Unfortunate Events with Fellow Passengers

[TeaBag]

So sad your friends had to meet the bad apple in the barrel right off. There are so many wonderful people who sail on Celebrity. Glad you made the best of it and enjoyed your cruise.

[wwcruisers]

Sometimes people talk first and think later. On our last cruise, a woman was very tentative getting in the pool. She told another woman that she was worried about getting in over her head. I tried to reassure her that the salinity level would help keep her afloat and she shouldn't worry. What I didn't know was she had a phobia about water and was truly terrified. She was very loud about telling her friend about my comment.

I meant well but I should have kept my mouth shut.

 

LOL, Patty -- Sounds like that line from comedian Ron White: "I had the right to remain silent, but I did not have the ability..." :D

And, I wouldn't worry too much about it. That lady most likely had more problems than a fear of water -- and you were just trying to help.

Edited January 30, 2015 by wwcruisers

[bikerunner]

Based partially on my recommendation, a fellow colleague took her family on cruise on the Summit right before the holidays. It was a much needed break for her, husband and two kids (6 & 8). Yesterday, I asked how the cruise went and she told me that they enjoyed Celebrity and the ship but were underwhelmed by the fellow passengers. One incident was them derogatory racial remarks about their family because they are an interracial family. It was pretty coarse so I won't repeat it. The second was a fellow passenger telling her husband while waiting to board the ship that they should have taken their kids on Disney and not Celebrity. The person, with the kids within earshot, told him that they would have a miserable time.

 

I feel bad for them. Why do people have to rain on other peoples parades.

 

I would laugh at them, the people who said the comment. Its simple minded/close minded people who need to focus on themselves. Look at it his way I would bet they complained about everything. Your freind had a great time I really do not pay attention to other people anymore. Personally I know many people who have taken there children on Celebrity and they had a great time. There are to many people who feel they know what is best for everyone and are so close minded that they do not know what is best for themselves. Okay sorry for my rant.

[junetraveler2014]

We can only hope and pray that one day the wrongs people perpetrate on one and other will cease to exist. We all belong to the human race!

[DYKWIA]

As for reporting them? Not sure what the charges would be? Ignornace?:eek:

 

If this happend in Europe there is quite a bit of scope to bring charges. We have quite a bit of legislation that could be used from public Order offences to specific racial hatred ones and a lot of the legislation has been beefed up in recent years - one such example (there are several others) if the offender demonstrates to the victim hostility based on the victim's membership (or presumed membership) of a racial or religious group - hostility can have a very low threshold and can be a simple as being "unfriendly".

 

A conviction in 2007 was upheld by our higher courts in the case of someone, during a verbal argument, calling three people "bloody foreigners" and telling them "to go back to your own country" - quite a low threshold!

 

A common argument is that this is against Free Speech. This is a non starter in Europe -under the European Convention on Human Rights Freedom of Speech is only a qualified right not an absolute rght.

[Cruzaholic41]

Based partially on my recommendation, a fellow colleague took her family on cruise on the Summit right before the holidays. It was a much needed break for her, husband and two kids (6 & 8). Yesterday, I asked how the cruise went and she told me that they enjoyed Celebrity and the ship but were underwhelmed by the fellow passengers. One incident was them derogatory racial remarks about their family because they are an interracial family. It was pretty coarse so I won't repeat it. The second was a fellow passenger telling her husband while waiting to board the ship that they should have taken their kids on Disney and not Celebrity. The person, with the kids within earshot, told him that they would have a miserable time.

 

I feel bad for them. Why do people have to rain on other peoples parades.

 

That's the least of what I've seen. At least those were just rude comments. I'd take stupid comments any day over the actions I've seen on board.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not discounting your story. It still sucks. But the way people act on cruises is one huge reason I very rarely cruise Carnival anymore and will never cruise NCL again. My tolerance of stupidity has reached it's max (that could also be because I live in perhaps the rudest city on the planet). You still see stupid thing on Celebrity, but not nearly as much as the cheapo lines.

[parallax]

That's the least of what I've seen. At least those were just rude comments. I'd take stupid comments any day over the actions I've seen on board.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not discounting your story. It still sucks. But the way people act on cruises is one huge reason I very rarely cruise Carnival anymore and will never cruise NCL again. My tolerance of stupidity has reached it's max (that could also be because I live in perhaps the rudest city on the planet). You still see stupid thing on Celebrity, but not nearly as much as the cheapo lines.

 

I will have to say that the worst incident or conduct that I ever saw was on an Oceania cruise. We were sitting at the lounge at the top of the ship while we were pulling out Istanbul and one of the passenger's treatment of a server, who was taking care of other passengers who had just arrived earlier, including us, was just despicable. She didn't want to sit down until the chairs had been reorganized. The husbands in the group started to move the chairs but the woman told them to stop as that is what the staff is for. She yelled for the server to come over immediately. He said he would be over in a minute or two one he had finished delivering the drinks. She then proceeded to go over to the bar area where he was loading drinks onto his tray and started to berate and curse him out. This woman looked like she was going to pop a blood vessel she was so angry. Her husband went and pulled her away. They stood for 5 minutes more until the server could move the chairs to her liking. Our group gave her the evil eye and made comments about the rude nature of people. We said it loud enough for them to overhear. My father-in-law ended up giving the waiter a $20 bill to server and said to him "a-holes".

[Queen of Oakville]

If this happend in Europe there is quite a bit of scope to bring charges. We have quite a bit of legislation that could be used from public Order offences to specific racial hatred ones and a lot of the legislation has been beefed up in recent years - one such example (there are several others) if the offender demonstrates to the victim hostility based on the victim's membership (or presumed membership) of a racial or religious group - hostility can have a very low threshold and can be a simple as being "unfriendly".

 

A conviction in 2007 was upheld by our higher courts in the case of someone, during a verbal argument, calling three people "bloody foreigners" and telling them "to go back to your own country" - quite a low threshold!

 

A common argument is that this is against Free Speech. This is a non starter in Europe -under the European Convention on Human Rights Freedom of Speech is only a qualified right not an absolute rght.

 

 

 

Very interesting. I can see how that would be abused - especially with the low threshold definition of hostility. Based on the OP's explanation of the situation, I can't say that it was hostile, although the OP has not shared much information on the actual comment made.

 

I still maintain that the cruiseline/port authorities would not get involved because I doubt they have any training/guidelines on how to handle such as situation. If the situation escalated to violence, the would know how to deal with it.

[Queen of Oakville]

I will have to say that the worst incident or conduct that I ever saw was on an Oceania cruise. We were sitting at the lounge at the top of the ship while we were pulling out Istanbul and one of the passenger's treatment of a server, who was taking care of other passengers who had just arrived earlier, including us, was just despicable. She didn't want to sit down until the chairs had been reorganized. The husbands in the group started to move the chairs but the woman told them to stop as that is what the staff is for. She yelled for the server to come over immediately. He said he would be over in a minute or two one he had finished delivering the drinks. She then proceeded to go over to the bar area where he was loading drinks onto his tray and started to berate and curse him out. This woman looked like she was going to pop a blood vessel she was so angry. Her husband went and pulled her away. They stood for 5 minutes more until the server could move the chairs to her liking. Our group gave her the evil eye and made comments about the rude nature of people. We said it loud enough for them to overhear. My father-in-law ended up giving the waiter a $20 bill to server and said to him "a-holes".

 

 

 

Another reason I think cruise staff would not get involved. They are trained (purely my guess) to keep the peace - to grin and bear it. I'm sure each and everyone has dealt with rude, demanding, overbearing passengers with a great sense of superiority and entitlement. I think they are trained to smooth over tenuous situations not deal with them head on.

[Chitown12562]

We've been very fortunate to not have an incident like that during any cruise or vacation. Matter of fact we have revived nothing but great service except for once and it was just a server who constantly got the tea order wrong. Nothing to do with race and the staff manger bent over backwards to understand and correct the issue.

 

As for kids we've found the young people on celebrity to be some of the most well mannered we have ever met. They walk quietly though the pool area when escorted by a staff member and otherwise are rarely ever seen. I've seen more silliness with parents than children.

 

My daughter is thinking of taking a Disney cruise for her first cruise with children, but I'd be confident in recommending a celebrity cruise if she wanted to go that route.

[happy 2 b cruising]

Based partially on my recommendation, a fellow colleague took her family on cruise on the Summit right before the holidays. It was a much needed break for her, husband and two kids (6 & 8). Yesterday, I asked how the cruise went and she told me that they enjoyed Celebrity and the ship but were underwhelmed by the fellow passengers. One incident was them derogatory racial remarks about their family because they are an interracial family. It was pretty coarse so I won't repeat it. The second was a fellow passenger telling her husband while waiting to board the ship that they should have taken their kids on Disney and not Celebrity. The person, with the kids within earshot, told him that they would have a miserable time.

 

I feel bad for them. Why do people have to rain on other peoples parades.

 

Celebrity with the exception of Holidays has very few children onboard. I don't want to beat a dead horse but some people just don't want to be around children on their cruise vacations as pointed out on many prior threads. We travel during the Holidays on Celebrity with our Grandchildren who also are 6 & 8 years old and it was very apparent some people are not pleased to share their vacation with our family. Sorry your friends were made to feel uncomfortable, we will continue to cruise on Celebrity and hopefully others will become more tolerant when they see families with children boarding.

[Cruzaholic41]

If this happend in Europe there is quite a bit of scope to bring charges. We have quite a bit of legislation that could be used from public Order offences to specific racial hatred ones and a lot of the legislation has been beefed up in recent years - one such example (there are several others) if the offender demonstrates to the victim hostility based on the victim's membership (or presumed membership) of a racial or religious group - hostility can have a very low threshold and can be a simple as being "unfriendly".

 

A conviction in 2007 was upheld by our higher courts in the case of someone, during a verbal argument, calling three people "bloody foreigners" and telling them "to go back to your own country" - quite a low threshold!

 

A common argument is that this is against Free Speech. This is a non starter in Europe -under the European Convention on Human Rights Freedom of Speech is only a qualified right not an absolute rght.

 

Whoa. I'm no supporter of the people who make hateful comments, but that sounds a lot like totalitarianism. I don't support that at all. That's an overreaction in my opinion.

[Rob the Cruiser]

Responding with and big smile and saying "I am so sorry that you are having a bad day" works wonders. The rude person has no place to go with yet another ignorant comment. Persons overhearing the exchange often laugh.

[DYKWIA]

Very interesting. I can see how that would be abused - especially with the low threshold definition of hostility. Based on the OP's explanation of the situation, I can't say that it was hostile, although the OP has not shared much information on the actual comment made.

 

 

As they are criminal matters they do need to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt and in the UK Crown Prosecutors have clear guidance on when these matters should be brought.

 

The people who the OP referred to seemed to have been sufficiently concerned by the incident that they identified it to the OP after the cruise.

[NLH Arizona]

I think the racist remarks should have been reported to the relevant authorities

and what should Celebrity have done? Sending them to the brig for their remarks. There are racist, there are bullies, there are ignorant people everywhere and what are we going to do with them all, if people start reporting everyone that has said something that hurt their feelings.

 

Best to just ignore them for their stupidity and treat people the way you would like them to treat you.

 

BTW, we are so sue happy here in the US, I can see that are court system would be so jammed pack with "they hurt my feelings" lawsuits, with folks trying to make a few bucks, that the real criminals would never get their day in court.

Edited January 30, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[Jane2357]

If this happend in Europe there is quite a bit of scope to bring charges. We have quite a bit of legislation that could be used from public Order offences to specific racial hatred ones and a lot of the legislation has been beefed up in recent years - one such example (there are several others) if the offender demonstrates to the victim hostility based on the victim's membership (or presumed membership) of a racial or religious group - hostility can have a very low threshold and can be a simple as being "unfriendly".

 

A conviction in 2007 was upheld by our higher courts in the case of someone, during a verbal argument, calling three people "bloody foreigners" and telling them "to go back to your own country" - quite a low threshold!

 

A common argument is that this is against Free Speech. This is a non starter in Europe -under the European Convention on Human Rights Freedom of Speech is only a qualified right not an absolute rght.

 

Makes me glad for where I live - this seems outrageous. Unless someone is being threatened then I just don't see the point in tying up the legal system over words. I was once yelled at by some passing men (of a certain religion) when I was walking in a public shopping area in Malaysia to "go home". As I was not immodestly dressed I just felt sorry for their nasty attitudes to an obvious foreigner. I think this goes to back to the "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" rhyme.

 

I hardly think that you can make it illegal to to be unfriendly to someone based on their membership (or lack of membership) of a racial group or religion. "Unfriendly" is a pretty broad umbrella and here in the U.S. there would be no way to enforce that.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Jane2357

[DYKWIA]

In theory it can be "unfriendly" in reality it would almost certainly be higher. Crown prosecutors not only have to satisfy the evidence test but a public interest test as well. Our courts are not full of these cases.

 

These are often enforced in the UK by people subject to racial abuse whilst at work - public transport workers, hospital workers for evidence.

 

Perhaps if people thought there was a serious consequence of racially abusing someone else they might be less likely to say them.

Edited January 30, 2015 by DYKWIA

[NLH Arizona]

In theory it can be "unfriendly" in reality it would almost certainly be higher. Crown prosecutors not only have to satisfy the evidence test but a public interest test as well. Our courts are not full of these cases.

 

These are often enforced in the UK by people subject to racial abuse whilst at work - public transport workers, hospital workers for evidence.

 

Perhaps if people thought there was a serious consequence of racially abusing someone else they might be less likely to say them.

what you are talking about is totally different than someone on a cruise making a racial or stupid comment. What you are talking about, in the attached thread, is what we call, and have laws against, a hostile working environment.