Chair Hogs and a "10" For the Crew - Did I Hit A Nerve?

[lvz2cruz]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't want the person loading dishes 7 days, 10-12 hrs a day in a hot kitchen to suffer just so I can make a clearer point to management about an entirely different service issue. Unless the grats you took away from Mr. dish loader & Mr. food prep guy are docked out of management salaries and bonuses so they suffer equally, (yea, right!) it's the little guy, as usual, that pays for mistakes of those at the top.

 

Trust, me I do understand your frustration here:

- But are you 100% sure that management really cares if a few more grats are removed?

- Is their bonus, annual review or another performance metric directly tied to gratuity rates?

- Their workers are on long term contracts in the middle of the ocean - they can't quit and walk out in protest.

 

Managers only prioritize what they're measured against. If they take a "wait and see" attitude for a few weeks or months vs reacting quickly, that's a lot of lost wages for people who didn't deserve it and can least afford it.

 

There's usually more than one way to solve a problem - it just takes a little creative thinking & the will to try. I believe most of us here are smart enough to find a different way to get the point across without resorting to this.

 

Imagine if you were that kitchen person - would you still agree with this tactic?

If you've read other threads, he removes gratuities. He's fishing for a way to justify his selfishness.

[lvz2cruz]

We've had a few cabin attendants ask us how they might earn a 10 from us. They are dealing with passengers from various cultures, with various needs. I don't see anything wrong with that question. I also think the call to ask if you were enjoying the cruise was your chance to get your needs met. I wonder if an attentive employee heard you talking about your rating system and asked guest services to call you.

 

We are not particular about where we sit on the pool deck. Our preference is anywhere in the Solarium. On the rare occasion when there aren't any vacant loungers, we go for a drink or a snack and return to look again. I've seen pool attendants clear off the used towels left behind by slobs and the library books and flip flops that are reserving loungers, all without being asked. When I notice this, I fill out a comment card and mention the pool attendant on the survey. A previous poster suggested a tip, which isn't a bad idea, but I prefer to tip after receiving service, so it doesn't appear to be a bribe.

Maybe if people tipped pool attendants as they cleared chairs, this problem would go away. Many of the towels are left by people who don't take their towel to the bins when they leave.

[lvz2cruz]

You bring up a good point here. But why should any guest pay a surcharge for a dishwasher? Why should the kitchen staff be part of the daily service charge? In fact they should not. Would you give a plumber extra money for the warehouse yard manger who loaded the pipe on the truck? No you would pay the plumber and it is on him to settle his bills.

 

We (guest) do not make the rules. We must live within them and use the rules as need to get what is required. It has nothing to do with fair it has everything to do with results. Here is the policy

 

For your convenience, we automatically add gratuities for your restaurant and stateroom services to your onboard SeaPass® account on a daily basis in the following amounts, which may be adjusted at your discretion:

This gratuity is shared by your stateroom attendant, dining services staff, and housekeeping staff members who help enhance your vacation experience. At your discretion, the gratuity payments may be adjusted onboard at Guest Relations, in which case they will not automatically be added to your onboard SeaPass® account.

 

Since the line has made the choice to combine and charge in one fee we have no choice. We gust are not the bad guy for removing the cruise line is for putting this payment plan in place.

When you book you know the policy. If you can't abide by it, don't cruise.

And yes you are the bad guy.

[ORV]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't want the person loading dishes 7 days, 10-12 hrs a day in a hot kitchen to suffer just so I can make a clearer point to management about an entirely different service issue. Unless the grats you took away from Mr. dish loader & Mr. food prep guy are docked out of management salaries and bonuses so they suffer equally, (yea, right!) it's the little guy, as usual, that pays for mistakes of those at the top.

 

Trust, me I do understand your frustration here:

- But are you 100% sure that management really cares if a few more grats are removed?

- Is their bonus, annual review or another performance metric directly tied to gratuity rates?

- Their workers are on long term contracts in the middle of the ocean - they can't quit and walk out in protest.

 

Managers only prioritize what they're measured against. If they take a "wait and see" attitude for a few weeks or months vs reacting quickly, that's a lot of lost wages for people who didn't deserve it and can least afford it.

 

There's usually more than one way to solve a problem - it just takes a little creative thinking & the will to try. I believe most of us here are smart enough to find a different way to get the point across without resorting to this.

 

Imagine if you were that kitchen person - would you still agree with this tactic?

 

Now there you go, trying to confuse people with common sense.

 

I think another poster hit the nail on the head. The person you quoted is simply looking for additional justification for removing tips, as he doesn't agree with the system. Perhaps he should move on to cruise lines like Silversea or Regent and see how well he likes having it rolled into the upfront charge. LOL

[DYKWIA]

Now there you go, trying to confuse people with common sense.

 

I think another poster hit the nail on the head. The person you quoted is simply looking for additional justification for removing tips, as he doesn't agree with the system. Perhaps he should move on to cruise lines like Silversea or Regent and see how well he likes having it rolled into the upfront charge. LOL

 

I believe the OP is on their way to Cunard

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2619121

[barneyboy]

On Constellation last September the pool staff were placing cards on reserved loungers in the Solarium. If they were still unoccupied after 30 minutes the belongings were removed.

 

 

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[ORV]

I believe the OP is on their way to Cunard

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2619121

 

Yes that's the OP of this thread, not the one I was referring to. It is the Expat that is encouraging removing tips as a way to make a point to management.

 

By all means lets punish the front line workers for having to follow the policies of management to keep their jobs. :rolleyes:

[DYKWIA]

Yes that's the OP of this thread, not the one I was referring to. It is the Expat that is encouraging removing tips as a way to make a point to management.

 

By all means lets punish the front line workers for having to follow the policies of management to keep their jobs. :rolleyes:

 

I suspect removing gratuities from staff will have little or no impact on the Cruise line; They have their money.

 

If you want to make a principled point - email / tweet them and tell them you disagree with their tipping policy, quote your captain's club reference (So they know who you and how much business they get from you). tell them you are not booking with them again, why and then take your business elsewhere. If enough people do that things might change - just don't expect prices to come down!

 

I believe in Australia some cruise lines include all service charges now and in the UK Celebrity doesn't make a service charge for on board purchases (prices are adjusted to include it)

[happicruzer]

I've seen pool attendants clear off the used towels left behind by slobs and the library books and flip flops that are reserving loungers, all without being asked. When I notice this, I fill out a comment card and mention the pool attendant on the survey.

 

A perfect solution to the problem. Enough pluses might even get attention over the complaints that have gone ignored for years.

 

We don’t need the sun or pools as we live in Florida. Book the balcony to avoid the noise although if in sun, will then try to find a lounger in the shade.

 

Will follow through with a comment card when I notice towels and stuff being removed.

[Flafun888]

Moving away from tipping and back to chair hogging for a sec, I absolutely believe change happens by taking time to call, email or post socially if this matter is important to so many people, which it seems to be. The proof?

 

Anyone remember last year when X tried to change departure time on last morning, (from 8am to 7am)? They said they needed people out earlier to get cabins cleaned in time for new pax, even though no other line seemed to have this problem.

 

Many pax were upset. I wasn't thrilled with it myself, as a 7am departure means a 5:30 or 6am wakeup call. I, along with many others called, emailed or posted on their FB site. A couple of weeks later, they rolled back the policy. People here made the difference!

 

This pool chair thing can also be solved the same way at virtually no cost to X: just tiny paper signs on chairs, as many posters already mentioned is happening on some ships. A few people ignore rules, but most comply when they see a printed policy. Or at least, tend to argue less when caught. :) Even 40 or 50% improvement would be a huge difference.

[jkgourmet]

I believe the OP is on their way to Cunard

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2619121

 

He also said Viking.

 

Thanks for your review. You summed up why we are moving our cruise dollars to Viking next year. No feral children on-board, and the lower music and entertainment volumes both are a big plus. We are tired of using earplugs in production shows or in any music venue.

 

I don't like kids. I admit that up front. But the "feral kids" remark in both of the OP posts kinda offends even ME.

 

Bon Voyage.

[DYKWIA]

Moving away from tipping and back to chair hogging for a sec, I absolutely believe change happens by taking time to call, email or post socially if this matter is important to so many people, which it seems to be. The proof?

 

Anyone remember last year when X tried to change departure time on last morning, (from 8am to 7am)? They said they needed people out earlier to get cabins cleaned in time for new pax, even though no other line seemed to have this problem.

 

Many pax were upset. I wasn't thrilled with it myself, as a 7am departure means a 5:30 or 6am wakeup call. I, along with many others called, emailed or posted on their FB site. A couple of weeks later, they rolled back the policy. People here made the difference!

 

This pool chair thing can also be solved the same way at virtually no cost to X: just tiny paper signs on chairs, as many posters already mentioned is happening on some ships. A few people ignore rules, but most comply when they see a printed policy. Or at least, tend to argue less when caught. :) Even 40 or 50% improvement would be a huge difference.

 

Similar thing when they tried to introduce Gourmet Burgers / fake Kobe Burgers on the Constellation (at a significant premium) doing away with the free burgers. That didn't last long and I believe there was a lot of negative feedback

[southernbreezes]

Every cruise every resort we go to it is the same thing with people reserving chairs so it's not just Celebrity. The only thing I have seen that helps is when you are required to sign out for your towels every day and return them every day or you are billed for the cost of the towel. They will not be left lying around is this what you want? I am not sure I want to go back to doing this.

[bEwAbG]

Every cruise every resort we go to it is the same thing with people reserving chairs so it's not just Celebrity. The only thing I have seen that helps is when you are required to sign out for your towels every day and return them every day or you are billed for the cost of the towel. They will not be left lying around is this what you want? I am not sure I want to go back to doing this.

 

I think signing out towels would open up more chairs, for sure. Many people are too lazy or they otherwise aren't thinking about it. Even if pool butlers are marking chairs, it means that the chair sits empty for 30 minutes longer than it should.

 

Sometimes, the towels people see first thing in the morning are actually put out by the pool butlers and many assume that the chairs are being reserved when it's really just a presentation thing. This would also stop that practice.

[DYKWIA]

I think signing out towels would open up more chairs, for sure. Many people are too lazy or they otherwise aren't thinking about it. Even if pool butlers are marking chairs, it means that the chair sits empty for 30 minutes longer than it should.

 

Sometimes, the towels people see first thing in the morning are actually put out by the pool butlers and many assume that the chairs are being reserved when it's really just a presentation thing. This would also stop that practice.

 

 

Signing towels is not Luxury / Modern Luxury - you go to a decent hotel they don't ask you to sign for towels. Pool staff just need to do their job. In the theatre I've heard them say you cant reserve several seats, it would easy to enforce with staff - you can set a chair up for you the occupants of your cabin alone - none of this 8 chairs nonsense. Staff "enforcing" rules need to be able to do so without fear that negative comments will impact on their career.

[bEwAbG]

Signing towels is not Luxury / Modern Luxury - you go to a decent hotel they don't ask you to sign for towels. Pool staff just need to do their job. In the theatre I've heard them say you cant reserve several seats, it would easy to enforce with staff - you can set a chair up for you the occupants of your cabin alone - none of this 8 chairs nonsense. Staff "enforcing" rules need to be able to do so without fear that negative comments will impact on their career.

 

"Modern Luxury" is a marketing term so I'm not sure why that's even part of the equation. Celebrity is not close to a luxury product. And hate to break it to you, but I've been at plenty of luxury hotels that do make you sign for pool towels because they have the same problem as any other resort.

 

Even if pool staff were "doing their job," the left-behind towels would still be on the chairs for 30 minutes longer than necessary because they'd have to post the notice first. It would be impossible for them to police all the various schemes that are employed, but making people sign for towels would also make people return those towels when they were done with them.

 

And if you don't think the chair hoggers don't try to do the same thing in the theater, then you haven't been paying attention.

[Lady Chew]

I think signing out towels would open up more chairs, for sure. Many people are too lazy or they otherwise aren't thinking about it. Even if pool butlers are marking chairs, it means that the chair sits empty for 30 minutes longer than it should.

 

Sometimes, the towels people see first thing in the morning are actually put out by the pool butlers and many assume that the chairs are being reserved when it's really just a presentation thing. This would also stop that practice.

 

We have seen this fairly frequently, but usually these towels are neatly folded over the top of the lounger, not spread out in any way ... those loungers are still available.

[DYKWIA]

"Modern Luxury" is a marketing term so I'm not sure why that's even part of the equation. Celebrity is not close to a luxury product. And hate to break it to you, but I've been at plenty of luxury hotels that do make you sign for pool towels because they have the same problem as any other resort.

 

Even if pool staff were "doing their job," the left-behind towels would still be on the chairs for 30 minutes longer than necessary because they'd have to post the notice first. It would be impossible for them to police all the various schemes that are employed, but making people sign for towels would also make people return those towels when they were done with them.

 

And if you don't think the chair hoggers don't try to do the same thing in the theater, then you haven't been paying attention.

 

Celebrity use the term Modern Luxury - I don't. But if they are going to use it, I don't see why I shouldn't try and hold them to it. This is there problem for them to solve - signing for towels is tacky IMHO. Little things like signing for towels all the time (like replacing wet towels) or lying on those awful plastic strapped sunloungers just put us off as much as Belly Flop competitions.

 

"Hate to break it to you" if you are signing for towels or even putting your own towels out on the sun lounger you ain't in a true Luxury Hotel! I realise on a busy cruise ship you can't expect that level of service and but I personally would challenge that practice in a true luxury hotel. I don't steal towels and I'm not sure why I should have to sign them out. We always return our towels to indicate when we've finished with sun lounger. I liken it to the coat hangers - a decent hotel won't worry about you taking them by using the dreadful security coat hangers they will give you decent coat hangers (they've even packed our luggage with them). Nor are they worried about you taking the toiletries they give you top end luxury branded toiletries and you can have as much as you like. They are charging enough to cover trivial matters like that. Can't recall when I last signed for a towel at a hotel in Asia, Middle East or Africa. Last time I think I signed for a towel I think was at Wynn in Las Vegas but that place is pretty awful and far from a luxury hotel experience.

Edited April 3, 2018 by DYKWIA

[twentyknots]

I simply walk around & check the loungers. If none appear to have an "active" occupant, I then survey the area & count those in the pool & the # of "reserved" loungers. At that point I just clear off 2 for me & my spouse. Those that have those crappy "reserved" clamps will get removed first. When the few who have been confrontational show up(normally about an hour or more later), I simply say where is your name sewn into this lounger? I then say, "Well, how long have you been gone?" I then tell them to go file a formal complaint with the head office. In the theater, we'll move in on any area of seats with more than 3 reserved, if we can't find a good seat. If you're unwilling to take charge, then oh well!

I love how on Oceania there are clearly marked signs saying that loungers not "actively" being used will have all items removed and "freed" up for others to use in 30 min. time. It was refreshing to see staff actually doing it. Another reason we booked them again for next year.

 

My approach is similar. When I see chairs "reserved" with towels, shoes, books, etc I make note of the time and location of each that interests me. I then find an attendant and let him or her know the chairs in which I'm interested and that the clock has started and I will be back in 45 minutes. In the meantime I sit wherever I can find a vacant chair. When time is up I return to the attendant and insist the rules be followed. Usually some of the targeted chairs are still unoccupied. When the party returns and questions why I'm in the chair I say the attendant took your stuff.

[DYKWIA]

My approach is similar. When I see chairs "reserved" with towels, shoes, books, etc I make note of the time and location of each that interests me. I then find an attendant and let him or her know the chairs in which I'm interested and that the clock has started and I will be back in 45 minutes. In the meantime I sit wherever I can find a vacant chair. When time is up I return to the attendant and insist the rules be followed. Usually some of the targeted chairs are still unoccupied. When the party returns and questions why I'm in the chair I say the attendant took your stuff.

 

Not fool proof unless you keep them the chairs under surveillance. You make your notes, person returns 5 minutes after you've gone away, 1 min before your 45 min time limit - person wanders off to the bar. They come back and you're trying to have them evicted - not exactly fair.

[DavietheScot]

Some people seriously need to get a life !!!! You do know in the real world these " problems " ans so called " solutions " are laughable.

 

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[Marelaine]

Maybe if people tipped pool attendants as they cleared chairs, this problem would go away. Many of the towels are left by people who don't take their towel to the bins when they leave.

 

I think I will try that on our next cruise :):)

[Literacy Lady]

Infinity...and we have never experienced solicitations for a 10 so early. Something behind the scenes must be going on.

 

Out cabin attendant and our MDR waiter are getting 10s and a little extra cash. Same with specialty dining venue staff - 10 plus if we could.

 

Other operations are a different story....

 

On port day in Manta, we witnessed zero control for boarding shuttle buses to town, with the result of a mob of at least 200 people waiting for the first bus. Saw a fight breakout at the door of the bus and one guy trying to pull another off the steps of the bus. If Celebrity had organized a line, trouble could have been avoided. Think they deserve a 10?

 

On that same port day, loungers and sunbeds were reserved with towels, big clips, and assorted flip flops and books. Never used until people started filtering back to the ship after excursions. Think the pool staff deserve a 10?

 

If the score of a 10 is their currency...they need to earn it.

 

I was on the Infinity, too, and the Manta shuttle bus mess was down right dangerous.

[Expat Cruise]

If you've read other threads, he removes gratuities. He's fishing for a way to justify his selfishness.

 

Not fishing at all, I have made it very clear I always remove these fake auto changes and then tip the workers directly that I believe should be tipped. It is done within the rules and my choice. But in this case I'm encouraging removing tips as a way to make a point to management, that if they do not follow their own rules their actions have a direct impact on the bottom line.

 

You can post all day here about how bad it is, and management will not care but take away dollars and that will get results. It is 100% within the rules and allowed from the Corporate policy: "At your discretion, the gratuity payments may be adjusted onboard at Guest Relations" Any guest if free to adjust gratuity payments, at their discretion.

[PoppyandNana]

On Constellation last September the pool staff were placing cards on reserved loungers in the Solarium. If they were still unoccupied after 30 minutes the belongings were removed.

 

 

 

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So why on that ship and not other X ships? Is this a captain or hotel manager thing. Most “corporate” SOP’s are religiously adhered to. Those pool stewards who did this did so because they were instructed to do so not because they thought it was a good idea.