This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[Hlitner]

Glad it is working out for you (kind of like rolling the dice with a veranda). As to avoiding the Casino, we have often thanked the smokers for saving us thousands of dollars as we have never spent a penny in a HAL casino on our last 200+ days of HAL cruising. We save our gambling money for the totally smoke-free Celebrity casinos where we have, unfortunately, donated too much money.

 

Hank

[galensgrl]

Yes sail but the only posts that count on here are ones that say smoke isn't an issue. It isn't for smokers and a handful of non smokers. I've also seen posters on here that say they are non smokers and admit later on that they are smokers. If it wasn't a problem this thread would have been dead long ago.

 

This thread does seem to get the most action. We are non-smokers in an aft balcony this time. I just read that aft balconies have very little air flow compared to balconies on the side of the ship. We've been in balcony cabins before and haven't had any problems with smokers. I hope it's not a problem this time, DH is more sensitive to it than I am. He gets very stuffed up and has a hard time breathing in smoky places like the casino. I hope we don't get inundated with smoke on the balcony. :eek: On the plus side I don't think our balcony will be too windy to enjoy it lol :D

 

Lorie

Edited April 16, 2015 by galensgrl

[BuddyP]

This thread does seem to get the most action. We are non-smokers in an aft balcony this time. I just read that aft balconies have very little air flow compared to balconies on the side of the ship. We've been in balcony cabins before and haven't had any problems with smokers. I hope it's not a problem this time, DH is more sensitive to it than I am. He gets very stuffed up and has a hard time breathing in smoky places like the casino. I hope we don't get inundated with smoke on the balcony. :eek: On the plus side I don't think our balcony will be too windy to enjoy it lol :D

 

Lorie

 

We were smoked off of our aft suite balcony on our last Noordam cruise in November 2013. We had issues as early as 7:00 AM and as late as 12:30 AM. We were surrounded by smokers above, below and adjacent and it made the balcony unusable for us. We didn't complain as the smokers were doing nothing wrong. They are allowed to smoke on their balcony. All we can do is what we have done, take our business elsewhere. We are just shy of 4 star status and love the HAL product but we can't use the balcony any more so we won't sail them again until the policy is changed.

 

I hope your luck is better than ours and you have a great vacation.

[Elorac123]

Why not keep the smoking On Verandas to one side of the ship, my hubby reckons it could get lob-sided

Happy travels

[kennicott]

Why not keep the smoking On Verandas to one side of the ship, my hubby reckons it could get lob-sided

Happy travels

 

Your post and some responses gave me an opportunity to chuckle for a change. Fact is, this is a tough subject to deal with and things get pretty testy from time to time. Once in a while a little levity is good for the soul.

 

Probably, only those who have been following the issue can appreciate that your question and post was sincere, unfortunately it was not original for certain, as, it has been brought up so much, not only on this thread but in just every forum dealing with shipboard smoking that I have read, the pros and cons of which have been posted so often it borders on ad nauseam it seems.

 

But, it isn't realistic to expect a first time poster here to wade through almost 2 K worth of opinion posts in order to ascertain that, though. So, Elorac123, hang in there and keep posting ideas. It will no doubt be sometime, and many hundreds more posts yet, before we all have a handle on just what is going to develop onboard HAL ships due new non-smoking policies on the other lines.

[furluvcats]

After 30+ cruises with nearly every line, we have decided to cruise HAL exclusively because we are allowed the freedom to smoke on the verandah we paid so much for.

 

That being said, we wouldn't be opposed to every indoor area being smoke free and what I don't understand is why they just do not limit verandah smoking to one side of the ship. Solves the problem of the smoking neighbor if you book on the non-smoking side.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tights]

After 30+ cruises with nearly every line, we have decided to cruise HAL exclusively because we are allowed the freedom to smoke on the verandah we paid so much for.

 

That being said, we wouldn't be opposed to every indoor area being smoke free and what I don't understand is why they just do not limit verandah smoking to one side of the ship. Solves the problem of the smoking neighbor if you book on the non-smoking side.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Someone in another post mentioned yhe boat might get lopsided

[Banditswife]

It seems like the cruise lines could do as a lot of hotels do: designate a certain deck or portion of a deck to be "smoking." They could charge a premium for these staterooms & anyone booking them would know that the previous guest probably smoked in them. This would eliminate smoke on balconies, the rest of the ship could be smoke free.

[kennicott]

After 30+ cruises with nearly every line, we have decided to cruise HAL exclusively because we are allowed the freedom to smoke on the verandah we paid so much for.

 

That being said, we wouldn't be opposed to every indoor area being smoke free and what I don't understand is why they just do not limit verandah smoking to one side of the ship. Solves the problem of the smoking neighbor if you book on the non-smoking side./QUOTE]

 

One of the problems the lines have with designating one side or the other for balcony smoking is that, (putting HAL's "the only balcony smoking now" issue aside for a moment) and where the demographics are equal they can only expect somewhere between 5% to 8% of their guests to be smokers, therefore designating 50% of all balcony cabins to smokers would be awkward.

[CRUZBUDS]

After 30+ cruises with nearly every line, we have decided to cruise HAL exclusively because we are allowed the freedom to smoke on the verandah we paid so much for.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I'm not trying to be snide, I am just curious ... will you stay with HAL, once they catch up with all of the other lines and ban balcony smoking?

 

HAL does have a a few other things going for them :)

[Fizzer59]

Well it's my own fault for not researching more carefully before but had I known this earlier then I most definitely would not have chosen HAL for our first cruise. To be honest I was quite shocked to come across this thread as more and more resorts and hotels are going totally smoke free and are not suffering financially as much as some would have you believe. In fact the local bars at home, who were opposed to a smoking ban on the grounds that it would lose them their best customers, are actually finding the opposite and that more folks are coming out now that they don't have to deal with smoke.

 

I know it's a controversial issue and that many smokers believe that non smokers are over the top in their concerns but it really does spoil an otherwise pleasant experience. If there were designated smoking areas that I could avoid I would be more than happy but the lottery of spending money on a verandah that might be potentially unusable is a gamble I wouldn't have taken had I known. Nobody to blame but myself and I really don't blame the smokers in this case as they are only doing what is allowed.

 

Having said that I am going in open minded but would still be very disappointed if we were not able to use the balcony "that we had paid so much for", (to quote an earlier post.)

[DeeniEncinitas]

So any news from corporate yet on possible smoking ban on HAL?

Seems to be going slow with any news.

Denise

[kennicott]

So any news from corporate yet on possible smoking ban on HAL?

Seems to be going slow with any news.

Denise

 

Yes, in a way. Go back to post 1861 where mountainmare posted on April 10th that Bill and Maryann on board the Prinsendam, with a small group of C.C.ers, met with the two top dogs of HAL. Number one was Stein Kruse who is CEO of the Holland America Group, which includes Princess, HAL, P&O Australia, Seabourn and all of the combined Alaska operations previously under Princess and HAL. Kruse was CEO of just HAL for many years. Also there was Orlando Ashford now CEO of HAL. During a Q & O period this exchange took place according to Bill and Maryann:

 

 

"But the highlight of the afternoon, was a special presentation and Questions and Answers with Stein Kruse, Orlando Ashford and Gerald Bernhoft in the Queens Lounge at 3pm. Joining them were Henk M, the Hotel Manager and Captain Mercer for the Q & A later on."

 

"5. Will the veranda suites ever go “non-smoking”? As is stands, there is NO smoking in the cabins, but you are allowed to smoke outside on the balcony. This will not change for now. However, they are looking into other measures to insure the smoke from cigarettes and cigars is less offensive to those who do not smoke."

 

 

Since the super heavy weights said this, it is not particularly encouraging for one looking for smoke free balconies anytime in the near to distant future on HAL.

 

After mountainmare posted another responded by suggesting that HAL wasn't going to make a big pronouncement like that at that time anyway. I followed up with:

 

"When large corporations make up there mind regarding a major issue they will announce it at their own place and time.

 

Having spent many years dealing with major issues within corporations I would agree that is true, but with limitations.

 

For instance, if the matter is going to generally have a positive impact on customers and or shareholders, releasing such good news in response to a random question would be rare, very rare. The business wants to get as much bang for their buck out of said release, so a harmonious environment employing a lot of fanfare, and press, gets the most mileage. In order to avoid answering the question prematurely, but still appearing sincere, "carrot dangling" is employed since there is a reason why this can't be possible, just now. Example: "This will not change for now. But as is stands, there is no smoking in the cabins, but you are allowed to smoke outside on the balcony, however, we are looking into other measures." Therefore, everybody goes away not completely satisfied but still filled with a degree of hope.

 

On the other hand, when the question involves an answer which, no matter what it is, is more than likely going to make a goodly percentage of the companies clientele unhappy, then the "red herring" approach is employed. This type response usually misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue. Often it is a deliberate diversion of attention, intentionally trying to abandon the original question. The motivation behind it may be that the responder has no intention of complying with the essence of the question at hand but it may also have a logical connotation which achieves the purpose, leading the listeners toward false, knowingly not possible, conclusions. Example: "We are looking into other measures to insure the smoke from cigarettes and cigars is less offensive to those who do not smoke."

[DeeniEncinitas]

Yes, in a way. Go back to post 1861 where mountainmare posted on April 10th that Bill and Maryann on board the Prinsendam, with a small group of C.C.ers, met with the two top dogs of HAL. Number one was Stein Kruse who is CEO of the Holland America Group, which includes Princess, HAL, P&O Australia, Seabourn and all of the combined Alaska operations previously under Princess and HAL. Kruse was CEO of just HAL for many years. Also there was Orlando Ashford now CEO of HAL. During a Q & O period this exchange took place according to Bill and Maryann:

 

 

"But the highlight of the afternoon, was a special presentation and Questions and Answers with Stein Kruse, Orlando Ashford and Gerald Bernhoft in the Queens Lounge at 3pm. Joining them were Henk M, the Hotel Manager and Captain Mercer for the Q & A later on."

 

"5. Will the veranda suites ever go “non-smoking”? As is stands, there is NO smoking in the cabins, but you are allowed to smoke outside on the balcony. This will not change for now. However, they are looking into other measures to insure the smoke from cigarettes and cigars is less offensive to those who do not smoke."

 

 

Since the super heavy weights said this, it is not particularly encouraging for one looking for smoke free balconies anytime in the near to distant future on HAL.

 

After mountainmare posted another responded by suggesting that HAL wasn't going to make a big pronouncement like that at that time anyway. I followed up with:

 

"When large corporations make up there mind regarding a major issue they will announce it at their own place and time.

 

Having spent many years dealing with major issues within corporations I would agree that is true, but with limitations.

 

For instance, if the matter is going to generally have a positive impact on customers and or shareholders, releasing such good news in response to a random question would be rare, very rare. The business wants to get as much bang for their buck out of said release, so a harmonious environment employing a lot of fanfare, and press, gets the most mileage. In order to avoid answering the question prematurely, but still appearing sincere, "carrot dangling" is employed since there is a reason why this can't be possible, just now. Example: "This will not change for now. But as is stands, there is no smoking in the cabins, but you are allowed to smoke outside on the balcony, however, we are looking into other measures." Therefore, everybody goes away not completely satisfied but still filled with a degree of hope.

 

On the other hand, when the question involves an answer which, no matter what it is, is more than likely going to make a goodly percentage of the companies clientele unhappy, then the "red herring" approach is employed. This type response usually misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue. Often it is a deliberate diversion of attention, intentionally trying to abandon the original question. The motivation behind it may be that the responder has no intention of complying with the essence of the question at hand but it may also have a logical connotation which achieves the purpose, leading the listeners toward false, knowingly not possible, conclusions. Example: "We are looking into other measures to insure the smoke from cigarettes and cigars is less offensive to those who do not smoke."

 

Kennicott,

So informative, thank you so much!

You explained it so well.

It looks like it is still a wait and see.

I guess I will be waiting a long time.

LOL

Thank you again,

Denise

[Fizzer59]

"We are looking into other measures to insure the smoke from cigarettes and cigars is less offensive to those who do not smoke."

 

http://www.alternativelooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/tani-woman-nose-plug.jpg

 

 

I have received further notification that they are just waiting to have the HAL logo embossed before providing 2 pairs in each Verandah Suite and above. Guests in Neptune and Pinnacle Suites will be allowed to keep these wonderful souvenirs of their HAL experience at no extra charge . Those in Verandah Suites will have to return then so they can be prepared for the next guests. They will not be on sale in the HAL on board shops at this time but we plan to review their popularity over time.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Fizzer59

[freestyling]

Perfect. Seems like a predictable corporate response / action. :D

[DeeniEncinitas]

http://www.alternativelooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/tani-woman-nose-plug.jpg

 

 

I have received further notification that they are just waiting to have the HAL logo embossed before providing 2 pairs in each Verandah Suite and above. Guests in Neptune and Pinnacle Suites will be allowed to keep these wonderful souvenirs of their HAL experience at no extra charge . Those in Verandah Suites will have to return then so they can be prepared for the next guests. They will not be on sale in the HAL on board shops at this time but we plan to review their popularity over time.

 

Love it!

LOL😜

[ithaca gal]

The problem with allocating one side of the ship as non-smoking on verandahs (in addition to the fact that waaaay less people smoke than there are verandahs) is that most smokers would want to book a verandah on the non-smoking side. Confused? They also want to enjoy a verandah without being bothered by other smokers. I found this out when traveling with a friend who smokes. She said that many smokers want to have a place to smoke but don't want to be affected by OTHER people's smoke! Go figure!

[idiebabe]

Well it's my own fault for not researching more carefully before but had I known this earlier then I most definitely would not have chosen HAL for our first cruise. To be honest I was quite shocked to come across this thread as more and more resorts and hotels are going totally smoke free and are not suffering financially as much as some would have you believe. In fact the local bars at home, who were opposed to a smoking ban on the grounds that it would lose them their best customers, are actually finding the opposite and that more folks are coming out now that they don't have to deal with smoke.

 

I know it's a controversial issue and that many smokers believe that non smokers are over the top in their concerns but it really does spoil an otherwise pleasant experience. If there were designated smoking areas that I could avoid I would be more than happy but the lottery of spending money on a verandah that might be potentially unusable is a gamble I wouldn't have taken had I known. Nobody to blame but myself and I really don't blame the smokers in this case as they are only doing what is allowed.

 

Having said that I am going in open minded but would still be very disappointed if we were not able to use the balcony "that we had paid so much for", (to quote an earlier post.)

 

Definitely go with an Open Mind! There is more hype and drama on the Social Media sites than actually what the situation is onboard and that applies to all topics but especially applies to smoking!

 

If you read back through these posts, the majority of the posts are done by the same people over and over and over again! :eek:

 

We just got off a TA with beautiful weather and there were no issues with smoke from other balconies! Think about it! The Ship is moving at 16 - 18 knots and even in Ports (unless in a very, hot humid one) there is air movement. Cigarette Smoke does not carry more than 3 - 4 feet before it dissipates. If by some chance you get a brief whiff of one if someone is standing at the rail, it's not actually in your face if you're not within a few feet of them!

 

Also, contrary to what people here post about Smokers the Smokers do not spend 24/7on their balconies! They do what everyone else does which is take tours, get off in the Ports, go to Shows, go eat, lay out on Lido, go to activities, go to Happy Hour, etc.

 

Go enjoy your Cruise and don't even think about it! :)

 

Happy Sailing! :)

[dogo88]

Definitely go with an Open Mind! There is more hype and drama on the Social Media sites than actually what the situation is onboard and that applies to all topics but especially applies to smoking!

 

If you read back through these posts, the majority of the posts are done by the same people over and over and over again! :eek:

 

We just got off a TA with beautiful weather and there were no issues with smoke from other balconies! Think about it! The Ship is moving at 16 - 18 knots and even in Ports (unless in a very, hot humid one) there is air movement. Cigarette Smoke does not carry more than 3 - 4 feet before it dissipates. If by some chance you get a brief whiff of one if someone is standing at the rail, it's not actually in your face if you're not within a few feet of them!

 

 

 

Happy Sailing! :)

 

Sorry but have to disagree with your comments about smoking and who/what is affected. This month's Ryndam cruise was the worst smoking issues we have ever had on a HAL ship. At almost every outside area you were greeted with a whiff of smoke from those that were nearby( well more than 3-4 feet). The smoke does travel around the deck and while it's not like someone blowing smoke in your face, one smoker lighting up in the front of a deck gets everyone hit along that side with the smell of smoke.

 

Dan

Edited April 29, 2015 by dogo88
spelling

[sail7seas]

The problem with allocating one side of the ship as non-smoking on verandahs (in addition to the fact that waaaay less people smoke than there are verandahs) is that most smokers would want to book a verandah on the non-smoking side. Confused? They also want to enjoy a verandah without being bothered by other smokers. I found this out when traveling with a friend who smokes. She said that many smokers want to have a place to smoke but don't want to be affected by OTHER people's smoke! Go figure!

 

Wow..... I'm not sure if the word is selfish or what to describe that attitude. That friend didn't mind she was bothering others with HER smoke but didn't want others to disturb her. Whew...... Where does one go with that?

 

 

 

<snip>

 

We just got off a TA with beautiful weather and there were no issues with smoke from other balconies! Think about it! The Ship is moving at 16 - 18 knots and even in Ports (unless in a very, hot humid one) there is air movement. Cigarette Smoke does not carry more than 3 - 4 feet before it dissipates. If by some chance you get a brief whiff of one if someone is standing at the rail, it's not actually in your face if you're not within a few feet of them!

 

Also, contrary to what people here post about Smokers the Smokers do not spend 24/7on their balconies! They do what everyone else does which is take tours, get off in the Ports, go to Shows, go eat, lay out on Lido, go to activities, go to Happy Hour, etc.

 

Go enjoy your Cruise and don't even think about it! :)

 

Happy Sailing! :)

 

 

 

That may be your experience and on many cruises it has sometimes been my experience.

 

BUT to make a blanket statement that smokers do not spend 24/7 on their balconies is not for you to be able to say. We had a Eurodam b-to-b where we had smokers (4 people in all) on either side of our verandah. We lost use of our verandah one whole segment as there was always someone on one side or the other smoking when we tried to use our verandah.

 

We had another cruise when we never got to enjoy any sailaways on our verandah as there was a couple on the verandah beneath us who always stood at the rail and the slow motion of the ship leaving the dock would blow the smoke straight up to our space. It was noxious and denied us any enjoyment of a beautiful Caribbean late afternoon sailaway. Please do not tell me it didn't happen.

 

[Fizzer59]

I have to be honest I can smell smoke and be bugged by it from a lot more than 2-4 feet or even 13-14 feet. Many smokers greatly underestimate such things in my experience.

 

As for the lady who wanted to avoid other smokers even though she smokes herself can believe it. Many years ago new friends of ours were at our house for dinner. Even though neither of us smoke we had ashtrays for guests who did and, when the husband asked if he could smoke, we were polite and would let him ( this was in the 80's). Well imagine our surprise when we went to their house. He kept disappearing outside to smoke, as he didn't allow smoking in his own house, because the smell got into the furnishings etc. To use a good old British expression I was "gobsmacked". When I called him on it his answer was that he had asked and we had said yes so he didn't see it as an issue. It was the last time I did that and I politely decline now, although there are obviously far fewer smokers than there were 30 years ago.

 

Our biggest hop regarding our upcoming cruise is that we are on the second most forward verandah so will hopefully only potentially be affected by one other cabin's smoke if we are moving.

[Jo3]

We disembarked the Neuv Amsterdam in Barcelona and did have times on our balcony where cigar and cigarette smoke were smelled. We were fortunate and did not have smokers on either side of us; so I can only imagine how bad it would be to have it next door. Sometimes it was nauseating to me and I had to go inside which was a disappointment when I had planned to be out and enjoy the fresh air on " my balcony I paid so much for". This was especially annoying if I had just began a meal on the balcony and had to carry everything in. Other times the odor dissipated and I was able to "wait" it out. Other times I was able to enjoy the balcony without the odor; however I could never count on this.

 

I did notice cigar smoke on the back deck 2 of two of the three times I was back there. This could be a reason there were not many people there....and no I was not in the smoking area....the odor was carrying over in the non smoking areas. I quickly took my pictures and left.

 

Once we stopped in the shops to look at some jewelry and the clerk reeked of cigarette smoke so we discontinued looking. He said he just had a smoke break.

 

The casino always smelled of smoke except one time when it wasn't too bad. We had just left port and it was going to open in 30 mins.

 

I really liked the ship and the room layout, but will not book with HAL because of the smoking policy on balconies.

[kennicott]

There is more hype and drama on the Social Media sites than actually what the situation is onboard and that applies to all topics but especially applies to smoking!

 

If you read back through these posts, the majority of the posts are done by the same people over and over and over again! :eek:

 

 

Good try but no cigar. This is a good example of the typical "strawman subterfuge" used often in political discourse.

 

"To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument. The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition."

 

In this case, the strawman argument is that their exists only a handful of posters attempting to foster hate and discontent. So, "move along folks, nothing to see here."

 

Rather, what we have going here on this thread, now approaching 2000 posts, is concern by a significant number of HAL faithful over a recent development impacting HAL, which originates from all the other major cruise lines discontinuing the practice of allowing balcony smoking. Since it is such a recent development it obviously is going to take a bit of time for cruisers, both smokers and non, to figure out what is going on. But if one wades through these posts it will become clear that there is significant evidence already that smokers are booking HAL in order to enjoy a cigarette or cigar or pipe on the balcony, for which they paid "dearly".

 

This isn't the only thread or forum involved with similar discourse. Reading some of the other threads it is clear that quite a number of cruisers are not yet aware of the new smoking policies. So it is going to take some time for the word to get out. For instance: On C.C. there has been a least two other threads dealing with questions similar to "Should we take HAL or ????" Of course, HAL's smoking issue arises all the time there. Just in recent days a long time cruiser posted this in response to those questioning HAL smoking, on one of those other threads:

 

"Sorry, that is very dated information. HAL like Princess no longer allows smoking in their cabins or balcony's---- I feel if you're going to post and answer questions you should be able to give correct information, and not old and out dated incorrect information swayed by your personal prejudices."

 

Now, that statement just serves to illustrate how many are still uniformed about this HAL smoking situation. Of course, this guy received, what do you call it--a "flame" job? Example:

 

"Wow, this post of yours was quite the fail. It's one thing to be wrong..we all do it from time to time...but it's another to lecture someone else and be so condescending while being wrong. HAL definitely still allows balcony smoking. Take your own advice."

 

Testy, testy, indeed. Going to get worse, I'm afraid folks.

[cruz chic]

Definitely go with an Open Mind! There is more hype and drama on the Social Media sites than actually what the situation is onboard and that applies to all topics but especially applies to smoking!

 

If you read back through these posts, the majority of the posts are done by the same people over and over and over again! :eek:

 

We just got off a TA with beautiful weather and there were no issues with smoke from other balconies! Think about it! The Ship is moving at 16 - 18 knots and even in Ports (unless in a very, hot humid one) there is air movement. Cigarette Smoke does not carry more than 3 - 4 feet before it dissipates. If by some chance you get a brief whiff of one if someone is standing at the rail, it's not actually in your face if you're not within a few feet of them!

 

Also, contrary to what people here post about Smokers the Smokers do not spend 24/7on their balconies! They do what everyone else does which is take tours, get off in the Ports, go to Shows, go eat, lay out on Lido, go to activities, go to Happy Hour, etc.

 

Go enjoy your Cruise and don't even think about it! :)

 

Happy Sailing! :)

 

I'm confused, aren't you a smoker? How could you smell smoke when you smoke yourself?

Edited April 29, 2015 by cruz chic