Murder on Emerald Princess

[caribill]

I can't believe with all the comments on this thread that nobody has stopped to think that there is a chance that the husband was the victim of the domestic abuse and just finally snapped. Had the wife killed the husband this is the first thing everybody would have suggested. Anybody can be a victim of domestic abuse, male or female. Nobody should speculate until they have all the facts.

 

 

As one person on the ship said:

 

Their young daughter ran for help. “She was saying to my sister-in-law, ‘I knew my dad would do this. I knew he would do this,’” the passenger said.

[floridalover5623]

The cabin number was already reported almost 24 hours ago.

It just goes to show that not everyone reads every comment posted before commenting.

[OSUZorba]

Pathetic Victim Blaming

 

I just want to say this is the sickest and worst post I've ever seen on CC. It is never the DV victim's fault, especially a murder victim. I don't care what the situation was, it is never okay to beat your wife to death in front of your kids. At least most victim blamers have the courtesy/smarts to dog whistle their victim blaming.

Edited July 28, 2017 by OSUZorba

[Thorncroft]

I just want to say this is the sickest and worst post I've ever seen on CC. It is never the DV victim's fault, especially a murder victim. I don't care what the situation was, it is never okay to beat your wife to death in front of your kids. At least most victim blamers have the courtesy/smarts to dog whistle their victim blaming.

 

Unless, since we don't know ANY of the particulars of their private relationship, it turns out that it was a case of verbal and pychological abuse or bullying by the wife, directed at the husband, and he just finally went off on her, spectacularly. He did state that she wouldn't stop laughing at him. I'm sure that there's precedent. We don't know either way and it's none of our business, but it could happen.

[bUU]

I just want to say this is the sickest and worst post I've ever seen on CC.

Hmmm... perhaps. I'm not sure. However, as I posted early this morning, resorting to physical violence is never an acceptable reaction to anything other than physical violence itself, no matter how bad someone is making you feel.

[Cushing985]

Unless, since we don't know ANY of the particulars of their private relationship, it turns out that it was a case of verbal and pychological abuse or bullying by the wife, directed at the husband, and he just finally went off on her, spectacularly. He did state that she wouldn't stop laughing at him. I'm sure that there's precedent. We don't know either way and it's none of our business, but it could happen.

 

There is never,ever a reason for hitting your wife. As an alternative, if the spouse is being abused in any manner, hire a lawyer and get a divorce.

[LH25]

Unless, since we don't know ANY of the particulars of their private relationship, it turns out that it was a case of verbal and pychological abuse or bullying by the wife, directed at the husband, and he just finally went off on her, spectacularly. He did state that she wouldn't stop laughing at him. I'm sure that there's precedent. We don't know either way and it's none of our business, but it could happen.

 

I tend to discount what he's saying, esp. now. I think it's part of the pattern of abusers to blame their victims, IE "She made me do it".

 

Regardless, it's a tragedy and I esp. feel for the kids. What a horrible thing to have happen.

[grandmaC123]

I think making excuses for the murderer is wrong, she didn't hand him the weapon , he hit her with . I agree a husband never ever hits his wife if he's a man . Best thing walk away

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ERvet]

Unless, since we don't know ANY of the particulars of their private relationship, it turns out that it was a case of verbal and pychological abuse or bullying by the wife, directed at the husband, and he just finally went off on her, spectacularly. He did state that she wouldn't stop laughing at him. I'm sure that there's precedent. We don't know either way and it's none of our business, but it could happen.

 

 

 

Please say you're not serious? I don't deny women can be just as verbally abusive as men (often more so) but that is not and will never been an excuse for murder.

She's being mean? He's being mean? Walk away, shut a door between you until you've calmed down. No calming then best to rethink your relationship.

 

Violence= never.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[framer]

I see a made for TV movie coming soon...

 

framer

[Thorncroft]

There is never,ever a reason for hitting your wife. As an alternative, if the spouse is being abused in any manner, hire a lawyer and get a divorce.

 

Did I say that there was?

[Thorncroft]

Please say you're not serious? I don't deny women can be just as verbally abusive as men (often more so) but that is not and will never been an excuse for murder.

She's being mean? He's being mean? Walk away, shut a door between you until you've calmed down. No calming then best to rethink your relationship.

 

Violence= never.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

No one is excusing the murderer. I'm just saying that we are not privy to any of their personal relationship details and that things may not be as they appear on the surface. Everyone is assuming that the husband was a wife beater or otherwise an abuser. It's entirely possible that the opposite may be true. Either way, he murdered her and THAT is inexcusable.

[coopco]

This is a perfect example of what I just said. Why are THESE family victims more worthy of a gofund me effort than the family victims of the thousands of other murders that occur? Particularly the many that involve poor inner city kids who couldn't even dream about ever going on a cruise?

 

Certainly anyone can do what they choose with their resources. I just don't get the perspective, nor the priorities.

 

I never said they were more worthy. I often give to "Go Fund Me" or charities after a disaster, etc. Just this week I gave money to a local children's football team in an impoverished area of the city where I live. I have given money to "Go Fund Me" accounts of people who have unexpectedly lost both parents during a span of a few years. I am careful to make sure the fund is genuine. If you don't want to contribute, don't. But don't knock people who want to help strangers.

[KristyMisty14]

No one is excusing the murderer. I'm just saying that we are not privy to any of their personal relationship details and that things may not be as they appear on the surface. Everyone is assuming that the husband was a wife beater or otherwise an abuser. It's entirely possible that the opposite may be true. Either way, he murdered her and THAT is inexcusable.

 

I agree with everything you just wrote... August 10th I'm sure we will know more.

[hansolosmom]

Wow - this thread has gotten crazy!

None of us know the family, so none of us know anything about their relationship. So we can't jump to conclusions about on-going domestic violence. Because the daughter said "I knew he'd do this" may or may not mean it's been on-going and if you look at it could come from either side as the abuser or the abused

It could have been:

I knew he'd do it because he's been doing it and it's been getting worse

I knew he'd do it because he's been pushed to the breaking point

I knew he'd do it because this singular argument was out of control

 

I thank the OP for posting in a informational manner,

I also hope and pray the children can somehow deal with this trauma. Also, that those near the incident and heard or saw anything can also work through this.

[billymatt]

Let's just be real here. While your comment may be well-meaning, it is not really grounded in statistical fact or reason. The vast majority of domestic violence is directed at women, not vice versa. So yes, people will naturally address the victim - in this case a woman who was by all accounts a lovely, wonderful person and great Mom who was brutally murdered by her much larger and clearly very angry husband who then tried to throw her body overboard. So, while I'm not denying anyone their presumption of innocence or day in court, I will vehemently argue against any scenario that even remotely tries to paint this woman - the victim who was bludgeoned to death - as anything other than that - the victim! It is tragic.

 

(citation needed) (especially one grounded in statistical fact and/or reason)

From this article, reporting on data from CDC surveys:

Yet in 2010, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released data from its National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey - and one of the most shocking statistics wasn’t just the sheer total of victims of physical violence but also how those numbers broke down by gender.

According to the CDC’s statistics — estimates based on more than 18,000 telephone-survey responses in the United States — roughly 5,365,000 men had been victims of intimate partner physical violence in the previous 12 months, compared with 4,741,000 women. By the study’s definition, physical violence includes slapping, pushing, and shoving.

More severe threats like being beaten, burned, choked, kicked, slammed with a heavy object, or hit with a fist were also tracked. Roughly 40 percent of the victims of severe physical violence were men. The CDC repeated the survey in 2011, the results of which were published in 2014, and found almost identical numbers — with the percentage of male severe physical violence victims slightly rising.

 

I guess it depends on your definition of "vast majority," but I would think that a 3:2 ratio doesn't exactly qualify.

[SheriffJoe]

In reading this story in the Daily Mail - which tends to sensationalize the news but they do give a lot of information. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4734962/Federal-authorities-announce-charges-cruise-ship-death.html

It is very heartbreaking to hear about the women's death, her name, photo, job info and photos of her three children and husband.

 

What is sickening is the reaction of some of the passengers - Such as "Passengers were kept aboard the ship for much of the day Wednesday, prompting some grumbling," and "My kids were so bored.."

 

A sad commentary on our times.

 

Whats "sickening" about this? Do you stop your entire life every time someone in your city gets murdered....I too if onboard in Juneau, especially if I had never been there and maybe never going back having NOTHING to do with the investigation would be upset if kept sitting around all day for no reason.

[Pierlesscruisers]

Talk about going off subject!! Take all this discussion about rights, spousal abuse, etc. to Facebook or somewhere else. This forum is for cruising subjects.

 

Tom

[KristyMisty14]

Wow - this thread has gotten crazy!

None of us know the family, so none of us know anything about their relationship. So we can't jump to conclusions about on-going domestic violence. .

 

Agree to this as well, a lot assumptions and speculations.

[bUU]

<misleading detail>

Best not to rely on second-hand sources when the first-hand source is available. This is the actual study report:

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nisvs/index.html

 

This is the summary:

1 in 4 women, and 1 in 9 men, were victims of contact sexual violence, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner with a negative impact such as injury, fear, concern for safety, needing services. About 1 in 3 women and nearly 1 in 6 men were victims of contact sexual violence at some part in their lives. Nearly 23 million women and 1.7 million men have been victims of rape or attempted rape at some point in their lives.

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nisvs/infographic.html

 

Apparently, the only metric for which men outnumber women as victims is the "slapping, pushing, shoving" metric. Bad, no question, but for all the more horrific metrics, women outnumber men as victims.

[sfaaa]

Talk about going off subject!! Take all this discussion about rights, spousal abuse, etc. to Facebook or somewhere else. This forum is for cruising subjects.

 

Tom

 

Murder on a cruise ship is a cruise ship subject.

[ERvet]

No one is excusing the murderer. I'm just saying that we are not privy to any of their personal relationship details and that things may not be as they appear on the surface. Everyone is assuming that the husband was a wife beater or otherwise an abuser. It's entirely possible that the opposite may be true. Either way, he murdered her and THAT is inexcusable.

 

 

 

I acknowledge we don't know all the details. But if their daughter really did say she knew her dad would do this one day it certainly does look like it's happened before.

I'm no psychiatrist or human health practitioner and certainly don't understand the dynamics of why women stay with abusers. But it looks like another tragedy from DV.

Horrible all around.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[billymatt]

Best not to rely on second-hand sources when the first-hand source is available. This is the actual study report:

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nisvs/index.html

 

This is the summary:https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nisvs/infographic.html

 

Apparently, the only metric for which men outnumber women as victims is the "slapping, pushing, shoving" metric. Bad, no question, but for all the more horrific metrics, women outnumber men as victims.

I notice you carefully avoided weighing in on the use and/or validity of "vast majority," which is the point I was making. . .

 

(but good job blithely tossing aside the suffering of millions of individuals for not being part of the "more horrific metrics")

[bUU]

I notice you carefully avoided weighing in on the use and/or validity of "vast majority," which is the point I was making. . .

I notice you carefully avoided weighing in on the presentation of the statistics in order of severity (and killing is pretty severe, I'm sure you'll agree), which is the point I was making.

 

(but good job blithely tossing aside the suffering of millions of individuals for not being part of the "more horrific metrics")

Your blithely ignoring the horrific suffering of millions of other individuals smells like male privilege, but let's just move on.

[Aquahound]

I acknowledge we don't know all the details. But if their daughter really did say she knew her dad would do this one day it certainly does look like it's happened before.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think she said "one day." The reports I read didn't include those 2 words. Without those 2 words, her utterance might only have been referring to what was happening that evening.

 

Either way, I agree with those who say that too much speculation is going on. At this point, we don't know all that occurred and what was said in that room, and even earlier in the evening. All we really know is the facts that were presented in the FBI affidavit.