Senator calls for investagation into RC Anthem

[NIATPAC29]

Who on cruise critic knows the exact information that Royal used to make their decision to go?

[NIATPAC29]

Some of you people act like you've never heard of or seen a cover up

[NIATPAC29]

Hindsight is always 20/20, but there is something that could have been done differently. My intent isn't to point a finger at the Anthem's captain, but just to bring up a situation we actually experienced.

 

I may have missed it, but I don't recall anyone mentioning this possibility in any of the threads about this incident: The ship could have stayed in Cape Liberty for 8 -12 hours past scheduled departure time, which would have given the storm time to move further east, and further from the Anthem's planned route.

 

We were passengers on a Norwegian Breakaway cruise in October that was supposed to sail from NY for Bermuda at 4 pm on a Sunday afternoon. There was a hurricane or tropical storm affecting our route. When we checked in for the cruise we were handed a letter from the captain stating that the ship would remain at the pier in NY until about 2 am Monday morning...10 hours past scheduled sail away, in order to allow the storm to move further out to sea.

 

After departing NY, the ship sailed closer to the coast than normal in attempt to stay as far away from the storm as possible. Although we still had a rough day at sea on Monday, conditions were not nearly as bad as they would have been had the ship departed NY on time.

 

Exactly. I mentioned staying in port on Sunday. Common sense to me.

[sail7seas]

Why doesn't the Senate spend their energy doing what we elected them to do? We don't need them looking into NFL, Baseball, or cruise ship events.

 

How about some foreign affairs, budget, judicial appointments and so many areas needing some action?

[Aquahound]

Some of you people act like you've never heard of or seen a cover up

 

...or they're just not conspiracy theorists.

[navybankerteacher]

Some of you people act like you've never heard of or seen a cover up

 

Then, too, some of us happen to think that Monday morning meteorologists and armchair seamen should consider waiting for those actually involved to have their say - before calling for a Congressional investigation.

[njhorseman]

Then, too, some of us happen to think that Monday morning meteorologists and armchair seamen should consider waiting for those actually involved to have their say - before calling for a Congressional investigation.

 

Sorry, but the professional meteorologists had the correct forecast and a number of them have stated the captain's statement about the storm forecast is horse manure.

[Aquahound]

Then, too, some of us happen to think that Monday morning meteorologists and armchair seamen should consider waiting for those actually involved to have their say - before calling for a Congressional investigation.

 

Exactly. I've yet to read a factual report on what the forecasted winds/seas were going to be. Everyone knew about the low pressure system and according to reports from passengers on board, the Captain reported at muster they had rough sailing ahead. But I've yet to see, for fact, the forecasted winds were going to be 100+ knots.

 

I think some folks are confusing the fact a low pressure system existed, with what the forecasted winds/seas were.

[nybumpkin]

I thought ships were safer at sea than tied up during a storm?

I've always heard this - but 5+ years ago we did a 4-day cruise from NYC to Saint John NB just as Hurricane Earl was forecast to go right along the same course at the same time. We figured we'd end up with the cruise to nowhere. We ended up sailing faster than usual, arrived in port early, and had two tugs positioned on our port side to keep the ship in place if needed during the storm. It was a pretty miserable day in port and most people stayed on the ship. However, the ship was fine at the dock. We stayed in port later than usual to avoid the back end of the storm and the return trip was fine.

 

Last year oldest son was based in Yokosuka Japan on a US Navy destroyer. They had a typhoon come up that sent most of the US fleet out to sea - while the Japanese fleet (which shares the same base) came into port. Go figure.;)

[navybankerteacher]

Sorry, but the professional meteorologists had the correct forecast and a number of them have stated the captain's statement about the storm forecast is horse manure.

 

Sorry back to you: I do not believe that it has been established definitively just what forecast the captain had been relying upon. In any event, in most cases when any major storm is predicted, different models are presented (often competing) concerning the projected storm track(s). While "a NUMBER OF THEM" may, indeed, have termed that captain's statement "horse manure" - are the members of that number necessarily the most reliable ?

[sail7seas]

I've always heard this - but 5+ years ago we did a 4-day cruise from NYC to Saint John NB just as Hurricane Earl was forecast to go right along the same course at the same time. We figured we'd end up with the cruise to nowhere. We ended up sailing faster than usual, arrived in port early, and had two tugs positioned on our port side to keep the ship in place if needed during the storm. It was a pretty miserable day in port and most people stayed on the ship. However, the ship was fine at the dock. We stayed in port later than usual to avoid the back end of the storm and the return trip was fine.

 

Last year oldest son was based in Yokosuka Japan on a US Navy destroyer. They had a typhoon come up that sent most of the US fleet out to sea - while the Japanese fleet (which shares the same base) came into port. Go figure.;)

 

We had a similar situation on Maasdam but I don't remember just which year or which hurricane.

 

We left Montreal, called at Quebec City and weather was beautiful, proceeded to Charlottetown and had a great day. When we returned to the ship that day, Captain informed us there was a 'huge' hurricane headed up the coast to Boston. We would be skipping our three remaining ports and hurry up back to Boston where the ship would tie up and sit out the storm. It surprised all of us to think we'd be in port, tied up to the old docks in Boston but what do we know? :D

 

We were initially supposed to end our cruise on Saturday but arrived back in Boston on Thursday afternoon. The cruise, in effect, ended on Tuesday afternoon when Captain announced we were missing the rest of our ports.

 

Without all the rest of the details, I'll just add the storm veered off, Boston never experienced any of the hurricane but better all were safe than to be at risk.

 

I never could get confirmed the ship would actually be safer tied up than at sea. :D I asked several Captains but still don't know the answer. :)

 

Edited February 10, 2016 by sail7seas

[broberts]

I do think a case can be made for some sort of independent examination of the event. Not so much to find fault, but to determine if there was some failure in communications or analysis by agencies charged with weather prediction and maritime safety.

[chengkp75]

I do think a case can be made for some sort of independent examination of the event. Not so much to find fault, but to determine if there was some failure in communications or analysis by agencies charged with weather prediction and maritime safety.

 

That will be for the Bahamas to decide. Their ship, their rules. That's why flags of convenience exist. As I tell everyone who questions why the US government can't get involved in something, or why US laws don't apply, if you want 100% protection by US law, you'll have to cruise on a US flag ship. US cruisers don't think a thing about stepping on a foreign flag ship until they are told that US law does not follow them around the world.

[iheartbda]

No he is not up for re-election. Nelson is a fairly consistent critic of the way cruise line operate out of his home territory. He is especially critical of RCI as they contribute to his opponents.

 

Doc

Well, that puts an interesting spin on his concern.

[Thecat123]

Have a look at this

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=444_1236360150

[broberts]

That will be for the Bahamas to decide. Their ship, their rules. That's why flags of convenience exist. As I tell everyone who questions why the US government can't get involved in something, or why US laws don't apply, if you want 100% protection by US law, you'll have to cruise on a US flag ship. US cruisers don't think a thing about stepping on a foreign flag ship until they are told that US law does not follow them around the world.

 

No. I made no mention of investigating the ship.

 

I was quite specific. How well did the agencies responsible for weather prognostication and marine safety perform? Could they have done any better? Is there a need to adjust rules, regulations, or laws related to ships departing US ports?

 

Last I heard is was entirely within the purview of the US to manage its affairs.

[chengkp75]

No. I made no mention of investigating the ship.

 

I was quite specific. How well did the agencies responsible for weather prognostication and marine safety perform? Could they have done any better? Is there a need to adjust rules, regulations, or laws related to ships departing US ports?

 

Last I heard is was entirely within the purview of the US to manage its affairs.

 

I apologize. However, there is nothing in US law that can prevent a foreign flag ship from leaving a US port, other than a violation of SOLAS requirements. The authorities can close a port due to weather within the port, should the USCG Captain of the Port so decide, but his jurisdiction ends at the 12 mile limit, so to tell a ship's Captain that he cannot leave port due to a storm a couple hundred miles south, which the ship may encounter in international waters would in fact amount to unlawful detention of maritime trade, which the US has fought against since 1812.

 

If you want to investigate weather forecasters, go ahead. I wouldn't want to touch that quicksand. You're trying to regulate scientific guessing.

 

And again, as far as maritime safety goes, the only thing the US can do regarding foreign flag ships is to ensure that all SOLAS regulations are complied with. There is nothing in SOLAS regarding the Captain's judgement of weather conditions or decision to sail. It just outlines the equipment and training required.

[Bonnie J.]

Many years ago a tall ship got all of their passengers off and went out to sea to ride out Hurricane think it was Mitch. This was off Roatan or thereabouts, The whole ship and crew were lost at sea. They should have stayed in port!

A years or two ago were supposed to to Bermuda from Charleston, SC. We got a letter from the captain, Captain Costi, while waiting to park to say we were not going there because of Hurricane Irene coming up the coast. We were going to Key West & Cozumel instead.

We went along the coast between Irene and the coast. It was rough but there were no problems. (I posted this thread!)

[Cruzaholic41]

No he is not up for re-election. Nelson is a fairly consistent critic of the way cruise line operate out of his home territory. He is especially critical of RCI as they contribute to his opponents.

 

Well, that puts an interesting spin on his concern.

 

Thank you. Thank goodness someone else finally sees it. Both Carnival Corporation and Walt Disney are in

the list of his top 20 contributors, not to mention American Airlines - sponsors of the Miami Heat - owned by Micky Arison. This is political corruption. See for yourself:

 

https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=2016&cid=N00009926&type=I&newmem=N

[grand isle joe]

..........another "blowhard" crawls out from under his desk probably looking for a campaign contribution from the industry.....care about the people?:D:D:D:D......yea RIGHT..........

[TC1957]

Just curious and some here may save me some research...Do any other cruise lines sail out of this port, on that day, heading south?

 

I find it interesting that it appears AOTS was the only ship caught in the storm. Unless they are the only line sailing south it would seem the other lines had different information and/or made different decisions. Why? Did they get lucky? Do they use a different system for gathering information, examining outside forecast and making their own forecast?

[njhorseman]

Just curious and some here may save me some research...Do any other cruise lines sail out of this port, on that day, heading south?

 

I find it interesting that it appears AOTS was the only ship caught in the storm. Unless they are the only line sailing south it would seem the other lines had different information and/or made different decisions. Why? Did they get lucky? Do they use a different system for gathering information, examining outside forecast and making their own forecast?

 

It was the only ship sailing from the Port of NY or Cape Liberty that day.

[njhorseman]

Sorry back to you: I do not believe that it has been established definitively just what forecast the captain had been relying upon. In any event, in most cases when any major storm is predicted, different models are presented (often competing) concerning the projected storm track(s). While "a NUMBER OF THEM" may, indeed, have termed that captain's statement "horse manure" - are the members of that number necessarily the most reliable ?

 

Obviously weather forecasting is not an exact science, but I would believe a professional meteorologist's forecast and opinion over that of the ship captain.

 

I agree that we don't know what forecast the captain was relying upon, but perhaps that's the problem. Perhaps Royal Caribbean relies too much on the captain's judgement or if they employ a meteorological consultant perhaps that service blew the forecast.

[TruckerDave]

I've always heard this - but 5+ years ago we did a 4-day cruise from NYC to Saint John NB just as Hurricane Earl was forecast to go right along the same course at the same time. We figured we'd end up with the cruise to nowhere. We ended up sailing faster than usual, arrived in port early, and had two tugs positioned on our port side to keep the ship in place if needed during the storm. It was a pretty miserable day in port and most people stayed on the ship. However, the ship was fine at the dock. We stayed in port later than usual to avoid the back end of the storm and the return trip was fine.

 

Last year oldest son was based in Yokosuka Japan on a US Navy destroyer. They had a typhoon come up that sent most of the US fleet out to sea - while the Japanese fleet (which shares the same base) came into port. Go figure.;)

 

There are not 80 year olds and little kids running around on a navy destroyer. There won't be any lawsuits filed against the navy if seaman Smith or Lt Jones gets knocked down and breaks his/her arm. (And yes, I rode out a few big storms on a big grey ship that started with U.S.S...)

[TruckerDave]

Politics on a message board....NEVER goes well. :eek: