than on outside decks designated as smoking areas.

 

 

Any guest who smokes inside staterooms in violation of our policy will be charged a US$250 cleaning fee per day of violation.

 

----

 

Reminders.

 

1. Our community guidelines continue to apply to this thread.

 

2. This is a forum for discussions of cruising and associated topics. It is not a forum for discussing the health, economics and public policy aspects of smoking, whether associated with cigarettes, pipes, cigars or controlled substances (marijuana).

 

3. Discussions of this approach to smoking posts and other board policies are off topic and will be removed. Please post discussions of this approach for smoking posts to this thread: Single Smoking Thread on the HAL Board - a Sticky

 

Thanks for your understanding and continued participation on the Cruise Critic forums.

 

First of all; I am not a troll! I resent the insinuation; "some people only come on here to stir things up". Imagine,if one can; A person researching HAL and he or she logs onto Cruise Critic and they go to the HAL Forum. There on the forum is a topic about smoking on HAL ships. The person just returned from a cruise where he or she witnessed the "restrictions" placed on good decent people only because they prefer to smoke. The topic on CC is germane to what he/she experienced. He or she posts and is accused, by insinuation, of trolling. Rubbish!:mad:

 

Regarding the 20+ winds. This is simple physics; the ship is sailing at 20+ knots, thus, creating a constant wind flow of 20+ knots. Remember as kids (some adults still do it) sticking your hand out of the car window to feel the resistance of the wind? The same principle applies while sailing. :)

 

In conclusion: I do not have to, or need to, read the entire thread to know what the topic contains. For me, to read the entire thread is, simply, a waste of my time. All I had to do was read the original post (quoted above). I have an opinion and others have their opinions on the issue. HAL's policy is clearly spelled out. I have experienced different policies on different cruise lines and I have a right and perhaps a responsibility to post my opinion.:cool:

 

'nuff said!

Happy Cruising !:)

[kennicott]

Second hand smoke at 20+ knots triggers your asthma? Check with your pulmonary doctor, you may need more medication than an inhaler.

 

Sounds as if you haven't spent much time on balconies. Actually, twenty knots of wind across such is just one more of these "straw man" myths frequently introduced during ship-board smoking discussions.

 

Actually, well over 50% of the use of balconies takes place in dead air, while tied up to a pier or at anchor. Sail-away is the time most balconies are occupied, the ship has all of 1 to 3 knots of headway at those times. While on the open sea the wind blowing through the balcony is usually negligible, as it is blocked out by the ships super-structure. Not like one is standing on the forecastle facing into a headwind. Even then, often times wind across the deck created by the vessels forward motion is canceled out by a following wind.

 

Only time we have ever experienced real unpleasant wind conditions on our balconies are during a storm when the prevailing wind is broadside to the ship on our side.

 

Good try though, but no cigar, pun intended.

[Cantorindahouse]

Sounds as if you haven't spent much time on balconies. Actually, twenty knots of wind across such is just one more of these "straw man" myths frequently introduced during ship-board smoking discussions.

 

Actually, well over 50% of the use of balconies takes place in dead air, while tied up to a pier or at anchor. Sail-away is the time most balconies are occupied, the ship has all of 1 to 3 knots of headway at those times. While on the open sea the wind blowing through the balcony is usually negligible, as it is blocked out by the ships super-structure. Not like one is standing on the forecastle facing into a headwind. Even then, often times wind across the deck created by the vessels forward motion is canceled out by a following wind.

 

Only time we have ever experienced real unpleasant wind conditions on our balconies are during a storm when the prevailing wind is broadside to the ship on our side.

 

Good try though, but no cigar, pun intended.

 

So, your thesis is; there is no wind on the balcony because of the ship's super structure. Really?:rolleyes: If that were the case the smoke would stay put within the verandah where the person is smoking. :confused: The "Straw Man"

argument is only applicable if there is lack of empirical evidence. I do not believe there is anyone,anywhere, who believes the air stands still, on a balcony, while the ship is sailing. So your straw man argument defies logic and, at the least, critical thinking ;) BTW, we only book a cabin with a balcony. This is the end of the discussion on my behalf. There is no need for me to continue. I've said/written my opinion and

Happy Sailings, wherever that may be!:)

[Ky Colonel]

... There're a few posters who stand on their soap box & post over & over. They think their opinion is the only one the matters...

 

midwest, you got that right (and I do not include you in that group) - too bad they don't (or can't) understand that people can disagree without being disagreeable ...

[summer slope]

I've said it before and will continue to say it again....you are free and legal to smoke on your balcony, but NOT ON MINE!!!! Keep your smoke on your side.

[Ky Colonel]

I've said it before and will continue to say it again....you are free and legal to smoke on your balcony, but NOT ON MINE!!!! Keep your smoke on your side.

 

... as a non-smoker, I agree with you 110% ... how do we extend this same "rule" to people who wear strong perfumes/colognes?

[sail7seas]

First of all; I am not a troll! I resent the insinuation; "some people only come on here to stir things up". Imagine,if one can; A person researching HAL and he or she logs onto Cruise Critic and they go to the HAL Forum. There on the forum is a topic about smoking on HAL ships. The person just returned from a cruise where he or she witnessed the "restrictions" placed on good decent people only because they prefer to smoke. The topic on CC is germane to what he/she experienced. He or she posts and is accused, by insinuation, of trolling. Rubbish!:mad:

 

Regarding the 20+ winds. This is simple physics; the ship is sailing at 20+ knots, thus, creating a constant wind flow of 20+ knots. Remember as kids (some adults still do it) sticking your hand out of the car window to feel the resistance of the wind? The same principle applies while sailing. :)

 

In conclusion: I do not have to, or need to, read the entire thread to know what the topic contains. For me, to read the entire thread is, simply, a waste of my time. All I had to do was read the original post (quoted above). I have an opinion and others have their opinions on the issue. HAL's policy is clearly spelled out. I have experienced different policies on different cruise lines and I have a right and perhaps a responsibility to post my opinion.:cool:

 

'nuff said!

Happy Cruising !:)

 

Regarding the 20+ knots, it is moot. HAL rarely sails at that speed these days. The ships have that ability but some are noticing port times have been shortened and the ships are sailing slower in order to conserve fuel.

 

 

 

[IRL_Joanie]

<..........SNIP..........>Actually, well over 50% of the use of balconies takes place in dead air, while tied up to a pier or at anchor. Sail-away is the time most balconies are occupied, the ship has all of 1 to 3 knots of headway at those times. <..........SNIP..........>

 

Actually if you watch Sail Aways from Port Everglades you will see on average perhaps 15 or 20 staterooms that have passengers on their verandahs during Sail Aways.

 

Hubby and I have both noted that fact and wonder where all the verandah users are if they are not on their verandah...

 

Makes no sense to me that people would not use their verandah during sail aways..........

 

Watch any sail aways from Port Everglades archives and you will see what I am saying.

 

Joanie

[Ky Colonel]

First of all; I am not a troll! I resent the insinuation; "some people only come on here to stir things up" .... and I have a right and perhaps a responsibility to post my opinion.:cool:

 

Cantorindahouse, While I may disagree with your opinions concerning the reasonableness of restrictions placed on smokers, I agree 110% with your comment above ... I guess some CCers find it easier to launch an ad hominem attack than to respond to the other person's arguments/opinions ... assuming there is a need to respond to everything posted on here, that is ...

[POA1]

Hubby and I have both noted that fact and wonder where all the verandah users are if they are not on their verandah...

 

Makes no sense to me that people would not use their verandah during sail aways..........

 

Watch any sail aways from Port Everglades archives and you will see what I am saying.

 

Joanie

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but we're usually in the Crow's Nest. There's an appalling lack of bar facilities on our balcony.

 

Also, little goldfish crackers. ;)

[kennicott]

Straw Man Argument defined: Exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty serves to undermine honest rational debate. The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition and then to refute or defeat that false argument, (hence comes the term "straw man") instead of the original proposition.

 

In the now over 2000 posts on this HAL smoking thread we see evidence of the straw man continuously. For instance, all the posts listing other obnoxious or seemingly obnoxious practices or conditions. I.e.. Stack smoke, B.O., cologne, deodorant, perfume, hair sprays, various lotions, mousse, hair mousse, shaving cream, toothpaste, mouthwash, you name it. Another good example of this is to deliver the misleading impression that sitting and smoking on one's balcony is like sitting in a wind tunnel. Not to mention floating all the many of the evils or perceived evils of society. The one I like best is the most egregious of all, a poster compared tattoos to cigarette smoke as being equally offensive.

 

All this reminds me of the cop giving a guy a traffic ticket for speeding and the guy asks "why are you not arresting real lawbreakers, like those pedaling illegal drugs, instead of picking on me?"

 

Anyrate, this thread is limited to HAL on board smoking problems, not to be expanded into discussions regarding cleaning up all mankind's various sensitivities.

Edited May 31, 2015 by kennicott

[kennicott]

Actually if you watch Sail Aways from Port Everglades you will see on average perhaps 15 or 20 staterooms that have passengers on their verandahs during Sail Aways.

 

Hubby and I have both noted that fact and wonder where all the verandah users are if they are not on their verandah...

 

Makes no sense to me that people would not use their verandah during sail aways..........

 

Watch any sail aways from Port Everglades archives and you will see what I am saying.

 

Joanie

 

That is an interesting observation. We witness the opposite. Of the hundreds of sail-aways we have experienced, when we have a balcony, we have always remarked that so many are out at those times. It is only then that we usually have the opportunity to meet guests on balconies adjacent to us, time and again they are out with us during those sail-aways. I'm not certain of the percentage and it probably isn't known anyway as folk tend to drift in and out of their staterooms to just look around briefly. Me, I'm out there all the time, almost.

 

Sometime back there was an interesting and semi-pertinent post on this thread. NCL discontinued balcony smoking in November 2014. Apparently there was a lot of frustration among NCL smokers regarding that, for a short time anyway, during which a few chose to ignore the new rule. The poster and her husband were on a HAL ship a few weeks after the NCL ban took place, looking across the pier at a NCL vessel preparing to sail. She said that from their vantage point they could see a limited number of balconies, they counted 20 with people on them, 11 of the 20 had folks visibly smoking.

[Hlitner]

Actually if you watch Sail Aways from Port Everglades you will see on average perhaps 15 or 20 staterooms that have passengers on their verandahs during Sail Aways.

 

Hubby and I have both noted that fact and wonder where all the verandah users are if they are not on their verandah...

 

Makes no sense to me that people would not use their verandah during sail aways..........

 

Watch any sail aways from Port Everglades archives and you will see what I am saying.

 

Joanie

 

Well, I guess we "make no sense" because we rarely would be on our veranda during a sail away. If the weather cooperates we will often be outside on the deck (at the bow if possible) chatting with other folks and enjoying a full view. In the case of lousy weather we would likely be in the Crows Nest (on HAL) or some other bar on other ships.

 

Hank