A few recorded facts.

[pisces14]

There are a couple of flies in that ointment

1. When I go to the restaurant around the corner and purchase a fillet steak for my wife and myself it costs just under £60. When I go and have fish and chips for two it costs about £12. Now should I tip about £1.20 on each occasion because the service is about the same and takes the same amount of time? Or should I tip more when I order the fillet steaks because my meal costs more? I believe and do this later. Should not costs therefore come into the tip for my cruise?

2. You mention that the other consideration would be a suite because it has a butler. Now we are booked into a mini-suite and that does not carry the service of a butler, so that is not a consideration, but unless I have been seriously misled a mini-suite has a balcony about twice the size of a cabin and has considerably more internal space than an ordinary cabin, I hope therefore that the cabin steward will not clean twice as fast and cut a few corners, but will in fact have to take more time to clean and order our mini-suite than an ordinary cabin. But PO insist that the basic AG is the same whatever the cabin, now at the very least that is really not fair to the cabin steward or the passengers that have a much smaller and less costly cabin.

We paid £80000 for our world cruise in the cabin we chose, and someone we know paid £17000 for his inside cabin. We had the same food, entertainment etc. Of course it took the cabin steward longer to clean our cabin but why should we pay 4 times as much in gratuities. We had already paid 4 times as much for our cruise.

[grapau27]

We paid £80000 for our world cruise in the cabin we chose, and someone we know paid £17000 for his inside cabin. We had the same food, entertainment etc. Of course it took the cabin steward longer to clean our cabin but why should we pay 4 times as much in gratuities. We had already paid 4 times as much for our cruise.

Very good point.

 

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[AnOnymously]

Very good point.

 

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Basically because you took more of the cabin stewards time. Why should someone who used much less of their cabin stewards time have to pay the same as you who took more. Ofcourse the cruise should pay for all the staff's wages and tips should be at ones discretion depending on service given.

[happytravelleruk]

If tipping was down to how long it took to look after a cabin we want a rebate ;-). We always keep our room tidy. Passing some cabins when the doors are open and seeing the mess some people live in, I always feel sorry for the steward having to clear the clutter before they can clean.

[Selbourne]

We paid £80000 for our world cruise in the cabin we chose, and someone we know paid £17000 for his inside cabin. We had the same food, entertainment etc. Of course it took the cabin steward longer to clean our cabin but why should we pay 4 times as much in gratuities. We had already paid 4 times as much for our cruise.

 

Completely agree. The extra £63,000 that you paid more than covered the extra cleaning costs!

[NoFlyGuy]

All goes to show what a minefield tipping is. Just pay your staff, quote a price and get rid of tipping as a culture.

[AnOnymously]

All goes to show what a minefield tipping is. Just pay your staff, quote a price and get rid of tipping as a culture.

Quite agree.

 

But if I had paid £80000 for a cruise I would believe that I was sufficiently privileged that I would not worry that I gladly paid a little more, though where the 4x came from, not my suggestion, I do not know, to staff as a thanks, when the only cruise they could go on would be one they worked on.

 

No wonder people on here think those who remove AG's are cheapskates.

[mercury7289]

The reason I put the recorded facts as a thread was to invoke some discussion on what constitutes a fair wage in business terms.

 

Taking into account that the average wage shown, makes no deduction for rent and food.

 

The recently deleted thread made some reference to the pay structure at the starter level, which if I recollect correctly could equal at least 4 times average wage.

 

There were some posts on the deleted thread lambasting P&O for what they considered exploitation.

 

I find that surprising.

[kalos]

All goes to show what a minefield tipping is. Just pay your staff, quote a price and get rid of tipping as a culture.

 

A minefield is a good description or maybe a pot of gold dependant on if you are the customer or the company running the service charge rules.

 

I was reading about a woman who with her child fell foul of a USA land based tipping policy.

She went in a diner ordered her and the child's drinks and later paid the bill which she gave a discretional tip

(just like P&O say you can do) for her and the child included to their server.

Only to find the owner had put a mandatory tip on for children ,which the server said nothing about .

Leaving her to pay a double tip for the child .

https://uk.style.yahoo.com/restaurant-making-children-pay-compulsory-tip-parents-divided-130138333.html

 

I was also thinking about the post that never was :rolleyes:

 

The person said if he scored "excellent", he got 100% of the service charge

 

However a score of "good" he only got 75% of the service charge .

 

 

If P&O get an overall score of just 75%( Good ) on how much you liked the cruise you were on ,could we

have a 25% refund off the total price of the total we paid when first booking the cruise .;p:D

[AnOnymously]

The reason I put the recorded facts as a thread was to invoke some discussion on what constitutes a fair wage in business terms.

 

Taking into account that the average wage shown, makes no deduction for rent and food.

 

The recently deleted thread made some reference to the pay structure at the starter level, which if I recollect correctly could equal at least 4 times average wage.

 

There were some posts on the deleted thread lambasting P&O for what they considered exploitation.

 

I find that surprising.

If you were a diplomat and sent to say Philippines with a very low average wage, would you expect your UK salary or the equivalent Filipino salary?

 

Should people be paid in the 'style' of those the person is working for or paid the equivalent of home?

[mercury7289]

Anonymously

 

What?:o

[GirlyCruiser]

As one or two others on here have previously said, at the end of the day, how and what we tip is personal choice. Despite all the discussion (which I do find interesting) we will all go about it in our own way whether that will be sticking with the AG right through to not tipping at all. I have to say reading these posts has made me think about how I will tip in July. I’ve got a plan A and a plan B, (FYI neither of them involves not tipping at all as a minority sometimes suggests on here) just got to decide on which way to do it.

Sam.

[kruzseeka]

As one or two others on here have previously said, at the end of the day, how and what we tip is personal choice. Despite all the discussion (which I do find interesting) we will all go about it in our own way whether that will be sticking with the AG right through to not tipping at all. I have to say reading these posts has made me think about how I will tip in July. I’ve got a plan A and a plan B, (FYI neither of them involves not tipping at all as a minority sometimes suggests on here) just got to decide on which way to do it.

Sam.

 

 

I agree - it's made very interesting reading and been quite a talking point between us and our friends. As you say people will come to their own decisions - some will continue to do as they have always done but there has been a lot of food for thought recently. I do think I have a better insight now although some may question whether we are any the wiser but I feel I am and we will definitely weigh all that up in making our decision in the future.

[GirlyCruiser]

I agree - it's made very interesting reading and been quite a talking point between us and our friends. As you say people will come to their own decisions - some will continue to do as they have always done but there has been a lot of food for thought recently. I do think I have a better insight now although some may question whether we are any the wiser but I feel I am and we will definitely weigh all that up in making our decision in the future.

 

And I agree with you, it’s definitely given me an insight into tipping. My other half’s parents have just sailed on Arcadia yesterday and I’m very tempted to ask them how they tipped when they get back as they are doing freedom dining like we will be. Tipping is one of those subjects that will always pop up again and I will continue to be interested in everyone’s views.

Sam.

[pisces14]

Quite agree.

 

But if I had paid £80000 for a cruise I would believe that I was sufficiently privileged that I would not worry that I gladly paid a little more, though where the 4x came from, not my suggestion, I do not know, to staff as a thanks, when the only cruise they could go on would be one they worked on.

 

No wonder people on here think those who remove AG's are cheapskates.

 

For your information we HAVE always gladly paid the recommended gratuities and have also given extra to the waiting staff, cabin steward, butler and others. As I've already said those who book suites already pay a lot more than someone on an inside for the same service, food, entertainment etc. apart from a butler. Perhaps you should save your unwarranted for comment for those who think once they have paid for their cruise they shouldn't be expected to tip the staff for whatever reason they can think up.

[grapau27]

For your information we HAVE always gladly paid the recommended gratuities and have also given extra to the waiting staff, cabin steward, butler and others. As I've already said those who book suites already pay a lot more than someone on an inside for the same service, food, entertainment etc. apart from a butler. Perhaps you should save your unwarranted for comment for those who think once they have paid for their cruise they shouldn't be expected to tip the staff for whatever reason they can think up.

Well said.

We pay over and above tips too and more than pay our share and its not good that so many can get away with paying no tips whatsoever.

 

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[AnOnymously]

For your information we HAVE always gladly paid the recommended gratuities and have also given extra to the waiting staff, cabin steward, butler and others. As I've already said those who book suites already pay a lot more than someone on an inside for the same service, food, entertainment etc. apart from a butler. Perhaps you should save your unwarranted for comment for those who think once they have paid for their cruise they shouldn't be expected to tip the staff for whatever reason they can think up.

Have I ever suggested that people should not pay tips?

But when you have more luxury, you should pay more in tips for that luxury. Many lines operate that policy and seems fair to me.

But tips should be just that, a tip for good service and ALL cruiselines should be charging what they need to do to pay staff and adequate wage (and that is also a point of dispute but without large added AG's we would not know what the pay is) and then customers can add a discretionary amount.

 

But it can be argued, and is, by those who do not pay AG or tip, that they have contributed enough by paying the fare ask ed, especially when they have paid for say a suite. Whoops that's why you did not want to pay more in AG than those in cheaper cabins.

[Selbourne]

I really dislike the tendency of many British people to make snide remarks about people with wealth. It smacks of jealousy to me, which is a disease for which there is no cure.

 

Personally, I could not afford to spend £80,000 on a cruise and even if I did have that sort of money going spare I wouldn’t spend that on a cruise. No Cruise would ever be worth that sort of expenditure to me. However, I would never begrudge anyone who does have that sort of money to splash on a cruise. Good luck to them. I suspect that they have worked damned hard for it or are spending their inheritance on something that they have always dreamed of, such as doing a World Cruise in luxury.

 

As this thread is about facts, let me offer a couple more. Cabin stewards with Suites tend to look after slightly fewer cabins to compensate for the extra time they take to service. Their pay and reward structure does not penalise them for this. When a suite passenger is paying £80k for exactly the same cruise as an inside passenger paying £17k for an inside cabin, it is patently obvious that they are being charged for any additional servicing time so I think it’s good that P&O doesn’t seek to exploit them further, as some cruise lines do, by charging them more as a service charge.

 

Secondly, as with many things in life, whether it be holidays or products, prices charged for the very top end products often carry a price premium that is over and above the true additional cost to the supplier and this is done to help subsidise the ‘entry’ level price so that the headline prices are competitive. In the case of the example being discussed, even though a suite takes up more space, there is no way that the actual cost to P&O is £63k more than for a couple doing exactly the same Cruise in an inside cabin. It’s exactly the same food, same entertainment, same itinerary, access to the same ships facilities, same fuel cost etc etc.

 

I would therefore suggest that, if anything, suite passengers are far more likely to be slightly subsidising the headline price promoted for inside cabins than the other way around and therefore the snide remarks are particularly unwarranted.

[blueboo]

I really dislike the tendency of many British people to make snide remarks about people with wealth. It smacks of jealousy to me, which is a disease for which there is no cure.

 

Personally, I could not afford to spend £80,000 on a cruise and even if I did have that sort of money going spare I wouldn’t spend that on a cruise. No Cruise would ever be worth that sort of expenditure to me. However, I would never begrudge anyone who does have that sort of money to splash on a cruise. Good luck to them. I suspect that they have worked damned hard for it or are spending their inheritance on something that they have always dreamed of, such as doing a World Cruise in luxury.

 

As this thread is about facts, let me offer a couple more. Cabin stewards with Suites tend to look after slightly fewer cabins to compensate for the extra time they take to service. Their pay and reward structure does not penalise them for this. When a suite passenger is paying £80k for exactly the same cruise as an inside passenger paying £17k for an inside cabin, it is patently obvious that they are being charged for any additional servicing time so I think it’s good that P&O doesn’t seek to exploit them further, as some cruise lines do, by charging them more as a service charge.

 

Secondly, as with many things in life, whether it be holidays or products, prices charged for the very top end products often carry a price premium that is over and above the true additional cost to the supplier and this is done to help subsidise the ‘entry’ level price so that the headline prices are competitive. In the case of the example being discussed, even though a suite takes up more space, there is no way that the actual cost to P&O is £63k more than for a couple doing exactly the same Cruise in an inside cabin. It’s exactly the same food, same entertainment, same itinerary, access to the same ships facilities, same fuel cost etc etc.

 

I would therefore suggest that, if anything, suite passengers are far more likely to be slightly subsidising the headline price promoted for inside cabins than the other way around and therefore the snide remarks are particularly unwarranted.

 

 

Very well put....if I had that kind of money for cruising though, I think I would be minded to sail with Seabourn or Regent or some such luxury line. I love P and O and for my budget they are great but I don't think they are worth £80,000 !

[grapau27]

I really dislike the tendency of many British people to make snide remarks about people with wealth. It smacks of jealousy to me, which is a disease for which there is no cure.

 

Personally, I could not afford to spend £80,000 on a cruise and even if I did have that sort of money going spare I wouldn’t spend that on a cruise. No Cruise would ever be worth that sort of expenditure to me. However, I would never begrudge anyone who does have that sort of money to splash on a cruise. Good luck to them. I suspect that they have worked damned hard for it or are spending their inheritance on something that they have always dreamed of, such as doing a World Cruise in luxury.

 

As this thread is about facts, let me offer a couple more. Cabin stewards with Suites tend to look after slightly fewer cabins to compensate for the extra time they take to service. Their pay and reward structure does not penalise them for this. When a suite passenger is paying £80k for exactly the same cruise as an inside passenger paying £17k for an inside cabin, it is patently obvious that they are being charged for any additional servicing time so I think it’s good that P&O doesn’t seek to exploit them further, as some cruise lines do, by charging them more as a service charge.

 

Secondly, as with many things in life, whether it be holidays or products, prices charged for the very top end products often carry a price premium that is over and above the true additional cost to the supplier and this is done to help subsidise the ‘entry’ level price so that the headline prices are competitive. In the case of the example being discussed, even though a suite takes up more space, there is no way that the actual cost to P&O is £63k more than for a couple doing exactly the same Cruise in an inside cabin. It’s exactly the same food, same entertainment, same itinerary, access to the same ships facilities, same fuel cost etc etc.

 

I would therefore suggest that, if anything, suite passengers are far more likely to be slightly subsidising the headline price promoted for inside cabins than the other way around and therefore the snide remarks are particularly unwarranted.

Wow i absolutely agree with you.

I feel the same way about everything you have posted.

An excellent post.

 

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[pisces14]

I really dislike the tendency of many British people to make snide remarks about people with wealth. It smacks of jealousy to me, which is a disease for which there is no cure.

 

Personally, I could not afford to spend £80,000 on a cruise and even if I did have that sort of money going spare I wouldn’t spend that on a cruise. No Cruise would ever be worth that sort of expenditure to me. However, I would never begrudge anyone who does have that sort of money to splash on a cruise. Good luck to them. I suspect that they have worked damned hard for it or are spending their inheritance on something that they have always dreamed of, such as doing a World Cruise in luxury.

 

As this thread is about facts, let me offer a couple more. Cabin stewards with Suites tend to look after slightly fewer cabins to compensate for the extra time they take to service. Their pay and reward structure does not penalise them for this. When a suite passenger is paying £80k for exactly the same cruise as an inside passenger paying £17k for an inside cabin, it is patently obvious that they are being charged for any additional servicing time so I think it’s good that P&O doesn’t seek to exploit them further, as some cruise lines do, by charging them more as a service charge.

 

Secondly, as with many things in life, whether it be holidays or products, prices charged for the very top end products often carry a price premium that is over and above the true additional cost to the supplier and this is done to help subsidise the ‘entry’ level price so that the headline prices are competitive. In the case of the example being discussed, even though a suite takes up more space, there is no way that the actual cost to P&O is £63k more than for a couple doing exactly the same Cruise in an inside cabin. It’s exactly the same food, same entertainment, same itinerary, access to the same ships facilities, same fuel cost etc etc.

 

I would therefore suggest that, if anything, suite passengers are far more likely to be slightly subsidising the headline price promoted for inside cabins than the other way around and therefore the snide remarks are particularly unwarranted.

 

Thank you for your post. I really appreciate it. I really wish I hadn't mentioned the cost of our cruise now. I did so because I wanted to point out the difference in the cost of our cruise compared to our friend. He had everything that we enjoyed apart from a larger cabin and the services of a butler. As you've pointed out we more than paid for that privilege. You're correct we weren't born with silver spoons in our mouths we've worked hard and made sacrifices in our lives to achieve what we have. It was a world cruise and something I'd always dreamed of doing.

[pisces14]

Very well put....if I had that kind of money for cruising though, I think I would be minded to sail with Seabourn or Regent or some such luxury line. I love P and O and for my budget they are great but I don't think they are worth £80,000 !

£80,000 for a world cruise is very reasonable. The reason we cruise with P&O is for their excellent itineraries to and from Southampton. The 6* lines are usually fly cruises and we no longer enjoy the hassle of airports or flying in general.

[grapau27]

Thank you for your post. I really appreciate it. I really wish I hadn't mentioned the cost of our cruise now. I did so because I wanted to point out the difference in the cost of our cruise compared to our friend. He had everything that we enjoyed apart from a larger cabin and the services of a butler. As you've pointed out we more than paid for that privilege. You're correct we weren't born with silver spoons in our mouths we've worked hard and made sacrifices in our lives to achieve what we have. It was a world cruise and something I'd always dreamed of doing.

You deserved your world cruise for working hard and no one has any right to say otherwise.

You make a very valid point though that everything on board ie food, entertainment etc is available to everyone and you certainly paid P&O handsomely for your cruise so you shouldn't be expected to pay more gratuitys.

I hope you had a fantastic time.

Graham.

 

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[pisces14]

You deserved your world cruise for working hard and no one has any right to say otherwise.

You make a very valid point though that everything on board ie food, entertainment etc is available to everyone and you certainly paid P&O handsomely for your cruise so you shouldn't be expected to pay more gratuitys.

I hope you had a fantastic time.

Graham.

 

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Thank you Graham. We did have a fantastic time and have made plenty of memories that will stay with us forever.

[AnOnymously]

I really dislike the tendency of many British people to make snide remarks about people with wealth. It smacks of jealousy to me, which is a disease for which there is no cure.

 

Personally, I could not afford to spend £80,000 on a cruise and even if I did have that sort of money going spare I wouldn’t spend that on a cruise. No Cruise would ever be worth that sort of expenditure to me. However, I would never begrudge anyone who does have that sort of money to splash on a cruise. Good luck to them. I suspect that they have worked damned hard for it or are spending their inheritance on something that they have always dreamed of, such as doing a World Cruise in luxury.

 

As this thread is about facts, let me offer a couple more. Cabin stewards with Suites tend to look after slightly fewer cabins to compensate for the extra time they take to service. Their pay and reward structure does not penalise them for this. When a suite passenger is paying £80k for exactly the same cruise as an inside passenger paying £17k for an inside cabin, it is patently obvious that they are being charged for any additional servicing time so I think it’s good that P&O doesn’t seek to exploit them further, as some cruise lines do, by charging them more as a service charge.

 

Secondly, as with many things in life, whether it be holidays or products, prices charged for the very top end products often carry a price premium that is over and above the true additional cost to the supplier and this is done to help subsidise the ‘entry’ level price so that the headline prices are competitive. In the case of the example being discussed, even though a suite takes up more space, there is no way that the actual cost to P&O is £63k more than for a couple doing exactly the same Cruise in an inside cabin. It’s exactly the same food, same entertainment, same itinerary, access to the same ships facilities, same fuel cost etc etc.

 

I would therefore suggest that, if anything, suite passengers are far more likely to be slightly subsidising the headline price promoted for inside cabins than the other way around and therefore the snide remarks are particularly unwarranted.

Sadly Selbourbe you make some interesting assumptions.

The first is that I might be jealous of 'wealth', but I am not, mainly because you might not be able to afford that sort of cruise, but I chose to spend money that way, I could.

Secondly you have assumed, and I thought this thread and many of the tipping threads thought otherwise, that money paid to PO in cruise fare was more for profit of PO than paying staff well

it is patently obvious that they are being charged for any additional servicing time so I think it’s good that P&O doesn’t seek to exploit them further, as some cruise lines do, by charging them more as a service charge

I would therefore suggest that, if anything, suite passengers are far more likely to be slightly subsidising the headline price promoted for inside cabins than the other way around

 

Do staff get anymore, when with fewer cabins they are less likely to get extra cash tips? Another unknown.

My comments about feeling privileged if I had spent that on a cruise meant that I do feel privileged at being able to afford that sort of cruise, or indeed the sort of cheaper end cruises that I chose to take. I know all too well what real poverty is in the world and know that many of the crew come from poor countries. And I am not surprised that they want to spend most of their lives away from home and families working long hours because although, I think, they are not well remunerated, they and their families have a better life at home. That for me still does not mean they should not be paid what people from developed countries would feel was a good wage for working those hours and conditions. I have no compunction in saying that as far as I am concerned the ones who pay more for a cruise should be willing to pay a couple of hundred more for the staff who look after them and make that a holiday of a lifetime. The money is a small percentage extra on top of a larger cost.

 

For those, and I am one, advocating that AG's should be incorporated into basic fares, I am sure that if PO or any other line did that, they would add a small percentage cost and, in my view that would be right, and that would mean the more one paid in fare the more one contributed to staff.

 

The present system in unfair in so many ways and I will refuse to participate in giving something extra for staff, for that either to be taken as an excuse not to increase wages in line with AG increases or PO to make some financial profit from that and worse to weaponise that gift for staff by threatening to refuse to give that gift to them, I can do that quite well myself, I don't need a company that has not given the gift to threaten to do it for me. I can easily, for awful service, remove AG do not give cash in-lieu.

 

 

I will remove AG and give cash and at the level or above that which AG would be assuming the service is all that I have had on cruise lines before......excellent.