Cruise Directors are not trying to win over millennials

[CRUISEFAN0001]

12 minutes ago, rbschultz said:

 

But you did mention it... Or perhaps employers actually investing in employees would make them stay. For example at my company they offer almost nothing in terms of career advancement and trainings. 

Having worked for 2 fortune 500 companies with thousands of millennials...the real world has proven that all the investment in their training, experience, and career opportunities has reaped a nominal impact according to a recent 3 year study - the average job longevity at those companies for millennials is 18.7 months. By the way - both companies are (appropriately) on the list of the 100 best places to work in America. 

 

So to avoid further going down the off-topic tangent road...the whole point is that there is a drastic change in the value system of this particular generation, and conventional marketing simply won't work. The only successes in any way have come from including some form of "unique financial incentive that challenges budgets".

 

After hearing numerous "experts" at numerous conference sessions and seminars talk specifically about meeting the expectations of millennials,  the evidence appears to have a "good luck trying, nothing we can think of works" consensus. That includes some very large companies and organizations (and marketing gurus).

Edited February 20, 2019 by CRUISEFAN0001

[rbschultz]

Just now, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

Having worked for 2 fortune 500 companies with thousands of millennials...the real world has proven that all the investment in their training, experience, and career opportunities has reaped a nominal impact according to a recent 3 year study - the average job longevity at those companies for millennials is 18.7 months. By the way - both companies are (appropriately) on the list of the 100 best places to work in America. 

 

So to avoid further going down the off-topic tangent road...the whole point is that there is a drastic change in the value system of this particular generation, and conventional marketing simply won't work. The only successes in any way have come from including some form of "unique financial incentive that challenges budgets".

 

After hearing numerous "experts" at numerous conference sessions and seminars talk specifically about meeting the expectations of millennials,  the evidence appears to have a "good luck trying, nothing we can think of works" consensus. That includes some very large companies and organizations (and marketing gurus).

 

You must be a joy at parties.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

Just now, rbschultz said:

 

You must be a joy at parties.

Actually...I'm invited to many of them, and indeed am regularly told I am a joy to have there.

 

Thanks. 👍

 

My glass is not half empty, and its not half full...it's completely full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water - meaning I'm a realist and see what is there, not what I or anyone else wishes to see.

[Don'tNeedAName]

Wow, CRUISEFAN0001.  How ironic that the most myopic posts on this thread are from someone bombarding the thread with views that their generation seemingly does it right, and millennials are all wrong.  I am a 30-something millennial, own a home and have two kids, two dogs, two cars, and my wife and I have worked for the same company our entire careers.  I suppose I might fit your viewpoint of how things "should" be done.  However, you are so quick to jump in and call younger folks "snowflakes" for not holding your same worldview.

 

Take, for instance, your suggestion that millennials can't bear to book a cruise a year out because that is the longest they'll stay at a job.  Ignoring the fact that there is no reason for an employee to be loyal to a company that wouldn't be loyal to them, there are a lot less reasons for people to stick around at a job as they used to.  Many companies have cut benefits, and very few offer pensions any more, which would be a huge sticking point for staying long term.  But again, even ignoring that fact, let's look at this bit of research with respect to what might actually be causing a lack of millennial vacationers:

https://projecttimeoff.com/press-releases/new-survey-millennial-attitudes-making-americas-vacation-problem-worse/

 

I can already see you jumping to "millennial attitudes" in the title, but hopefully you'll read the findings.  Start with the first paragraph: "Millennial workers are the most likely generation to forfeit time off, even though they earn the least amount of vacation days. Millennials stay at work because they feel more fear and greater guilt about taking time away from the office than any other generation."  The study found that the biggest reason millennials leave vacation time on the table is that they "want to show complete dedication to the company and my job."  30% of millennials responded as such, while only 15% of boomers responded in kind.

 

It seems every generation thinks the ones following are getting it "wrong."  Making blanket statements about millennials being the "me me me" generation is intellectually dishonest and contrary to any polite discourse.  You bring up some good points about the continued use of "conventional marketing" methodologies, but when those points are interwoven between broad-brushed insults, they lose their meaning.  What's more, just because conventional marketing doesn't "work" with millennials shouldn't be a reason to question millennials.  It should encourage companies to continue innovating and finding out what does work.

[Zach1213]

15 minutes ago, Don'tNeedAName said:

Wow, CRUISEFAN0001.  How ironic that the most myopic posts on this thread are from someone bombarding the thread with views that their generation seemingly does it right, and millennials are all wrong.  I am a 30-something millennial, own a home and have two kids, two dogs, two cars, and my wife and I have worked for the same company our entire careers.  I suppose I might fit your viewpoint of how things "should" be done.  However, you are so quick to jump in and call younger folks "snowflakes" for not holding your same worldview.

 

Anyone who pulls out a cliched, politicized term like "snowflake" instantly makes me gloss over any point they're trying to make. I could tell right from the start that they had a negative view of our generation overall and couldn't be bothered to read much beyond that. BTW, I'm same boat as you - mid-30s, successful, hard working, only had two jobs in my 13 years out of college, nice house, nice new cars...no kids, but that's a whole different story.

[UnorigionalName]

I am always amused at the anectodal "evidence" people on the forum depend on.  I think the real statistics might surprise a lot of people.

 

https://cruising.org/-/media/research-updates/research/consumer-research/2018-clia-travel-report.pdf

 

Millenials cruise and they spend money.  If you don't see them, it's because market segmentation worked.  You are doing your thing and enjoying it and they are doing their thing and enjoying it.

 

Back to the original topic of the thread, I think the younger cruisers are less interested in entertainment than the traditional cruisers.  I think it's a calculated trade off.  They don't want to lose all the traditional cruisers either so this is a way they can cater to both groups without alienating the other.  Focus a lot of the decor and food and experiences to things millenials might like, and retain the standard shows and routines that traditional cruisers like.  Like Richard Branson said, I don't think a lot of people in the millenial age group are interested in watered down broadway shows. 

 

It's like people here don't think market research and focus groups are a thing.  That just because they consume something they become experts in delivering it?  It would be like me trying to argue that I'm an expert at the hub and spoke model vs. point to point just because I ride planes. 

 

1 hour ago, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

Holding down a job and moving from job to job every 18 months (go look up some statistics on this) are entirely different things.

 

Sticks and stones....your "rubbish" is many others' reality. I love watching folks wearing earphones as they walk around...especially at airports...it's quite entertaining when they walk right into a wall or post. 

 

As to jobs, this is the new status quo.  Multiple studies show that the more times you switch jobs, the higher your end salary.  It's one of the big factors in the gender pay gap.  Companies these days prefer not to give raises to employees anymore.  It's like the new modus operandi to get a new job that's the raise instead of the company actually giving a raise.  It's a different corporate culture than previously.  As to which is better, which is worse... how do you define better?

Edited February 20, 2019 by UnorigionalName

[Biker19]

 

Almost there?

[CRUISEFAN0001]

22 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

I am always amused at the anectodal "evidence" people on the forum depend on.  I think the real statistics might surprise a lot of people.

 

Millenials cruise and they spend money. 

 

As to jobs, this is the new status quo.  Companies these days prefer not to give raises to employees anymore. 

 

As to which is better, which is worse... how do you define better?

1) Empirical data collected directly from millennials and employment demographic data of thousands of employees working for Fortune 500 companies is NOT anecdotal.

2) Everyone spends money. Why and how they spend are the key marketing-oriented variances...ergo the topic at hand...how do you market to them (differently) and is there an ROI to do so.

3) Nothing could be further from reality. Companies regularly give raises...in fact larger companies budget and deploy the raises as part of their annual compensation & review program.

4) This is a classic do you move the mountain to the people or the people to the mountain question. Which is better? Another alternative is find other people or another mountain.

 

Happy Sailing.

 

[CRUISEFAN0001]

19 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

 

Almost there?

Pretty much so.  The answer to the original topic is....TBD.

 

[HBE4]

1 hour ago, Biker19 said:

 

Almost there?

 

Almost.  Final thoughts on the role of Cruise Directors 

 

Back in the day of The Love Boat (think of Julie as Cruise director) where the smaller ships carried between 800-1,500 passengers and had far fewer entertainment options, the cruise director would have far more face time with the passengers and therefore had a much more impact on their enjoyment. I've heard stories of how the cruise director would mingle with the passengers, introducing himself, shaking hands, and learning their names.

 

Now with the 6,000 passenger ships and half a dozen things happening at the same time, the cruise director has faded more into the background. His impact is far less felt by passengers today, hence most people not caring who the cruise director is as long as they're enjoying themselves.

[Iamcruzin]

On 2/19/2019 at 6:09 PM, CruisingJoe09 said:

This isn't about millennials being the "me me me" generation. This is about customers who have spent well-earned money on a cruise which Royal has marketed towards people of their generation. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to have particular expectations.

 

I'm not saying that the world revolves around millennials, but a cruise line like Royal is one which tends to appeal to a younger market and markets itself as such, so customers should expect the experience that they have been advertised. It's not like anyone is wanting changes to take place on one of the sister companies such as Azamara or Silversea which are more geared to an older clientele.

Every ad I see for Royal Caribbean is geared towards  young families (millennials) and Caribbean itineraries on the Mega ships. There is nothing in those ads that would would require a cruise director to arrange. The only cruise director groupies I know are right here on cruise critic and they seem to know which ones meet their entertainment needs. I would bet that those few probably book a cruise based on who the cruise director will be for a particular sailing. There have been many threads over the years asking who the cruise director will be for a particular sailing. These ships are so large and have so many features I don't know how people can even find a cruise director among 5000 passengers.

[Iamcruzin]

20 hours ago, HBE4 said:

 

I'm in my early-to-mid 50's and everything about this appeals to me. Well, maybe not the free wi-fi.  But love the idea of all-night food, different parties, no upcharge, etc.

 

Look's like I'll be the old guy on this cruise line.....which is a different change of pace from always being one of the younger ones Bordon.

I pushing 60 and that line appeals to me as well. The only down side is that the itineraries are too short and the L shape couch/bed is not a selling point. If I wanted to hide in my room I would stay home. However I have two millennials still living at home and if they didn't have to use the bathroom every now and then or go to work they would never leave their room so I can see how the couch/ bed would appeal to them.

[Iamcruzin]

18 hours ago, rbschultz said:

I'm not sure what the issue is with moving jobs every few years as @CRUISEFAN0001 would like to make me think it is. Companies aren't catering to people staying 30+ years anymore. They pay less, work the new employees into the ground, and then the employees move on. It isn't just millenials either. My current company has lost plenty of 40+ year olds 1-2 years after hire date. It is the nature of how business has changed. The days of picking a company and riding it until retirement has been over for years sorry you're not with the times.

So true. Nobody (unless you are a city-state or federal employee) is retiring with a gold watch for 50yrs of service and a pension anymore. 

This goes hand and hand with the idea that you ride out the same cruise line for 30 yrs to reach top tier only to complain that your benefits are fading. I think programs like the key are geared to attract millennials because it's instant gratification. What's the difference if you spend money on multiple sailings to achieve the benefits or just pay up front?

[John&LaLa]

16 hours ago, HBE4 said:

 

Almost.  Final thoughts on the role of Cruise Directors 

 

Back in the day of The Love Boat (think of Julie as Cruise director) where the smaller ships carried between 800-1,500 passengers and had far fewer entertainment options, the cruise director would have far more face time with the passengers and therefore had a much more impact on their enjoyment. I've heard stories of how the cruise director would mingle with the passengers, introducing himself, shaking hands, and learning their names.

 

Now with the 6,000 passenger ships and half a dozen things happening at the same time, the cruise director has faded more into the background. His impact is far less felt by passengers today, hence most people not caring who the cruise director is as long as they're enjoying themselves.

 

Currently on Oasis with 6,000 close friends.  Only seen CD once, and that was on stage

[rbschultz]

16 hours ago, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

3) Nothing could be further from reality. Companies regularly give raises...in fact larger companies budget and deploy the raises as part of their annual compensation & review program.

 

And I'm sure you consider QOL raises a "raise." 2.5% bumps to keep up with inflation are not raises, they're slaps in the face to the people that work their asses off for the year. Thats all I've gotten for the past 2 years even with exceptional job performance reviews. 

 

The fact that you speak of Fortune 500 companies like that's the norm for a high percentage of the US workforce (that number is 17.5% btw) is ridiculous to me. 

[CRUISEFAN0001]

1 hour ago, rbschultz said:

 

And I'm sure you consider QOL raises a "raise." 2.5% bumps to keep up with inflation are not raises, they're slaps in the face to the people that work their asses off for the year. Thats all I've gotten for the past 2 years even with exceptional job performance reviews. 

 

The fact that you speak of Fortune 500 companies like that's the norm for a high percentage of the US workforce (that number is 17.5% btw) is ridiculous to me. 

Wrong.  We're talking merit raises.  It's a budgeted item with many companies. The fact that you exclude companies with tens of thousands of employees using this kind of this merit-based (as opposed to entitled-based) system is ridiculous to me - and likely many others.

 

So on topic - let the CD's be themselves. They have their assignments, which on larger ships are daunting - it's their own personalities that make them passenger favorites. No person can make all of the people happy all of the time - that's a myth at minimum. Perhaps one experimental "millennial" cruise (with plenty of specific cruise features) would be a consideration if any cruise-line was serious about target-marketing.

 

Adding in a layer to cater to a specific demographic segment can only be justified if there is a clear and validated purpose, which has yet to be accomplished.

Edited February 21, 2019 by CRUISEFAN0001

[rbschultz]

Just now, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

Wrong.  We're talking merit raises.  It's a budgeted item with many companies. The fact that you exclude companies with tens of thousands of employees using this kind of this merit-based (as opposed to entitled-based) system is ridiculous to me - and likely many others.

 

My company call my 2.5% raise "merit-based"

[CRUISEFAN0001]

Just now, rbschultz said:

 

My company call my 2.5% raise "merit-based"

perhaps its time to find another employer, line of work, or career.

[xpcdoojk]

On 2/13/2019 at 6:17 PM, John&LaLa said:

The CD ranks about 200th on my list of things I look forward to. 

 

That high?  

 

JC

[rbschultz]

Just now, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

perhaps its time to find another employer, line of work, or career.

 

But then I'd be falling into your millenial job hopper category, and according to you that's not how you're supposed to live. My occupation is Manufacturing/Process Engineer and it is in general a very stable career choice thank you very much. 

[A&L_Ont]

2 minutes ago, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

perhaps its time to find another employer, line of work, or career.

 

Perhaps that explains the 18 months for some people.

 

[CRUISEFAN0001]

19 hours ago, Don'tNeedAName said:

Wow, CRUISEFAN0001.  How ironic that the most myopic posts on this thread are from someone bombarding the thread with views that their generation seemingly does it right, and millennials are all wrong.  I am a 30-something millennial, own a home and have two kids, two dogs, two cars, and my wife and I have worked for the same company our entire careers.

Exceptions to every rule. My own millennials are as well.

 

WOW - myopic - that's a big word for some folks.

 

Since no one has yet proven there is any financial or business benefit to cater to this population segment based on age demographic alone, we're all still floating along on opinions, mine being no more or less than yours.

 

Happy sailing.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

6 minutes ago, rbschultz said:

 

But then I'd be falling into your millenial job hopper category, and according to you that's not how you're supposed to live. My occupation is Manufacturing/Process Engineer and it is in general a very stable career choice thank you very much. 

Your complaint/situation is a specific employer practice. Not everyone follows those practices.

 

Kinda like no 2 cruise directors are alike.

Edited February 21, 2019 by CRUISEFAN0001

[rbschultz]

Just now, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

Your complaint/situation is a specific employer practice. Not everyone follows those practices.

 

It is the state of business now. MOST companies follow this practice. Your Fortune 500 and tens-of-thousands of employee companies don't represent the large majority of the US workforce. If most companies followed the large merit-based raise practice we'd see a larger than 4% wage growth YOY. 

[HBE4]

2 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

I pushing 60 and that line appeals to me as well. The only down side is that the itineraries are too short and the L shape couch/bed is not a selling point. If I wanted to hide in my room I would stay home. However I have two millennials still living at home and if they didn't have to use the bathroom every now and then or go to work they would never leave their room so I can see how the couch/ bed would appeal to them.

 

Funny thing. Every time I go to Atlantic City or Foxwoods, there is always several groups of "younger people" partying in their hotel rooms all night long.  I don't get it. Why spend hundred's of dollars to hang out in a hotel room? Why not just stay home & party in their own bedrooms?

 

I think you might have answered my own question. It never occurred to me that many of them might still be living with their parents.  Still, with the plethora of bars and clubs available downstairs, it's baffling....