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I know it's not RCCI...but a bit of an oops on the MSC Armonia in Roatan today.

LS6Caddy

By LS6Caddy,
in Royal Caribbean International

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Biker19

Biker19

Posted
Posted
If so, and she is still doing 5 knots, there isn't anything, including full reverse power on the azipods, that would stop her in time.

I'd estimate the speed lower than that - seem her going up on a sand bar is what really stopped her forward movement.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
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Obviously can't tell from video or pics, but still wonder about under hull damage. Thinking she may have slid far enough along the pier to mangle a fin stab if equipped....

 

Fin stabilizers are designed to auto retract when the vessel speed is under 6 knots. Also, from pics, I don't see the stabilizer being anywhere near the dock, so even if extended, don't think it would be impacted. As I've said, you can get away with some gnarly hull plating and not have to repair it any time soon, as long as frames are not bent/tripped. If its a soft sand bottom, I would expect some plating distortion but not much if any framing deformation.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
Retracting stabs? Did not know that....it's a brave new world...all my knowledge base is from grey boats. Next you'll tell me they don't run paper charts and Mo boards on the bridge!������

 

You're right, they don't. Maneuvering boards went long ago, and many shipping lines do not use paper charts, or if they do, it is the secondary, or tertiary means of navigation. ECDIS has replaced paper charts for many lines years ago.

 

And, yeah, the stabilizers auto-retract because some Captains forgot to retract them while docking and ripped them off.

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xpcdoojk "Live from...." Rare

xpcdoojk

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I agree with Biker ( nothing new there), that it was going a lot less than 5 knots, but even though it was barely making way forward, it just seems watching it and the reaction of the people that it was obvious it was going to crash.

 

JC

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BillB48

BillB48

Posted
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If so, and she is still doing 5 knots, there isn't anything, including full reverse power on the azipods, that would stop her in time.

 

Have no way of knowing how long they had astern going on the pods, but she had both hooks down and the port hook was under strain.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
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Have no way of knowing how long they had astern going on the pods, but she had both hooks down and the port hook was under strain.

 

I agree with Biker ( nothing new there), that it was going a lot less than 5 knots, but even though it was barely making way forward, it just seems watching it and the reaction of the people that it was obvious it was going to crash.

 

JC

 

100 yards (1/3 of ship length) is not enough to stop any ship with even a knot of way on, if there is no braking. They likely smoked the port windlass brake trying to stop it, I can just picture the bosun madly cranking on the brake handle while the whole momentum of the ship is dragging the chain out of the locker. In the enclosed mooring stations on cruise ships, that got real rusty and dusty and smokey in a hurry.

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BillB48

BillB48

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100 yards (1/3 of ship length) is not enough to stop any ship with even a knot of way on, if there is no braking. They likely smoked the port windlass brake trying to stop it, I can just picture the bosun madly cranking on the brake handle while the whole momentum of the ship is dragging the chain out of the locker. In the enclosed mooring stations on cruise ships, that got real rusty and dusty and smokey in a hurry.

 

I have witnessed a good number of ship allisions such as this in my other life and to back up my speed estimate of the speed I used the seconds on the video from when the bow crossed a light pole until the time the light pole was under the port bridge wing. The diagram of the ship on nautical cites shows the bridge is between 100-125' from the bow. On the video I watched it took very close to 14 seconds from when the bow went by the pole until it was under the bridge wing.

 

From the time the video starts with the ship off the pier, from then until the initial impact was only 27 seconds.

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SailorJeff66

SailorJeff66

Posted
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43 years as a merchant mariner. Only Navy time was a few years as reserve duty. From my avatar, 1975 grad of USMMA.

Rgr. Knew a couple MMA guys in my day. Had an ensign div-o that took a USNR commission after grad and a MMA student as a running mate during his summer cruise.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
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I have witnessed a good number of ship allisions such as this in my other life and to back up my speed estimate of the speed I used the seconds on the video from when the bow crossed a light pole until the time the light pole was under the port bridge wing. The diagram of the ship on nautical cites shows the bridge is between 100-125' from the bow. On the video I watched it took very close to 14 seconds from when the bow went by the pole until it was under the bridge wing.

 

From the time the video starts with the ship off the pier, from then until the initial impact was only 27 seconds.

 

Not doubting your estimate of speed, and I have no way of confirming or denying it, just saying that even with a knot of way on, if the estimate of 100 yards off the pier is accurate, then there was nothing that would prevent this at that point. If she was still going 5 knots at the time of impact, she was doing more than that before, and again, nothing would have stopped it.

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BillB48

BillB48

Posted
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She was losing some speed at the time of impact, going as hard as she did against the pier and running over the walkway to the forward mooring dolphin did a lot of the slowing. I would guess that it took another 150' after first contact with the pier for her to come to rest.

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SeaHunt

SeaHunt

Posted
Posted
We are on LOS and it did effect us. Missed port because of this issue. However had s great sea day but had to detour to Cozumel for medical emergency. Pray that the individual is slright but will be getting to Costa Maya several hours late. At least got to go to Cozumel twice even if the first time we couldn't get off. Hope an MSC boat doesn't get to the port before we make it there!

 

OT in the middle of all these technical discussions again (sorry guys) but I posted the picture of TV's Amy Roloff in #37 above as being on your cruise and wonder if they are taping this cruise for her TV show (Little People Big World). Have you noticed any of that onboard?

 

I don't usually watch that show but would watch that episode just to see what kind of comments are being made onboard about their cruise being turned away at Roatan and now having a medical emergency making you late to Costa Maya...can imagine there are some irate people.

 

I've been on plenty of missed port cruises and seems like there is always at least one belligerant passenger threatening a lawsuit immediately LOL.

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OSUZorba

OSUZorba

Posted
Posted (edited)
Mainly I'm speaking of tunnel thrusters, like the ship has at the bow. People have reported that the thrusters were seen going quite hard, and someone asked whether thrusters couldn't have turned the bow. Azipods are a different story, however, since the propellers are not in tunnels or kort nozzles, the propellers don't lose thrust at high speed (or the ship wouldn't move). Those Navy APU's are thrusters with kort nozzles, which is like a real short tunnel. Kort nozzles around propellers are designed to provide static thrust (like a tug boat pushing against a ship), rather than propulsive power. One advantage of the azipods is that they can be swung so that they are giving both lateral thrust, and reverse thrust to slow the ship. My hypothesis is that the ship was coming in perpendicular to the dock due to channel configuration, it was supposed to stop, then swing 90*, and then ease laterally to the dock. I'm suspecting that the pods were ordered to reverse, which unlike most propellers doesn't turn the propeller the other way, the whole pod rotates so the propeller is now facing aft, but they failed to rotate, so there was no braking force to stop the ship's motion towards the dock.

 

I know you can't see the video. But at the end of the impact video, you can see the wake from Port Pod moving forward, so it would appear that at least the port pod was generating negative thrust.

 

 

Shouldn't the two pods also have fully independent control systems? Making the likelihood of complete failure very remote?

Edited by OSUZorba
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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
I know you can't see the video. But at the end of the impact video, you can see the wake from Port Pod moving forward, so it would appear that at least the port pod was generating negative thrust.

 

 

Shouldn't the two pods also have fully independent control systems? Making the likelihood of complete failure very remote?

 

I think it is interesting that MSC acts like the ship will be underway very soon, it seems like there was likely either a significant mechanical/electrical failure or a significant crew error and I'd think you'd want to fix either before heading out. Which, I guess if it was a straight forward mechanical repair and they had spares they could do it quickly.

 

It depends on the system used. When at sea, the steering of the two pods are tied to the helm, and typically the speed of the propellers are each controlled by an engine telegraph. While docking, there may be two joysticks each controlling the azimuthing and speed of one pod, or there may be one joystick controlling both, and some ships have both types of joystick, depending on how the Captain wants to control the pods. Sometimes it is easier to bring the ship alongside using just one control, so both pods do the exact same thing, while in other circumstances, it is better to have individual control.

 

The ship was cleared by Honduran Port State Control, meaning they inspected and tested whatever may have failed and found it okay, and the ship left Roatan yesterday, and has gone to Belize and is now in Costa Maya.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
I also wondered about a seamanship blunder. From what I understand, their berth assignment was perpendicular to their approach? Rather than spin the ship then back down, were they trying to pivot at the end of their pier?

 

I don't know the channel configuration there, but my thought is that you have to approach perpendicular to the pier at that end of it, stop, then swing the stern around to be parallel, and then move laterally to the pier. I think the problem happened at step two, the "stopping" part. Some have said the conditions were windy, so they may have been carrying some speed on the approach to keep heading with a lateral wind, and when they counted on reversing to stop, it didn't work.

 

Even the august personage, and lifelong boater, of John Kennedy got caught by this in the infamous incident where he was racing another PT boat to the fuel pier in Rendova and his engines failed to go astern.

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BND

BND

Posted
Posted
Has anyone seen an “official report” yet?

 

No, but I did see where it's going to cost MSC $500,000 for repairs to the port. I can't find the story now, but someone posted it on FB.

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