Tell Me About NCL "Casinos At Sea"?

[midgetcoach]

Went on a NCL cruise this past summer. The slots paid absolutely nothing. No desire to sail with them again. 

[AnitaVacation]

sailing NCL in about 23 days, CAS offer, but yea, very disappointed overall and we're not even on the ship yet...lol 

We are using up CCC (covid cruise credit), but this may be our last NCL... 

We are booked for 5 sailings in 2023 on the Mardi Gras, extended balcony (and one aft balcony!) ... total cost for each week: (approx)$468 (total for 2) plus onboard credit AND freeplay in the casino (and drinks everywhere).... no admin fee, no pre-pay gratuities on the drinks... 

I had a choice of the MG or the new Celebration...but Orlando is easier for us (and less expensive)... 

We really did like NCL over CCL... but CCL has upped their game and is winning us over..

(just to add: this 10 days, mini suite, with airfare is costing us the entire $4400 credit, plus about $500 out of pocket)... and this was a CAS 'deal' 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by AnitaVacation

[negn]

I also find CAS has tightened the purse strings.   Always got a balcony or mini suite.  Lately only comped inside though play is the same.  I then upgrade to balcony    With upgrade and admin fees , my free cruise is usually around $1200.  Still not bad for a weeks vacation.   Compare to Princess with no fees.  Do have a $200 pp deposit which is not refundable but shows up as a OBC which you can have refunded.   Add to that the free play they give and you know who I now cruise with

[texasreb]

I phoned the other day to CAS. Wife has oceanview offer 7 day sailing. Pre-covid usually had balcony offer. Wanted $600 to upgrade, the admin fee $280, and the taxes port fees. Not even counting grats here and over $1200 for FREE cruise. Also would not let me add my inside offer to do the upgrade. We sail Carnival in a few weeks. Aft balcony costing $480 not including any grats.. Drinks in casino only, and $200 OBC and $100 FP each. Plus we used a $200 CC balance to knock down the billing. So going for under $300

[Guyc]

I am not yet a CAS member, but I already have a cruise ready and paid for (Alaska cruise this May). Can I sign up to be a member now (ie. before the cruise happens), or must I wait and sign up once I'm ON the ship?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Guyc

[Sand and Seas]

2 hours ago, Guyc said:

I am not yet a CAS member, but I already have a cruise ready and paid for (Alaska cruise this May). Can I sign up to be a member now (ie. before the cruise happens), or must I wait and sign up once I'm ON the ship?

 

Just use your room key when you play in the casino.  That will start earning you points in their players club.   If you are playing slots, there will be a place to insert your room card or tap it.  The slot machine will then know your name and track your play.   If you earn 2500plus points during your cruise they can be used towards your onboard charges.    You can call CAS after you are home and ask about discounted or 'comped' cruises based on your play.

 

Have a great cruise!

 

[angalyse]

!

[freebirds80]

On 7/25/2022 at 5:50 PM, UKstages said:

 

it's not entirely true to say that cruise ship casinos are not regulated. they follow the gambling laws of the country in which the ship is registered. and many follow CLIA (cruise lines international association) policies which stipulate that the ship's casino must adhere to the regulatory standards of the nevada gaming control board (or another licensed jurisdiction). that is supposed to include payback. however, they can choose to follow the rules of a licensed jurisdiction with lower payback than nevada. even new jersey has lower payback than nevada... minimum payout is 85%, which is what you presumably and typically would find penny machines set at in atlantic city.

 

that being said, you're in international waters, so - the theory goes - they can pay whatever they want. well, they could conceivably do that, but there is just one problem: nobody would play. and if the prevailing theory is also that they can do whatever they like with you because you're a captive audience and you're never coming back... well, the cruise line that does that does so at its own peril. because, at any given time, a large percentage of cruise casino patrons do actually come back... a lot of people on every cruise have received some sort of discount or comp from the casino... so clearly people do come back. they don't expect to win, but they do expect to have fun and "time on device." and if the slots were set to a ridiculously low return, then they would never come back.

 

lots of people don't win a thing on cruises. lots of people have a really bad run, during which the only thing that keeps them going is a trip to the ATM, the only machine in the casino that reliably pays out every time. but when people say that a cruise line or land-based casino has set the payback really low, what they really mean is that they didn't win anything on that casino visit. 

 

those are two different things.

 

i am sorry to hear you had a bad experience on the jewel. sounds like you lost. but that is different than knowing that they have set the slots "much lower" than any other casino you've played in. your short-term experience was apparently very bad. that's random chance, more than anything. i don't do a damn thing differently when i win than when i lose.

 

one needs to play a million or more spins on each machine to get a true look at what the payback of a particular machine is. and even then, it's just a guess. unless one has access to the purchase order for the machine and can see what payback the EPROM chip is set to, or unless one has access to the virtual reels, it's truly just a guess.

 

some people will win and some will lose. and people who play longer will almost certainly lose more than those who play for just a short time. but not every time.

UKstage,

 

I agree with some of your statements, but having maintained Seven Stars status for approximately ten years, I, too, am familiar with the gaming industry. It should not be glossed over that 85% is a horrible, horrible payback. If even just half of the machines in the ship's casino are at 85%, that's a massive benefit for the house even with scattered better odds in the mix. You yourself mentioned in a prior post about video poker not having a good pay table; let's be honest, the pay tables are worse than even bar tops in Vegas.

 

Just like other people's losses don't show how good/bad the paybacks are, neither do your wins. Many people here tell stories of losses at the ship's casino; there aren't too many wins. And most people talk about wins more than losses. As you mentioned, no one knows the payback on the slots, but we can see them on video poker and they are terrible. I don't see the casino giving bad odds on those machines and good on others.

 

NCL posted a loss this last quarter (Q4 2022), and they are looking for revenue everywhere they can. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that they had tighter than normal machines. Just look at the diminished services NCL is doing in other areas on board (i.e one housekeeping visit per day) and also implementing the highest service fees in the industry. It's just not a far-fetched idea to think the machines are heavily weighted towards the house.

 

Finally, the thought you dismissed as "nobody would play" if the odds were terrible just doesn't hold water because 1) most people have disposable income on vacation, 2) most people don't live in an area where they can gamble so they will play no matter the odds 3) most don't know how to look at pay tables or play for that matter, 4) NCL doesn't need Whales, they just need a steady stream of casual players, 5) compulsive gamblers do exist, and finally, 6) NCL has a captive audience, especially for those times/days with nothing is going on around the ship. At least in Vegas if you don't like one casino, you can find another.  

 

I, for one, am more disciplined than that, I don't play on-board at all. Seeing the video poker pay tables tells me all I need to see about the payback.

[UKstages]

On 3/7/2023 at 2:38 PM, freebirds80 said:

I agree with some of your statements, but having maintained Seven Stars status for approximately ten years, I, too, am familiar with the gaming industry...

 

i agree with much of what you say here, as well. we do have a slightly different focus when expressing similar concepts, though. i believe there is indeed an overall lower payout on cruise ships, but i also believe the overall casino experience is pretty much the same on NCL ships as it is on other ships and the cruise ship casino experience is very similar to land-based casinos.

 

in all my NCL gambling related posts on cruise critic i've tried to drive home the same central points...

 

• individual losses in the short term have far more to do with random chance than a "tight" machine, which - the theory goes - has recently had its payback changed to help meet some sort of revenue goal caused by a corporate financial downturn. i see the exact same complaints about poor payback in land-based gaming forums. my belief is the complainer just had a bad run... they weren't lucky. i see handpays taking place on cruise ships all the time, quite often when i'm not winning a damn thing myself.

 

• changing payback is a cumbersome process and, as in a land based casino, a casino is much more likely to have a lower overall payback on newly installed machines rather than machines that have been onboard for awhile. if one believes that NCL has a corporate goal to tighten up machines (i myself don't think they do), then it's more likely to be true for  a new ship like the prima... more so than an older ship like the gem. have there been widespread reports of bad runs and increased risk of ruin on the prima? i don't know. but that would certainly be something to look for. those are all newly installed   machines which should adhere to NCL's tight payback model, if it exists. if you do see a newer game/machine in the midst of a bunch of older machines on an older ship, yes, that machine is more likely to have been brought onboard with lower payback, absolutely.

 

• choose your game wisely. if you enjoy playing slots, be aware that many of the newer games are highly volatile, particularly those from aristocrat, WMS and konami. when you win, it's a huge payday. when you lose, it's embarrassingly awful. a lot of times, when people are losing big, i get the sense that they are playing "buffalo" and "planet moolah" games and such, which can deplete bankrolls very quickly...  unless they are lucky enough to randomly get all the bonus features at once. it's not uncommon, on a penny machine, for a player to go through four, five or six hundred dollars or more without a bonus round. again, this happens in land-based casinos, as well as NCL ships. i don't see any difference in the way gameplay "feels" on NCL than i do elsewhere.

 

• regarding the perceived reduction in NCL comps... when offers are downgraded to inside from balcony, or to club balcony from haven. i have yet to see this myself, but i often wonder if it's a play-based cutback or if it is indeed arbitrary. players are often the worst judges of their own coin-in. invariably, when i talk to friends with this complaint, after a few questions, they admit that they didn't play as much (time, bet level) on their most recent cruises. it's also important to note that qualifications may be higher now... they were more inclined to give away better cabins for "free" after the restart. now that more people are cruising, the inventory if CAS premium cabins may have been pulled back.

 

• as for video poker pay tables... they ain't great, but they are cruise ship playable. i don't see an appreciable difference among all the VP paytables on all the cruise lines, but i haven't cruised every line. while cruising, i'm typically playing multi-line and UX games, which can smooth the variance and mitigate the paytable... if i'm lucky. if i'm gonna play a bit here and there to keep my offers coming, i'd choose to play VP, where i can control part of the outcome, rather than slots.

 

my comment about how "nobody would play" was really meant to suggest that nobody would return. like amusement parks, casinos are judged on a marketing sentiment that factors in how likely a customer is to return for another visit, another cruise. if people see nobody winning, if they themselves don't experience a reasonable "time on device" for their spend, they are unlikely to return. nobody has a reasonable expectation of walking off the ship a winner, but they do want to get value for their money.  if they don't, they won't come back. as for being a captive audience, i mentioned that in my post. it only goes so far, however. repeated exposure without sufficient "time on device" will lead people to keep their wallets sealed. 

 

i was also a seven stars player with CZR for more than a decade, but have given it up since eldorado took over (due to severe reductions in comps, gifts, rewards and slot play). the "free" balcony cruise benefit from CZR is what got me to return to NCL after a long absence. like you, i've spent a lot of time in casinos, on land and at sea. apart from their ridiculous administrative fee, NCL still provides good value to me and i'll continue to sail.

[angalyse]

Wow.  This is a really great realistic response without the wozy me cry baby sediment 

[freebirds80]

10 hours ago, UKstages said:

 

i agree with much of what you say here, as well. we do have a slightly different focus when expressing similar concepts, though. i believe there is indeed an overall lower payout on cruise ships...

UKstage, 

 

Thank you for taking the time to write a thoughtful and concise reply. 

 

The main point of my post is, and as you also mentioned, there is an overall lower payout on all cruise ships vs. land-based casinos.

 

You're brave to play muti-line UX games with those odds.

 

I don't disagree with your points.  In fact, you touched on points outside my purview (ie. perceived reduction on NCL comps) since I have never played long-term onboard (after looking at the VP paytables), I do not know the comps offered onboard other than what people write. 

 

I also stay with NCL for the "free" (plus TT@L) cruises they give with status and the occasional Total Rewards play. You are correct about the Eldorado-Caesar merger, which has been a massive downgrade for the gambler. I had a host mention that the new management was cheap and would cut experienced hosts because younger hosts were more affordable. I was once offered a $200 gift card if I earned 5,000 tier points that day. I just laughed. The expected loss wasn't worth it, and the new management doesn't get it. I guess they have to pay that debt somehow. 

 

[aubreyc1988]

I have basically given up on NCL CAS, given what they give players for their play. Get much better treatment with RCI Casino Royale. I'd sail NCL again in the future, but their casino program sucks and I won't really be participating in it. 

[texasreb]

My post from yesterday did not post ? I don't recall all of it. We sail on Allure Mar 26. It is from a Royale casino offer. Balcony cabin with free drinks in casino. As for Caesars, etc. Eldorado has muchly ruined it. My wife and I have been Diam or Seven Star each  every year since at least 2008. When El Dorado took over. They fired hosts, closed the lounges. Cut back comps. Even just plain axed players. I know many that have quit Caesars. I and another fellow I know were both shutoff from anything late July 2020. I mean even emails. I had just earned Diam Plus in that covid year. He was nearly Elite. After 18 months they finally sent offers and emails. Now shut off again.

Well we shall see soon if Royale is still as good as it was. By that I mean April 1 starts a new year

[midgetcoach]

After  sailing on eleven cruises from different lines last year alone I stand by my November post NCL had the worst casino slot payout. Be warned.

[JGmf]

20 hours ago, UKstages said:

i agree with much of what you say here, as well. we do have a slightly different focus when expressing similar concepts, though. i believe there is indeed an overall lower payout on cruise ships, but i also believe the overall casino experience is pretty much the same on NCL ships as it is on other ships and the cruise ship casino experience is very similar to land-based casinos......

 

@UKstages

Thanks for the really thoughtful posting.  A realistic and enjoyable read. 

 

I mostly play table games, but am still looking for a not-too-volatile slot game on NCL that gives me some decent "time on device".  Still an elusive search for me.

 

As for winners, my mom was on a 7 day NCL cruise with us in January and won a 5 digit slot hand-pay on night 2.  NCL slow-played their payout, however, only providing a 1/4 of it that night under the rationale that "she'd keep on playing, probably win more, and they'd settle at the end". (I wasn't there to hear that bogus explanation myself).  They did settle on the last night (I accompanied her to the cage to be sure), but it was the oddest thing I've ever seen for a win in a casino, like they had to print more money down on deck 4 or something.

 

[IrieBajan54]

On my recent cruise, my cabin key card had "Casinos At Sea." printed on it. Didn't bother to question why, but it was odd because I'm not a gambler.

[WYB!]

So this wasn't me, but happened on the last day at sea (Feb 16th, 2023) aboard the Gem.

There were very few people in the casino at the time and I was playing a table game when I heard someone screaming.

At first I didn't think much off it until I noticed the head of the casino and security arrived and then I went to go check it out.

I think the couple playing the machine are also Canadian since there weren't as many forms to be filled out. ($26,694.40)

Safe travels,

- WYB

[JGmf]

1 minute ago, WYB! said:

I think the couple playing the machine are also Canadian since there weren't as many forms to be filled out. ($26,694.40)

 

Wow, that's a lot of pennies!  I see that they were only playing $1.88 a spin rather than the max, which I think is $8.88.  Is there something to be learned there?

[UKstages]

On 3/18/2023 at 5:51 PM, UKstages said:

regarding the perceived reduction in NCL comps... when offers are downgraded to inside from balcony, or to club balcony from haven. i have yet to see this myself...

 

following up on my own comment here...

 

i'm catching up on several months of old posts, as i've been away from CC for a few months and haven't sailed since last september. (i typically float in and out in the months preceding and following a cruise and i'm in the planning stages of my next adventure now.)

 

i have since seen a thread in the casino forum here on CC in which people state that there were indeed some changes made late last year... different algorithms or such or having to work through offered certificates or some such before play-based offers can be generated. so, it sounds like there have indeed been some changes! i haven't called yet to find out what my current offer is, but i can certainly report back if there is a downgrade. i do find this the most off-putting aspect of CAS... with every other cruise line, you know what your specific offer is and you can call and book it. CAS offers only tell you that you have a free room, but they don't tell you where until you call. there's a big difference between an inside cabin and a balcony and a haven suite.

 

On 3/19/2023 at 5:12 AM, freebirds80 said:

You're brave to play muti-line UX games with those odds.

 

perhaps.

 

walked away a loser on my last cruise, playing primarily 3 line UX quarters @ $7.50 a hand. i do think the UX multiplier generally smooths out the ride. but you still have to get lucky. i was in atlantic city last weekend and had a 12X multiplier on one line, held two to the royal and had two more royal cards pop in on the draw. wound up with a 12X flush, but that one card made a big difference and robbed me of my $12,000 payday. as for the odds, would i rather play a 9/6 machine than a 9/5 machine? sure, but, ultimately, what's far more important is what cards you are dealt and what cards you draw. if you add up ALL the flushes that i was "shortchanged" on, i would only have enough extra bankroll to play two or three more hands.

 

On 3/19/2023 at 2:04 PM, midgetcoach said:

After  sailing on eleven cruises from different lines last year alone I stand by my November post NCL had the worst casino slot payout. Be warned.

 

i completely understand. we can all relate. i don't doubt for a minute that you had a very bad run on NCL. i assume virtually nothing paid out. that's unfortunate. ugh!

 

but slot payouts are determined over the course of - literally - millions of spins.

 

how do you know NCL had the worst payout?

 

all you really know is that you did really poorly. i'm sure that's true. but that doesn't actually mean that NCL has "the worst slot payout." it just means that you yourself couldn't win a darn thing.

 

On 3/19/2023 at 2:46 PM, JGmf said:

Wow, that's a lot of pennies!  I see that they were only playing $1.88 a spin rather than the max, which I think is $8.88.  Is there something to be learned there?

 

yes... and no.

 

typically, the way these jackpots work is that - when reset - the computer picks a random dollar value, in this case it was apparently $26,694.40. let's say the reset value was $10,000. incrementally, every bet adds to that jackpot value. and when it reaches the chosen value, regardless of who is playing or the size of the bet, the jackpot will be paid. if it's a randomly awarded jackpot, it will be paid on the next spin. if the jackpot is part of a bonus event, it will be awarded on the next bonus. i don't know anything about that machine or how that game plays, but to advance the jackpot by 16K probably took eight or nine months.

 

so, when a game's rules state that you're eligible to win the jackpot at any bet level, that's true... but higher bets will advance you to the chosen jackpot value more quickly. that's different than saying higher bets have a greater likelihood of winning! placing a higher or max bet only matters if you're on the precipice of hitting that preset value. (but, of course, you'd never know what the preset value is.) the other factor to consider is whether or not the progressive jackpot is a "must hit by $XXX" jackpot. if you come across a jackpot that must hit by $500 and it's currently at $489... then, yes, max betting will get you to the preset value more quickly. you can see how much it will potentially "cost" you by tracking how much the meter goes up for each bet, then dividing that by the dollar value left and you will know the maximum number of spins required to win the "must hit by" progressive jackpot.

[Uff da]

I am pretty much where aubreyc1988 is at. Done with NCL CAS program. After hours in the casino and lots of money, I finally upgraded to Pearl. I thought this would help, but really, I was probably better off as Jade. It got me an additional 10% on my next cruise for a total of 20% off, which basically covers their bogus admin fees. Did I mention that I got a random 20% off coupon for Europe that is not casino related? Yeah... 
I may still sail them some since we're Platinum, but I'm not chasing casino comps. I have better offers elsewhere. As a matter of fact, I'm taking one of those other offers in May. It's too good to pass up. 

[UKstages]

On 3/22/2023 at 3:53 PM, UKstages said:

i haven't called yet to find out what my current offer is, but i can certainly report back if there is a downgrade.

 

following up again on my own post.

 

i did call CAS... got a random agent out of florida at about 8 PM ET. usually when i call at night, i get an arizona-based agent. (i do have a phoenix-based CAS consultant that i have used in the past and have been happy with, but she's usually more of a go-to when i'm ready to book.) i do tend to find the AZ agents less jaded and more knowledgeable. but this guy seemed pretty smart and savvy.

 

he took a good three or four minutes to review my account and my offers. he said i had nine different offers, including tournament offers, with travel on some permitted through april, 2024. it appears as if my offers have been downgraded in one regard... but also simultaneously upgraded. i'm now up to a "free" twelve day cruise, whereas, formerly, i was only eligible for a ten day cruise. but i'm no longer getting haven comped... i'm getting club balcony suites, which, as we know, are not really suites at all. the only exclusions (for me), as expected, are hawaii and viva. prima is included, but i think that has been the case for awhile. all of europe is now included. i used to have mediterranean cruises excluded and no balconies on alaska cruises.

 

he also told me something i had never heard before and which i seriously doubt is true. he said NCL looks at your play during the last three years to determine offers. most land-based casinos i know look at your last three to six visits (and most ignore your worst trip among them).  it was just odd the way he expressed it... i can maybe see them looking at all the cruises you made in the last three years and then dividing by the total number of cruises to calculate actual win/loss and ADT and other metrics. but three years of data could be unwieldy for some players. and you really only need three or four cruises at most. and wouldn't it be better to have those be recent trips? (what have you done for me lately? they really want to look at three years of data? ) saying they look at three years of data (and not actual cruises) implies that they are averaging calendar year activity, and not average daily theoreticals, which would place most people at a disadvantage for the last three years due to a long covid shutdown. i found that puzzling.

 

i asked about upgrading to haven and whether - as a solo CAS guest - i would be charged twice for the upgrade, as if there were two passengers, the same way the regular online upgrade bidding process works. and then he told me something else i had never heard: ruby players (and higher) can upgrade as a solo guest and only pay for a solo upgrade. if true, and he insisted that it was, that's a pretty good unpublished tier benefit. i hit ruby on my last cruise and so i have no prior experience traveling as a ruby player. anybody else ever hear of this 1X upgrade fee benefit for solo CAS guests?

[angalyse]

All in all, I take this as a plus, Im glad to see the Prima is in play I really wanna check out this new class.  How long did you have this guy on the phone for to get all this information?  lol

[BirdTravels]

30 minutes ago, UKstages said:

and then he told me something else i had never heard: ruby players (and higher) can upgrade as a solo guest and only pay for a solo upgrade. if true, and he insisted that it was, that's a pretty good unpublished tier benefit. i hit ruby on my last cruise and so i have no prior experience traveling as a ruby player. anybody else ever hear of this 1X upgrade fee benefit for solo CAS guests?

Ruby single supplement upgrades for solo cruisers have always been around. For a while last year, they were not honoring them. But, most of the newbie agents have no clue and you have to get them to go and ask about it, then a supervisor needs to go in and do the actual upgrade so you only get charged once. 

 

As a Ruby, you will also get the black Ultra drink card getting you almost anything at the casino bar. 

As a Ruby, you will get your $400 OBC

As a Ruby, you will get your 3 treats from the casino (sign up with the host). You can request chocolates, cheeses, or... just ask for 3 bottles of wine versus more food. 

[UKstages]

1 minute ago, angalyse said:

How long did you have this guy on the phone for to get all this information?

 

maybe seven or eight minutes.

 

he followed up with an email - which i've received from other CAS agents - with his direct phone number and an invitation to book with him in the future.

 

35 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

As a Ruby, you will also get...

 

thanks!

[drumming cruisers]

3 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Ruby single supplement upgrades for solo cruisers have always been around. For a while last year, they were not honoring them. But, most of the newbie agents have no clue and you have to get them to go and ask about it, then a supervisor needs to go in and do the actual upgrade so you only get charged once. 

 

As a Ruby, you will also get the black Ultra drink card getting you almost anything at the casino bar. 

As a Ruby, you will get your $400 OBC

As a Ruby, you will get your 3 treats from the casino (sign up with the host). You can request chocolates, cheeses, or... just ask for 3 bottles of wine versus more food. 

Where on MYNCL does it show my CAS status? I was Ruby last year on 2 cruises we went on, and Casino host came to me with a book of 3 choices of treats. I think we received $550 OBC from CAS.

 

Thanks