Diamond Princess - Japan - Forced Traditional Dining

[ggprincess2004]

Because it is a regular problem for the duration of the entire cruise for the past 4 years of doing that ship in Japan.

 

For the almost the entire duration of that cruise there were 6 empty seats on a table for 8 with two total strangers. A pman turned up on the second night and never came back down again, I saw him the following night in the bar and he said he asked for an earlier sitting and was moved to Club Class. A third person came down occasionally, I got tired of it so I spend 3 nights in Sabatini's, 3 nights in the Sushi Restaurant and another 1 night in the steak house.

 

In 2016 I was in a full suite and on the first night had a specialty restaurant pass. By the second night I arrive at my allocated table of 6 only to find they have reallocated my seat because I did not turn up on the first night. Seeing "suite" stamped on the cruise card they could not turn down my dining allocation so simply added another seat to the table.

 

In my opinion it is a holiday, why be uncomfortable on a holiday. Traditional dining has always existed for those who want it. However any-time dining and meeting many new people with a full table has always suited me better than this stupid system they have set up on the Diamond Princess.

 

 

Perhaps it is time to change cruise lines if this is so annoying that you cannot let it go.

[BassettMom]

Perhaps it is time to change cruise lines if this is so annoying that you cannot let it go.

Agree. OP should stop sailing on the Diamond. Personally, I loved the cruise so much, I booked another one in 2019. I've done both traditional and anytime and had no issues with traditional on either the Diamond or the Pacific (or Ocean) which also has only traditional seating.

 

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[Brisbane41]

Agree. OP should stop sailing on the Diamond. Personally, I loved the cruise so much, I booked another one in 2019. I've done both traditional and anytime and had no issues with traditional on either the Diamond or the Pacific (or Ocean) which also has only traditional seating.

 

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Don't be ridiculous, boycotting a ship or cruise line over dining! seriously? I love the Diamond Princess and I love cruising out of Japan. It is peaceful, a great country to visit, the mood on the ship is so much better than other areas of the world. I am certainly not going to give up that ship and region just because of the dining situation. The dining situation can be changed. It is easy to force policy change and I am in the process of discussing it right now with customer relations to bring back anytime dining. I am not seeking compensation or anything like that. I am just in serious discussions with the team right now to try and implement a change of policy to bring back anytime dining to Diamond Princess in Japan and make it work.

[BassettMom]

Don't be ridiculous, boycotting a ship or cruise line over dining! seriously? I love the Diamond Princess and I love cruising out of Japan. It is peaceful, a great country to visit, the mood on the ship is so much better than other areas of the world. I am certainly not going to give up that ship and region just because of the dining situation. The dining situation can be changed. It is easy to force policy change and I am in the process of discussing it right now with customer relations to bring back anytime dining. I am not seeking compensation or anything like that. I am just in serious discussions with the team right now to try and implement a change of policy to bring back anytime dining to Diamond Princess in Japan and make it work.

 

From your posts, you seem to be so dissatisfied, so I don't believe it is ridiculous to suggest not sailing on the Diamond (or other ships which are limited to traditional dining). And your poll indicates that you just don't want to "bring back anytime dining" but to abolish traditional dining. While you may be "in discussions with the team," I don't believe it is easy to "force policy change." Policies within a company change based on whether they are fiscally sound to do so, not because one dissatisfied person says it should be changed. There are many Japanese who prefer traditional dining. And many others who have no issues with dining with others regardless of where they come from, their beliefs, or their age (which you seem to have an issue with).

 

You really should let this go--the more you post, the more you show your biases.

[grouchomarx]

I would NEVER, repeat NEVER go on a cruise without anytime dining. I have been cruising about 10 years and have always done anytime dining at a table for two on several different cruise lines. I find the whole "traditional dining" concept incredibly antiquated and not suited to many people. I get it the people who started out cruising that way when there was no other option may be loyal to it and enjoy it but I find it extremely unnatural to a) be told when I have to eat, same every day, and b) eat with a bunch of strangers who may or may NOT be acceptable company. I do enjoy meeting new people almost anywhere. I don't find a fixed dinner an organic way for that to happen. You get who you're stuck with, as opposed to meeting some folks, say at a bar, or by the pool, that you can sense you may have something in common with, or whose company you can enjoy. And if you do start chatting with some new people and find you don't like them or they're just awful, you can get away from them and never see them again! Just as the traditional diners want to keep that format, the anytime diners are entitled to have their format too. And yes, 2 people sitting at a table for 8 with no other diners is bizarre, to say the least. Would you accept that in a restaurant on land? You'd be asking why are we at this stupid huge table, just two of us? Dining on vacation should be just as relaxing and enjoyable, if not more so, than at home.

[grouchomarx]

No, it wouldn't bother me at all. I would have enough empathy to realize that many people are jet lagged, tired, still unpacking, etc on the first night of the cruise and may prefer not to eat in the MDR at that time. I am also aware that if some diners don't show up, we will be served and be able to get out of the dining room earlier. So why is that a problem for you?

 

It's nothing to do with empathy, it's an example of a dysfunctional system.

[BassettMom]

I would NEVER, repeat NEVER go on a cruise without anytime dining. I have been cruising about 10 years and have always done anytime dining at a table for two on several different cruise lines. I find the whole "traditional dining" concept incredibly antiquated and not suited to many people. I get it the people who started out cruising that way when there was no other option may be loyal to it and enjoy it but I find it extremely unnatural to a) be told when I have to eat, same every day, and b) eat with a bunch of strangers who may or may NOT be acceptable company. I do enjoy meeting new people almost anywhere. I don't find a fixed dinner an organic way for that to happen. You get who you're stuck with, as opposed to meeting some folks, say at a bar, or by the pool, that you can sense you may have something in common with, or whose company you can enjoy. And if you do start chatting with some new people and find you don't like them or they're just awful, you can get away from them and never see them again! Just as the traditional diners want to keep that format, the anytime diners are entitled to have their format too. And yes, 2 people sitting at a table for 8 with no other diners is bizarre, to say the least. Would you accept that in a restaurant on land? You'd be asking why are we at this stupid huge table, just two of us? Dining on vacation should be just as relaxing and enjoyable, if not more so, than at home.

 

I understand that anytime works for you. Many times I cruise solo, and have tried anytime dining and prefer traditional since I prefer to meet others for dinner. Yes dining on vacation should be relaxing, but during anytime, I did have a large table and there wasn't two of us, there was just me. After a while, the waiter apologized and said there wasn't anyone else who wanted to share--that is very bizarre. So I went back to traditional dining--it works for me.

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone that traditional is always the way to go. I think people should do what works for them and obviously, anytime is best for you and the OP. What I have a problem with is the poll and the OP wanting to ABOLISH traditional dining. If you don't like traditional and say you won't go on a ship that only has traditional, that is your choice and I respect that. I also believe you have the right to express that opinion to Princess when you fill out the surveys etc., but don't agree with starting a poll on Cruise Critic to abolish traditional dining and stating they are in discussions to force a policy change. You don't want to be forced to endure traditional dining, and therefore I assume you wouldn't book a cruise on the Diamond or the Pacific. If others feel that strongly and the ships with only traditional dining start sailing less than half full, then I would expect Princess will make adjustments that are fiscally responsible. But the fact is the cruises do sail full, so obviously a lot of people don't have a problem with it.

 

Just as you and the OP don't want to be forced to endure traditional dining, I don't want to be forced to endure anytime. It's the reason I won't sail on the cruise lines that only have "anytime/freetime" dining. I have a preference and exercise my preferences by booking cruises suitable to my choice. Choices are good, but abolishing one in favor of another isn't allowing for choices.

 

Just my opinion of course.

[grouchomarx]

I understand that anytime works for you. Many times I cruise solo, and have tried anytime dining and prefer traditional since I prefer to meet others for dinner. Yes dining on vacation should be relaxing, but during anytime, I did have a large table and there wasn't two of us, there was just me. After a while, the waiter apologized and said there wasn't anyone else who wanted to share--that is very bizarre. So I went back to traditional dining--it works for me.

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone that traditional is always the way to go. I think people should do what works for them and obviously, anytime is best for you and the OP. What I have a problem with is the poll and the OP wanting to ABOLISH traditional dining. If you don't like traditional and say you won't go on a ship that only has traditional, that is your choice and I respect that. I also believe you have the right to express that opinion to Princess when you fill out the surveys etc., but don't agree with starting a poll on Cruise Critic to abolish traditional dining and stating they are in discussions to force a policy change. You don't want to be forced to endure traditional dining, and therefore I assume you wouldn't book a cruise on the Diamond or the Pacific. If others feel that strongly and the ships with only traditional dining start sailing less than half full, then I would expect Princess will make adjustments that are fiscally responsible. But the fact is the cruises do sail full, so obviously a lot of people don't have a problem with it.

 

Just as you and the OP don't want to be forced to endure traditional dining, I don't want to be forced to endure anytime. It's the reason I won't sail on the cruise lines that only have "anytime/freetime" dining. I have a preference and exercise my preferences by booking cruises suitable to my choice. Choices are good, but abolishing one in favor of another isn't allowing for choices.

 

Just my opinion of course.

 

I did not interpret abolishing forced traditional dining to mean get rid of it. I thought it meant, stop forcing traditional on everyone and have both fixed and anytime. I think it's a poorly worded survey personally and I totally agree, I think for cruise lines that still a large customer base that wants both fixed dining and anytime they should offer both.

[Tiggerontheseas]

I did not interpret abolishing forced traditional dining to mean get rid of it. I thought it meant, stop forcing traditional on everyone and have both fixed and anytime. I think it's a poorly worded survey personally and I totally agree, I think for cruise lines that still a large customer base that wants both fixed dining and anytime they should offer both.

 

I agree with your interpretation of the poll wording. He's asking to abolish the 'forced' traditional dining not abolish traditional dining. But it's overly dramatic and would have probably been less confusing to just say 'Allow Anytime Dining'.

[minniem]

I'm guessing Princess had a reason for choosing not to have anytime dining on this ship. I would not attempt to guess what it was but I'm sure is was not a personal attack on the anytime people. Sometimes we can't have everything the way we want it. Maybe, just maybe, their reason trumps your wish for anytime dining.

It's good to let Princess know how you feel. But again maybe they did it for a reason and you may not get what you want. In that case you have other options. If they are sailing full they are less likely to make a change to accommodate you.

[cheznandy]

I'm guessing Princess had a reason for choosing not to have anytime dining on this ship. I would not attempt to guess what it was but I'm sure is was not a personal attack on the anytime people. Sometimes we can't have everything the way we want it. Maybe, just maybe, their reason trumps your wish for anytime dining.

It's good to let Princess know how you feel. But again maybe they did it for a reason and you may not get what you want. In that case you have other options. If they are sailing full they are less likely to make a change to accommodate you.

 

The Diamond usually spends 6 months of the year cruising from Sydney. They offer Anytime and Traditional while here. So yes, there must be reasons they only offer Traditional while in Japan.

[BassettMom]

I did not interpret abolishing forced traditional dining to mean get rid of it. I thought it meant, stop forcing traditional on everyone and have both fixed and anytime. I think it's a poorly worded survey personally and I totally agree, I think for cruise lines that still a large customer base that wants both fixed dining and anytime they should offer both.

 

I agree with your interpretation of the poll wording. He's asking to abolish the 'forced' traditional dining not abolish traditional dining. But it's overly dramatic and would have probably been less confusing to just say 'Allow Anytime Dining'.

 

You could be right and I simply misread it, but it definitely isn't worded very well.

[BassettMom]

I'm guessing Princess had a reason for choosing not to have anytime dining on this ship. I would not attempt to guess what it was but I'm sure is was not a personal attack on the anytime people. Sometimes we can't have everything the way we want it. Maybe, just maybe, their reason trumps your wish for anytime dining.

It's good to let Princess know how you feel. But again maybe they did it for a reason and you may not get what you want. In that case you have other options. If they are sailing full they are less likely to make a change to accommodate you.

 

The Diamond usually spends 6 months of the year cruising from Sydney. They offer Anytime and Traditional while here. So yes, there must be reasons they only offer Traditional while in Japan.

 

For this cruise, I was accompanied by my SIL (most of my cruises are solo), and my aunt and uncle had also booked. My SIL is American (as am I), but my aunt and uncle are Japanese. While my aunt speaks some English, my uncle doesn't speak English at all. We had our reservations linked as we wanted to have dinner together. Unfortunately, we found we were assigned to different tables, so we met with the maitre d the first day to get it changed. He was a bit puzzled that we would want to sit at a Japanese-speaking table, but when I explained that I could always talk to my aunt and SIL, my uncle wouldn't be able to talk with anyone other than my aunt unless we were at a Japanese-speaking table. He was very happy to accommodate us and we were reassigned to a table with another Japanese couple and had a wonderful time--so much so that we were one of the last to leave each night and even arranged to meet for breakfast a few times. My point is, that it wasn't that difficult to change at all, so the OP could easily have asked for another table that suited him/her better.

 

The maitre d also came to our meet and greet on board and did take time to explain why they did traditional dining on the Diamond. This ship was designed for the Japanese cruise market and everything is done in both English and Japanese (all signs are posted both in English and Japanese, the patters are printed in both languages, all announcements are done in both languages, etc.). Because of the differences in languages and to be sure that passengers can communicate with each other not just with each other, but also with their waiters, traditional dining is used for this ship, and seating assignments are done using the passports to indicated nationality (and presumably language). Also, the Japanese passengers (who tend to be a bit more formal and orderly) seem to prefer a set dining time. Both my aunt and uncle and the Japanese couple at our table agreed (but of course they were only 4 Japanese out of half the ship, so I can't confirm that is true, but based on the Japanese people I do know both in Japan and in the US, that tends to be more true than not).

 

Despite what the OP said about waiters not speaking Japanese and only pointing to the menu, both our waiter and assistant waiter did in fact speak Japanese, especially our assistant waiter who was almost fluent. In talking with them, they told me that because they do speak some Japanese, the tables they handle are usually Japanese speaking; they also told me that when their contract is renewed, they would be back on the Diamond because they can speak the language (at least more than most others in the Princess fleet). I'm sure the OP is correct and that the majority do not speak much Japanese, but for those few that do, Princess would place Japanese speaking passengers at those tables.

 

When the maitre d told us that table assignments were made based on passports, he explained that it was to be sure that primarily English speaking people would be sitting with English speaking, Chinese speaking (and there were quite a few Chinese on board) seated with Chinese speaking, Japanese speaking (which was about half the ship) seated with Japanese speaking, etc. He said this would be very difficult to handle each and every night in Anytime Dining with long waits of half-filled tables to be sure the "right language" was at the right table.

 

Since this is not the "usual" Princess ship, this all made sense to me, as well as to those I talked with afterward who were at the Meet and Greet and who would have preferred anytime dining, but understood why on this specific ship, it wasn't offered.

 

Again, I'm saying it's perfect and that everyone should "like it", but just offering my experience and what we were told as to why the ship only has traditional fixed dining.

[voljeep]

how exactly is the Diamond 'designed for the Japanese cruise market'?

[BassettMom]

Again, I'm saying it's perfect and that everyone should "like it", but just offering my experience and what we were told as to why the ship only has traditional fixed dining.

 

Sorry, my fingers were going faster than my mind--meant to say "I'm NOT saying it's perfect..."

[BassettMom]

how exactly is the Diamond 'designed for the Japanese cruise market'?

 

As I mentioned, all the signage has been redone so that all signs are in both English and Japanese. In addition, there is a sushi restaurant on board, Kai Sushi (although it really wasn't being used much...I guess because the Japanese can have sushi at home as my aunt explained it). Japanese baths were added to the aft deck, one for women and one for men, and Japanese toilets were put into the public areas (I heard they were originally in all the cabins as well, but I didn't sail when this was the case). Our cabin did have a "hot pot" or "kettle" for tea since the Japanese do drink a lot of tea. Japanese staff were hired for areas like passenger services as well as on the cruise director's staff and some of the entertainment is geared toward Japanese passengers. While a lot of the shows were the same, there was also trivia in English, and trivia in Japanese, and karaoke every night of the cruise. The on-demand TV had both English and Japanese movies, and MUTS had Japanese subtitles. Some of this could be quickly changed (entertainment), while others such as adding Japanese baths and Japanese toilets were specifically created for the Diamond and modified during a dry dock. At that time of course, Princess fully intended to specifically targeted the Japanese cruise market by making these modifications.

[USN59-79]

As I mentioned, all the signage has been redone so that all signs are in both English and Japanese. In addition, there is a sushi restaurant on board, Kai Sushi (although it really wasn't being used much...I guess because the Japanese can have sushi at home as my aunt explained it). Japanese baths were added to the aft deck, one for women and one for men, and Japanese toilets were put into the public areas (I heard they were originally in all the cabins as well, but I didn't sail when this was the case). Our cabin did have a "hot pot" or "kettle" for tea since the Japanese do drink a lot of tea. Japanese staff were hired for areas like passenger services as well as on the cruise director's staff and some of the entertainment is geared toward Japanese passengers. While a lot of the shows were the same, there was also trivia in English, and trivia in Japanese, and karaoke every night of the cruise. The on-demand TV had both English and Japanese movies, and MUTS had Japanese subtitles. Some of this could be quickly changed (entertainment), while others such as adding Japanese baths and Japanese toilets were specifically created for the Diamond and modified during a dry dock. At that time of course, Princess fully intended to specifically targeted the Japanese cruise market by making these modifications.

We just spent 32 days on the Diamond and I feel that Princess did an excellent job in accommodating both the English and Japanese speaking cruisers.

[BassettMom]

We just spent 32 days on the Diamond and I feel that Princess did an excellent job in accommodating both the English and Japanese speaking cruisers.

Absolutely agree!

 

 

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[Brisbane41]

From your posts, you seem to be so dissatisfied, so I don't believe it is ridiculous to suggest not sailing on the Diamond (or other ships which are limited to traditional dining). And your poll indicates that you just don't want to "bring back anytime dining" but to abolish traditional dining. While you may be "in discussions with the team," I don't believe it is easy to "force policy change." Policies within a company change based on whether they are fiscally sound to do so, not because one dissatisfied person says it should be changed. There are many Japanese who prefer traditional dining. And many others who have no issues with dining with others regardless of where they come from, their beliefs, or their age (which you seem to have an issue with).

 

You really should let this go--the more you post, the more you show your biases.

 

There is no bias from me. I know Japanese well. I have driven 1000's around in tourist coaches at Ayers Rock Resort with their own guide and I know for them things need to be structured and organised with set times. They even have some travel law that entitles them to refunds if schedules are not met.

 

In my experience cruising with Diamond Princess in Japan since 2014, I seriously believe that they can accommodate all types of dining including anytime. Putting anytime in the "too hard basket" is nothing more than incompetence and laziness. For those who want traditional dining which is normally in the International Dining room then all well and good. They can have it. There are four other main dining rooms on the Diamond Princess, surely it would not be too hard for them to allocate one of them to anytime dining like they seemed to succeed with doing for Club Class! The fact that Club Class operates on that ship whilst in Japan proves that anytime dining can be accommodated.

 

Although I will not judge the whole cruise experience based on "dining", for me the forced traditional dining does not work. It is too chaotic, a shambles and total mess. As I have continually tried to say there are people who do not like it and they will have their name allocated to a table for the entire cruise and like it or not if they go and eat in the buffet every night then those seats in the main dining room will remain empty. I like the social aspect of anytime dining, particularly when the table is full. I do not envision a table for two solos on a table for 8 with all other seats empty as a good way of managing the dining situation. Particularly when there is a 50 year gap between ages and absolutely nothing in common.

 

Lets face it and be realistic, not all people are going to like all people and some people have personalities that are just incompatible with others. There is nothing wrong with it, it is just a part of life. Unfortunately if you draw the short straw and get allocated a dining seat next to someone you are not compatible with and they are the only one turning up to dinner on a table for 8 with one other person (namely myself) traveling solo then it is not a good experience at all.

[Brisbane41]

We just spent 32 days on the Diamond and I feel that Princess did an excellent job in accommodating both the English and Japanese speaking cruisers.

 

I would tend to agree on all points except for dining. In regards to dining I would give them a fail. The reason I keep going back on Diamond Princess each year when it is based in Japan is because the whole cruise experience is just so much better than anywhere else in the world.

 

Apart from that the dining is a dismal failure, but that is not important because evening dining for me only represents like 5% of the things you can do in a day so it is not that bad at all. But yes their management of the dining situation is a total failure and all passengers I spoke to agree on that.

[billco]

Over the years we have made several good friends on Princess cruises, some we continue to book cruises with and sail together. That being said, we have had so many negative experiences at sharing a table with others in anytime or being assigned a table with others in traditional that we prefer a table for two anytime that option is available when we aren't sailing with friends. I don't know why the big deal about dinner, since lunch and breakfast are pretty much anytime. I don't think any of the continuing friends were met at dinner, usually on small private tours or other venues like the bars.

[Bill B]

Every time I see the title of this thread, I have a visual image of pax in the dining room 'strapped in' with tubes down their throats.

[Brisbane41]

Over the years we have made several good friends on Princess cruises, some we continue to book cruises with and sail together. That being said, we have had so many negative experiences at sharing a table with others in anytime or being assigned a table with others in traditional that we prefer a table for two anytime that option is available when we aren't sailing with friends. I don't know why the big deal about dinner, since lunch and breakfast are pretty much anytime. I don't think any of the continuing friends were met at dinner, usually on small private tours or other venues like the bars.

 

That is exactly correct and my point entirely. Anytime dining and open seating worked well for breakfast and lunch and also the ship was in port for three late night visits. On these nights it was open seating and they filled tables as people turned up. It worked so well that everyone commented how refreshing it was to have dinner at a full table and it was much more friendly and progressive to meet new people.

 

I am hoping I can get them to change their policy as I have already booked for next year.

[NSWP]

Every time I see the title of this thread, I have a visual image of pax in the dining room 'strapped in' with tubes down their throats.

 

With the MDR Traditional Dining Police, standing guard with M16's making sure the pax don't get out of their seats.:evilsmile: So now we have another Squad in the Princess Security Branch, the MDRTDP,:p

[Aulanis]

I am going to rake up this old thread as it is still relevant today.

At least I have the reason why - Its in deference to Japanese preferences?

We have just booked a Japan cruise and were taken aback that there was no ATD.

We didnt mind that too much, though, we will miss meeting new people every night.  

What I really object to is that 6 months out  we cannot choose the early sitting either!

That is a double whammy for us and  we are hoping that we can persuade the Maitre-di

to change us over we have done that before but not sure if it was on Princess

Anyone had experience of that recently.  Are they again deferring to Japanese time of eating?

in which case  changing seems unlikely.

There appears to be cabins available in all areas so it hard to believe that the early sittings in all

dining rooms are taken. 

Is there another system such as asking Princess before we get to the cruise if there are any cancellations  (we are not at final payment date) yet can we be changed to early sitting?

Or plan 2  can one simply go at 17.40 and ask if there are any no show seats we can occupy?

Otherwise we will be in the Horizon.