Future of Oceania

[RJB]

Well, If I had all my ships filled most all the time by a very loyal demographic which is only getting larger, would not building more ships be contrary to the laws of supply and demand. ? Viking and Branson may soon find out and be at each others throat to get passengers having to cut/slash prices.

 

O is wise NOT to play that game Viking may well be experiencing a cash flow problem in the near future Doubling the number of rooms in a hotel that only has had 50% occupancy is not going to suddenly fill the hotel.

 

As far as Regent, their fare is nearly double that of O and it is Regent passengers who are migrating to O . Not the other way around ! Many simply like the ability of Ala carte on O and its cuisine, Something Regent and Viking lack.as all inclusive ships.

 

With Branson and Viking building to their hearts content, the only thing I see is them creating an over supply and crashing their profits. In the meantime O with its nice little fleet, sails full over and over making money..

I think Azamar was surpassed by O is because O offered a much more refined product and choices Azamar was an attempt to create a Celebrity's Regent. It did not work ( now their prices are way more than O)

Where did you get the idea that O sails full all the time? Not what I hear. The real nws is that the ships are starting to get old and tired. Hoping this trend will be reversed and O will move forward. We have 2 more trips booked for this year and fully expect to take them. Lets see how that goes before booking any more.

[Hawaiidan]

Where did you get the idea that O sails full all the time? Not what I hear. The real nws is that the ships are starting to get old and tired. Hoping this trend will be reversed and O will move forward. We have 2 more trips booked for this year and fully expect to take them. Lets see how that goes before booking any more.

 

How did New South Wales provide you information.

[RJB]

How did New South Wales provide you information.

Just go looking. It is there if you want to find it.

[Ken the cruiser]

>>Why is Oceania not expanding and thus "allowing" Viking Ocean to surpass it in terms of fleet size? What Oceania seems to be doing (or not doing) is like what Azamara was doing (or was not doing) when Oceania overtook it.<<

 

FWIW My read has been that NCL will allow Oceania to fade away and hope that the loyal membership will migrate to Regent.

I think they are mainly wrong if that's the "plan" (My quotes)

Talking with our O PCC, she said as soon as the new Regent ship is finished, they are going to start on a new O ship which will hopefully be done sometime in 2020. Something about Regent and O use the same shipyard and they only have room to build one at a time. But that’s all she knew.

[StanandJim]

Talking with our O PCC, she said as soon as the new Regent ship is finished, they are going to start on a new O ship which will hopefully be done sometime in 2020. Something about Regent and O use the same shipyard and they only have room to build one at a time. But that’s all she knew.

 

This fervor for new ships is nothing if not a double edged sword. Whenever they come, the new ships may have all of the new bells and whistles, but they will certainly be far larger than the R ships, and perhaps larger than the O ships.

I'm quoting FDR directly here, "EVERYBODY builds larger"....and he said that before he was affiliated with NCL. ;)

[keithm]

It would appear so. The name isn't even right. It's Virgin Voyages, not Cruises.

 

Here's a real picture of what their first ship will look like:

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/40921112199708dc83bf19130a91f017f734696d/c=16-0-7105-4005&r=x1683&c=3200x1680/local/-/media/2017/10/31/USATODAY/USATODAY/636450541272892844-Virgin-Voyages-Ship-1-Front.jpg

Kind of looks like a "stealth" cruise ship. Branson's noted for giving his customers what they want. If he has to deal with "shareholders" the ships might not look as pictured.

[keithm]

Where did you get the idea that O sails full all the time? Not what I hear. The real nws is that the ships are starting to get old and tired. Hoping this trend will be reversed and O will move forward. We have 2 more trips booked for this year and fully expect to take them. Lets see how that goes before booking any more.

On our Jan. Riviera trip, the ship sailed with about 1000 pax as opposed to 1250 when full. This is likely the reason we got the upgrade offer from an inside to a B-1 for $200pp. We took the upgrade(obviously) We hope it happens again, but obviously there's no guarantee.

[Cruise Junky]

Kind of looks like a "stealth" cruise ship. Branson's noted for giving his customers what they want. If he has to deal with "shareholders" the ships might not look as pictured.

I'm just happy it's adult only :)

[keithm]

I'm just happy it's adult only :)

I prefer adults only as well. I'll admit, I've not seen "bad" kids on any ship(unlike those Youtube videos, my God!)Our Regal cruise had quite a few(Feb. school vacation) & I have to admit these kids were fine. Some of their parents.....?

[Classiccruiser777]

I prefer adults only as well. I'll admit, I've not seen "bad" kids on any ship(unlike those Youtube videos, my God!)Our Regal cruise had quite a few(Feb. school vacation) & I have to admit these kids were fine. Some of their parents.....?

Bad parenting = Ill behaved kids.

 

Just off the Regatta which had many more kids than usual. Other than some loud behavior in the pool no issues I noticed.

 

If there are some new builds my hope is that they aren’t larger than the current O class.

[Mura]

I know that some of you think with RJB that the ships are looking old and tired. Certainly, if you are eager for newer and newer ships, you would think so.

 

 

We don't think they look old and tired, not even the "R" ships. Certainly NOT the "O" ships. That's our perception. Truth time: the last time we were on an "R" ship was in October 2016 when we were on the newly renovated SIRENA. But the previous July we were on NAUTICA. Our recent cruises have been one each on MARINA and RIVIERA. (The capital letters in the ship's names are because that's how we did it at my old maritime law firm!)

 

 

 

I am sure that if I boarded one of the "R" ships today, I wouldn't fine it old and tired. I'd find any of them welcoming, that's true, because they are very familiar to us, ever since Renaissance days.

 

 

As someone who always thought that Ren's downfall was building too many ships too fast, I personally am not eager for Oceania to take on more debt when they relatively recently acquired SIRENA. But they have been so beautifully maintained that I really don't see the accusation ...

 

 

 

That's JMO!

[Wol]

This fervor for new ships is nothing if not a double edged sword. Whenever they come, the new ships may have all of the new bells and whistles, but they will certainly be far larger than the R ships, and perhaps larger than the O ships.

I'm quoting FDR directly here, "EVERYBODY builds larger"....and he said that before he was affiliated with NCL. ;)

 

Another quote that to me shows FDR is somewhat losing the plot!

 

Oceania has been very successful - as we are told at length at every Captain's cocktail party - by targeting a niche market and keeping loyal guests. In the immortal words why fix what ain't broke?

 

The loyal guests are just that - loyal - BECAUSE of the small ship feel, the demographic guest lists, the lack of children onboard, the friendliness of the staff etc. To branch out into the medium/big ship field would not be progress for the brand, even if from the POV of the company they might fill the vessels with (new) passengers - less the ones who go elsewhere.

[Travelcat2]

Talking with our O PCC, she said as soon as the new Regent ship is finished, they are going to start on a new O ship which will hopefully be done sometime in 2020. Something about Regent and O use the same shipyard and they only have room to build one at a time. But that’s all she knew.

 

That makes sense sine the Splendor will be out in February 2020! So, if they start building an Oceania ship right away, it will likely be finished in 2022.

[Classiccruiser777]

Another quote that to me shows FDR is somewhat losing the plot!

 

Oceania has been very successful - as we are told at length at every Captain's cocktail party - by targeting a niche market and keeping loyal guests. In the immortal words why fix what ain't broke?

 

The loyal guests are just that - loyal - BECAUSE of the small ship feel, the demographic guest lists, the lack of children onboard, the friendliness of the staff etc. To branch out into the medium/big ship field would not be progress for the brand, even if from the POV of the company they might fill the vessels with (new) passengers - less the ones who go elsewhere.

It costs far more to land a new customer than retain an old one.

[Cruise Junky]

It costs far more to land a new customer than retain an old one.

But old ones spend far less onboard than new ones. And they have to give them loyalty perks whereas new ones cost them nothing.

[Wol]

But old ones spend far less onboard than new ones. And they have to give them loyalty perks whereas new ones cost them nothing.

 

Possibly true - but only one part of the calculation that a company has to make.

[StanandJim]

Another quote that to me shows FDR is somewhat losing the plot!

 

Oceania has been very successful - as we are told at length at every Captain's cocktail party - by targeting a niche market and keeping loyal guests. In the immortal words why fix what ain't broke?

 

The loyal guests are just that - loyal - BECAUSE of the small ship feel, the demographic guest lists, the lack of children onboard, the friendliness of the staff etc. To branch out into the medium/big ship field would not be progress for the brand, even if from the POV of the company they might fill the vessels with (new) passengers - less the ones who go elsewhere.

 

How I wish that you were right about this. :loudcry:

 

Sadly, you will find that despite their protestations, the Old Guard are far more concerned with the number of Specialty Restaurants and the size of the bathrooms, than with the somewhat esoteric notion of keeping the ships smaller, for intimacy sake.

 

Sure, they like the idea of a more intimate ship, but when push comes to shove they will inevitably vote with their wallets for amenities such as bigger & better shows, live sports programming and additional restaurants which come with the larger platform and higher passenger count..

 

Personally, we're veterans of the "don't go bigger" battle with Cunard, Royal Viking, Sitmar, Home Lines and HAL, losing every single time. :mad:

 

So, for whatever it is worth, Mr. Del Rio IS correct. Everyone DOES go bigger.

[keithm]

How I wish that you were right about this. :loudcry:

 

Sadly, you will find that despite their protestations, the Old Guard are far more concerned with the number of Specialty Restaurants and the size of the bathrooms, than with the somewhat esoteric notion of keeping the ships smaller, for intimacy sake.

 

Sure, they like the idea of a more intimate ship, but when push comes to shove they will inevitably vote with their wallets for amenities such as bigger & better shows, live sports programming and additional restaurants which come with the larger platform and higher passenger count..

 

Personally, we're veterans of the "don't go bigger" battle with Cunard, Royal Viking, Sitmar, Home Lines and HAL, losing every single time. :mad:

 

So, for whatever it is worth, Mr. Del Rio IS correct. Everyone DOES go bigger.

It certainly would be more difficult to maintain the food quality for ships carrying over 2000 pax. I don't know a single ship that could do that. A specialty rest. possibly but the entire ship overall?

[RJB]

It costs far more to land a new customer than retain an old one.

that being said they are cutting back on the current rewards program. At this point taking away perks makes no sense to me. They should be trying harder to keep us on board and also go after new customers.

[Queen of DaNile]

Not "all" go bigger.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2018/07/02/seabourn-cruise-line-orders-two-expedition-style-ships/750270002/

[StanandJim]

that being said they are cutting back on the current rewards program. At this point taking away perks makes no sense to me. They should be trying harder to keep us on board and also go after new customers.

 

Just so we understand what your expectations are, RJB, please put the following goals in the order which YOU BELIEVE that Oceania should use:

 

1) Maintain or increase current Loyalty Reward levels

2) Build New Ships

3) Maintain or increase current food budgets.

4) Maintain or increase current staffing levels

5) Maintain or increase current entertainment budgets, possibly to include Live Sports Programming

6) Maintain or decrease current pricing levels

 

[Ken the cruiser]

Just so we understand what your expectations are, RJB, please put the following goals in the order which YOU BELIEVE that Oceania should use:

 

1) Maintain or increase current Loyalty Reward levels

2) Build New Ships

3) Maintain or increase current food budgets.

4) Maintain or increase current staffing levels

5) Maintain or increase current entertainment budgets, possibly to include Live Sports Programming

6) Maintain or decrease current pricing levels

 

Can I vote? :confused:

 

3

4

5 (although we really don't care about Live Sports Programming)

2 (more O class ships would be nice offering more unique itineraries)

6 (cost is fine as it pays for all the cool things and itineraries O provides)

1 (even after Nov 2019, O will still have the best Loyalty program we know of)

 

NOTE: We're in our mid 60's

Edited July 13, 2018 by Ken the cruiser

[pinotlover]

Last summer, on the Nautica, a Senior Officer told us that just over 50% of the passengers were 80 and above, while half of the remaining were over 70. We had two couples that had 70+ cruises.

 

Very loyal cruisers, but how many more cruises do you think most of those gave. Argumentatively, some were already on one cruise too many from their mental and physical conditions.

 

The question becomes, since this is about the “ future “, are the future cruisers going to be drawn in by the same things the past ones were? Simple question, do today’s 55 year older cruisers have the same attitude about O’s WiFi services as its 80 year old cruisers? Things will need to change to attract the younger cruisers. After 15 years , I believe the menus in the Polo Grill and Toscana has gotten old and tiring, while others don’t believe they should ever change a thing!

[hillsprint]

The current situation re pricing levels is interesting, as the current listed prices for both X and Azamara for 2019 have moved them both to be comparable with and sometimes dearer than O, much to the consternation of the X & Az CC boards.

 

Given the number of folk across the industry that book cruises 12 plus months in advance, O might start to pick up those discerning folk that are getting fed up with the apparent nickel & diming and hard selling that particularly X has been accused of.

[ABoatNerd]

Pinotlover makes an excellent point - what is the future target market for Oceania?

 

The age profile noted by pinotlover is not sustainable for the future and not suitable to justify a new build program.

 

Oceania should pursue my demographic 50-65 who have 25 years of cruising futures. This would be half the shelf life of a new build.

 

This is the same demographic that the highest level mass line Celebrity is kicking to the curb in their pursuit of the millennial customer. That is how Oceania received my business as a former long time Celebrity customer.

 

I went to a Scenic cruise session recently (aimed at Viking customers to avoid them going back to Viking) and the age profile there was all over 70. So Viking has that market tightly controlled. But..........Scenic has just launched a very high end explorer ship (another to arrive shortly) that blows anything anyone else has out of the water - these ships do exotic itineraries and the level of amenities is up there with a Ritz hotel.

 

The just about to retire and early retiree is a sweet spot - have money and time and health to travel multiple times a year and have developed a desire for higher than mass cruise lines food, drink and service.

 

Azamara has significantly raised their prices above Oceania and their fleet is below Oceania in size and quality as well as the service and food is below Oceania.

 

Oceania must maintain high standards and surgically strike at the above target market.