Princess Cruises exploiting and ripping off Pacific Islanders

[MicCanberra]

Have to agree with MicCanberra & Fletch1 swim out past all the damaged coral there is plenty to see.

 

And please don't damage any more of the coral.

[lagoon380]

Unfortunately that's the result when you get a large number of people in one area repeatedly.

[MicCanberra]

Unfortunately that's the result when you get a large number of people in one area repeatedly.

 

Yes, and along with the storms/cyclones, it is hard for the reefs to recover.

[OzKiwiJJ]

Unfortunately that's the result when you get a large number of people in one area repeatedly.

 

Especially people who don't really know what they are doing. Surprisingly (or not, maybe) many people think coral is like rock, so they think it's OK to stand on it. Also it's too easy for people to snorkel - buy a cheap snorkel set and hit the water, doesn't matter if you can't swim properly, you can just walk and put your head underwater.

 

It's hard to control on some beaches where the reefs are just off the beach, like at the Isle of Pines. For places like Lifou one thing that could be done is for the cruise lines to sell the tickets but those that want tickets have to attend a short briefing on snorkelling etiquette before their tickets are issued to them. Can't see it happening though. :(

[MicCanberra]

If there is money involved, I can see the cruise lines doing it.

[Cruisegroover]

Especially people who don't really know what they are doing. Surprisingly (or not, maybe) many people think coral is like rock, so they think it's OK to stand on it. Also it's too easy for people to snorkel - buy a cheap snorkel set and hit the water, doesn't matter if you can't swim properly, you can just walk and put your head underwater.

 

It's hard to control on some beaches where the reefs are just off the beach, like at the Isle of Pines. For places like Lifou one thing that could be done is for the cruise lines to sell the tickets but those that want tickets have to attend a short briefing on snorkelling etiquette before their tickets are issued to them. Can't see it happening though. :(

 

The same thing is occurring over at Hideaway Island in Vila where the tourists have loved the reef there to its almost near death. I have been going there for years but on my last visit 4 weeks ago I shocked at the state of the coral. And I have been there twice after the 2015 cyclone so its not cyclone damage (though the cyclone would not have helped). The charge of about $15 doesn't seem to be going to marine conservation as it is supposed.

[rickays]

If you were to research Jinek Bay Marine Reserve you will find details on Carnival Cruises (including Princess/P&O/Carnival) paid and built the platform and steps to this reserve. They also want to limit the number of people swimming in the reserve to help protect the reef. The last time I was there, a couple of the local men were drinking beer and collecting money from any number of people who wanted to swim. They are supposed to limit the number of people. I think it is a much better idea for the cruise to sell the pass therefore limiting the numbers. All the money they collect goes to the local community. See these:

http://cruiseweekly.com.au/news/carnival-marine-reserve-pass/12027

http://www.carnival.com.au/shore-excursions/jinek-bay-marine-reserve-pass.aspx#IPTsmSA8FD4WWc3Z.97

https://www.pocruises.com.au/destinations/pacific-islands/new-caledonia/lifou/shore-tours/jinek-bay-marine-reserve-pass---am-or-pm

Enough said!

[MicCanberra]

Thanks Lynda.:D

[Brisbane41]

I have seen the turtles on the main beach side and also in Jinek Bay extremely early on my recent trip.

 

Regarding the coral damage, I have been going through all my underwater video of my recent trip and I can confirm that people in flippers and reef shows do in fact stand on the reef in all ports when they get tired of swimming. They are damaging the reef.

 

I personally do not like this. I am a strong swimmer and always go into the water with bare feet and face goggles opposed to a snorkel mask. I can free dive to safe depths and the lack of protection on my feet means that I must stay swimming otherwise it will hurt me if I touch the coral. I think that flippers and reef shoes should be banned in all these places.

 

Getting back to the main topic. I do not agree with cruise lines profiting from a local beach or attraction by selling tickets on the ship and keeping a profit for themselves. It is not ethical and does not give the cruise line a good reputation.

[Brisbane41]

If you were to research Jinek Bay Marine Reserve you will find details on Carnival Cruises (including Princess/P&O/Carnival) paid and built the platform and steps to this reserve. They also want to limit the number of people swimming in the reserve to help protect the reef. The last time I was there, a couple of the local men were drinking beer and collecting money from any number of people who wanted to swim. They are supposed to limit the number of people. I think it is a much better idea for the cruise to sell the pass therefore limiting the numbers. All the money they collect goes to the local community. See these:

http://cruiseweekly.com.au/news/carnival-marine-reserve-pass/12027

http://www.carnival.com.au/shore-excursions/jinek-bay-marine-reserve-pass.aspx#IPTsmSA8FD4WWc3Z.97

https://www.pocruises.com.au/destinations/pacific-islands/new-caledonia/lifou/shore-tours/jinek-bay-marine-reserve-pass---am-or-pm

Enough said!

 

Refer to my above post. Limited numbers do not protect the reef. Weak swimmers damage the reef. Flippers and reef shoes damage the reef. Incompetent and unaware swimmers damage the reef.

 

I grew up swimming every day of my life. I know how to swim and I never use flippers or reef shoes. If people want to swim at a reef both of these items of swim ware should be banned.

[MicCanberra]

I think an awareness of what damages the reef and how to swim around it would be a better way to go.:D

[lagoon380]

It's not the flippers or reef shoes, it's the idiots wearing them that do it.

I wear flippers, I scuba dive and free dive, so know how to use them, you can easily float over all the coral even in shallow depths if you know how, I think education is the key here, show them how it's done and hopefully they will listen and learn.

[OzKiwiJJ]

Ditto! I wear reef shoes and flippers and am very careful where I put my feet and any other part of my body.

[cheznandy]

Getting back to the main topic. I do not agree with cruise lines profiting from a local beach or attraction by selling tickets on the ship and keeping a profit for themselves. It is not ethical and does not give the cruise line a good reputation.

 

How do you know the locals are not taking money and keeping it for themselves and not sharing it with the community?

[Brisbane41]

How do you know the locals are not taking money and keeping it for themselves and not sharing it with the community?

 

It would be pretty risky doing that with the other members of the community and the rumour mill. If you were doing something that I dare say the mob will be after you very quickly.

 

I personally would rather the community got the money instead of cruise line profits. I do not begrudge the cruise lines a profit but what they are doing is exploitation. Some claim the stairs are a great addition to the bay. I say big deal. With the multi billion dollar industry the cruise lines are they had the funds to do much bigger and much better instead they choose not to. If the cruise lines teamed up to build a decent tender jetty capable of tying up at least a dozen tenders at a time in those islands then I might change my opinion. Until cruise lines start investing more in the community and passenger assets that benefit all the cruise line, industry and passengers then my opinion will remain the same until cruise lines get their act together.

[The_Big_M]

Refer to my above post. Limited numbers do not protect the reef. Weak swimmers damage the reef. Flippers and reef shoes damage the reef. Incompetent and unaware swimmers damage the reef.

 

I grew up swimming every day of my life. I know how to swim and I never use flippers or reef shoes. If people want to swim at a reef both of these items of swim ware should be banned.

 

Well, that's quite a different point from your original point, and what the topic of the thread is!

 

And the response you replied to addressed your original point, not your new amendment.

[The_Big_M]

It would be pretty risky doing that with the other members of the community and the rumour mill. If you were doing something that I dare say the mob will be after you very quickly.

 

I personally would rather the community got the money instead of cruise line profits. I do not begrudge the cruise lines a profit but what they are doing is exploitation. Some claim the stairs are a great addition to the bay. I say big deal. With the multi billion dollar industry the cruise lines are they had the funds to do much bigger and much better instead they choose not to.

 

And if they did "much bigger and better" it would make it easier to have many more people access the area (like you get at Isle of Pines) increasing visitation damage, and equally much harder to control the access.

 

Yet a moment ago you stated that only people without foot equipment should be permitted access.

 

Contradictory much?

[cheznandy]

And if they did "much bigger and better" it would make it easier to have many more people access the area (like you get at Isle of Pines) increasing visitation damage, and equally much harder to control the access.

 

Yet a moment ago you stated that only people without foot equipment should be permitted access.

 

Contradictory much?

 

Yep, I am confused!!

[Brisbane41]

And if they did "much bigger and better" it would make it easier to have many more people access the area (like you get at Isle of Pines) increasing visitation damage, and equally much harder to control the access.

 

Yet a moment ago you stated that only people without foot equipment should be permitted access.

 

Contradictory much?

 

Lets separate it. The steps at Jinek Bay are an improvement.

 

On another subject of money to the islanders the wharf for tenders on the other side of the island are insufficient for current cruise ship capacity. Its a wonder you are confused because I specifically mentioned tenders and tenders do not dock at Jinek Bay.

 

I try to be as brief as possible as elaborating leads to rather lengthy and boring posts.

[SinbadThePorter]

It's not the flippers or reef shoes, it's the idiots wearing them that do it.

I wear flippers, I scuba dive and free dive, so know how to use them, you can easily float over all the coral even in shallow depths if you know how, I think education is the key here, show them how it's done and hopefully they will listen and learn.

 

I am a very poor swimmer, but I have a phobia about touching coral which I think I got from watching the movie Thunderball as a kid.:o

[rickays]

I personally would rather the community got the money instead of cruise line profits. I do not begrudge the cruise lines a profit but what they are doing is exploitation. Some claim the stairs are a great addition to the bay. I say big deal.

 

You still are not reading the information available - the cruise lines do not keep the money - it all goes to the community.

[The_Big_M]

Lets separate it. The steps at Jinek Bay are an improvement.

 

On another subject of money to the islanders the wharf for tenders on the other side of the island are insufficient for current cruise ship capacity. Its a wonder you are confused because I specifically mentioned tenders and tenders do not dock at Jinek Bay.

 

Oh, so you're confused.

 

The money you pay on the ship for Jinek Bay is only for Jinek Bay and whatever the islanders are doing with it. It's nothing to do with the wharf or the tenders.

 

That is normally funded by port fees as part of the cruise cost. In some cases, cruise lines fund improvements additionally themselves. However, even if they did it wouldn't make sense to charge it as part of the fee for Jinek Bay as that would mean only a limited number of people would pay it, and they would then subsidise everyone else.

[Brisbane41]

Oh, so you're confused.

 

The money you pay on the ship for Jinek Bay is only for Jinek Bay and whatever the islanders are doing with it. It's nothing to do with the wharf or the tenders.

 

That is normally funded by port fees as part of the cruise cost. In some cases, cruise lines fund improvements additionally themselves. However, even if they did it wouldn't make sense to charge it as part of the fee for Jinek Bay as that would mean only a limited number of people would pay it, and they would then subsidise everyone else.

 

No I am not confused. I think you have totally lost control of your train of thought on this one.

 

I would not begrudge the cruise lines taking a profit from places like selling tickets from Jinek Bay if they were to reinvest all that money into benefiting cruise lines and tourism in the entire island. A cruise line could easily purchase that island and they have the money in profits to make it better but they choose not to improve the facilities or do little and nothing to help.

 

How difficult is this to understand for you?

[cruisin-m]

Especially people who don't really know what they are doing. Surprisingly (or not, maybe) many people think coral is like rock, so they think it's OK to stand on it. Also it's too easy for people to snorkel - buy a cheap snorkel set and hit the water, doesn't matter if you can't swim properly, you can just walk and put your head underwater.

 

It's hard to control on some beaches where the reefs are just off the beach, like at the Isle of Pines. For places like Lifou one thing that could be done is for the cruise lines to sell the tickets but those that want tickets have to attend a short briefing on snorkelling etiquette before their tickets are issued to them. Can't see it happening though. :(

 

I am so glad someone else feels the same way! For the people that tread all over the coral they don't seem to notice what an issue it is and whenever I mention it to them get a surly response about doing what they want or not being able to swim.

 

That coral took thousands of years to grow and one tourist to ruin it in seconds.

 

Seeing Isle of Pines and Duck Island now is so sad how it is all flattened and dead.

 

I kind of wish the cruise lines were more proactive in educating people not to ruin the coral for everyone else by walking on it because you are lazy!

[Aus Traveller]

Just back from a recent cruise on the Emerald Princess and had an interesting discussion with the locals at Jinek Bay in Lifou.

 

For many years Jinek Bay at Lifou Island has always been managed by the locals with a $5.00 Australian entry fee to control tourist numbers and protect the reef. You would turn up, pay in cash and be given a paper bracelet and be allowed to swim at the reef. I was first there in December 2015 on Radiance of the Seas and it was a $5.00 entry managed by the locals.

 

As of this year Princess Cruises is exploiting the locals by banning them from selling tickets to cruise ship passengers. Princess Cruises is now selling tickets on board the ship for $20.00 Australian, they are keeping $15.00 in profit and only passing on the $5.00 to locals for entry to Jinek Bay. Princess Cruises is also telling the locals not to accept cash payments for tickets.

 

The locals will let you swim at Jinek Bay for free if you arrive on an early tender and can arrive before the main group arrives. It would appear that Princess Cruises is using the tickets to Jinek Bay to double as tender tickets but only after other tours depart first so this gives individuals an advantage to arrive early and swim for free.

 

Upon speaking to the locals, I was informed that representatives from Princess have demanded that they cease selling tickets and allow Princess Cruises to handle ticket sales or they will no longer bring the ship to the island. They are not happy that Princess is ripping them off by charging more and keeping a massive profit and using cruise ship visits not happening as leverage to prevent them complaining.

Although the locals told you that Princess is keeping a massive profit, we don't know if that is actually happening. The cruiselines would be working with the administration on the island and it is highly likely that the locals we would see on a visit, do not know the details of the arrangement.

 

Even the mention that "For many years Jinek Bay at Lifou Island has always been managed by the locals with a $5.00 Australian entry fee" isn't correct. I and a lot of others here have snorkelled at Jinek Bay and there was no charge whatsoever. My last time there would have been maybe five years ago. The locals put the price up to $15 a few years ago. I mention these details to demonstrate that the locals telling you the history of charging for snorkelling did not relate it accurately. To me, this casts extra doubt on their present story of the cruiselines ripping them off. It may be been a case of "poor me" so they could extract some money. :D