A few recorded facts.

[blueboo]

(Quote) The big question for me then is why, if everyone paid the auto tip, the amount that P&O collect from the 18 cabins they service equates to £2650pm (14x.35x18x30). I would like to know what P&O are doing with the extra £2150 they are collecting for every steward and the extra they also collect from the waiters tips.(Quote)

 

Probably those two new ships arriving in the next couple of years.

good point :evilsmile::eek:

[Eglesbrech]

The practice of thanking someone is not reserved for Christians alone. So how does one show appreciation for what is done for them. Verbally, yes, but the thought that the recipient needs or does not need the gratuity is immaterial. One could offer a gift of some sort but as we are dealing with travel and it's restrictions, currency is the easiest choice in showing appreciation beyond the common verbal thank you, be it sincere or otherwise. I have no quarrel with anyone who chooses not to tip. All I am saying is that tipping assures me that my expression of thank you is acknowledged and hopefully appreciated which in itself makes me feel content. I realize that the practice of tipping in the UK is not of that in Canada. But I have stood in a UK pub with a local who forwarned me that tipping is not the practice there, then got them in and advised the server to have one himself...

 

I did not suggest in any way that it was. If you re read the post I was saying that there was perhaps a positive way to look at what you had posted, as others felt it was perhaps self serving.

[davecttr]

Interesting that it was mentioned elsewhere that Marella stewards get $600 per month and Waiters $750, considerably less than the amounts quoted for P&O, yet those Marella crew are happy, friendly and efficient :confused:. They come from all over the world including eastern Europe. Tips are included in the fare but if you want to tip some cash the crew member can keep it.

 

so why the difference?

 

For a Marella steward to earn as much as a P&O one they would need to get cash tips of £1.03 per day for the 18 cabins they service. That's £7.21 per week and I know lots of people tip £20 to £30

 

So the money the crew receive is not so different ?

[Zombatar]

Interesting thread here. Love the argument that it is Christian to tip and that it is better to give than receive. Please tell me how many of you good souls tip the man from DPD when he delvers your amazon order, or the postie who puts those letters through your door each day, or the delivery driver from your local supermarket who brings your shopping or the bin man who gets rid of your rubbish for you.

 

I could go on and on.

 

Do they not give you exemplary service?

 

Peter

[Eglesbrech]

Interesting thread here. Love the argument that it is Christian to tip and that it is better to give than receive. Please tell me how many of you good souls tip the man from DPD when he delvers your amazon order, or the postie who puts those letters through your door each day, or the delivery driver from your local supermarket who brings your shopping or the bin man who gets rid of your rubbish for you.

 

I could go on and on.

 

Do they not give you exemplary service?

 

Peter

 

Try actually reading what I said and in context.

[Wiltonian]

(Quote) The big question for me then is why, if everyone paid the auto tip, the amount that P&O collect from the 18 cabins they service equates to £2650pm (14x.35x18x30). I would like to know what P&O are doing with the extra £2150 they are collecting for every steward and the extra they also collect from the waiters tips.(Quote)

 

Probably those two new ships arriving in the next couple of years.

 

How many stewards on a typical ship? How many staff? I suspect the ratio is at the very least 10 other staff for every room steward. Spread the gratuities across the lot, and you end up with very different figures.

[Wiltonian]

The fundamental issue is not average earnings in the Philippines, but the attitude to wages and tips inherent in the culture which dominates the cruise industry, the USA. It's commonplace in the US for waiters to receive perhaps $4 an hour, on the basis that tips will make the total into a reasonable wage. That's reflected in US lines like Celebrity, which add on around $15 a day for gratuities. Their whole remuneration model works on that basis.

 

Incidentally, given the relative poverty in many developing countries, taking average earnings as a basis for discussion is highly questionable.

[Zombatar]

Try actually reading what I said and in context.

 

As indeed you could do with my post and also try to answer the questions. Or are they a bit to close to home?

 

Peter

[terrierjohn]

How many stewards on a typical ship? How many staff? I suspect the ratio is at the very least 10 other staff for every room steward. Spread the gratuities across the lot, and you end up with very different figures.

But if you read P&O's information about tipping you will see it is limited to Cabin Stewards, Waiters, Assistants, Butlers and Head waiters, so the auto gratuities are not paid to any other staff.

[ONT-CA]

I did not suggest in any way that it was. If you re read the post I was saying that there was perhaps a positive way to look at what you had posted, as others felt it was perhaps self serving.

 

I only meant to attribute generosity to many cultures and religions.

Your then following post certainly stirred my morning coffee so to speak and I did a quick run through the items you covered. Yes, with the exception of the mail we do apply gratuities to these services either as presented or annually at, say, Christmas. We did at one time include mail but the new system now obliges us to go and pick it up :( The overall issue of tipping is of course appreciation, for who would want to express appreciation for rude or indifferent service.

 

As to the possible corporate acquisition of part of my daily gratuity there is little one can do if such is in fact the case. I liken it to the ship's use of duty and tax free alcohol whereby they can make a drink for as little as 50 cents and then have the gall to sell it for 10 dollars. But being aware of that equation does not stop me from ordering another when the situation warrants it...

[Tom Baker]

As to the possible corporate acquisition of part of my daily gratuity there is little one can do if such is in fact the case.

 

Oh yes there is!!!

[ONT-CA]

Oh yes there is!!!

 

If what is meant involves cancelling our tips altogether I think that would be unfair to those who deserve it, even if they might only see a portion. The means of gratuity distribution is more than complicated and rife with innuendo and rumour. In the absence of definitive knowledge of misdeed we do the next best thing and keep calm and carry on.:confused:

[Tom Baker]

If what is meant involves cancelling our tips altogether I think that would be unfair to those who deserve it, even if they might only see a portion. The means of gratuity distribution is more than complicated and rife with innuendo and rumour. In the absence of definitive knowledge of misdeed we do the next best thing and keep calm and carry on.:confused:

 

You obviously come from an area where tipping by the affluent subsidises those on low paid jobs. A two class system that keeps those poorly paid reliant on the whim of those above them, a superior mindset. We in this country have moved on from that and like the Australians we feel that you should get a full days pay for a full days job.

 

If ALL the wages of staff were paid by the company everyone would receive a specific wage based on their job and the number of hours they work. We would all pay the same as there would be no opting out for whatever reason, the income would be constant and everyone would be treated equally, fairly and know exactly how much they were earning each week. Staff wouldn't have to rely on the whims of passenger ratings AND those staff who went the extra mile would get tips from the guests IN ADDITION to what they were receiving. IMHO The happiest crew at sea are those from what used to be called Thomson Cruises who have this policy. There are never any tipping threads on THEIR boards!

[Expat Cruise]

A tip should be a small token of thanks to reward someone over and above their normal wage.

However on cruise ships it has become standard practise for some staff to be paid a pittance and that their tips should make up the majority of their wage.

But if the data in the original post is true on P&O tips now make up less than half of a stewards approximate £1200pm.

The big question for me then is why, if everyone paid the auto tip, the amount that P&O collect from the 18 cabins they service equates to £2650pm (14x.35x18x30). I would like to know what P&O are doing with the extra £2150 they are collecting for every steward and the extra they also collect from the waiters tips.

 

Agreed these are not tips, the lines try to call them tips and want guest to believe they are tips but they are not. These fees are for the benefit of the cruise line. As guest it is your choice pay them, reduce them, raise them, or remove them.... it is your choice and your option as a guest what you do within your account.

[ONT-CA]

After all these years on Cruise Critic I never thought I would again find myself in the debate on tipping. But here I am.

Our affluence or lack thereof has nothing to do with the subject. Nor has the income of the recipients of our appreciation. If that were so tipping would be most appreciated at the fast food chains which, from what we are told, are very low paying jobs. But their house rules forbid it . On more than one occasion, we have been served by a restaurant owner when he was caught short handed and we tipped him for his wonderful service for he and he alone made our evening memorable. (In thanking us he did explain that it would go into the staff's tip kitty of which he is not a beneficiary) I realize that not all countries have he same custom of showing appreciation and so when in Rome... But I can't fathom adjusting our tipping custom according to the registry of a shipping line.

[pisces14]

I only meant to attribute generosity to many cultures and religions.

Your then following post certainly stirred my morning coffee so to speak and I did a quick run through the items you covered. Yes, with the exception of the mail we do apply gratuities to these services either as presented or annually at, say, Christmas. We did at one time include mail but the new system now obliges us to go and pick it up :( The overall issue of tipping is of course appreciation, for who would want to express appreciation for rude or indifferent service.

 

As to the possible corporate acquisition of part of my daily gratuity there is little one can do if such is in fact the case. I liken it to the ship's use of duty and tax free alcohol whereby they can make a drink for as little as 50 cents and then have the gall to sell it for 10 dollars. But being aware of that equation does not stop me from ordering another when the situation warrants it...

 

I really don't want to get involved with another thread on tipping. I just want to say that I agree with everything you have said. As far as I'm concerned it seems to me that most people now cruising on P&O are simply looking for any excuse not to tip.

[grapau27]

I really don't want to get involved with another thread on tipping. I just want to say that I agree with everything you have said. As far as I'm concerned it seems to me that most people now cruising on P&O are simply looking for any excuse not to tip.

Thats why tips need to be included in the cruise price.

 

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[NoFlyGuy]

If most people now cruising on P&O are simply looking for any excuse not to tip, it begs the question why?

 

If they tipped in the past why not now?

 

On the other hand If it's only down to the 'new to cruising' passengers not tipping then P&O need to take that on board and act accordingly.

 

Or, could it be the 40% increase in less than 2 years or the circa 120% increase in about 6 years.

 

We all know about inflation but...

[AnOnymously]

spot on, perhaps the info is already circulating the web and if so a fat chance of it being suppressed

 

ps - please DON'T tell me where I can find it

That post you quote has already been suppressed, it was removed, only trace was you repeat!

[AnOnymously]

I really don't want to get involved with another thread on tipping. I just want to say that I agree with everything you have said. As far as I'm concerned it seems to me that most people now cruising on P&O are simply looking for any excuse not to tip.

Sadly that is such a generalisation that it does insult those who have chosen, and for good reasons, not to use the AG system. Mainly because it is broken. The post on here that got deleted suggested heavily that PO got some of those AG's and that they were a pernicious way of trying to control staff.

 

I hope for their hard work, long hours and time away from home looking after, often difficult customers, and, like a good scout, is expected to smile and whistle under all circumstances do get good wages which they can comfortably live on and send plenty home. I also want to reward them for that hard work which can make a cruise a wonderful experience, but I will not pay a levy secretly, from us, administered by the cruise line, that can be used against staff to say my thank you for that. Before I started reading these threads, and particularly that deleted post, I was willing to pay PO the AG amount when I booked the cruise, because the recent rise is far too much, but now NO AG and tip the staff individually. That will mean, if I understand the PO policy, they will (given the possibility of losing bonuses because of not hitting targets) get their full bonus and get the cash tips I give them. That must sound good to staff.

 

I therefore resent the op suggesting and insinuating that I will not pay tips to the staff to reduce the cost of the cruise.

[yuvraj]

I don't get caught up with how much or how little the crew earn. Only thing that matters to me is whether an additional contribution is expected by an individual providing a service to me. For example for cleaning my cabin everyday. If it is the case that the remuneration is made up of basic pay plus tips then I would feel very uncomfortable not paying the expected amount.

 

It's the equivalent of asking a porter to carry my bags and then not giving him a tip. A tip is expected although I am sure he gets a decent wage if he works in Southampton.

 

For me there is a lot of confusion over how much to tip and to whom. It is an individual matter but that doesn't help if you are trying to do the right thing without going overboard.

[davecttr]

Sadly that is such a generalisation that it does insult those who have chosen, and for good reasons, not to use the AG system. Mainly because it is broken. The post on here that got deleted suggested heavily that PO got some of those AG's and that they were a pernicious way of trying to control staff.

 

I hope for their hard work, long hours and time away from home looking after, often difficult customers, and, like a good scout, is expected to smile and whistle under all circumstances do get good wages which they can comfortably live on and send plenty home. I also want to reward them for that hard work which can make a cruise a wonderful experience, but I will not pay a levy secretly, from us, administered by the cruise line, that can be used against staff to say my thank you for that. Before I started reading these threads, and particularly that deleted post, I was willing to pay PO the AG amount when I booked the cruise, because the recent rise is far too much, but now NO AG and tip the staff individually. That will mean, if I understand the PO policy, they will (given the possibility of losing bonuses because of not hitting targets) get their full bonus and get the cash tips I give them. That must sound good to staff.

 

I therefore resent the op suggesting and insinuating that I will not pay tips to the staff to reduce the cost of the cruise.

It also suggested in that original post that the performance results may be massaged in the case of staff with auto gratuities removed. that massaging is intended to reduce the performance part of their pay, presumably to compensate for the loss of the auto gratuity to the company.

 

Stewards do crazy things to get good marks on the questionnaire. I was ill and confined to my cabin for 2 days. That did not stop the steward from knocking once and entering the cabin waving the questionnaire about. I told him to get out, The idiot might had put his own health at risk AND the health of the occupants of the other cabins he serviced. The special cabin cleaning left a lot to be desired so there were opportunities for cross infection. Guess what mark I gave him!

[grapau27]

It also suggested in that original post that the performance results may be massaged in the case of staff with auto gratuities removed. that massaging is intended to reduce the performance part of their pay, presumably to compensate for the loss of the auto gratuity to the company.

 

Stewards do crazy things to get good marks on the questionnaire. I was ill and confined to my cabin for 2 days. That did not stop the steward from knocking once and entering the cabin waving the questionnaire about. I told him to get out, The idiot might had put his own health at risk AND the health of the occupants of the other cabins he serviced. The special cabin cleaning left a lot to be desired so there were opportunities for cross infection. Guess what mark I gave him!

As long as the CS does his job properly we will always give them a 10.

 

 

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[AnOnymously]

As long as the CS does his job properly we will always give them a 10.

 

 

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What are we doing to people when we push them to such extremes? Shame when something that is supposed to be a 'thank you' to staff can be weaponised by a third party (the cruise company), who has not contributed anything to the money and the contributors have to capitulate to that weaponisation by giving maximum marks or else it is not given. Disgrace.

 

 

I have to say I usually find it difficult to give perfect marks about anything, rarely is there no room for improvement, not just on ships. It is why cash tipping is best, pay a reasonable wage and then let the customer decide. It was good when I was river cruising, no AG, that there was a 'suggested amount', which gave some idea to people who really did not know what sort of amount was reasonable for good service, not miserly and not over the top.

 

Next cruise is a sea cruise but on a small boat and the company does a lot of river cruising and they leave tipping up to the customers discretion, but hope there is a guide.

[Expat Cruise]

The question has been asked many times why doesn't P & O just add the fee to the toital cruise price without any choice?

 

Really simple answer that many do not want to see here. The daily fee is not for the benefit of the crew, it is for the benefit of the company. They will not just add into the cruise fare because then everything shifts from a voluntary fee that they "pass back to the crew" to income and must be accounted for as income.

 

The cruise line is being honest in how the fees collected are distributed and who gets them. The majority of the fee paid goes to the staff members the guest want tipped.

If the cruise lines wants to prove these statements wrong present the facts. But until they are willing to do so I will keep removing and paying in cash to the people I believe have earned a tip.