This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[Aquahound]

Think about it! The Ship is moving at 16 - 18 knots and even in Ports (unless in a very, hot humid one) there is air movement. Cigarette Smoke does not carry more than 3 - 4 feet before it dissipates. If by some chance you get a brief whiff of one if someone is standing at the rail, it's not actually in your face if you're not within a few feet of them!

 

You are so very wrong with this. If it was as simple as you put it and smoke (and the smell associated with it) just blew away and dissipated after 3-4 feet, all these smoking threads over the years on Cruise Critic would never have existed. But it doesn't, and so they do exist. The actual observable smoke might dissipate quickly, but the stench does not.

[Hlitner]

Some smokers tend to minimize the impact their habit has on others...and this is especially true on balconies. The movement of the ship and flow of air currents often creates a vacuum effect which sucks smoke back towards the ship and many other balconies. This is the reason why HAL (and other cruise lines) begs smokers to never toss a cigarette (or cigar) overboard. The most likely cause of the massive fire on the (with a fatality) was a lit cigarette being sucked back onto a passenger balcony. The smoke also gets sucked back onto balconies. We are not surprised that smokers claim they cannot smell smoke on their balconies as studies show that smokers lose some of their sense of smell.

 

The reality is that many smokers simply reek of smoke! Get onto an elevator with a smoker and the entire elevator will often smell of smoke (the odor is in their clothes). The smokers generally have no clue because they are so used to the smelly odor that they no longer notice.

 

 

Hank

Edited April 29, 2015 by Hlitner

[cruz chic]

Some smokers tend to minimize the impact their habit has on others...and this is especially true on balconies. The movement of the ship and flow of air currents often creates a vacuum effect which sucks smoke back towards the ship and many other balconies. This is the reason why HAL (and other cruise lines) begs smokers to never toss a cigarette (or cigar) overboard. The most likely cause of the massive fire on the (with a fatality) was a lit cigarette being sucked back onto a passenger balcony. The smoke also gets sucked back onto balconies. We are not surprised that smokers claim they cannot smell smoke on their balconies as studies show that smokers lose some of their sense of smell.

 

The reality is that many smokers simply reek of smoke! Get onto an elevator with a smoker and the entire elevator will often smell of smoke (the odor is in their clothes). The smokers generally have no clue because they are so used to the smelly odor that they no longer notice.

 

 

Hank

 

Is that ever true. I've been in elevators when no one was in them and they reeked of smoke. I'm embarrassed when someone walks in and thinks the stench is from me.

[serendipity1499]

I'm confused, aren't you a smoker? How could you smell smoke when you smoke yourself?

 

Once upon a time I was a two pack a day smoker.. My DH did not smoke but I was always able to smell another smoker.. I would never smoke in our car or allow anyone else to smoke in the car..

 

When our Son came home at 16 & I smelled smoke on him., I realized that I could not disapprove of his smoking if I smoked myself.. So I stopped for one day, then the next day & the next day & the next day.. I could not say to DH that I was stopping smoking, because that seemed too difficult for me.. For one whole year I stopped only for one day until I could say I was no longer buying cigarettes & smoking at home or in the office..

 

However, years later when I was at our Son's & Daughter-in-law 's home they would go out on their porch for a smoke after dinner.. That's when I craved a cigarette the most & sometimes asked to have just one cigarette with them..:eek: And it would only be one..

 

That too continued for a year or so, until l could honestly say I was no longer a smoker.. yeah!:D:D:D

 

When I bowled, with others who smoked, I would come home & peel off my clothes & put them in the washing machine to soak.. Then I would hop in the shower & wash my hair as I could not stand the smell of smoke on myself..:eek::(

 

Edited April 29, 2015 by serendipity1499

[kennicott]

Is that ever true. I've been in elevators when no one was in them and they reeked of smoke. I'm embarrassed when someone walks in and thinks the stench is from me.

 

I spend my summers in the Wrangell mountains here in Alaska. I have a lot of acres and a nice sized wilderness cabin. Some years back good friends gave me some couch's from their home as they were selling out. They were both hard core smokers every since their early teens. I was out in the bush when that happened, wife in town, so they brought the couches over and put them in our garage. They stunk up the entire house. My wife laid the law down for me to get in and get them. I did, when I got them out to bush I couldn't use them in the cabin. I covered them with tarps outdoors. My daughter found some stuff, powder, that we used and after about a year they smelled tolerable. Then I put them inside, winter was coming so I wouldn't be there anyway. By spring you could stand it. :rolleyes:

[serendipity1499]

I spend my summers in the Wrangell mountains here in Alaska. I have a lot of acres and a nice sized wilderness cabin. Some years back good friends gave me some couch's from their home as they were selling out. They were both hard core smokers every since their early teens. I was out in the bush when that happened, wife in town, so they brought the couches over and put them in our garage. They stunk up the entire house. My wife laid the law down for me to get in and get them. I did, when I got them out to bush I couldn't use them in the cabin. I covered them with tarps outdoors. My daughter found some stuff, powder, that we used and after about a year they smelled tolerable. Then I put them inside, winter was coming so I wouldn't be there anyway. By spring you could stand it. :rolleyes:

 

Bet your daughter used baking soda to get rid of the smell.. Guess she probably had to use quite a bit of it.. I've done that with books, but in a sealed zip-lock bag for a week or so..

[ithaca gal]

Good try but no cigar. This is a good example of the typical "strawman subterfuge" used often in political discourse.

 

"To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument. The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition."

 

In this case, the strawman argument is that their exists only a handful of posters attempting to foster hate and discontent. So, "move along folks, nothing to see here."

 

Rather, what we have going here on this thread, now approaching 2000 posts, is concern by a significant number of HAL faithful over a recent development impacting HAL, which originates from all the other major cruise lines discontinuing the practice of allowing balcony smoking. Since it is such a recent development it obviously is going to take a bit of time for cruisers, both smokers and non, to figure out what is going on. But if one wades through these posts it will become clear that there is significant evidence already that smokers are booking HAL in order to enjoy a cigarette or cigar or pipe on the balcony, for which they paid "dearly".

 

This isn't the only thread or forum involved with similar discourse. Reading some of the other threads it is clear that quite a number of cruisers are not yet aware of the new smoking policies. So it is going to take some time for the word to get out. For instance: On C.C. there has been a least two other threads dealing with questions similar to "Should we take HAL or ????" Of course, HAL's smoking issue arises all the time there. Just in recent days a long time cruiser posted this in response to those questioning HAL smoking, on one of those other threads:

 

"Sorry, that is very dated information. HAL like Princess no longer allows smoking in their cabins or balcony's---- I feel if you're going to post and answer questions you should be able to give correct information, and not old and out dated incorrect information swayed by your personal prejudices."

 

Now, that statement just serves to illustrate how many are still uniformed about this HAL smoking situation. Of course, this guy received, what do you call it--a "flame" job? Example:

 

"Wow, this post of yours was quite the fail. It's one thing to be wrong..we all do it from time to time...but it's another to lecture someone else and be so condescending while being wrong. HAL definitely still allows balcony smoking. Take your own advice."

 

Testy, testy, indeed. Going to get worse, I'm afraid folks.

 

Thank you for the explanation of the "straw man" argument. I had heard the phrase and kinda knew what it meant (from my son) but hadn't really Googled the complete explanation!

[meduza]

Let's make cruises on which you can not use perfumes, many people are allergic to strong perfume !!! ( like myself). If somebody near me have a strong perfume, I just step away .

And how about the ban on alcoholic drinks ?

One who does not drink alcohol, just feel its smell,and it's not very pleasant too :D:D

[CRUZBUDS]

Well we love HAL anyway but also like Princess and Cunard a lot. Those are our first three choices but we have also taken many carnival RCL, NCL and celebrity if the itinerary and price are right. If HAL goes non smoking then for us it is just the best overall cruise and not the line.

 

Makes sense -- It will be a level playing field -- We've enjoyed all of lines we've cruised on. Our next four cruises are on four different lines. :)

 

Glad you're not going to become a landlubber ;)

[galensgrl]

Let's make cruises on which you can not use perfumes, many people are allergic to strong perfume !!! ( like myself). If somebody near me have a strong perfume, I just step away .

And how about the ban on alcoholic drinks ?

One who does not drink alcohol, just feel its smell,and it's not very pleasant too :D:D

 

I don't like the overpowering smell of too much fragrance on a person and it can affect some people, but I also think about how second hand smoke can cause lung cancer and emphysema if a person is forced to breathe it in for any length of time. As an ex-smoker I can just about tolerate a light whiff of cigarette or cigar smoke, but it really affects my asmathic DH who has never smoked. Too much and he literally can't breathe.

 

Hoping we don't get bombarded with second hand smoke on our balcony next week. Fingers crossed. :cool:

 

Lorie

Edited April 30, 2015 by galensgrl

[Trevor Fountain]

May I make a polite request? I see the Nieuw Amsterdam is departing from Venice on Monday. We will be there, probably eating in an open venue as she is sailing away. Could I respectfully ask that during your sailaway, you refrain from smoking on balconies and open decks, just until you reach the Adriatic. Venice is such a lovely place, it would be such a shame to witness the sight of a sailing ashtray, and smoke polluted air.

Thank you for your anticipated co-operation.

[dalmrl]

I politely show you this:

 

Smoking: in Italy, more than 20% of population smokes and the government passed anti-smoke laws (that teenagers are often able to avoid) more recently than in the USA. It's forbidden to smoke in public spaces such as restaurants but not in the outside. In Italy, there are no smoke free areas and, although smoking when standing by a person at the bus stop can be very irritating, there's nothing forbidding people to do that. Just take a deep breath and distance from the person. When talking to a local, if he is about to smoke and offers you a cigarette, just reply politely "No, thanks" and don't be offended by his behaviour: to an Italian, it would be very rude to light a cigarette and not to offer one to the person they're talking to.

[Trevor Fountain]

I politely show you this:

 

Smoking: in Italy, more than 20% of population smokes and the government passed anti-smoke laws (that teenagers are often able to avoid) more recently than in the USA. It's forbidden to smoke in public spaces such as restaurants but not in the outside. In Italy, there are no smoke free areas and, although smoking when standing by a person at the bus stop can be very irritating, there's nothing forbidding people to do that. Just take a deep breath and distance from the person. When talking to a local, if he is about to smoke and offers you a cigarette, just reply politely "No, thanks" and don't be offended by his behaviour: to an Italian, it would be very rude to light a cigarette and not to offer one to the person they're talking to.

 

Thank you. That is interesting. TBF I was being totally tongue in cheek, and have travelled many times to Italy. I am surprised that only 20% of the population smoke. I really thought it would be much higher than that.

Happy cruising.

[kennicott]

According to the most recent numbers (WHO--2008) I can find, 32.8% of the men and 19.2% of the women in Italy smoke tobacco. In the U.S. it is 26.3% men vs. 21.5% women. But look at Russia!---70.1% Men and 26.5% women--Whew.

 

I don't recall, during all our travels, anybody ever offering me a cigarette anywhere. I do remember folks doing so in the US but that had to be at least 6 decades back.

 

A while back there was considerable discussion regarding these numbers on this thread on cruise ships. If I recall correctly, for those lines with relatively similar passenger demographics, it was likely to be between 5%-8%. Of course that wouldn't necessarily include HAL now, since they are the only line to allow balcony smoking.

[albingirl]

Let's make cruises on which you can not use perfumes, many people are allergic to strong perfume !!! ( like myself). If somebody near me have a strong perfume, I just step away .

And how about the ban on alcoholic drinks ?

One who does not drink alcohol, just feel its smell,and it's not very pleasant too :D:D

 

It always diverts to this, doesn't it.

[Fizzer59]

I had a friend who used to respond to that argument by saying "Please go ahead and smoke next to me but only if you don't mind if I blow my beer in your face ?"

[corkpopr]

In Italy a few months ago we went to a restaurant with ashtrays on half the tables. Posted at least six places on the restaurant walls were signs that said no smoking. I asked our server if the health dept. doesn't give them trouble. She pointed to another table with two guys in suits eating and smoking at the same time. She said they work for the health department!!!

 

Oh well, TII (this is Italy)

[mamaofami]

Yesterday I went to visit a very old and close friend who has stage 4 lung cancer that metastasized to her brain. After chemo and radiation to the brain, there's not much left they can do for her.

 

She was a chain smoker for many many years, and had a hacking cough for at least 20 years. She was diagnosed about a year ago and is close to dying. Of course, now she stopped smoking as soon as the diagnosis was made. I left crying because it was so hard to see what is happening to her.

[cl.klink]

Yesterday I went to visit a very old and close friend who has stage 4 lung cancer that metastasized to her brain. After chemo and radiation to the brain, there's not much left they can do for her.

 

She was a chain smoker for many many years, and had a hacking cough for at least 20 years. She was diagnosed about a year ago and is close to dying. Of course, now she stopped smoking as soon as the diagnosis was made. I left crying because it was so hard to see what is happening to her.

 

Perspective.

- Joel

[albingirl]

Yesterday I went to visit a very old and close friend who has stage 4 lung cancer that metastasized to her brain. After chemo and radiation to the brain, there's not much left they can do for her.

 

She was a chain smoker for many many years, and had a hacking cough for at least 20 years. She was diagnosed about a year ago and is close to dying. Of course, now she stopped smoking as soon as the diagnosis was made. I left crying because it was so hard to see what is happening to her.

 

Sorry to hear you are experiencing this. This is why we strongly dislike the habit. We know it's terribly addictive, but it generally is something we don't care to deal with on cruises, or for that matter, anywhere. We dearly wish Holland America would get with the majority of most of the United States restaurants and hotels and make it easier for us nonsmokers to breathe fresh air. It's not rocket science. Get some decent indoor space for your smokers and leave us verandah people with fresh air. I always really hate hearing about people dying of the habit, but in the meantime, wishing that those of us who are still living could enjoy the cruise a bit more.

[kennicott]

Sorry to hear you are experiencing this. This is why we strongly dislike the habit. We know it's terribly addictive, but it generally is something we don't care to deal with on cruises, or for that matter, anywhere. We dearly wish Holland America would get with the majority of most of the United States restaurants and hotels and make it easier for us nonsmokers to breathe fresh air. It's not rocket science. Get some decent indoor space for your smokers and leave us verandah people with fresh air. I always really hate hearing about people dying of the habit, but in the meantime, wishing that those of us who are still living could enjoy the cruise a bit more.

 

Amen!

[Jo3]

We were pleasantly surprised to find the Nice casino " non smoking". They have a room for the smokers. Maybe HAL could adopt this plan.

[GeriatricNurse]

We were pleasantly surprised to find the Nice casino " non smoking". They have a room for the smokers. Maybe HAL could adopt this plan.

 

Apparantly, the Casinos onboard the Celebrity (X) ships are entirely NON-SMOKING! :) And, last I checked, X has not, as yet, gone out of business as a result! ;)

[cruiseing marly]

Not effected by smoke on our balcony on the Nieuw Amsterdam . Although people are smoking without gambling in the casino ! I'm sure that's not allowed

[Cantorindahouse]

Just returned from our second cruise to Alaska. This time on Celebrity's Millenium which does not allow inside smoking. I occasionally enjoy a cigar. I felt bad for those folks who were remanded to the outside on a cold and damp deck ten. They are being treated lepers or as second class citizens. I had one cigar on this 10 night cruise and I was OK with that.

When we cruised on Holland America's Westerdam, last year, I was able to enjoy a cigar on our verandah whenever I felt the urge. I can understand smoke being a problem inside but while cruising, with about a 20 knot wind blowing outside, how does it harm anyone's health? A few people have a problem with the cigar odor, which in my case is pure, natural tobacco. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread; there are some women, and men, who take a bath in perfume and/or cologne I feel very uncomfortable just walking past the OB synthetic perfume/cologne shop,I don't see anyone closing those shops down. :confused: How about being "surrounded" by AxE or Opium on an elevator? :eek:

 

I hope Holland continues to give people the option to have a smoke on their verandah, considering; it is not a criminal offence,yet, to smoke. BTW, we have had people stumble and fall onto our table or become boistoous while we were relaxing and enjoying a Diet Coke. On one ocasion a woman just about landed in my lap. The woman gets up and walks away. No disciplinary action taken:rolleyes: I guess it's OK to "stumble" although the loss of "sea legs" has nothing to do the motion of the boat but the disparity of alcohol to blood level. Light up a pipe, cigar or cigarette on a Millenium verandah and you're made to; "walk the plank" and all money lost! Go figure? Live and Let Live!