"service" animals-where do we draw the line?

[kito42]

Exactly. As it is now, they pretty much HAVE to accept a person at their word. That is why I am all for there being a standardized certification of service dogs. I am also for criminally prosecuting anyone who tries to pass off their "pet" as a service dog when they are in no way disabled.

 

I once trained a small poodle mix to be a hearing ear dog. The woman in no way looked disabled just walking around in public however this dog provided a very valuable service to her and alerted her to things we take for granted.

 

This dog did NOT look like a service dog to most people and she constantly was stopped and questioned while out in public which made her life difficult to say the least. It would have been so much better for her had there been a recognized agency that provided recognizable vests instead of constantly trying to explain it to people when stopped and questioned.

 

As it stands now anyone can purchase a "service dog vest" off of ebay or amazon or any number of websites whether they are disabled or not.

[ghstudio]

What many forget is that the ADA rules apply to the establishments...not to you or I who happen to be in the establishment or on the ship. We are free to ask any questions we want without anyone having to worry about reprisals.

 

I have often asked what a "service dog" does for the individual and asked about their care and training. Always interesting because those with real service dogs are proud of their dogs and most seem to enjoy discussing them....but...those who are faking immediately tell you that you can't ask and point out the law (that doesn't apply to you and me) and it's none of my business (which may be true...but what the heck). My hope is that embarrassment sets in and they begin to feel vulnerable and uncomfortable because they know they are faking. Once they start to challenge me or threaten me with the law, I generally get louder to draw others in.

 

I love dogs and animals and admire and have volunteered to help train service dogs so I do enjoy talking with folks with real service animals.

 

Try it....it's sort of my grass roots effort to stop the fake dogs through public shame.

[kito42]

When out and about training, I was stopped constantly and although I tried to talk to people about what I was doing it sometimes I just didn't have time to stop and chat about things, sometimes after being stopped for the 4th or 5th time in a single day I was not exceptionally friendly about it.

 

Please understand that just because someone doesn't want to discuss their disability or their service dog does not mean that they are faking it. Many of those with a service dog are hassled constantly when out in public, especially if they have a disability that is not visible. Most of them are just like the rest of us and are just trying to get through a day.

 

Yes, in some situations some people are happy to stop whatever they are doing and have a chat but please be understanding when someone with a (legitimate) service dog does not want to discuss their private medical condition or their service dog with a complete stranger.

:)

[keithm]

The biggest reason that so many people abuse the service animal rules is because the people who allow them in are afraid to challenge them in any way and are forced to accept anything they are told. If someone walks into a hotel holding their cute little poodle wearing a "service dog" vest you can bet that no desk clerk will ever challenge them or ask for a letter. In most cases they have been told that it is against the ADA rules to do that. It really tends to be a slap to those who actually need the service animal.

I have no problem whatsoever challanging fakers like that. I have allergies & have no issue getting these people booted out.

[keithm]

What many forget is that the ADA rules apply to the establishments...not to you or I who happen to be in the establishment or on the ship. We are free to ask any questions we want without anyone having to worry about reprisals.

 

I have often asked what a "service dog" does for the individual and asked about their care and training. Always interesting because those with real service dogs are proud of their dogs and most seem to enjoy discussing them....but...those who are faking immediately tell you that you can't ask and point out the law (that doesn't apply to you and me) and it's none of my business (which may be true...but what the heck). My hope is that embarrassment sets in and they begin to feel vulnerable and uncomfortable because they know they are faking. Once they start to challenge me or threaten me with the law, I generally get louder to draw others in.

 

I love dogs and animals and admire and have volunteered to help train service dogs so I do enjoy talking with folks with real service animals.

 

Try it....it's sort of my grass roots effort to stop the fake dogs through public shame.

We REALLY should get together some time!!

[Caribbean Chris]

Very interested in your comments, kito42, as I travel with a service dog trained by Dogs for the Deaf in Oregon. So many of their dogs are small and appear to be lap dogs, because size doesn't matter - the dog can jump up to tap a sound alert.

 

My dog is almost never challenged - the trainer said, "It's because the dog is a Lab and that's ’acceptable’ in the eyes of the public.” (My dog was given a career change from Guide Dogs for the Blind because her high energy level suited her for duty 24/7, for example if a smoke detector goes off at 2 a.m.)

 

I enjoy chatting when I have time because I can let people know about Dogs for the Deaf, an excellent nonprofit that trains and provides dogs free of charge to thoroughly-screened applicants. I appreciate it when people ask, though, before petting the dog.

 

I am also in favor of national certification. Many major nonprofits already use the public access guidelines in place from Assistance Dogs International.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Caribbean Chris

[Algebralovr]

We aren't talking about dogs that are obviously well trained service dogs... It's usually very clear when a dog is helping a legitimate disabled person who is trying to manage a disability in mobility in a harried, crowded and dangerous environment like an airport or terminal. . We're talking about dogs that are ill behaved (untrained), sitting in people's laps or on chairs next to them...or those with "service dogs" in carriages or on those long pull out leashes.

 

Disruptive means there is a problem. Sitting on a separate chair is a problem.

Sitting on a lap, maybe not. I know someone with a very small SD that is very well trained. The dog detects changes in blood chemistry in a diabetic and seizure prone person and is trained to lick her face when she needs to do something about it. She said one time that if her sugar goes too crazy, licking her face may be the only thing that really gets her attention.

[k9x8]

We aren't talking about dogs that are obviously well trained service dogs... It's usually very clear when a dog is helping a legitimate disabled person who is trying to manage a disability in mobility in a harried, crowded and dangerous environment like an airport or terminal. . We're talking about dogs that are ill behaved (untrained), sitting in people's laps or on chairs next to them...or those with "service dogs" in carriages or on those long pull out leashes.

 

Those are retractable leads, commonly known as flexie leads. I hate them because people are so stupid with them. A dog on a flexie is not under control. Yes, they are a dead giveaway. We saw a woman leaving a restaurant with her small dog 8 to 10 feet ahead of her. I couldn't resist asking in passing, "Oh, is your service dog a mine sweeper?"

 

She looked startled and said nothing, as my husband whisked me through the door.

[angelhelly]

I am severely allergic to pets, cat especially. I accept that my rights to go on a plane are the same as someone having a service animal ( I just pray each time I go to a plane that no cats are there...). Thankfully I don't think I ever seen a cat being a service animal.....

 

However, I have a big issues with people that trump my right to breathe for a so call therapy dog or to save money to fly their dog for free.

Edited April 9, 2015 by angelhelly

[Iamcruzin]

I wonder if there is a website to register my wife as a therapy companion. Maybe I wouldn't have to pay her airfare. No getting around the cruise line. They would just charge me the single supplement.

[KonaJo]

FYI: Both the Hawaii House & Senate has passed bills making it a misdemeanor to falsify documents for Service Dogs (or Mini Horses) Emotional Support Animals(ESA) or Therapy Animals. It will come with a fine of $1k and/or 6 months in jail. It hasn't gone effect yet but will soon.

[keithm]

FYI: Both the Hawaii House & Senate has passed bills making it a misdemeanor to falsify documents for Service Dogs (or Mini Horses) Emotional Support Animals(ESA) or Therapy Animals. It will come with a fine of $1k and/or 6 months in jail. It hasn't gone effect yet but will soon.

Personally, I'm totally fine with "service" animals. It's the ESA & Therapy animals I disagree with. Saw a lady last week with a "Therapy" vest on her rather ratty looking poodle. The damn vest was handmade(rather poorly, I might add)I mean really!!

[Jane2357]

Personally, I'm totally fine with "service" animals. It's the ESA & Therapy animals I disagree with. Saw a lady last week with a "Therapy" vest on her rather ratty looking poodle. The damn vest was handmade(rather poorly, I might add)I mean really!!

 

Here is what kills me and this happens a lot because I live in Florida or as we say the "Gateway to Heaven". All the little old ladies have their little yipper dogs and they have all bought online their "Service or Therapy" vests or in the case you mention - they make one.

 

They plop their dog INTO the grocery cart or as a southerner would say - the buggy. So now their dog is sitting with it's butt in the bottom of the cart while they shop and guess who might get that cart next? You or me - and that is where our food is going to be - on top of dog butt germs. So DISGUSTING!

[keesar]

There was a lady on Silhouette pushing around a baby carriage and I thought it was her grandchild. I went over and looked and there was this little dog in there. Then she took food off the buffet and when seated, took the dog out of the carriage and fed it. The dog ate out of a dish she got from the buffet. Someone asked her about the dog and she said it was a 'service dog'.

[keithm]

There was a lady on Silhouette pushing around a baby carriage and I thought it was her grandchild. I went over and looked and there was this little dog in there. Then she took food off the buffet and when seated, took the dog out of the carriage and fed it. The dog ate out of a dish she got from the buffet. Someone asked her about the dog and she said it was a 'service dog'.

I would have demanded proof it was a "service" animal & if she refused, I would have really filed a formal complaint..to the point of getting booted off the ship. The cruiselines & companies need to grows some "jewels" & demand to see proper documentation, Period!

[ghstudio]

I certainly would have lodged a complaint.

 

To who...expecting what to happen?

 

Celebrity staff (and I include officers) will do nothing that could be interpreted as challenging a customer's assertion that their dog is a service dog. I suppose the exception would be if the dog bit someone...maybe, and that's just maybe, they would step in.

 

Short of that.....be prepared for the next cruise where you may find someone holding their little "service dog" in their arms and leting it try various dishes by licking them in the serving trays. There's no reason that won't happen..perhaps it already has.

[kekilia]

I think the "consider yourself warned" remark by the prev poster was a little tongue in cheek sarcasm toward all the fakers out there. Her DH obviously has a legitimate need and a qualified service dog. Now as for the baby carriage dog being fed from the buffet.....surely a supervisor should've been notified about THAT one! [emoji35]

 

No one hates the misused and totally faking "therapy" dogs more than my disabled husband and I. As can be seen on this thread, it has created a backlash against legitimate service dogs. A couple of facts.

 

Therapy dogs were originally designated as such to provide social assistance for wheelchair bound who needed people to stop staring at them and to start interacting. They couldn't claim service dog because the dog did not perform a specific physical task or an alert function. Unfortunately, now it is being used by you typical old lady with a fru fru dog and other flaky types to carry around their pets. This can be brought to a halt if DOCTORS stop giving in and writing "mental health" letters for them. For fakers who don't even get the letters, all supervisory staff should train employees to ask for these letters. Costco has gotten assertive about insisting that all service and therapy animals be on the floor with a harness or no admittance.

 

Also, push for laws that will curb this blatant fakery. It can be done as here in Hawaii where people fake service dogs to get their pets into condos, beaches, etc. it is so rampant that when people meet my husbands service dog, they casually say, "oh, I need to get my dog certified!" Really? You said that to a disabled person!

 

As for my apology to allergy sufferers, I meant to say an apology. Not to be mean, but to say I understand. I have severe tinnitus and being around a high piercing noise (wild children screeching, those horrible garden blowers) make my life miserable for quite a while. However, I must acknowledge that it is a big, crowded world out there with all of these things and if I choose to go out into it, I'm going to have to put up with it.

[k9x8]

therapy dogs are not assistance dogs, fake or genuine. Therapy dogs are tested, certified by Therapy Dogs, Inc. (and at least one other organization). TDI requires proof of immunizations, negative fecals, and parasite preventives. Membership provides insurance. Therapy dogs visit nursing homes, hospitals, hospices, and schools, all of which are allowed to insist on proof of compliance.

 

If you see "therapy" on a vest, all bets are off. That certification does not get dogs into restaurants or passage on ships and planes.

[ghstudio]

therapy dogs are not assistance dogs, fake or genuine. Therapy dogs are tested, certified by Therapy Dogs, Inc. (and at least one other organization). TDI requires proof of immunizations, negative fecals, and parasite preventives. Membership provides insurance. Therapy dogs visit nursing homes, hospitals, hospices, and schools, all of which are allowed to insist on proof of compliance.

 

If you see "therapy" on a vest, all bets are off. That certification does not get dogs into restaurants or passage on ships and planes.

 

It does on Celebrity....any vest or claim that an animal is somehow a "service animal (they don't seem to make any distinction between service, therapy, comfort, etc)" seems to get that animal on board. However, I don't blame them....there is a real risk of someone filing suit against them and it's very hard to train anyone on the differences in dogs and which is covered by ADA and which isn't.....that's Celebrity as well as your local restaurant at home.

[CaroleSS]

Celebrity warmly welcomes service dogs on all ships. Please note we do not accept pets.

 

A service dog is defined as "any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of a person with a disability." Service dogs are not considered pets.

 

Evidence that a dog is a service dog is helpful, but not required (such as identification cards, other written documentation, presence of harnesses and/or tags or the credible verbal assurance of the person with a disability using the animal).

 

Clip....

 

Service dogs are permitted to accompany the person with a disability in all public areas, including dining venues. While in public areas, service dogs must be on a leash, harness, or other restraining device. Due to health regulations, service dogs are not permitted in pools, whirlpools or spas.

 

Clip.....

.

 

If the service dog's behavior creates a fundamental alteration or a direct threat to safety, the dog may be denied boarding or removed from the ship along with the owner at the guest's expense. Examples include: growling, barking excessively, initiating unsolicited contact, biting other guests and/or crewmembers, failure to use designated relief areas, sitting on furniture, eating from the table, etc.

 

(Emphasis is mine). If Fifi eats in front of me, or off "people" tableware......I'm contacting guest services Immediately!!! We should all do the same!

 

My genuine support to anyone who has a TRUE service animal.....

Edited April 14, 2015 by CaroleSS

[ghstudio]

.

 

If the service dog's behavior creates a fundamental alteration or a direct threat to safety, the dog may be denied boarding or removed from the ship along with the owner at the guest's expense. Examples include: growling, barking excessively, initiating unsolicited contact, biting other guests and/or crewmembers, failure to use designated relief areas, ]sitting on furniture, eating from the table, etc[/color].

 

 

Oh, how I'd like to see just one report of this happening on a Celebrity ship...... Don't forget there's that (get out of jail free) statement: "may be".

[CaroleSS]

The conundrum would be if those of us who don't want to travel with Fifi threatened to sue for emotional distress after seeing Fifi eat in the MDR.

[kekilia]

therapy dogs are not assistance dogs, fake or genuine. Therapy dogs are tested, certified by Therapy Dogs, Inc. (and at least one other organization). TDI requires proof of immunizations, negative fecals, and parasite preventives. Membership provides insurance. Therapy dogs visit nursing homes, hospitals, hospices, and schools, all of which are allowed to insist on proof of compliance.

 

If you see "therapy" on a vest, all bets are off. That certification does not get dogs into restaurants or passage on ships and planes.

 

Yes, there are certified therapy dogs. However, this is a newer trend after studies showed the therapeutic value of long term patients visited by a friendly animal. Originally, these were as I stated, a sort of social service dog to a wheelchair bound (or other debilitated disability) person. This is what has led to the current situation. Hospitals and other institutions are quite capable of keeping out interlopers. It is the public realm that has a problem due to lack of information and the willingness to put up with fakers. Make sensible laws and train people to enforce r e them without prejudice.

[k9x8]

It does on Celebrity....any vest or claim that an animal is somehow a "service animal (they don't seem to make any distinction between service, therapy, comfort, etc)" seems to get that animal on board. However, I don't blame them....there is a real risk of someone filing suit against them and it's very hard to train anyone on the differences in dogs and which is covered by ADA and which isn't.....that's Celebrity as well as your local restaurant at home.

 

If that's true, I'm even more disgusted.

The catch is, therapy dogs do nothing for the owner; the owner is doing the service.

 

Maybe it's time to take that risk. We as consumers and (I hope) persons with a bit of integrity must be the advance guard.

[Gracie115]

If that's true, I'm even more disgusted.

The catch is, therapy dogs do nothing for the owner; the owner is doing the service.

 

Maybe it's time to take that risk. We as consumers and (I hope) persons with a bit of integrity must be the advance guard.

 

It's absolutely true......I manage a hotel....and people are continually checking in with "Fifi" or "Fluffy" or whoever, little misbehaving pooches that have never seen an iota of therapy training....just someone's pet...but they buy the "certificate" on line and howl loudly(the owner) if you dare question its authenticity.....thank heavens the Florida legislature is starting to address these frauds....