This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[IRL_Joanie]

I can't speak for anyone else, but we're usually in the Crow's Nest. There's an appalling lack of bar facilities on our balcony.

 

Also, little goldfish crackers. ;)

 

:D:D

 

Joanie

[sail7seas]

Out of all our cruises, we were on our verandah or with friends on theirs at least 90% of the time. Once in a while, we may have roamed out to Aft Pool.

 

[IRL_Joanie]

Well, I guess we "make no sense" because we rarely would be on our veranda during a sail away. If the weather cooperates we will often be outside on the deck (at the bow if possible) chatting with other folks and enjoying a full view. In the case of lousy weather we would likely be in the Crows Nest (on HAL) or some other bar on other ships.

 

Hank

Hank, that is the reason I responded as I did. To point out the one point that was made:

 

Originally Posted by kennicott

<..........SNIP..........>Actually, well over 50% of the use of balconies takes place in dead air, while tied up to a pier or at anchor. Sail-away is the time most balconies are occupied, the ship has all of 1 to 3 knots of headway at those times. <..........SNIP..........>

 

The point being that not even 50% are on their verandahs watching Sail Away. Most are out and about the ship and only a small percentage are actually using the verandah. Which goes to my thoughts that if you are out and about in various other areas of the ship, i.e.; Crows Nest, Lido Aft, Observation Deck, etc., etc., how then can my cigarette tube filled with Pipe Tobacco (I roll my own) bother those folks who are not even there on their verandah to be bothered....

 

Joanie

Edited May 31, 2015 by IRL_Joanie

[kennicott]

Hank, that is the reason I responded as I did. To point out the one point that was made:

 

 

The point being that not even 50% are on their verandahs watching Sail Away. Most are out and about the ship and only a small percentage are actually using the verandah.

Joanie

 

Well, Joanie does have a germane question here, in that there is a goodly percentage of passengers not using their balconies during the sail-aways.

 

My original point was that, at any time during the cruise, when the most use of the balconies is taking place, it is during sail-away time when the ship is either not moving or maintaining very little headway (I don't believe anybody will dispute that, what other occasion would/will even come close to bringing a lot of folks out on their balconies in the same general time frame?). To answer my own question: One time we had a man overboard, that brought them out in volume, for sure.

 

No, Joanie is correct. One of my most favorite aspects of a cruise is the sail-aways. That is why we don't do traditional dining, early seating takes place, most of the time, during sail-aways, and late seating is too late for me anymore. So, there you go Joanie, a goodly percentage of the passengers can't use their balconies as they are either in the dining room or preparing to enter. Last thing I want to be doing during a sail-away is feeding my face.

 

As far as the cocktail hour and no lounge on my balcony, baloney. I make my own bar there. However, back in the days when we didn't get a balcony, I was up on deck chatting and polishing off my wine or a cocktail or two, or three. The camaraderie then with fellow cruisers was super great. But then, as I previously mentioned, more often than not, our adjacent balcony cruise mates are out on their balconies as well, so plenty of fellowship there for us.

 

Another thing we like about sail-aways and being out on the balcony is that other ships are leaving port or getting ready to about the same time. So we are all waving at each other from our balconies and the ship's captains are having grand old horn duels. One time, leaving Malta, they gave us an 8 or 10 gun cannon salute. Wow, real cannons and real powder. Almost shattered my wine glass.

[sail7seas]

Hank, that is the reason I responded as I did. To point out the one point that was made:

 

Originally Posted by kennicott

<..........SNIP..........>Actually, well over 50% of the use of balconies takes place in dead air, while tied up to a pier or at anchor. Sail-away is the time most balconies are occupied, the ship has all of 1 to 3 knots of headway at those times. <..........SNIP..........>

 

The point being that not even 50% are on their verandahs watching Sail Away. Most are out and about the ship and only a small percentage are actually using the verandah. Which goes to my thoughts that if you are out and about in various other areas of the ship, i.e.; Crows Nest, Lido Aft, Observation Deck, etc., etc., how then can my cigarette tube filled with Pipe Tobacco (I roll my own) bother those folks who are not even there on their verandah to be bothered....

 

Joanie

 

 

 

I disagree. It is not my experience that few verandahs have guests on them for sail aways. Sure sometimes more than others but the impression you are giving is there are 'few' guests using their verandah.

 

[hcij2015]

I disagree. It is not my experience that few verandahs have guests on them for sail aways. Sure sometimes more than others but the impression you are giving is there are 'few' guests using their verandah.

 

 

 

I agree. On my cruise there were people on most of the

balconies. We were chatting to one another on sailaway.

I watched the sailaways for a very long time before I joined

Cruise Critic (the sailaways was the reason I joined) and it

seems to me there were lots of people on balconies on all the

ships, and the camera zoomed in on many of them.

[POA1]

Having observed many, many ships sailing out of Port Everglades, live and in person, I can say for a fact that the balconies aren't as heavily populated as you'd expect. That goes for pretty much all the lines. If you get to 30%-35%, I'd be surprised. The majority of the pax are out on deck. Of course if it's a sailing close to 5 PM, you'll lose a fair number of people to dinner, or getting ready for dinner.

 

I don't think Joanie is that far off in her estimate. When the HAL ships come back in the fall, I'll try to make a more accurate assessment (unless I happen to get a life.) I can only see the port side and aft of the ship, so if we want to be super accurate, someone's got to stand on the jetty and count the starboard passengers and balconies.

[cruz chic]

The balcony is my favorite place to be. Living on the frozen tundra I sure don't want to be outside nor do I want to be around a hundred others on open decks.

[Hlitner]

There are just a lot of suppositions here without much fact. Most folks have their own routines and for many of us being on a balcony during sailaways is not where we choose to be at that time. But we tend to take longer HAL cruises which gives us lots of opportunity to use our balcony. Sail aways usually are a great time to be out on deck meeting fellow cruisers which is where we choose to spend our time.

 

But those that think that because a ship is moving the air currents will keep their smoke off other balconies, this is just not true. In fact, when a ship moves the air flow often creates a vacuum effect which literally sucks the smoke, lit cigarettes, butts, and even ashes into other balconies. This is why there are always warnings to never toss anything off a ship (they can be sucked into a balcony) and is also the most likely cause of the Star Princess fire (which destroyed many cabins and killed a passenger) which was likely caused by a lit cigarette being tossed overboard and sucked back into another balcony (where the fire started). In the past we have often been driven off our balcony (on multiple cruise lines) by cigarette smoke. Does it happen all the time? No! But it does happen enough to have kept us from often booking HAL balconies (we always book balconies on most other lines) and now is a major reason why we no longer have any HAL cruises in our future (and we are 4 Star Mariners). At the moment if we want to go on a mass market line we choose either Celebrity or Princess. HAL charges a lot of money for their verandas (on many of their ships) and we just cannot justify paying that kind of money to face the likelyhood of not being able to use our balcony because of cigarette or cigar smoke. And we do notice that few here mention that HAL is the only cruise line (of which we are aware) that allows cigar smoking on regular passenger balconies.

 

And reading the comments about smoke from the stack is laughable. Those stacks are designed to direct any smoke high in the sky away from the ship. And we tend to book balconies in the forward 3rd of a ship where the stacks are never an issue.

 

Hank

Edited June 1, 2015 by Hlitner

[zerbot]

... as a non-smoker, I agree with you 110% ... how do we extend this same "rule" to people who wear strong perfumes/colognes?

 

I suggest you approach it like telling someone their fly is open. As someone who has had to explain why I have to move away from some people, I can tell you that they almost always don't realize it and are extremely apologetic and embarrassed to realize that the smell is that strong. Their nose acclimates, they can no longer smell it, and so they put more on, until they are a walking Shalimar factory.

 

I believe I saw someone use the phrase "good decent people" in regards to smokers. I find that most smokers are indeed "good decent people". They care about the effect their smoking has on other people, whether it be health or just noxious odor related. They don't think there is some conspiracy out there of people who just make stuff up for whatever reason in order to piss on their enjoyment. I only care about other people smoking when it encroaches on me, particularly my airspace and my lungs.

[sammiedawg]

Recently I have read several articles about the condo industry going smoke free. They have the same issues as cruise ships, shared walls, verandas and common areas. Ventilation systems are inadequate to suck up the smoke which then bleeds into the adjoining space owned and occupied by someone else. Many new developers market the units as smoke free and this concept has been well received. Existing condo boards are sick of dealing with smoking complaints and some are converting to smoke free. Sound familiar?

 

We are well into the second quarter of 2015 and I'm waiting on an announcement from Holland America.

[Aquahound]

Watch any sail aways from Port Everglades archives and you will see what I am saying.

 

No, balconies are not well utilized during PE sailaways. People just went through a muster drill and are in the process of exploring the ship, unpacking, getting their celebratory drinks, making reservations and shore excursion bookings, etc. However, balconies most certainly are well utilized when sailing into and out of the ports of call. I see it every day here in Key West.

 

But those that think that because a ship is moving the air currents will keep their smoke off other balconies, this is just not true. In fact, when a ship moves the air flow often creates a vacuum effect which literally sucks the smoke, lit cigarettes, butts, and even ashes into other balconies.

 

Thank you. What happens when you have all 4 windows down in a car and you spit out the front window? It goes right back into the back window. Besides, people act like balconies are so windy without taking into account the fact balconies are separated by vertical dividers that block the wind. And while the visible smoke might disappear, the stench does not. Wind doesn't just blow away stench. Heck, I've even had to switch my car A/C to recycle because I could smell the stench from a smoker in the car ahead of me.

[Aquahound]

I do not believe there is anyone,anywhere, who believes the air stands still, on a balcony, while the ship is sailing. So your straw man argument defies logic and, at the least, critical thinking ;) BTW, we only book a cabin with a balcony. This is the end of the discussion on my behalf. There is no need for me to continue. I've said/written my opinion...

 

You may think it's your opinion, your logic or your critical thinking, but the fact is, you're still wrong. Still air on balconies is a fact, not an opinion. Unless you have a broadside wind, the dividers between the balconies most certainly do block the wind.

[POA1]

Thank you. What happens when you have all 4 windows down in a car and you spit out the front window? It goes right back into the back window.

 

As much as I hate participating in this thread, I hate bad science. If the car is sitting still or going slowly, the sputum** goes out the window, and does not hit the car. At very high speeds, it blows back onto the driver. At intermediate speeds, the sputum will blow back into the rear window.

 

However, there are a lot of dependencies: Shape of the vehicle's drag envelope, vehicle drag coefficient, size and shape of the windows, external wind forces (relative velocity & vector,) and of course, sputum expulsion force. A motor vehicle, moving at highway speeds, is a poor analog for a ship.

 

Don't even get me started on the "all four windows" thing. When was the last time you were in a cabin that was open to the outside on both port and starboard?

 

**Scientific term for loogie.

[Cruzaholic41]

As much as I hate participating in this thread, I hate bad science. If the car is sitting still or going slowly, the sputum** goes out the window, and does not hit the car. At very high speeds, it blows back onto the driver. At intermediate speeds, the sputum will blow back into the rear window.

 

Spit is also liquid, unlike cig smoke. I for one did get the metaphor though.

[Ky Colonel]

I suggest you approach it like telling someone their fly is open... I only care about other people smoking when it encroaches on me, particularly my airspace and my lungs.

 

While I agree with your conclusion above, I don't think your analogy applies. IMO telling a man that his fly is open (if done tactfully) should always be considered a favor. On the other had, telling a person that his/her cologne/perfume is too strong IMO would seldom be considered a favor by that person ... so I guess I'll just have to "grin and bear it" ...

[zerbot]

While I agree with your conclusion above, I don't think your analogy applies. IMO telling a man that his fly is open (if done tactfully) should always be considered a favor. On the other had, telling a person that his/her cologne/perfume is too strong IMO would seldom be considered a favor by that person ... so I guess I'll just have to "grin and bear it" ...

 

So evidently, my actual experience in having done so is once again set aside in favor of "how the world should be even though I haven't tried it". I suppose it fits given that you don't appear to believe that people *really* have a problem with smoking, it's all just part of some axe to grind to ruin things.

 

Of course, tact is important, and if I can move seats discreetly to avoid the issue, I do. But if it comes to an issue with "oh, no dear, come sit by me" or something like that then I will tactfully and as privately as I can explain the issue. This equally applies to those who get migraines from it, or those who would prefer to smell and taste their food at a meal, or hell, even just, "well, I just prefer the pine scent of the woods we're in." If we're talking about someone on a nearby verandah, you might humorously say something about thinking the fish had taken up using Old Spice. Remember, they don't usually know how strong it is, and will very likely be surprised you can smell it that far away.

[sail7seas]

Denial is a beautiful thing. We humans are so good at rationalizing most anything we wish. If an otherwise considerate person is determined they are going to smoke on their verandah, they feel better about themselves to think those who are bothered are neurotic fools exaggerating their discomfort and the strong stench they are being subjected to. It makes them excuse doing what many people have explained to them happens to some (many ) non-smokers when exposed to their smoke. They permit themselves to deny there could be any reality to these complaints. IMO

 

Edited June 1, 2015 by sail7seas

[Ky Colonel]

... you don't appear to believe that people *really* have a problem with smoking, it's all just part of some axe to grind to ruin things...

 

zerbot, I have no idea how you came to conclude that I don't "believe that people *really* have a problem with smoking" or that I think "it's all just part of some axe to grind to ruin things", but I can assure that you are mistaken on both counts!!! If you go back and re-read my posts on here, maybe you can point me to the one(s) from which you drew those inferences. Not looking to pick a fight, just wanting to clear up any misconceptions you may have ...

[zerbot]

zerbot, I have no idea how you came to conclude that I don't "believe that people *really* have a problem with smoking" or that I think "it's all just part of some axe to grind to ruin things", but I can assure that you are mistaken on both counts!!! If you go back and re-read my posts on here, maybe you can point me to the one(s) from which you drew those inferences. Not looking to pick a fight, just wanting to clear up any misconceptions you may have ...

 

My apologies. I had you mixed up with the other fellow. It's usually only one source doing the "your experience is invalid because derp" thing, and I didn't check to make sure it wasn't actually two people doing that.

[Ky Colonel]

My apologies. I had you mixed up with the other fellow. It's usually only one source doing the "your experience is invalid because derp" thing, and I didn't check to make sure it wasn't actually two people doing that.

 

zerbot, Apology received and accepted. Glad to see that I had not offended you.

[BruceMuzz]

After over 2000 responses on over 100 pages with this subject, one might want to guess how many people have changed their views on smoking as a result of all the time and effort volunteered here by so many people.

 

My guess would be zero.

[POA1]

After over 2000 responses on over 100 pages with this subject, one might want to guess how many people have changed their views on smoking as a result of all the time and effort volunteered here by so many people.

 

My guess would be zero.

I was thinking 7.

[Cantorindahouse]

after over 2000 responses on over 100 pages with this subject, one might want to guess how many people have changed their views on smoking as a result of all the time and effort volunteered here by so many people.

 

My guess would be zero.

 

" " "

[Aquahound]

After over 2000 responses on over 100 pages with this subject, one might want to guess how many people have changed their views on smoking as a result of all the time and effort volunteered here by so many people.

 

My guess would be zero.

 

That's not the point. Look at the social media uproar when NCL made a new rule that food cannot be taken away from any dining facility including the buffet. There was enough internet backlash to make NCL reverse the new policy. Same thing happened several years ago regarding RCI's loyalty program. If enough people speak up about this, and continue to speak up, HAL may eventually listen...just like all the other lines did. I, for one, will not stop telling HAL how I feel about this issue until they ban smoking on balconies.