Gangway on Pride collapses

[Cruzin-K]

Yep - and you certainly lose the "wow" factor of entering the lobby if the plan is to enter and exit elsewhere. :o

Call me crazy but I think it's cool when we're in a port and entering and exiting from deck 2. One time I was with a crew member trying to get off the ship and we took a shortcut down "I-95" through the crew area to get to the other gangway because there was a bottleneck at the main one. I find it fascinating to see the behind the scenes stuff. I wouldn't mind at all not entering right into the Centrum.

 

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[ryanpatricksmom]

Call me crazy but I think it's cool when we're in a port and entering and exiting from deck 2. One time I was with a crew member trying to get off the ship and we took a shortcut down "I-95" through the crew area to get to the other gangway because there was a bottleneck at the main one. I find it fascinating to see the behind the scenes stuff. I wouldn't mind at all not entering right into the Centrum.

 

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I couldn't care less about that either, but I'll tell you what will be a big, hairy deal. Baltimore has an unbelievable number of pax who use self-debarkation. Unless they "outlaw" that option until they have a replacement gangway, it's going to be insane!

[jimbo5544]

Source of what? :confused:

 

Your quote from above regarding what you heard.

 

I've heard reports of the ship docking too fast and/or at the "wrong angle."

Edited May 10, 2016 by jimbo5544

[chengkp75]

So the Captain of the ship had some issues while parking and then we have all the speculation of who was at fault. The Captain is at fault. Now the only question is why Carnival has so much problems and issues parking their ships.

 

My maritime law side says the Captain is certainly RESPONSIBLE, but he may very well not be "at fault". Any time you talk about "fault" and "responsibility", you have to understand and correctly apply the legal definitions of these terms.

[chengkp75]

Since you work at the port, I'm hoping you can give me a little perspective here. This is just my investigative mind trying to make sense of this story. I've heard reports of the ship docking too fast and/or at the "wrong angle." Neither way explains to me how the ship hit that large gangway, which is on land and should have been in a position back from the water's edge. Exactly what part of the ship struck the gangway and how? :confused:

 

I'm with you, Paul. Even coming in at 45*, with the bow platform deployed, if the ramp was in it's normal "stowed" position, I would be hard pressed to see how the ship could hit it. Industry best practices would dictate that the port evaluate when it installed the ramp (and update this as the ships calling change), the "worst case" of a ship protruding over the dock to determine the "parking" position of the ramp. As I said earlier, while the ship is responsible, there may well be "fault" enough to spread around.

[KatieCharlotte]

Call me crazy but I think it's cool when we're in a port and entering and exiting from deck 2. One time I was with a crew member trying to get off the ship and we took a shortcut down "I-95" through the crew area to get to the other gangway because there was a bottleneck at the main one. I find it fascinating to see the behind the scenes stuff. I wouldn't mind at all not entering right into the Centrum.

 

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The Wow! factor is a much bigger deal for newbie cruisers and the impression the cruise lines want to make on them.

[jimbo5544]

I'm with you, Paul. Even coming in at 45*, with the bow platform deployed, if the ramp was in it's normal "stowed" position, I would be hard pressed to see how the ship could hit it. Industry best practices would dictate that the port evaluate when it installed the ramp (and update this as the ships calling change), the "worst case" of a ship protruding over the dock to determine the "parking" position of the ramp. As I said earlier, while the ship is responsible, there may well be "fault" enough to spread around.

 

Trying to remember how the Pride dock there, which is why I asked the question. It is one of the few home ports where (unless you are a real early bird) you can watch the docking on the last morning. I kind of (read that as not positive at all) remember they had to come in on a 45 angle to clear a pier and then pull and tuck the back end in.... but it was a while ago.

[chengkp75]

Your quote from above regarding what you heard.

 

I've heard reports of the ship docking too fast and/or at the "wrong angle."

 

I believe he's referencing the various posts on various threads here on CC. As Paul is a USCG investigator, he would be the last one to even reference an ongoing investigation.

[Cruzin-K]

The Wow! factor is a much bigger deal for newbie cruisers and the impression the cruise lines want to make on them.

I definitely agree with that, and certainly for initial boarding and the final disembarkation it is more efficient.

 

Im just a cruise geek who likes to see the behind the scenes stuff. I did the Ultimate Ships Tour on the Caribbean Princess and my favorite part was the section at the front of the ship where all the lines are kept. It was interesting that the crew member operating the machinery has to stand behind a big plexiglass(?) shield in case a line snaps. With the amount of pressure on those things, being hit by one could kill you.

 

It's very fortunate that nobody was hurt in this incident.

 

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[jimbo5544]

I believe he's referencing the various posts on various threads here on CC. As Paul is a USCG investigator, he would be the last one to even reference an ongoing investigation.

 

Thanks, I had not seen that

Edited May 10, 2016 by jimbo5544

[almitra]

I saw the news report & pics of the damage on the nat'l tv news last night...so glad nobody was hurt.

[coneyraven]

The Wow! factor is a much bigger deal for newbie cruisers and the impression the cruise lines want to make on them.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. I'm taking my wife on her first cruise later this year and I want her to have that "WOW" moment as she enters after walking across the gangway. I'm hoping it'll be repaired by September.

 

 

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[Aquahound]

I'm with you, Paul. Even coming in at 45*, with the bow platform deployed, if the ramp was in it's normal "stowed" position, I would be hard pressed to see how the ship could hit it. Industry best practices would dictate that the port evaluate when it installed the ramp (and update this as the ships calling change), the "worst case" of a ship protruding over the dock to determine the "parking" position of the ramp. As I said earlier, while the ship is responsible, there may well be "fault" enough to spread around.

 

Thanks for understanding my post Chief. :) I don't know Baltimore and I totally agree with the Captain being responsible for his ship. You and I both know he's equally responsible for safe docking and if there was something about the mooring that made it unsafe, it was his job to abort the mooring.

 

But I still just can't imagine how the ship struck the gangway unless the gangway was prematurely positioned. It's a mobile gangway, not fixed. It should have been retracted until the ship was moored, just like when an airplane parks.

[crusinpsychRN]

If true, and I'm sure it is, it states what I said above. This was not the ship's fault. Otherwise, how the heck could the ship hit the gangway? Did it jump the curb? I don't think so! :cool:

 

My daughter was driving.

[DCCruiser57]

Here's a link to the news article.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2016/05/09/carnival-cruise-ship-crashes-into-dock-causes-gangway-to-hit-parked-cars.html

[capswin]

Since you work at the port, I'm hoping you can give me a little perspective here. This is just my investigative mind trying to make sense of this story. I've heard reports of the ship docking too fast and/or at the "wrong angle." Neither way explains to me how the ship hit that large gangway, which is on land and should have been in a position back from the water's edge. Exactly what part of the ship struck the gangway and how? :confused:

 

The bow of the ship extends at least 20 feet longer than where the bow meets the water. The PBB is stored about 10 ft from the bulkhead. The bow of the Pride extended inland over the die of the pier and struck the PBB. The ship is supposed to be parallel with the pier when it passes the PBB.

[Aquahound]

The bow of the ship extends at least 20 feet longer than where the bow meets the water. The PBB is stored about 10 ft from the bulkhead. The bow of the Pride extended inland over the die of the pier and struck the PBB. The ship is supposed to be parallel with the pier when it passes the PBB.

 

So, it was the bow....which means the ship was bow-to the pier at one point? :eek: Did the bulbous bow strike the pier below the waterline? If that's the case, that's totally on the Captain.

[capswin]

I'm with you, Paul. Even coming in at 45*, with the bow platform deployed, if the ramp was in it's normal "stowed" position, I would be hard pressed to see how the ship could hit it. Industry best practices would dictate that the port evaluate when it installed the ramp (and update this as the ships calling change), the "worst case" of a ship protruding over the dock to determine the "parking" position of the ramp. As I said earlier, while the ship is responsible, there may well be "fault" enough to spread around.

 

What about gantry cranes that sit on tracks 3 ft from the edge of the pier?

What about a tree growing next to the curb? If your car hits it , is it the tree's fault?

The ship is supposed to dock almost parallel with the pier and not extend over.

Maybe part of the problem is that cruise ships rarely use tugs while docking or leaving.

 

Don't get me wrong here. I am a captain and I understand that sometimes accidents happen. It only takes a sudden gust of wind to blow you off course and boats ( and ships) don't have brakes to stop you.

[capswin]

So, it was the bow....which means the ship was bow-to the pier at one point? :eek: Did the bulbous bow strike the pier below the waterline? If that's the case, that's totally on the Captain.

 

Don't know if the bulbous bow struck the pier but they did have divers in checking for damage.

A good captain takes responsibility for mis haps but like I said above , sometimes things happen and once it starts there's not much that you can do about it.

[chengkp75]

What about gantry cranes that sit on tracks 3 ft from the edge of the pier?

What about a tree growing next to the curb? If your car hits it , is it the tree's fault?

The ship is supposed to dock almost parallel with the pier and not extend over.

Maybe part of the problem is that cruise ships rarely use tugs while docking or leaving.

 

Don't get me wrong here. I am a captain and I understand that sometimes accidents happen. It only takes a sudden gust of wind to blow you off course and boats ( and ships) don't have brakes to stop you.

 

If the gantry cranes could be moved out of the way, they would. I've seen them moved to cluster near the middle of where a ship is to dock to remove them from potential problems with bow and stern. Don't be specious with the tree analogy, I've repeated that the moving object is responsible whenever a stationary object is hit.

 

The reason you use tugs is that the ship itself does not have sufficient maneuverability. How many cargo ships have either azipods or even multiple screws, let alone Becker rudders, and multiple ones of those as well? How many have 5-6 thrusters? Now, the Pride has two azipods aft, so she has over 46,000 hp of sideways thrust aft, which is more than many ships' main propulsion horsepower, and way more than any 3 harbor tugs could provide. Depending on the attachment points, and other ships in the area, tugs can be limited in what they can accomplish, particularly when they need to pull.

[WLHyatt]

Is it feasible that the PBB was in motion prior to the actual strike?

 

For example:

Captain/Officer steering sees the PBB in one position and thinks "ok, it's retracted, we're clear". At the same time the person responsible for aligning the PBB for the port thinks "ok, the bow of the ship is clear, let's hurry this up so I can get a cup of coffee". Both are moving, thinking they are in the clear when one extends too far putting it in the path of the mooring deck door?

 

It is easy to have one absolute or another, but more often than not issues like this are because more than one person made a decision based on old information. (I don't work in maritime stuff, but I do work in IT and Telecom and root cause for outages is often the result of two parties doing work in the same area without knowing, causing an outage that isolates various systems)

[Mrs CruisinCritter]

II haven't chimed in because I figured someone would have posted pics and personal accounts by now, but I was on the ship and standing on our balcony when the Pride docked. We did go in at an angle which seemed strange, but it didn't seem like it was an extreme angle.

 

The direction that we went when leaving the port meant that we got to drive around and could see the bow of the ship as we were leaving and I got a picture of the only damage that could be seen in the bow area. It was a bent mooring platform. I'm going to try to attach it so let me know if you can't see it so I can try to repost from my computer instead of my phone.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Mrs CruisinCritter

[Cruzaholic41]

Ryano: Your beloved Royal Caribbean has been in the national news in a negative way more than Carnival has lately.

 

Lets keep this in context here. I know what the OP said, but this isn't a CCL/RCI thing. In the past decade, Carnival's reputation for crashing into other ships and/or objects far exceeds that of any other cruise line. Just off the top of my head, these are the incidents I remember -

 

1. September 2009 - Carnival Legend crashed into the docked Enchantment of the Seas in Cozumel, causing damage to both ships.

 

2. November 2009 - Carnival Splendor crashed into the docked Radiance of the Seas in Puerto Vallarta, denting ROS's bow.

 

3. December 2009 - Carnival Splendor crashed into the pier in Puerto Vallarta causing damage to both the ship and pier.

 

4. January 2010 - Carnival Ecstasy crashed into the Galveston gangway, destroying the gangway and causing minor damage to the ship.

 

5. January 2010 - Carnival Miracle crashed the dock in St. Kitts causing a 15 ft gash in the side of the ship.

 

6. July 2011 - Carnival Fantasy crashed into the docked Carnival Imagination in Key West causing cosmetic damage to both ships.

 

7. May 2016 - Carnival Pride crashes into the Baltimore gangway, destroying the gangway.

 

That's 7 incidents I can think of in 7 years, including 3 cases of crashing into other ships!!!

 

There is no candy coating it. Carnival has a bad reputation for collisions. I challenge you to find a collision list half that bad for any other major cruise lines in the past 7 years.

[jimbo5544]

Lets keep this in context here. I know what the OP said, but this isn't a CCL/RCI thing. In the past decade, Carnival's reputation for crashing into other ships and/or objects far exceeds that of any other cruise line. Just off the top of my head, these are the incidents I remember -

 

1. September 2009 - Carnival Legend crashed into the docked Enchantment of the Seas in Cozumel, causing damage to both ships.

 

2. November 2009 - Carnival Splendor crashed into the docked Radiance of the Seas in Puerto Vallarta, denting ROS's bow.

 

3. December 2009 - Carnival Splendor crashed into the pier in Puerto Vallarta causing damage to both the ship and pier.

 

4. January 2010 - Carnival Ecstasy crashed into the Galveston gangway, destroying the gangway and causing minor damage to the ship.

 

5. January 2010 - Carnival Miracle crashed the dock in St. Kitts causing a 15 ft gash in the side of the ship.

 

6. July 2011 - Carnival Fantasy crashed into the docked Carnival Imagination in Key West causing cosmetic damage to both ships.

 

7. May 2016 - Carnival Pride crashes into the Baltimore gangway, destroying the gangway.

 

That's 7 incidents I can think of in 7 years, including 3 cases of crashing into other ships!!!

 

There is no candy coating it. Carnival has a bad reputation for collisions. I challenge you to find a collision list half that bad for any other major cruise lines in the past 7 years.

Thanks for keeping the list:confused: stating it's not a CCL RCCL thing and then turning it into one.

Edited May 10, 2016 by jimbo5544

[Thorncroft]

A huge team of maritime lawyers will sort this out in the next few years. Meanwhile, lawsuits will be filed by both sides as they posture to protect their ass...ets. Additionally, that gangway is toast. Even if the section that fell is replaceable, it will take months to get it fixed as it will have to be built to fit that particular gangway. They don't keep spares of that magnitude just lying around. This will really screw up that cruise port for a while.