"service" animals-where do we draw the line?

[rahrah50]

I did ask my emotional support dog if she wanted to go on my Baltic cruise in May, but she declined saying the flight was too long and there would be too many people on board. She requested to go to the boarding kennel.....:):):):)

[hockeygal54]

I love my pet(s) dearly and miss them when I'm away but unless I had a true bonafide NEED for a real service animal while on a cruise, there is no way I'd try to bring a pet just for some supposed "emotional" need. I need a break from animal needs and they ️prob enjoy a break from me too!! Altho this cat is snuggled up awfully close right now!!

[TeaBag]

Frankly I think it's the companies that provide the fake certificates and coats that should be investigated and stopped.

[ozarkmama]

I work in a physical therapy office that is beside a Dr office and patients get us confused all the time. A female patient looking for the Dr came in my door the other day with two little dachshunds on leashes. Before I could even open my mouth, she waves a piece of paper in my face saying "I have a letter"!! OMG I just pointed her to the Dr's office as I was speechless at this point.

[Gracie115]

Frankly I think it's the companies that provide the fake certificates and coats that should be investigated and stopped.

 

Absolutely.....

[bman3122]

For all those folks posting information on animals that are/are not covered, please take some time and do a search under the U. S. Department of Justice (DOJ) website > link to ADA. The ADA is a civil rights law and the USDOJ is the federal agency that overseas all its provisions. When the ADA was passed, the DOJ allowed certain federal agencies i.e. U. S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) to have similar, but different policies covering different transportation modes. For instance, under the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), an airline can require the customer to have a certificate indicating the need for a service animal, but under the Federal Transit Administration (FTA), customers can not be required to provide a certificate when boarding public bus or rail transit. The ADA is a very broad law with many provisions, some still vague in definition even after 25 years.

 

As for service animals. the ADA has determined that in order to be a 'service animal', it must have been individually trained to perform a service to the person with the disability. An emotional support animal merely needs to provide a support mechanism to the person, such as the person remaining calm by merely petting or holding the animal.

 

The DOJ in 2011 made some changes which did affect some of the provisions for public accommodations, businesses, hotels, restaurants, etc. The change did remove most or all emotional support animals (snakes, monkeys, ferrets, etc from the ability to enter business. The DOJ did not change most of the provisions for the agencies covered under some of the USDOT transportation modes.

 

A simple question to ask before commenting, is which federal agency administers the ADA for cruise ships since it needs to be defined...is it a hotel, transportation, a service, public accommodation, or a combination of two or more. Simple? no....complex? yes.

[bman3122]

A lot of education needs to be done. A service dog (and they are limited to dogs or in a few cases miniature horses) must be trained to provide a service. An emotional support animal does not have access rights to restaurants, buses, trains, cruise ships, grocery stores, etc. An emotional support animal is not covered by the ADA the way a service dog is. I wish stories like this would also include the law to teach people.

 

The woman in the story needs to leave her animal at home.

Please separate the ADA provisions under the USDOT from other federal agencies, since the USDOJ allows the USDOT to require access on public buses and trains for persons using emotional support animals. There has been no changes to the ADA/USDOT/FTA law that changed others ADA provisions in 2011. FTA stands for the Federal Transit Administration. In addition, under the definition of a 'service animal' under ADA.../FTA, is NOT limited to just service dogs and miniature ponys, but to any animal that has been individually trained to perform a function to assist the person with their disability.

[keithm]

If that's true, I'm even more disgusted.

The catch is, therapy dogs do nothing for the owner; the owner is doing the service.

 

Maybe it's time to take that risk. We as consumers and (I hope) persons with a bit of integrity must be the advance guard.

I certainly do! I've confronted obvious fakers in reaturants before & gotten them kicked out. NO proper Service/Therapy dog would be allowed to "eat" from the table! These animals are properly trained. It's pretty easy to spot the fakers out there. As some have said "we" need to take a stand & call out these phonies for what they are!

[keithm]

Frankly I think it's the companies that provide the fake certificates and coats that should be investigated and stopped.

We ALL know how far that would go!

[NLH Arizona]

Personally, I'm totally fine with "service" animals. It's the ESA & Therapy animals I disagree with. Saw a lady last week with a "Therapy" vest on her rather ratty looking poodle. The damn vest was handmade(rather poorly, I might add)I mean really!!

Just shows you how confused these posers/fakes are. A therapy dog is a dog that goes to hospitals, care centers, etc. and enhances the life of the patients and residents. At least if they are going to try and pull a fast one, they should do a little research. A true therapy dog would be well mannered and well groomed.

[NLH Arizona]

I certainly would have lodged a complaint.

Not only would I have lodged a complain with the Hotel Director, I would have taken a picture of the woman feeding her dog at the buffet and sent it along with a report to the Health Department at the next US port of call. A true service dog is never fed at a table and will sit or lay next to their owner and not even sniff a food.

[k9x8]

Just shows you how confused these posers/fakes are. A therapy dog is a dog that goes to hospitals, care centers, etc. and enhances the life of the patients and residents. At least if they are going to try and pull a fast one, they should do a little research. A true therapy dog would be well mannered and well groomed.

 

Yes!

A true therapy dog is also limited to a 4- foot lead when visiting. It is not allowed to nose, sniff, nudge, bark, or otherwise noticeably react to ... anything.

[DYKWIA]

Pictures paint 1000s of words, I'm sure the circulation of pictures here and on Social Media of pets eating at tables, if that is happening, will bring action on the matter.

 

I'm not sure on what authority people act when they say will go up to someone and demand proof from them of this, that and the other.

[NLH Arizona]

Yes!

A true therapy dog is also limited to a 4- foot lead when visiting. It is not allowed to nose, sniff, nudge, bark, or otherwise noticeably react to ... anything.

Actually, I've seen therapy dogs without a leash, I volunteer at a care center, and they do react to the residents. You are speaking of a service dog, who doesn't react to anything but their owner nor do they sniff the air when food passes, they don't bark unless they are alerting their owner, etc.

[TeaBag]

We ain't seen nothin' yet. Just wait till they take the dogs to the pool deck and use them as chair doggers!:D:D

[AlbertaCruisers]

We ain't seen nothin' yet. Just wait till they take the dogs to the pool deck and use them as chair doggers!:D:D

 

Funny you should mention that. We were just on the Eclipse and there was a big dog, German Shepard? One day he was at the pool sitting on his own chair and even jumped into the pool (it wasn't a sea day so the chair wasn't a big issue, but it was generally an odd situation). It was all very odd, we saw him a number of times, he never wore one of the service animal jackets, he was always on a longer leash pulling his owner around. When we saw him in St. Marten he was trying to pull his owner to the ocean and the owner jerked him back really hard (it was sad to watch). The day at the pool he looked really really hot. His owner was splashing him from the pool and he finally jumped in. The dog also started chasing a kids ball and barked a few times, etc. It really did not seem like normal service dog behavior to me (or at least maybe the least trained service dog I have ever seen).

[keesar]

There was a true service dog on the cruise with a legitimate handicapped individual. The dog was a black lab and acted like a true service dog. Then we had this small thing in a carriage with an older female adult. Service dog? What type of service other than dining with her? Oh, a meal companion to make sure the food was edible...:rolleyes:

[keithm]

We ain't seen nothin' yet. Just wait till they take the dogs to the pool deck and use them as chair doggers!:D:D

Ah! Yes! Killed 2 birds with one stone, didn't we!

[keithm]

Just shows you how confused these posers/fakes are. A therapy dog is a dog that goes to hospitals, care centers, etc. and enhances the life of the patients and residents. At least if they are going to try and pull a fast one, they should do a little research. A true therapy dog would be well mannered and well groomed.

A true therapy dog,I'm sure! Probably kept her from going on one of those mass murder sprees that seem to be on the news too frequently.

[Loujul]

I think that the "service animal" concept will be abused and abused until there is no choice but to stop it entirely. so sad for the legitimate needs of the truly handicapped.

Right now, as I understand it, there is no "line" if you claim its a service animal no one can challenge you. So feel free to bring your pet dog, cat, monkey, ferret, or yes, even Kangaroo.

 

I wish common sense could prevail here.

 

If you are blind with a seeing eye dog, please board and enjoy your cruise.

If you have an "emotional needs" puppy that you push around in a stroller, better find a kennel.

 

Love your advice! I have two dogs and three turtles. I make sure they're taken care of before I leave on a cruise for humans. Love my pets, but not on vacation!!

[ghstudio]

Right now, as I understand it, there is no "line" if you claim its a service animal no one can challenge you.

 

This is far from true....the establishment may be limited to the two questions...but you and I can ask anything we want and challenge anyone we want....we aren't covered by the law. In the case of obvious fakes, public humiliation is sometimes very effective and the person with the fake goes away. If they start to tell you that "you can't ask me that", ask them why they think that....and suggest that they read the law they are referring to.

[keithm]

This is far from true....the establishment may be limited to the two questions...but you and I can ask anything we want and challenge anyone we want....we aren't covered by the law. In the case of obvious fakes, public humiliation is sometimes very effective and the person with the fake goes away. If they start to tell you that "you can't ask me that", ask them why they think that....and suggest that they read the law they are referring to.

Again, I salute you! Well said!

[quiltingdiva]

I was at the grocery store today and I heard this little "meow, meow" sound. I thought it might be a baby who had an unusual cry and heard it again. And a third time. At that point I was really curious so I looked around and there were TWO small fabric pet carriers in a grocery cart being pushed by a woman. She reached into one of the carriers and scratched Somebody's head. Then she proceeded to basically touch everything in the store. Eeeeeeeeewwwwww.

 

I used to have 2 cats and they do not belong in the grocery store! I didn't ask her and there were no markings on the carrier, but how could a cat be a therapy animal? Cats don't even like people, except when they want food or affection, or just want to annoy everybody for fun!

 

Stop the madness! :D

[Beachammo]

Just off the Equinox TA and a woman had two dogs that she walked around the ship everyday. I think any argument is thrown out the window when someone brings two animals on the ship. We asked the hotel director and he stated that there is nothing they can do about it and it will only get worse.

[alexspepa]

Funny you should mention that. We were just on the Eclipse and there was a big dog, German Shepard? One day he was at the pool sitting on his own chair and even jumped into the pool (it wasn't a sea day so the chair wasn't a big issue, but it was generally an odd situation). It was all very odd, we saw him a number of times, he never wore one of the service animal jackets, he was always on a longer leash pulling his owner around. When we saw him in St. Marten he was trying to pull his owner to the ocean and the owner jerked him back really hard (it was sad to watch). The day at the pool he looked really really hot. His owner was splashing him from the pool and he finally jumped in. The dog also started chasing a kids ball and barked a few times, etc. It really did not seem like normal service dog behavior to me (or at least maybe the least trained service dog I have ever seen).

This was not a true Service Animal, or a very poorly trained one that needs to go with its owner to remedial training. A real Service Animal would not get on a lounger and it's owner would not allow it to jump in a public pool. It would also not be distracted as you describe...