Is class distinction alive and well on X?

[Anubi]

Thanks Chunky2219.

 

Your comments are right on.

 

The current cruise industry is modeling their ships and on board experience as in the days of the liners. The industry is working hard to segment passengers based on willingness to pay - not ability to pay since cruising is more affordable for all vs the days of the liners.

 

The physical layout of ships, the increasing restrictions of access to internal space, and on board experience is Exactly as per the age of the liners.

 

This current trend is the abandonment of the original philosophy of the early cruise industry - 1 ship and everyone has same experience other than size and fit and finish of the cabin.

 

The early pioneers of the cruise industry passed judgement on Cunard and the French line for their "classes". The early cruise executive were joyful in 76 when the SS France was taken out of service.

 

 

Frankly there are many posters on CC that are living with legacy thinking regarding Cunard and its "classes". Folks, "classes" today are linked to $ not social strata as in the days of the liners.

 

X is rapidly becoming "class" as Cunard - but way beyond Cunard based on contrasting my recent X experiences and my 2 wonderful recent trips on Cunard. On Cunard there is limited physical space limitations for Cunard Grill class vs on X there is the growing number of restricted spaces and loss of use during the day of common space for loyalty segmented activities during the day. On X, guests are required to leave public space for loyalty events. On Cunard no one talked about their "class". On the Cunard boards I have not seen posters self identify as Grill class the way some posters on this board do to self identify as Elite etc.

 

My pre conceived notions of Cunard were eliminated once aboard where their ships were welcoming and guests so friendly. Cunard has a great product.

 

I hope people can wean themselves away from X and other lines and experience the choices in the industry.

 

X is deliberately moving to a highly segmented and restricted model of delivery which is very much like the liners of the past. But X is not alone, NCL and their Haven is more evidence of the end of the original cruising model.

 

ABoatNerd

 

Thank you, I could not have said it better.

[thebutlerdidit]

So my question to loyal Celebrity cruisers who feel that there is increasing class distinctions is, what are you going to do in response to the introduction of Suite Class? Will you continue to sail with Celebrity?

 

Yes, and in our first suite.

[ghstudio]

So my question to loyal Celebrity cruisers who feel that there is increasing class distinctions is, what are you going to do in response to the introduction of Suite Class? Will you continue to sail with Celebrity?

 

Sure, as long as the change doesn't impact me significantly. When they start to rope off pool chairs or a section of the martini bar, I might think about changing. We never went into michael's club and since we almost always book aqua, losing part of the select dining room area has no effect on us. We don't like the front rows of the theater.....so suite class isn't currently an issue.

 

Full disclosure: we are already changing to the next tier of cruise lines but not due to suite class. More due to the overall sum of the cutbacks in the past few years. I accept that we have to pay more to maintain the "old Celebrity level of service and food standards"...we just have to leave celebrity to do it. We're elite plus (with no vision of ever getting to Zenith) so probably we are not the folks Celebrity wants to lose...but they make their business decisions and we decide where we want to spend our $'s.

[Christine Frances]

So when Cunard hosts their "World Club Cocktail Party" for their loyal cruisers, is it in a common area and anyone can go?:confused:

[grandgeezer]

Sure, as long as the change doesn't impact me significantly. When they start to rope off pool chairs or a section of the martini bar, I might think about changing. We never went into michael's club and since we almost always book aqua, losing part of the select dining room area has no effect on us. We don't like the front rows of the theater.....so suite class isn't currently an issue.

 

Full disclosure: we are already changing to the next tier of cruise lines but not due to suite class. More due to the overall sum of the cutbacks in the past few years. I accept that we have to pay more to maintain the "old Celebrity level of service and food standards"...we just have to leave celebrity to do it. We're elite plus (with no vision of ever getting to Zenith) so probably we are not the folks Celebrity wants to lose...but they make their business decisions and we decide where we want to spend our $'s.

 

We, also are Elite Plus and seriously leaving Celebrity for the same reasons mentioned above.We are more than willing to walk away from the free drinks, free laundry, free internet, etc, if things are the same, or worse, on the B2B we have scheduled on the Equinox next month. The final straw being the way Celebrity has mishandled their internet fiasco over the last month especially. It breaks our heart after 15 cruises. over 196 days with them, but we don't enjoy the experience with them anymore. We lay the cause squarely on the cutbacks made recently. We also have four cruises, covering 34 days on RCL. We left Princess, Norwegian, and HAL because they were like Celebrity is now. We are going to try a couple of the higher end cruise lines (we won't be able to go 2-4 times like we do now) and if it's the same there, we'll quit cruising. Everybody has their own expectations of what constitues a great cruise, and in our eyes, they aren't currently meeting them. All the more power if they are meeting yours.

[NLH Arizona]

We, also are Elite Plus and seriously leaving Celebrity for the same reasons mentioned above.We are more than willing to walk away from the free drinks, free laundry, free internet, etc, if things are the same, or worse, on the B2B we have scheduled on the Equinox next month. The final straw being the way Celebrity has mishandled their internet fiasco over the last month especially. It breaks our heart after 15 cruises. over 196 days with them, but we don't enjoy the experience with them anymore. We lay the cause squarely on the cutbacks made recently. We also have four cruises, covering 34 days on RCL. We left Princess, Norwegian, and HAL because they were like Celebrity is now. We are going to try a couple of the higher end cruise lines (we won't be able to go 2-4 times like we do now) and if it's the same there, we'll quit cruising. Everybody has their own expectations of what constitues a great cruise, and in our eyes, they aren't currently meeting them. All the more power if they are meeting yours.

Hope you find what you are looking for. You might want to give Crystal a try.

[Christine Frances]

What "internet fiasco"? On the ships?:confused:

[grandgeezer]

What "internet fiasco"? On the ships?:confused:

 

On the Silhouette going across the Atlantic this spring, and especially the fiasco going on with their web site for at least the last three weeks. I'm no computer expert but I'm betting that it's taking so long because of the cost.

Check the reviews for this crews. The internet didn't work properly for the first half of the cruise and people who bought the big internet packages didn't have time to use all the minutes unless they wanted to get on line at 2am. This was our fourth transatlantic and there wasn't even a whisper of problems on any of them.

[MGK]

Regarding "class" there is a great line from an 80s Rodney Dangerfield movie "Back to School."

 

The dialog is Rodney's character (playing a very mature college student) attempting to get a date with his very attractive female English professor.

 

Rodney: "So, how about dinner?"

 

Professor: "Sorry, I have class"

 

Rodney: "How about lunch?"

 

Professor: "Sorry, I have class"

 

Rodney: "Tell you what, why don't you call me when you don't have any class"

 

That said, manners, a sense of humor, and humility go a long way in this world. Snobs, and I've met a few on cruise ships (Celebrity included), really need to lighten up. Life is too short.

[Kevnzworld]

Celebrity introduced a class system with Aqua Class. Access to the Persian garden, Blu is limited to either AQ or Suite guests.

Soon Celebrity will introduce a dedicate suite only restaurant.

This trend will only continue, and expand as cruise lines like Celebrity see the profit potential in multi class tiered cruise options.

Unfortunately, all the new effort is now dedicated to either the new classes, or the new for extra $ venues, like the porch or the gastropub.

As a result the food in Oceanview and the MDR becomes more " tired " , as that's where it's easiest and most profitable to cut back....

[hulamoon]

I agree Kevinzword...the trend is continuing. I would sure like to see Blu get a bit more budget and service. It sells as a premium product but it's slightly tired.

[shipshape sam]

Celebrity is working to make more money.

 

They, like many companies, try to create 'value' for the increase in pricing and in differences of the offerings. I have NO problem with the different product/service classes. I struggle when the segregation becomes more public, like seats preserved for a class/category of passenger in a public venue. Also as the trend goes, the cruise lines have started taking more and more public spaces as they retrofit current ships. Some of this is not pure class/category system effort, but a profit motive.

 

Someone earlier mention that there is no class/category that is excluded for anyone willing to pay. There I agree. I do think the cruise lines are risking a lost of many loyal cruisers because we all tend to compare. For me, when I do not perceive "value" for my payment of class/category, then I will stop sailing.

[Ex-Airbalancer]

On the Silhouette going across the Atlantic this spring, and especially the fiasco going on with their web site for at least the last three weeks. I'm no computer expert but I'm betting that it's taking so long because of the cost.

Check the reviews for this crews. The internet didn't work properly for the first half of the cruise and people who bought the big internet packages didn't have time to use all the minutes unless they wanted to get on line at 2am. This was our fourth transatlantic and there wasn't even a whisper of problems on any of them.

 

I was on that cruise, the scares part was some people were yelling , at the people working in the computer area

 

It was a truly embarrassing watching grown people acting like 2 year olds

[d4m]

Sometimes it is about perception and people's attitude in everyday life. We had a couple on a cruise that had sailed every line, were retired as they had done so well (on and on), they didn't like this and that, but that didn't stop them also bragging about booking a disabled/accessible cabin a year out from sailing. When asked how could they do that, they just ticked the box online and were never asked for proof. No Class! End of story.

 

When we saw the guy two doors up from them that had to get out of his wheelchair in the hallway and was apologising for holding us up, he was all class. He was enjoying his cruise and had not one bad thing to say.

 

Class can come in many forms. People that think they are a class above, often are not.

 

Perfect and Bravo!

[Kevnzworld]

Celebrity is working to make more money.

 

They, like many companies, try to create 'value' for the increase in pricing and in differences of the offerings. I have NO problem with the different product/service classes. I struggle when the segregation becomes more public, like seats preserved for a class/category of passenger in a public venue. Also as the trend goes, the cruise lines have started taking more and more public spaces as they retrofit current ships. Some of this is not pure class/category system effort, but a profit motive.

 

Someone earlier mention that there is no class/category that is excluded for anyone willing to pay. There I agree. I do think the cruise lines are risking a lost of many loyal cruisers because we all tend to compare. For me, when I do not perceive "value" for my payment of class/category, then I will stop sailing.

 

It's the new cruise dynamic. As I recently posted, the CEO of RCL was recently on CNBC

He said that their business plan was to cut costs and expand revenues by 15% per year.. That translates into higher fares, and a diminished product for us the cruiser.

One hasn't any further to look than the now extinct MDR buffet, the new lower grade steaks in Tuscan Grill etc ....

The effort and money is going into the venues where they can increase revenue...suite restaurants, gastropubs, etc....

Edited September 18, 2014 by Kevnzworld

[hulamoon]

It's the new cruise dynamic. As I recently posted, the CEO of RCL was recently on CNBC

He said that their business plan was to cut costs and expand revenues by 15% per year.. That translates into higher fares, and a diminished product for us the cruiser.

One hasn't any further to look than the now extinct MDR buffet, the new lower grade steaks in Tuscan Grill etc ....

The effort and money is going into the venues where they can increase revenue...suite restaurants, gastropubs, etc....

 

My fares are up significantly more than 15 percent. It's too bad the cuts alre added to this plan.

[Kevnzworld]

My fares are up significantly more than 15 percent. It's too bad the cuts alre added to this plan.

 

I have found that fares have risen by approx 50% over the last three years.

That's about 15% annually.

Suite prices are now approaching $1000 per day on 2015 European cruises. That's why Celebrity is investing so much effort and money in the upper categories, while cutting back in the less profitable areas like the MDR ( ex grand buffet, etc ) and the Oceanview cafe.

Celebrity will continue to expand Class distinction with its new Captains club tiers which reward AQ and Suite class travel. Celebrity will also make any " new " products like the Gastropub a for pay Ala Carte product.

The AQ and Suite classes will get the better menus, with better food product as well.

[hulamoon]

I have found that fares have risen by approx 50% over the last three years.

That's about 15% annually.

Suite prices are now approaching $1000 per day on 2015 European cruises. That's why Celebrity is investing so much effort and money in the upper categories, while cutting back in the less profitable areas like the MDR ( ex grand buffet, etc ) and the Oceanview cafe.

Celebrity will continue to expand Class distinction with its new Captains club tiers which reward AQ and Suite class travel. Celebrity will also make any " new " products like the Gastropub a for pay Ala Carte product.

The AQ and Suite classes will get the better menus, with better food product as well.

 

Certainly we have all seen this on other lines. I would rather it stay above other premiums or what used to be premium. Probably will not be noticed by new cruisers or those who already think of the brand as on par with HAL or Princess. The pain, seems to be most significantly felt by those who wanted the quality to stay. We now fall into this category, choosing AQ or SS on most sailings. Our breaking point will likely be Blu.

[shipshape sam]

It's the new cruise dynamic. As I recently posted, the CEO of RCL was recently on CNBC

He said that their business plan was to cut costs and expand revenues by 15% per year.. That translates into higher fares, and a diminished product for us the cruiser.

One hasn't any further to look than the now extinct MDR buffet, the new lower grade steaks in Tuscan Grill etc ....

The effort and money is going into the venues where they can increase revenue...suite restaurants, gastropubs, etc....

 

You make a good point that in addition to higher prices for AQ and suites, they may have to dumb down the current product service to have sufficient differences in quality/product/service. I hope you are wrong though. Not sure what you mean by lower grade steaks in a Speciality restaurant like Tuscan Grill. I would think that is where they want to shine as they are asking for additional $$$ to eat there. I no longer even get a steak in MDR as it has been of a poor quality cut for me recently. Are you suggesting a 3 tier quality for steaks (by way of example):

first level: MDR

second level: speciality restaurants

third level: suite restaurants

 

They could start charging for towels at pool and include them in AQ or higher benefits. :rolleyes:

Edited September 18, 2014 by shipshape sam

[hulamoon]

In our option Tiscan and Murano have had some budget cuts. We will eat there, but not as often and not with the same glowing enthusiasm of 2011 and 2012.

[shot2bits]

Celebrity introduced a class system with Aqua Class. Access to the Persian garden, Blu is limited to either AQ or Suite guests.

 

Soon Celebrity will introduce a dedicate suite only restaurant.

 

This trend will only continue, and expand as cruise lines like Celebrity see the profit potential in multi class tiered cruise options.

 

Unfortunately, all the new effort is now dedicated to either the new classes, or the new for extra $ venues, like the porch or the gastropub.

 

As a result the food in Oceanview and the MDR becomes more " tired " , as that's where it's easiest and most profitable to cut back....

 

 

So the 'class system' is alive and well then?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[ghstudio]

You make a good point that in addition to higher prices for AQ and suites, they may have to dumb down the current product service to have sufficient differences in quality/product/service. I hope you are wrong though. Not sure what you mean by lower grade steaks in a Speciality restaurant like Tuscan Grill. I would think that is where they want to shine as they are asking for additional $$$ to eat there. I no longer even get a steak in MDR as it has been of a poor quality cut for me recently. Are you suggesting a 3 tier quality for steaks (by way of example):

first level: MDR

second level: speciality restaurants

third level: suite restaurants

 

They could start charging for towels at pool and include them in AQ or higher benefits. :rolleyes:

 

When a company goes on an expense cutting binge, everything suffers so yes, they try to take cost out of the specialty restaurants (and increase the prices). I don't expect three qualities of steak....just two....and I agree that ordering the MDR/Blu everyday steak is not a recommended choice. They keep racheting down costs and likely that the buzz in celebrity HQ is that customers don't notice and profits are up...all's great....which makes for great presentations, raises, etc. At some point, you cant' squeeze any more and suddenly your competitors have improved their offerings and you can't fill your ships at the same avg per cabin price and so on. It's a normal business cycle. I'm sure Mr Bayley's staff isn't finished cutting and they have some more revenue increases on the list. And remember that IT is an expense center.....

Edited September 18, 2014 by ghstudio

[shipshape sam]

When a company goes on an expense cutting binge, everything suffers so yes, they try to take cost out of the specialty restaurants (and increase the prices). I don't expect three qualities of steak....just two....and I agree that ordering the MDR/Blu everyday steak is not a recommended choice. They keep racheting down costs and likely that the buzz in celebrity HQ is that customers don't notice and profits are up...all's great....which makes for great presentations, raises, etc. At some point, you cant' squeeze any more and suddenly your competitors have improved their offerings and you can't fill your ships at the same avg per cabin price and so on. It's a normal business cycle. I'm sure Mr Bayley's staff isn't finished cutting and they have some more revenue increases on the list. And remember that IT is an expense center.....

 

Would you not think that, in general, the competition is doing the same thing? i.e. cutting expenses vs improving their offerings at no additional price point. Even if they are not on the exact same time table or business cycle, I would be very surprised to see other cruise companies not cutting expenses at least selectively over a broad range of products and services. When I ran a business, we were always asking (in general terms) does the customer value this product/service or are we spending money on something that has no or very little value to the customer.

 

As to your point about more cutting and price increases, I am sure you are correct!

 

I still would suggest there are 3 tiers of product/service that are evolving:

 

tier one: cost of basic cruise fare

tier two: onboard add ons

tier three: inclusive

 

For sure even the inclusive passenger (my example would be a suite guest) will also have some things in both tier one and two. As to my steak example, I would really be upset if my suite restaurant steak is the same steak as is being suggested as now being served in the Tuscan Grill if it has been downgraded.

[Kevnzworld]

You make a good point that in addition to higher prices for AQ and suites, they may have to dumb down the current product service to have sufficient differences in quality/product/service. I hope you are wrong though. Not sure what you mean by lower grade steaks in a Speciality restaurant like Tuscan Grill. I would think that is where they want to shine as they are asking for additional $$$ to eat there. I no longer even get a steak in MDR as it has been of a poor quality cut for me recently. Are you suggesting a 3 tier quality for steaks (by way of example):

first level: MDR

second level: speciality restaurants

third level: suite restaurants

 

They could start charging for towels at pool and include them in AQ or higher benefits. :rolleyes:

 

When I sailed on the Reflection in April we noticed the menu changes in the Tuscan Grill. My GF ordered a a steak, which cut I can't remember. She had had it many times before in Tuscan Grill. . The steak was thin and tough, We complained to the Maître D/ host who gave us the following reply: ( I kid you not )

". Yes, I've heard that before since we changed meat vendors. If you think the steak is cut too thin you can order two, and stack them. ".

 

There are three class levels.

1) Veranda/MDR/ Oceanview cafe. This is the area where most of the cutbacks seem to be occurring. Anyone that's dined at the Oceanview madhouse can attest to that.

2) Aqua class. This class gets to eat in Blu except for lunch. The quality of Blu has declined substantially IMO since I first sailed in AQ almost three years ago.

The pecan crusted duck remains the single worst food product on the ocean.

3) Suite class. This newly created class now will have a dedicated restaurant for all meals. Priority seating at shows, and other perks.

We are in a suite for the upcoming B2B cruise in October, but prior to the new restaurant unfortunately.

Suite prices are rising the fastest and present Celebrity with possibly their best profit margins, hence that where the effort is being spent.

Suites for Europe 2015 are going for almost $1000 per night, which for a mid level cruiseline like Celebrity, is a lot, so I'm migrating to a fourth class...

A different more upscale cruiseline, for the same $

[seaman11]

well i should think if one goes on this type of cruise and doesnt dress appropriately there will be some looks.