Veendam - Similar to a 3rd world country???

[donaldsc]

What 3d world country are you using as a comparison?

 

DON

[digitl]

You had a problem. The staff worked with it and tried to remedy it. I am sorry your experience with HAL ships could not give you exactly what you demanded at any given time.

 

I didn't *demand* anything. We have cruised with HAL many times. Sometimes things go wrong. Sometimes I comment on it. I fail to understand why you should involve yourself in my comments with your 'no-one should criticise HAL' agenda.

[Arzeena]

We were considering a B2B New England/Canada cruise in August. The Veendam itinerary is great. However, when we read the ship's reviews we have been very concerned!

 

We do like the smaller ships and really enjoyed the Prinsendam. Our last 3 cruises have been with Celebrity but we have cruised on HAL a number of times too.

 

I'll lower my dining room expectations, but I do believe it is reasonable to expect decent sanitary conditions.

 

How low do I have to set my expectations concerning working bathrooms? Is it unrealistic to expect my cabin to be free of mold and have a working toilet & shower? Functional restrooms in public areas should also be operational. Is lack of maintenance an ongoing problem that HAL finds acceptable?

 

Reading Veendam reviews sent up red flags. I'm wanting to remain healthy & well on vacation. In checking the roll call boards the one on our proposed sail date only has 3 members.

 

Any viewpoints that counteract the horrible reviews? (Maasdam also does this itinerary but their reviews are even worse!)

 

We welcome your advice regarding Veendam experiences.

 

Enjoy your cruise!

[digitl]

What am I missing here?

 

You are missing a careful reading and understanding of my original comment.

 

It really is difficult to understand why you would want to spend so much time in trying to undermine a genuine comment about a genuine experience.

[POA1]

To the OP: I am sorry that your cruise experience was marred by the issues you had. Yes, I KNOW you had an issue and did not make this up out of whole cloth just to complain. Many of us do believe you.

 

The OP hasn't sailed yet. Unless you mean "other poster" instead of "original poster."

[clueless2]

What 3d world country are you using as a comparison?

 

DON

The one where they clean your "house", have good food (either where they bring it to you or you go pick it up), take away your dirty dishes, and take you to all kinds of interesting places.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Forums mobile app

[OlsSalt]

I totally agree with you. there are a few "ladies" on here who have appointed themselves the experts on everything on every inch of every HAL ship on every cruise. If someone dare express an opinion or an experience that was not absolutely perfect that person will be bombarded with comments meant to negate their experience and make him think he was delusional on the cruise.

I guess I need to add a digital thermometer to my "must pack" list from now on. AND, to ensure that I won't be questioned about the accuracy of my thermometer vs one an "expert" used on a different ship on a different cruise, I will get it calibrated and certified the day before I embark :rolleyes:

 

To the OP: I am sorry that your cruise experience was marred by the issues you had. Yes, I KNOW you had an issue and did not make this up out of whole cloth just to complain. Many of us do believe you.

 

I hope you do pack a thermometer so we all can get a better understanding of what people actually mean when they find conditions too warm or too cool. No one is claiming any one individual is making anything up about their own personal temperatures sensitivities so no need to go there.

 

But since HAL does have their own company standards as to their acceptable temperature range, it would be helpful to know if these personal temperature perceptions are within their tolerance levels, or indeed they should be looking for another cruise lines that can accommodate their individual needs better.

 

I'll say it again, slidergirl, maligning other long-time posters, putting words into other posters mouths, and exaggeration for effect really helps no one. Just go with the flow. I'll also say it again, you bring a good and valuable perspective when you stick to your own experiences and not try to censure or mock others.

 

I hope you do pack a thermometer if you want to provide more objective responses about any given ship, instead of the more subjective perceptions which may or may not matter to others who operate in a different temperature variation mode. Your call.

[slidergirl]

I hope you do pack a thermometer so we all can get a better understanding of what people actually mean when they find conditions too warm or too cool. No one is claiming any one individual is making anything up about their own personal temperatures sensitivities so no need to go there.

 

But since HAL does have their own company standards as to their acceptable temperature range, it would be helpful to know if these personal temperature perceptions are within their tolerance levels, or indeed they should be looking for another cruise lines that can accommodate their individual needs better.

 

I'll say it again, slidergirl, maligning other long-time posters, putting words into other posters mouths, and exaggeration for effect really helps no one. Just go with the flow. I'll also say it again, you bring a good and valuable perspective when you stick to your own experiences and not try to censure or mock others.

 

I hope you do pack a thermometer if you want to provide more objective responses about any given ship, instead of the more subjective perceptions which may or may not matter to others who operate in a different temperature variation mode. Your call.

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I named no names - if you took it to be someone you know...

If someone says that are hot or cold, that is not subjective, it is objective based on their personal experience. Hauling around a thermometer to justify how you (not you, but any poster) were hot or cold when you post a entry is just ludicrous. I don't have to put on gloves in the winter until it gets past freezing, but I don't call out someone to be not correct if they put on gloves in the 40s. People have written that their food came out cold - they will immediately be countered by the "well, my food has always been hot, you must have a different definition of hot". Has any review become so subject to bashing by cheerleaders that we want no one to post anything but sunshine and unicorns? Doesn't that demean someone's experience?

[KroozNut]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:If someone says that are hot or cold, that is not subjective

I'm sorry, but that really is the exact definition of subjective (without context). And is what I believe is the core of OlsSalt's argument.:rolleyes:

[OlsSalt]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I named no names - if you took it to be someone you know...

If someone says that are hot or cold, that is not subjective, it is objective based on their personal experience. Hauling around a thermometer to justify how you (not you, but any poster) were hot or cold when you post a entry is just ludicrous. I don't have to put on gloves in the winter until it gets past freezing, but I don't call out someone to be not correct if they put on gloves in the 40s. People have written that their food came out cold - they will immediately be countered by the "well, my food has always been hot, you must have a different definition of hot". Has any review become so subject to bashing by cheerleaders that we want no one to post anything but sunshine and unicorns? Doesn't that demean someone's experience?

 

Sorry you don't want to help others find what is just right this never-ending Veendam Golidlocks and the Three Thermometers story.

[iancal]

It is unclear to me why some people simply cannot accept what other have to say. Surely they can let other readers come to their own conclusion. We certainly do on the positive comments, why not on the neutral or negative comments. After all, HAL is not anyone's first borne child or deity. It is simply another corporate entity that belongs to a large conglomerate.

 

It rather defeats the purpose of the page if posters turn it into a mutual admiration society based on HAL being perfect in every respect.

 

I believe that anyone who has cruise a few times or is a regular cruiser understands that there can be issues with certain ships, certain cruise lines, certain cruises at any given time.

 

If a poster believes that HAL is the be all and end all of all cruise lines and that everything is perfect all of the time then I believe that the vast majority of cruisers, HAL or otherwise, will have to suspend logic in order to subscribe to that belief.

[digitl]

It is unclear to me why some people simply cannot accept what other have to say. Surely they can let other readers come to their own conclusion. We certainly do on the positive comments, why not on the neutral or negative comments. After all, HAL is not anyone's first borne child or deity. It is simply another corporate entity that belongs to a large conglomerate.

 

It rather defeats the purpose of the page if posters turn it into a mutual admiration society based on HAL being perfect in every respect.

 

I believe that anyone who has cruise a few times or is a regular cruiser understands that there can be issues with certain ships, certain cruise lines, certain cruises at any given time.

 

If a poster believes that HAL is the be all and end all of all cruise lines and that everything is perfect all of the time then I believe that the vast majority of cruisers, HAL or otherwise, will have to suspend logic in order to subscribe to that belief.

 

The above.

[TheCalicoCat]

Just remember

Complainers complain the loudest & take the time to complain on Cruise Critic. While those who have a perfectly acceptable time don't bother.

 

(Heck many of them might not have even heard of Cruise Critic - I hadn't until my second or third cruise.)

 

re: 3rd World Country - I've been to places in the USA that are faring far worse than the colloquially understood derogatory countries to which you compare...

[cruisemom42]

I agree that most CC readers have the ability to read information and judge for themselves. It does no one any good to deny that problems sometimes exist on older ships in regard to systems like plumbing and A/C. I read several different boards here regularly and am compelled to say that you do not read about similar problems with the same frequency on those lines, which I assume is due to having a fleet of relatively newer ships compared with HAL.*

 

Is sailing on the Veendam like being in a third world country? I highly doubt it. But I also wouldn't discount that there may, at any time, be some systems problems onboard simply due to her age.

 

The key for me would be the ability (and empowerment) of staff to deal with any such problems in such a way that they don't meaningfully impact my vacation.

 

*That is, unless you want to suggest that HAL passengers are somehow more clueless than passengers on most other lines when it comes to throwing things down the toilet (an excuse I've heard overmuch) and leaving balcony doors open....

[OlsSalt]

......

*That is, unless you want to suggest that HAL passengers are somehow more clueless than passengers on most other lines when it comes to throwing things down the toilet (an excuse I've heard overmuch) and leaving balcony doors open....

 

Could be that the older ships are more sensitive to these problems because they built for a different understanding of collective passenger behavior - more dutiful and willingness to "follow the rules" and before the introduction of a wide variety of personal care tissue products. It will be interesting to see if these common complaint issues subside as these older ships go out of service. I believe new ships have more override systems built into their balcony doors if they are left open. That will help too. A matter of designing ships assuming certain human behavior choices versus designing ships that overcome certain human behavior choices.

[cruisemom42]

Could be that the older ships are more sensitive to these problems because they built for a different understanding of collective passenger behavior - more dutiful and willingness to "follow the rules" and before the introduction of a wide variety of personal care tissue products. It will be interesting to see if these common complaint issues subside as these older ships go out of service. I believe new ships have more override systems built into their balcony doors if they are left open. That will help too. A matter of designing ships assuming certain human behavior choices versus designing ships that overcome certain human behavior choices.

 

It's your firmly held opinion that most issues are due to passenger bad behavior. Not sure I agree. Neither of us can really prove the point, so perhaps it's best to stop hammering it in.

 

I must admit that some of pcheng's recent explanations of the plumbing systems on ships didn't leave me thinking they were quite so sensitive as what is commonly held to be gospel....

[OlsSalt]

It's your firmly held opinion that most issues are due to passenger bad behavior. Not sure I agree. Neither of us can really prove the point, so perhaps it's best to stop hammering it in.

 

I must admit that some of pcheng's recent explanations of the plumbing systems on ships didn't leave me thinking they were quite so sensitive as what is commonly held to be gospel....

 

Chengkp's follow-up posts on both these topics did provide a great deal of practical insight from a ship's engineers viewpoint. Worth it for others to track them down. Particularly how one cabin occupant's misfunction can affect other cabins that may not even be next door. Sorry we don't have a sticky that collects his technical contributions so we can put these ongoing topics to rest. Then others can use his input to decide if a passengers own conduct in these two particularly recurring matters can affect other ship systems or not.

[EDLOS]

Chengkp's follow-up posts on both these topics did provide a great deal of practical insight from a ship's engineers viewpoint. Worth it for others to track them down. Particularly how one cabin occupant's misfunction can affect other cabins that may not even be next door. Sorry we don't have a sticky that collects his technical contributions so we can put these ongoing topics to rest. Then others can use his input to decide if a passengers own conduct in these two particularly recurring matters can affect other ship systems or not.

This and other mundane topics will never be put to rest as long as you are around

[July_Cruiser]

Just remember

Complainers complain the loudest & take the time to complain on Cruise Critic. While those who have a perfectly acceptable time don't bother.

 

(Heck many of them might not have even heard of Cruise Critic - I hadn't until my second or third cruise.)

 

re: 3rd World Country - I've been to places in the USA that are faring far worse than the colloquially understood derogatory countries to which you compare...

 

I think you may have hit upon my reason for making the original post. Looking for some comments to hopefully offset the negatives in regard to just one issue that concerned us. It seems everyone has lost touch with my original question and turned all of this into issues that I never raised. I was looking for some positive comments regarding sanitary conditions, by someone who actually cruised recently on this ship, due to the some reviews that mentioned sewage flowing in the hallways and water dripping on their food from the ceiling above the dining room. Thanks to those who realized that I was trying to "FLUSH" out some good comments.

 

 

My original question stated that we had cruised on the Prinsendam and loved it (probably about the oldest ship and definitely the smallest in the current fleet) as an older ship there were also plumbing repairs being made at various times during our 30 day cruise, but their maintenance people took care of things and we didn't hear much about it impacting other cruisers. Why people recommended, newer ships, megaships and cruiselines like RCL (no thanks we had enough "behemoths of the seas" in a single try years ago.) is a mystery to me! I made NO comments or questions about cabin temperature as we have NEVER experienced that condition or at least we had no issues with temperatures. Again, our original posting we pointed out that we know what to expect food-wise on our cruises and that was also a non-issue with us. We know when and where to get food the way we like it on HAL so that was not an issue unless there was some issue with sanitation which there apparently isn't an issue on Veendam.

 

We have previously cruised twice on the Ryndam so we know what to expect on this class-S size and age of ship. (See top of page 1 for my original posting)

[July_Cruiser]

We do like the smaller ships and really enjoyed the Prinsendam. Our last 3 cruises have been with Celebrity but we have cruised on HAL a number of times too.

 

I'll lower my dining room expectations, but I do believe it is reasonable to expect decent sanitary conditions.

 

How low do I have to set my expectations concerning working bathrooms? Is it unrealistic to expect my cabin to be free of mold and have a working toilet & shower? Functional restrooms in public areas should also be operational. Is lack of maintenance an ongoing problem that HAL finds acceptable?

 

Any viewpoints that counteract the horrible reviews?...

We welcome your advice regarding Veendam experiences.

[Tennessee Titan]

The complainer vs cheerleader soap opera continues (ad infinitum)............

[sammiedawg]

We do like the smaller ships and really enjoyed the Prinsendam. Our last 3 cruises have been with Celebrity but we have cruised on HAL a number of times too.

 

I'll lower my dining room expectations, but I do believe it is reasonable to expect decent sanitary conditions.

 

How low do I have to set my expectations concerning working bathrooms? Is it unrealistic to expect my cabin to be free of mold and have a working toilet & shower? Functional restrooms in public areas should also be operational. Is lack of maintenance an ongoing problem that HAL finds acceptable?

 

Any viewpoints that counteract the horrible reviews?...

We welcome your advice regarding Veendam experiences.

 

 

What difference will more comments make? Mechanical problems, ongoing for years, are very well documented in the reviews and in this forum. This ship is buyer beware, you may luck out or you may not. Personally I wouldn't go.

[OlsSalt]

We do like the smaller ships and really enjoyed the Prinsendam. Our last 3 cruises have been with Celebrity but we have cruised on HAL a number of times too.

 

I'll lower my dining room expectations, but I do believe it is reasonable to expect decent sanitary conditions.

 

How low do I have to set my expectations concerning working bathrooms? Is it unrealistic to expect my cabin to be free of mold and have a working toilet & shower? Functional restrooms in public areas should also be operational. Is lack of maintenance an ongoing problem that HAL finds acceptable?

 

Any viewpoints that counteract the horrible reviews?...

We welcome your advice regarding Veendam experiences.

 

You might want to explore your concerns with the CDC about their vessel sanitation program: VSP https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/

 

Veendam - most recent score 99 out of 100: sounds like a deal killer to me.

https://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionResults.aspx

[cleacat]

Been on the Veendam 4 times, inside (that great cabin K565 that they removed and made 2 cabins), an outside on the promenade deck, an A balcony and one of the extended wraparound balconies on the aft. Had no issues except for the promenade deck cabin, it was very hot. Not sure if it was from people having their lanais open, or if adding the lanais was the problem as had been suggested on this board. Did the Canada/New England itinerary twice, loved it.

[prescottbob]

We've 'tolerated' 4 cruises on the 'Vee' ( an Antarctic, a Voyage of the V's, a Caribbean 'float' and a recent PC transit).

 

The delousing procedure upon disembarking went fine and the short isolation stay (in the airport) worked out even better..

 

Not too worry. The 'Vee' has the 3rd world thing worked out:)

 

Be well.

Bob

 

PS: great crew, 'stuff happens' everywhere.