Murder on Emerald Princess

[SeaMystique]

I'm not a mental health pro either, although I'm married to one and I worked in the field for several years.

DV happens because people have mental health issues. It's more of a symptom than a cause.

From what I read, the wife was a successful high-end real estate salesperson. He seemed to drift from job to job in unrelated fields. Whatever condition he's suffering from, he may have found it difficult to get along with people in the workplace. That's a sign of mental trouble

If she was doing well at work, maybe making the bulk of their income, he may have had resentment issues going back for years. Something may have happened, possibly on the cruise, that triggered the guy. They were traveling with a large group - family members? Whose family? If they were all her relatives, and if he had the perception (justified or not) that they were on "her" side, not "his" - that could have been part of the trigger. "Your sister hates me! Your brother hates me!" Etc. Often mentally ill people feel others are "ganging up" against them. If this killer -- can't just call him a "guy" -- suffered from paranoia in any form, the situation on board may have contributed to his act.

Of course there's no excuse or anything approaching it. The killer needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. "Treatment"? That may work in the land of rainbows and unicorns, maybe, but not in the existing world. I agree with the poster who said, in essence, he can get treatment in prison.

The daughter who said, "I knew he would do it" -- that girl will need a lot of help in understanding that what happened wasn't her fault, and even if she "knew" something, she should never, ever feel responsible. The man killed his wife. He picked up the ladder (if that's what it was) and did the deed. That said, the daughter obviously knew about the tensions in the family and feared her father might explode. According to the news reports, police were never called to their residence .. but I bet there were prior incidents, even if no one outside the home knew about them. Again, I would look to his work history -- and to his parents, siblings, etc., as this sort of thing almost never comes out of nowhere.

I'm not trying to be ghoulish, just discussing what many of us are probably thinking. Murder has always been, and will always be, the worst possible thing one human can do to another. If everyone were so empathic they couldn't stand thinking about details in a case like this, we'd have no psychiatrists. and no police officers. Not a good idea.

Just my 2 cents.

[billymatt]

I notice you carefully avoided weighing in on the presentation of the statistics in order of severity (and killing is pretty severe, I'm sure you'll agree), which is the point I was making.

Huh. Your perception must be severely off, because my sole point was highlighting that

The vast majority of domestic violence is directed at women, not vice versa

was factually incorrect, which is why I quickly pasted a summation addressing the topic I was discussing, rather than going into detail about whose suffering is worse (can you get any more victim blame-y than that???). I can see how the red font and emboldening I used to highlight the point I was addressing can be so confusing!! So, you're saying that your point was specifically made not to address my point? Interesting tactic for a discussion. . .

 

Your blithely ignoring the horrific suffering of millions of other individuals smells like male privilege, but let's just move on.

Ahh, so that's what butthurt looks like!

[triptolemus]

I can't believe with all the comments on this thread that nobody has stopped to think that there is a chance that the husband was the victim of the domestic abuse and just finally snapped. Had the wife killed the husband this is the first thing everybody would have suggested. Anybody can be a victim of domestic abuse, male or female. Nobody should speculate until they have all the facts.

 

I think the the husband's spontaneous utterance of "my life is over" as reported in the FBI affidavit pretty much rules out that scenario.

 

Otherwise, yes, men can certainly be victims of DV

[spleenstomper]

I would like to thank both of you and most of those that have posted here. We are all interested in what has happened. We are stunned that it would happen in a place that most of us think of as such a "happy place", and yet "Inside" we ALL know how stressful a vacation can be, especially one (as this one "may" have been with extended family included. It seems from the perpetrators comments (if accurate) that "she kept laughing at him". We all understand, that we are our spouses/partners #1 defender and especially in an "extended family" situation, when tension can get high, and some family members can very easily feel inferior, the spouse/partner should always be aware of the "other persons" feelings. This crime sounds like a terrible, terrible misunderstanding, hurt feelings can be a major thing. I think that most of us agree that is what "bulling" is about - hurting someone's feelings. I am so so sorry that this happened to this family, to any family. Children, men and women are now damaged for life and this poor woman is dead all over what was probably something she did not STOP to think about. He was hurt to the core and did not know how to tell her, she did not know how to listen, so she is dead! HOW PATHETIC!

 

Some of us choose not to believe murderers. Interesting that you take his side.

[OSUZorba]

Unless, since we don't know ANY of the particulars of their private relationship, it turns out that it was a case of verbal and pychological abuse or bullying by the wife, directed at the husband, and he just finally went off on her, spectacularly. He did state that she wouldn't stop laughing at him. I'm sure that there's precedent. We don't know either way and it's none of our business, but it could happen.

 

Unless he was in fear for his life, there is no justification for beating another person to death. Much less your wife. Considering he said "she was laughing at me" and opposed to "She came at me with a knife." I don't think he was in fear for his life.

 

What you are proposing would be a mitigating factor to be discussed at sentencing and could be the difference in 25 years and the needle, but it does not alleviate him of any responsibility. Further, the fact he was actively trying to ditch the body, kind of shows he didn't think this was self-defense.

 

No one is excusing the murderer. I'm just saying that we are not privy to any of their personal relationship details and that things may not be as they appear on the surface. Everyone is assuming that the husband was a wife beater or otherwise an abuser. It's entirely possible that the opposite may be true. Either way, he murdered her and THAT is inexcusable.

 

I am assuming nothing about their relationship. The post I originally replied by luvbluseas was strongly implying that a wife laughing at you was justification for killing her and it was HER FAULT for not knowing not to laugh at her husband. Again, unless his life was in danger he has no right to beat hear to death. Any abuse he may or may not have been subject to, or other stressors, is something to be discussed at sentencing. And I would feel the same way if it had been the wife who killed the husband.

 

What we know is he killed her, he tried to ditch the body, and he did not claim he did it in self defense.

Edited July 28, 2017 by OSUZorba

[triptolemus]

Dang, raw deal. Instead of Come Back New, it's Come Back Dead.

 

Too soon.

[bUU]

Huh. Your perception must be severely off, because my sole point was highlighting that ...

No. Rather, I believed it was important to post what I posted. Your point was not important enough to me to preclude me posting the point I posted.

 

Unless he was in direct and immediate fear for his life, there is no justification for beating another person to death.

It's really quite disturbing just how doggedly some people are sticking by thoroughly vapid and offensive claims. Of course we can have different opinions about things, but I simply don't believe that if you met any of these people in real life out on the street that they'd be championing a man who killed his wife in any way shape or form. But who knows?

[SeaMystique]

Saying "my life is over" when you've just taken another sounds like narcissistic thinking, inability to empathize, that's a big problem. Did the husband have a history of brain trauma? Damage to the frontal lobes can trigger lack of empathy. Could be early-onset Alzheimers too, or a brain tumor, or other physical conditions. He could be an Aspergers case.Or a million other things.

Still - no excuse.

 

 

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[spleenstomper]

I agree he needs to be medically evaluated for frontal temporal dementia, but it sounds like classic DV murder-- and also the concussion issue if he was an athlete at any point in his life: CTE.

[karatemom2]

Very good post SeaMystique. I think that your point is very well taken. People who have not experienced or known someone who has experienced this don't understand how this kind of thing can go on and no one outside the family would ever know. My husband's father was a violent, angry man who was verbally and physically abusive to his wife and children. The police were never called to their home, even when he drove their car through their garage in a fit of rage. To the outside world, he was a charismatic man - well liked and popular in his field. What happened behind closed doors was known only to his immediate family. He would fly into a rage at the drop of a hat - we walked on eggshells never knowing what would set him off or when it would happen. My mother-in-law in particular bore the brunt of his abuse, yet she stayed with him and died too young I believe from illness brought on by the stress of a life lived with a man who subjected her to a constant cycle of abuse. But when she passed away, publicly people commented about their long marriage and great life. When my father-in-law passed away, people went out of their way to tell me what a nice and charming man he was and how much they liked him. They never, ever knew the demons that he harbored that only his close family witnessed. I have no doubt he was mentally ill and it is sad he couldn't be helped, but it was a tragic, tortuous existence for a kind and wonderful lady who deserved so much better. She could have easily ended up just like this poor woman, but by the grace of God did not. But I saw the rage in him that could have taken him to that place and it was terrifying. So for those commenting here who think they know about the reality of someone suffering domestic violence in silence and hiding, trust me, you don't know anything unless you have lived with someone who is literally Jekyll and Hyde.

[luvbluseas]

Some of us choose not to believe murderers. Interesting that you take his side.

 

 

 

I was not trying to take his side! What he did was totally WRONG, 100% , and he should and hopefully will go to jail for the rest of his life. I was only ruminating on how easily things go wrong. I am a believer that husbands and wives should care about each other and look out for each other. We have one of "those" families where siblings HATE each other and not that we would ever be anywhere together I am aware of how much it has hurt my DH in the past and vice versa. There is no excuse for what he did to her and the pain it causes all those that loved and cared about her. I am sorry if I am not saying this well.

 

 

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[luvbluseas]

Very good post SeaMystique. I think that your point is very well taken. People who have not experienced or known someone who has experienced this don't understand how this kind of thing can go on and no one outside the family would ever know. My husband's father was a violent, angry man who was verbally and physically abusive to his wife and children. The police were never called to their home, even when he drove their car through their garage in a fit of rage. To the outside world, he was a charismatic man - well liked and popular in his field. What happened behind closed doors was known only to his immediate family. He would fly into a rage at the drop of a hat - we walked on eggshells never knowing what would set him off or when it would happen. My mother-in-law in particular bore the brunt of his abuse, yet she stayed with him and died too young I believe from illness brought on by the stress of a life lived with a man who subjected her to a constant cycle of abuse. But when she passed away, publicly people commented about their long marriage and great life. When my father-in-law passed away, people went out of their way to tell me what a nice and charming man he was and how much they liked him. They never, ever knew the demons that he harbored that only his close family witnessed. I have no doubt he was mentally ill and it is sad he couldn't be helped, but it was a tragic, tortuous existence for a kind and wonderful lady who deserved so much better. She could have easily ended up just like this poor woman, but by the grace of God did not. But I saw the rage in him that could have taken him to that place and it was terrifying. So for those commenting here who think they know about the reality of someone suffering domestic violence in silence and hiding, trust me, you don't know anything unless you have lived with someone who is literally Jekyll and Hyde.

 

 

 

You are so right my DH worked in the Psych business for over 30 years and most people have no idea how prevalent this is. But someone has to report it and keep reporting it until they get help!

 

 

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[4cats4me]

Very good post SeaMystique. I think that your point is very well taken. People who have not experienced or known someone who has experienced this don't understand how this kind of thing can go on and no one outside the family would ever know. My husband's father was a violent, angry man who was verbally and physically abusive to his wife and children. The police were never called to their home, even when he drove their car through their garage in a fit of rage. To the outside world, he was a charismatic man - well liked and popular in his field. What happened behind closed doors was known only to his immediate family. He would fly into a rage at the drop of a hat - we walked on eggshells never knowing what would set him off or when it would happen. My mother-in-law in particular bore the brunt of his abuse, yet she stayed with him and died too young I believe from illness brought on by the stress of a life lived with a man who subjected her to a constant cycle of abuse. But when she passed away, publicly people commented about their long marriage and great life. When my father-in-law passed away, people went out of their way to tell me what a nice and charming man he was and how much they liked him. They never, ever knew the demons that he harbored that only his close family witnessed. I have no doubt he was mentally ill and it is sad he couldn't be helped, but it was a tragic, tortuous existence for a kind and wonderful lady who deserved so much better. She could have easily ended up just like this poor woman, but by the grace of God did not. But I saw the rage in him that could have taken him to that place and it was terrifying. So for those commenting here who think they know about the reality of someone suffering domestic violence in silence and hiding, trust me, you don't know anything unless you have lived with someone who is literally Jekyll and Hyde.

 

 

 

[emoji80][emoji80][emoji80]

[spleenstomper]

I was not trying to take his side! What he did was totally WRONG, 100% , and he should and hopefully will go to jail for the rest of his life. I was only ruminating on how easily things go wrong. I am a believer that husbands and wives should care about each other and look out for each other. We have one of "those" families where siblings HATE each other and not that we would ever be anywhere together I am aware of how much it has hurt my DH in the past and vice versa. There is no excuse for what he did to her and the pain it causes all those that loved and cared about her. I am sorry if I am not saying this well.

 

 

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Got it.

 

A DV survivor said it best elsewhere: she let her guard down. She likely felt comfortable with her family around and in a very public setting of a cruise ship. DV murders happen when women let their guards down. He destroyed her the minute she got comfortable and forgot to stay on edge.

[SuzyL]

I notice you carefully avoided weighing in on the presentation of the statistics in order of severity (and killing is pretty severe, I'm sure you'll agree), which is the point I was making.

 

Your blithely ignoring the horrific suffering of millions of other individuals smells like male privilege, but let's just move on.

 

Thank you! I could not have said it better.

[DaisyRose]

I am saddned by the petty bickering on this thread. I have great sympathy for everyone touched by this tragedy. We should just keep them in our thoughts and prayer.

[Thorncroft]

Not all abuse is physical. Not all abusers are men. I don't know what was going on between them and I'm not making excuses for him. No telling who was doing what to whom. He murdered her and deserves whatever he gets and probably more.

[triptolemus]

I am saddned by the petty bickering on this thread. I have great sympathy for everyone touched by this tragedy. We should just keep them in our thoughts and prayer.

 

Thoughts and prayers are nice, but they do very little (nothing) to solve much of anything.

 

Discussion of the underlying issue here -- domestic violence -- is hugely important and should not be dismissed as petty bickering.

[elliair]

Thoughts and prayers are nice, but they do very little (nothing) to solve much of anything.

 

Discussion of the underlying issue here -- domestic violence -- is hugely important and should not be dismissed as petty bickering.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that alcohol played a role in this. The news article said "She wouldn't quit laughing at me!" Very bad excuse to murder your wife for. Perhaps there was some other underlying issues in the relationship. The article also said they were celebrating their wedding anniversary. Geez, some celebration! I agree about the thoughts and prayers comment. it does nothing to solve much of anything. Justice will be served.

[tonit964]

There's no doubt in my mind that alcohol played a role in this. The news article said "She wouldn't quit laughing at me!" Very bad excuse to murder your wife for. Perhaps there was some other underlying issues in the relationship. The article also said they were celebrating their wedding anniversary. Geez, some celebration! I agree about the thoughts and prayers comment. it does nothing to solve much of anything. Justice will be served.

 

 

It doesn't always have to be alcohol that is the reason when something like this happens. It's possible he is dealing with mental illness and wasn't taking his medications.

[elliair]

You are so right my DH worked in the Psych business for over 30 years and most people have no idea how prevalent this is. But someone has to report it and keep reporting it until they get help!

 

 

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Back 60+ years ago up until recent years, reporting domestic violence wasn't something that you called the cops to come break up the situation. I grew up with such a man, I don't call him my father, when I address his name I say "the sperm donor." He's been deceased now for 20 years, the scars never leave you. The egg donor is still living, she divorced him, then 5 years later took him back and started the abuse all over again. I have nothing to do with her, so, no one really knows until you've lived it. BTW, alcohol does play a part in a lot of DV.

[triptolemus]

It doesn't always have to be alcohol that is the reason when something like this happens. It's possible he is dealing with mental illness and wasn't taking his medications.

 

If the result of him not taking medications is him bashing his wife's skull in, then he should be locked up for that, too.

[elliair]

It doesn't always have to be alcohol that is the reason when something like this happens. It's possible he is dealing with mental illness and wasn't taking his medications.

 

Alcohol = medication, whatever they use to mellow out and then go bonkers. The least little thing would set the sperm donor off. Even suggest that he see a psychiatrist, would send a hand across your face. I understand DV very well. I'm so glad I'm with someone who is a real nice guy. We've been married for 48 years and I wouldn't do anything different. I feel very fortunate to live the last 50 years DV free.

[KristyMisty14]

If the result of him not taking medications is him bashing his wife's skull in, then he should be locked up for that, too.

 

Little harsh description .... or did you read that description in the FBI affidavit??

[Northern Bear]

We have family members onboard the Emerald and their cabin is two away from the scene. Apparently, there was a large group of family traveling together occupying several cabins. We talked to my brother in law a bit ago and he said it was horrible. People were screaming and running up and down the halls covered with blood trying to get help. My BIL and 4 other men were getting ready to storm the cabin, but then security showed up.

 

 

Disregard, found the answer to my question. Wish you could cancel a post...

Edited July 28, 2017 by Northern Bear
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