Unrest in Europe

[sunsetbeachgal]

We just disembarked a river cruise last week and the week before the cruise we did a land tour on our own, and saw absolutely nothing anywhere or anyone that caused us to worry, period.

 

However, as we walked through crowded airports and train stations, I couldn't help but to reflect back on Brussels and now Istanbul and think of the innocent victims just going about their business and being at the wrong place at the wrong time. So sad

Edited June 29, 2016 by sunsetbeachgal

[ShannonSC2]

Can anyone just off a cruise comment on the current unrest in Europe did it affect your cruise at all .was there a time when you didn't feel safe or saw evidence of this happening or am I being over cautious.

 

I just got back from 2 1/2 weeks in Europe. We went from Budapest to Nuremberg, down to Venice, Italy to Athens, Greece. I never felt like I was in any harm whatsoever. The only place I was a little uncomfortable was Athens, Greece but that was because this teenage girl grabbed my husband's shirt, begging for money. We even rode the metro(subway) in Athens and I never felt afraid.

 

I live in the US and there are places here I feel uncomfortable going to.

 

I think you have to be aware of your surroundings and know what is going on. We tried not to look like tourist (especially American tourist). We would pull the map out in Athens in areas we felt safe.

 

Some ports we visited in Greece were very friendly. Locals greeted us and welcomed us to their town.

 

You can't let fear stop you from doing the things you like doing. That means the "bad" guys have won. :) Just keep on eye out and enjoy the surroundings. Stay in areas that look good and be aware of any issues happening around you (large group surroundings)

[ShannonSC2]

Uh, what?

 

I've lived here in Atlanta (in a very urban part of Atlanta, not the 'burbs) for about 30 years. I have never heard of such places. :cool:

 

Sure there are areas where one would not and should not wander alone at night. But as for 'police no-go zones'? I highly doubt it.

 

 

That is funny because I live in SC and I have heard of areas in Atlanta to not visit at night because cops won't go there. :) That was years ago though. Once again I think you have to be award of your surroundings.

 

I do like Atlanta though. One of my favorite places to go.

Edited June 29, 2016 by ShannonSC2

[ShannonSC2]

I look at it this way. Bad things can happen any where, any time. You could be minding your own business in a night club in a city in the USA and next thing you know you are a statistic. You could be in a mall, a movie theater, a fast food joint...all in the good ol' USA....and become a statistic. You can let fear keep you from enjoying life....or you can practice common sense, do your best not to make yourself a target and go out and enjoy life. I have lived through some pretty crappy stuff that happened in the "safety" of my own home...I refuse to let the bad people in this world prevent me from exploring this amazing creation that is our world.

 

Grab life ... don't let it escape you due to fear.

 

Awesome post! AMEN!!

[ShannonSC2]

Trying to get back on topic ("Unrest in Europe") ...

 

Celebrity website now has this banner alert:

 

Atatürk Airport in Istanbul, Turkey - Advisory

 

Celebrity Cruises is aware of the bombing at Istanbul Atatürk Airport in Istanbul, Turkey. We are monitoring the situation and considering modifications to upcoming sailings. As always, our decisions are driven by concern for the safety and wellbeing of our guests and crew members.

 

They had already pulled all port stops in Istanbul, but this implies they make the more difficult decision to reschedule cruises starting or ending in Istanbul. This news should be relevant to those few river cruises that sail down the Eastern Danube and end in Istanbul.

 

We just got off the Seabourn Odyssey cruise in Athens, Greece doing the 7 day. It was a 14 day cruise disembarking in Istanbul on Saturday. I just read that they will be going back to Athens but I haven't seen anything on their site yet.

[Piggeldy]

Can anyone just off a cruise comment on the current unrest in Europe did it affect your cruise at all .was there a time when you didn't feel safe or saw evidence of this happening or am I being over cautious.

 

Not just off a cruise but "Europe" right now (as of 15 minutes ago):

 

You decide how unsafe you'd feel in this situation.

(If I was biking in the middle of a five lane road like that guy, I might actually feel quite a bit unsafe though. Bonus point if somebody can guess where this is, double the points if anyone has ever been here.)

 

Would I feel comfortable in Istanbul right now? No, probably not. Would I want to go to a soccer match in Paris right now? No, probably not (more for the hooligans than the terrorists though). But it's not as if "Europe" is in a constant state of unrest with riots in the streets and bombs exploding on every corner. Can it happen? Of course it can. But just as well could you be killed in one of the (nearly) daily mass shootings in the US or run over by a bus on your way to work.

[Cordovabay]

Webfoot,

 

You mentioned you would be cautious where you would go in the city (Paris).

Can you provide me with some details? We will be there pre-cruise for 3 nights

Aug. 25-28 this year.

 

Thank you.

[notamermaid]

Hello piggeldy,

 

I like riddles. So... your avatar is a character from a popular TV cartoon in Germany and your base are coordinates of a German town, the crossroads looks German in its markings and signs. It would guess it is Münster!?

 

By the way, if I am right then it is unusual that there is only one cyclist on those crossroads. ;)

 

The site you have photographed looks as peaceful as the main road near me on a Sunday morning. Many, many places in Europe are unaffected by turmoil. You are more likely to be stung by a wasp and feel unwell afterwards or are hit by a car.

 

More dangerous are places that are nice targets for disrupting traffic and causing great panic. Railway stations, airports, the like. Yes, places frequented by tourists I am afraid.

 

I would not go to Istanbul, for sure. I have not really understood why river cruise companies combine an Eastern European cruise with Istanbul apart from it being a convenient airport. But that I do not need to understand.

 

Nature and people are unpredictable. A few weeks ago some people in Germany where struck by lightning out of the blue, literally out of a blue sky with no warning.

 

The peaceful places prevail and are still more numerous by far.

 

notamermaid

[laverendrye]

"I have not really understood why river cruise companies combine an Eastern European cruise with Istanbul apart from it being a convenient airport. But that I do not need to understand."

 

Actually it does make sense in a historical and cultural sense. I took a Uniworld cruise which started in Istanbul, continued by air to Belgrade, and then followed the Danube to Vienna. The cruise linked two imperial capitals whose empires, the Ottoman and Hapsburg, once controlled the entire arena and fought over much of it. It was very interesting to see how the two cultures have shaped the lower Danube region.

 

Although I have been in Istanbul several times and found it a fascinating city, I would not travel there now as the pattern of violence seems to be targeting tourist sites, rather than the government institutions that the PKK seemed to favour. (Of course I am assuming that the latest airport attacks were the work of ISIS). I've travelled elsewhere in Turkey, and there is much I would still like to see, but I'm afraid it's off my list for the time being.

 

On the other hand, I did visit Belgium and the Netherlands just a couple of weeks after the Brussels bombings. While I did not visit Brussels, I felt perfectly safe walking around Antwerp and Ghent. Brussels Airport was still closed on my arrival, but I departed from there a few weeks later, and while the departures hall was still closed I had no apprehensions about safety.

 

I'm returning to Europe this autumn (Germany and the Netherlands) and am not worried about terrorist attacks.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Actually Istanbul is mostly Asia and only a part of it is Europe ;).

 

Anyway no Danube river cruise really ends in Istanbul. This is an addition to a river cruise on the Danube river where you need to be transported to Istanbul. So this can be easily taken off the itinerary.

 

steamboats

 

I guess this is useful information for geography buffs, but -- 100% of the tourist sites are in the European part of Istanbul, as is the airport and AFAIKR all the tourist-aimed terrorist attacks have been in the European part of Istanbul. There have been recent posts from river cruisers who are booked to end their cruise in Istanbul, so that information is of more interest to them at this moment. But thanks for sharing ;)

Edited June 30, 2016 by Host Jazzbeau

[steamboats]

There have been recent posts from river cruisers who are booked to end their cruise in Istanbul, so that information is of more interest to them at this moment.

 

I know that there are river cruise lines that do end the voyage in Instanbul. But still the cruise does not end in Istanbul. Istanbul is an addition to the trip like Prague. You have to fly from the end of the Danube river cruise over to Istanbul. So the river cruise line can easily skip this part of the whole trip. Sure this still causes troubles to those who have individual flights (as it does with all those who are on a blue water vessel - like the Celebrity Equinox which was supposed to turn around in Istanbul on July 16th).

 

steamboats

[G.M.T.]

Britain doing the Brexit, England out of the European football tournament and worst of all I have to going shopping with DW.

 

Just a little note for our friends over the pond, WWII has now been over for 70 plus years.:)

 

PS. If there were unrest, there are enough natives on this board to report it just as we report high or low water levels, flooding, collisions etc.

Edited June 30, 2016 by G.M.T.

[notamermaid]

While the happenings in Istanbul are very tragic and people in Europe are shocked by it the greater concern and what dominates the news here is the Brexit. There are implications that go with that, economically and politically, in this network of interests, that very few people have foreseen in that magnitude. People are anxious about it.

 

There are small troubles in local neighbourhoods, as everywhere else, in Germany.

 

But compared to other continents Europe is still a fairly safe place to go IMO.

 

notamermaid

[pully8]

it could be argued there have been periods of unrest for centuries but of course as travellers safety is important, as it would be to locals too.

today it has been announced Austria will repeat its presidential elections because irregularities have been found.

uncertainty can create unrest. we would like to visit Europe again and are mindful random acts of violence can occur anywhere. we certainly live in interesting times to coin a phrase.

would imagine if things became too unsafe travel operators would simply withdraw but I think that is unlikely.

[dabear]

Webfoot,

 

You mentioned you would be cautious where you would go in the city (Paris).

Can you provide me with some details? We will be there pre-cruise for 3 nights

Aug. 25-28 this year.

 

Thank you.

 

We are taking a Danube cruise at the end of this month but live in a suburb of Chicago. Uunfortunately there are certain poor neighborhoods in our city you would not want to visit due to gang wars going on. On the other hand the tourist sights in our city (& most other large cities) are not in dangerous neighborhoods. In any large city it is good common sense not to walk alone at nights in parks or quiet dark streets. Be conscience of your surroundings.

[garycarla]

A few thoughts for those that try to look at the "big picture".

 

As incidents of violence increase, tourism slows.

 

As tourism slows and impacts the local economy, unrest and violence increases.

 

As the violence increases, tourism drops even more.

 

As tourism slows to a crawl and economy suffers, violence becomes the norm.

 

And the downward circle continues.

 

MEANWHILE... we will continue to travel as much as possible.

[4774Papa]

A few thoughts for those that try to look at the "big picture".

 

As incidents of violence increase, tourism slows.

 

As tourism slows and impacts the local economy, unrest and violence increases.

 

As the violence increases, tourism drops even more.

 

As tourism slows to a crawl and economy suffers, violence becomes the norm.

 

And the downward circle continues.

 

MEANWHILE... we will continue to travel as much as possible.

 

Your logic is exactly why terrorists target the tourism industry.

 

The terrorists in Egypt and that includes the Muslim Brotherhood that actually had the Presidency for a while, have been targeting tourists. The current government provides a lot of armed guards to protect tourist, but the tourism industry is suffering. Now the terrorists are trying this with Turkey.

 

i try to evaluate the risk of terrorist attacks, when I plan a trip. Yes, terror has stricken in Paris, Brussels and Orlando, however those attacks are a bit different from those in Muslim countries where the terrorist are trying to overthrow the government.

 

We will continue to travel abroad and hope that Egypt and Turkey can resolve their problems, as I would like to return to both countries.

[Got2Cruise]

Your logic is exactly why terrorists target the tourism industry.

 

The terrorists in Egypt and that includes the Muslim Brotherhood that actually had the Presidency for a while, have been targeting tourists. The current government provides a lot of armed guards to protect tourist, but the tourism industry is suffering. Now the terrorists are trying this with Turkey.

 

i try to evaluate the risk of terrorist attacks, when I plan a trip. Yes, terror has stricken in Paris, Brussels and Orlando, however those attacks are a bit different from those in Muslim countries where the terrorist are trying to overthrow the government.

 

We will continue to travel abroad and hope that Egypt and Turkey can resolve their problems, as I would like to return to both countries.

 

Exactly my thinking. I disagree with other posters giving the "stay out of bad neighborhood analogy and you'll be fine". . . The terrorists go to where they can do the most damage to tourists psyches. They are not going to blow up a slum.

[dabear]

Exactly my thinking. I disagree with other posters giving the "stay out of bad neighborhood analogy and you'll be fine". . . The terrorists go to where they can do the most damage to tourists psyches. They are not going to blow up a slum.

 

Visiting a strange city you are far more likely to incur common criminals than terrorists.

[Got2Cruise]

Visiting a strange city you are far more likely to incur common criminals than terrorists.

 

 

 

The title of the thread is unrest in Europe.

[dabear]

The title of the thread is unrest in Europe.

 

If you wish to be precise the title does not say Unrest in Europe Caused by Terrorists. Unrest can be caused by many factors, e.g. immigration, weather, politics, criminal influx, etc. Bottom line is whether there are new factors that could affect a trip to a particular local.

[garycarla]

Visiting a strange city you are far more likely to incur common criminals than terrorists.

 

I would agree with this. Sadly almost nobody thinks that way.

 

There are still individual crimes committed around the world everyday, but we (via the media) tend to focus on a handful of incidents.

 

For example, over 16,000 people were murdered in the U.S. last year. Does that make America a safe place to visit?

[Got2Cruise]

If you wish to be precise the title does not say Unrest in Europe Caused by Terrorists. Unrest can be caused by many factors, e.g. immigration, weather, politics, criminal influx, etc. Bottom line is whether there are new factors that could affect a trip to a particular local.

 

 

 

I interpreted it as events the op is learning about in the media. Those are the things that are preventing folks from booking or canceling. I'm leaving tomorrow, I know several ways to prevent pick pocketing, getting mugged, etc. I have not read anything about criminal influx anywhere in Europe. Weather? I would never consider unrest. But terrorism, at least once a week now with no end in sight, is on my mind. The acts are totally random, there is no way to predict or prevent. It's not preventing me from traveling but it is one more thing to consider. Jmo

[cruisemom42]

I interpreted it as events the op is learning about in the media. Those are the things that are preventing folks from booking or canceling. I'm leaving tomorrow, I know several ways to prevent pick pocketing, getting mugged, etc. I have not read anything about criminal influx anywhere in Europe. Weather? I would never consider unrest. But terrorism, at least once a week now with no end in sight, is on my mind. The acts are totally random, there is no way to predict or prevent. It's not preventing me from traveling but it is one more thing to consider. Jmo

 

I read an interesting analysis of this 'perception' that there is more terrorism now. We tend to forget that there were lots of acts of terrorism going on as far back as in the 1970s and 1980s. But Americans sort of became hypervigilant about terrorism after 9/11. I also think many people of the generations posting here were not traveling as much in those days....

 

I remember frequent bombings in Italy in the 1970s and 1980s, seeing guards in the Rome airport with machine guns. Lockerbie. The IRA bombings in London. Plane hijackings. The PLO attack at the 1972 Munich Olympics. And many more.

 

Terrorism is indeed random, which seems to be one reason people find it so scary. But I am comforted by the very small odds of being personally affected, even if I continue to travel.

 

After all, just think of how many people in the Istanbul airport last week who were NOT killed or injured in the terrorists' attack? I actually transited through IST airport just about a week before the attack happened (and I am pretty sure there was a bomb threat against my flight). Do I feel like I dodged a bullet? Not really. No more so than when a fatal accident occurs along the highway I drive to work every day....

[4774Papa]

I read an interesting analysis of this 'perception' that there is more terrorism now. We tend to forget that there were lots of acts of terrorism going on as far back as in the 1970s and 1980s. But Americans sort of became hypervigilant about terrorism after 9/11. I also think many people of the generations posting here were not traveling as much in those days....

 

I remember frequent bombings in Italy in the 1970s and 1980s, seeing guards in the Rome airport with machine guns. Lockerbie. The IRA bombings in London. Plane hijackings. The PLO attack at the 1972 Munich Olympics. And many more.

 

Terrorism is indeed random, which seems to be one reason people find it so scary. But I am comforted by the very small odds of being personally affected, even if I continue to travel.

 

After all, just think of how many people in the Istanbul airport last week who were NOT killed or injured in the terrorists' attack? I actually transited through IST airport just about a week before the attack happened (and I am pretty sure there was a bomb threat against my flight). Do I feel like I dodged a bullet? Not really. No more so than when a fatal accident occurs along the highway I drive to work every day....

 

Yes, terrorism comes and goes. In the late 19th and early 20th Century there was a lot of terror from anarchists. Of course, like you say we had quite a bit of terror the second half of the 20th Century from the PLO and groups sponsored by the Soviet Union.