O Air Question

[bbtondo]

I have booked my first O cruise on Riviera next Spring with included air with the $199 prem econ upgrade roundtrip for DH and me.  I have been looking at current plane routes, prices, planes, etc to get an idea of what might be available when the airline airfare schedules come out for Spring air bookings. I have a very good idea of the airline and flights I want. I've also asked questions on CC cruise air forum and have gotten great information.

 

My question is:  Which is better:

 

Wait until 270 days before my cruise use air deviation and discuss options with Oceania. 

 

or

 

Book my own air when the airline flight schedules come out probably earlier than 270 days out. Bird in the hand, control over seat assignments...

 

I'm concerned that if I wait for my TA to talk to O's air deviation department, O will want more money for the flights I want vs me booking myself earlier  (after all, they are in the business to make $$). Or would I get a better deal with O  since I paid for the $199 prem econ upgrade?

 

Thanks all for your thoughts!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[StanandJim]

23 minutes ago, bbtondo said:

I have booked my first O cruise on Riviera next Spring with included air with the $199 prem econ upgrade roundtrip for DH and me.  I have been looking at current plane routes, prices, planes, etc to get an idea of what might be available when the airline airfare schedules come out for Spring air bookings. I have a very good idea of the airline and flights I want. I've also asked questions on CC cruise air forum and have gotten great information.

 

My question is:  Which is better:

 

Wait until 270 days before my cruise use air deviation and discuss options with Oceania. 

 

or

 

Book my own air when the airline flight schedules come out probably earlier than 270 days out. Bird in the hand, control over seat assignments...

 

I'm concerned that if I wait for my TA to talk to O's air deviation department, O will want more money for the flights I want vs me booking myself earlier  (after all, they are in the business to make $$). Or would I get a better deal with O  since I paid for the $199 prem econ upgrade?

 

Thanks all for your thoughts!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everything that you or Oceania does, regarding the Air arrangements will be controlled by availability of seats on the plane.  Prices can be quixotic, so I'm always in favor of booking early.  

[rallydave]

18 minutes ago, bbtondo said:

I have booked my first O cruise on Riviera next Spring with included air with the $199 prem econ upgrade roundtrip for DH and me.  I have been looking at current plane routes, prices, planes, etc to get an idea of what might be available when the airline airfare schedules come out for Spring air bookings. I have a very good idea of the airline and flights I want. I've also asked questions on CC cruise air forum and have gotten great information.

 

My question is:  Which is better:

 

Wait until 270 days before my cruise use air deviation and discuss options with Oceania. 

 

or

 

Book my own air when the airline flight schedules come out probably earlier than 270 days out. Bird in the hand, control over seat assignments...

 

I'm concerned that if I wait for my TA to talk to O's air deviation department, O will want more money for the flights I want vs me booking myself earlier  (after all, they are in the business to make $$). Or would I get a better deal with O  since I paid for the $199 prem econ upgrade?

 

Thanks all for your thoughts!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really no way to know which will be better until you have all of the information.  Flights for domestic carriers are out 330 or 331 prior to departure date while for foreign airlines some have flights available near 365 days so perhaps your flights are now available depending on when in the spring you are traveling.  One issue you may have is for booking a round trip flights both ways need to be available so depends on length of your cruise.  O air desk will not talk to your TA until the 270 day mark for your departure.

 

Try to have your paid flight info ready to go at the 270 day mark so you can quickly decide.  Good luck.

[pinotlover]

It’s not an either or question! It’s a Both.

 

We always Book with the Air and then watch ita Matrix for sales on the route. If a good deal comes along, we jump on it. If not, at the 270 day opening window, we go to O Air ( via our Travel Agent) and see what they can do.

 

Then the option is still Both. We can take the O Air option, or pass and continue to watch the Matrix for sales. If none comes along by 180 days, we go back and ask O Air again.

[bbtondo]

Thank you everyone for the great ideas.

 

Stan:  I'm leaning towards booking early on my own if the price is acceptable to me.

 

RallyDave: Flights are not available to book yet.  Been watching and booking "dummy" flights for various months to get an idea of price, planes, nonstop, connect, etc.  So you're advising to wait until the 270 days and talk to O.  I'm just concerned if I see an acceptable price before that, I might lose what I really wanted or be stuck with O's higher price.  I know it's a risk...

 

Pinotlover:  Great advice!  If I see a deal before 270 days, jump on it and book myself.  If I don't see a deal and it's at the 270 mark, talk to O. My thought is if I see the flights I want either lower than O's price or the same, I should book on my own.

 

Here's more details on my flight that I've already posted under the cruise air forum:

 

I'll be traveling MIA to BCN then FCO to MIA end of April 2020 to beginning of May 2020.  Currently only ONE NONSTOP exits on AA MIA to BCN.  Coming home from FCO I'll connect.  Been looking at multi city trips.  Since O has relationships with the airlines and I added the prem econ upgrade, wondering if it may be cheaper with them?  Or is that just wishful thinking?  Anyone have any experience booking O air prem econ and getting a better price than booking on own?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rallydave]

23 minutes ago, bbtondo said:

Thank you everyone for the great ideas.

 

Stan:  I'm leaning towards booking early on my own if the price is acceptable to me.

 

RallyDave: Flights are not available to book yet.  Been watching and booking "dummy" flights for various months to get an idea of price, planes, nonstop, connect, etc.  So you're advising to wait until the 270 days and talk to O.  I'm just concerned if I see an acceptable price before that, I might lose what I really wanted or be stuck with O's higher price.  I know it's a risk...

 

Pinotlover:  Great advice!  If I see a deal before 270 days, jump on it and book myself.  If I don't see a deal and it's at the 270 mark, talk to O. My thought is if I see the flights I want either lower than O's price or the same, I should book on my own.

 

Here's more details on my flight that I've already posted under the cruise air forum:

 

I'll be traveling MIA to BCN then FCO to MIA end of April 2020 to beginning of May 2020.  Currently only ONE NONSTOP exits on AA MIA to BCN.  Coming home from FCO I'll connect.  Been looking at multi city trips.  Since O has relationships with the airlines and I added the prem econ upgrade, wondering if it may be cheaper with them?  Or is that just wishful thinking?  Anyone have any experience booking O air prem econ and getting a better price than booking on own?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your itinerary sheds some new light on your flights.  Should you purchased on your own  first of all you will be booking non-refundable to get the best price so there's another risk you would avoid by using O air and second, you are not doing a round trip but, an open jaw booking where your return is from a different airport.  That generally adds significant cost to your flights.  Suggest right now you use matrix.itasoftware.com which is the best search site and wil list all airlines for your itinerary.

 

You cannot book there but, it has all the pricing.  Pretend book a round trip to Barcelona then to Rome and then do the open jaw booking to Barcelona and return from Rome and you should see a huge increase in cost with the open jaw.  O Contract pricing should save you a lot even with the deviation fee and upcharge.  Open jaws are the scourge of travelers.who are not taking a true round trip.

 

As to my first post, if you  find a flight you are happy with before 270 days considering non-refund and open jaw, sure, go ahead and book it but, be careful as with Open Jaw and non-refundable, you are adding risk to anything you buy on your own.

[golfguyhhi]

bbtondo,

 

I just priced MIA-BCN (non-stop), multi-city FCO-MIA (connect in London) via British Airways.  The MIA-BCN leg is codeshare operated by American.  I got $1,968 for Premium Economy for the whole trip..

At $398 ($199 each way) for O's PE upgrade, unless O's air credit exceeds $1,600, I think O's deal looks like a winner.

[buggins0402]

10 minutes ago, golfguyhhi said:

bbtondo,

 

I just priced MIA-BCN (non-stop), multi-city FCO-MIA (connect in London) via British Airways.  The MIA-BCN leg is codeshare operated by American.  I got $1,968 for Premium Economy for the whole trip..

At $398 ($199 each way) for O's PE upgrade, unless O's air credit exceeds $1,600, I think O's deal looks like a winner.

If OP is going in a day or two early or staying a few days in Rome, they also need to add the cost of a deviation into the equation.

[pinotlover]

Golfguy;

 

Your Post has no meaning. You arbitrarily picked some fictional date for that routing and proclaimed the answer. His flights aren’t available yet, so you haven’t a clue as to what they may be when, or shortly after they actually open up! Airfares change sometimes daily, sometimes in the middle of the day on an algorithmic inventory adjustment. That’s why we tell people to watch ita Mattix and be prepared to jump if/ when a deal comes along.

 

On your personal examples you are effectively paying 1799+1899= $3698+ the value of your air credit for those tickets + deviation fees if they apply. $ I haven’t ever paid paid over $3200 for BC tickets to Europe and most typically not over $3K, and all those flights include 1st Class on US domestic legs.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by pinotlover

[Hawaiidan]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

Golfguy;

 

Your Post has no meaning. You arbitrarily picked some fictional date for that routing and proclaimed the answer. His flights aren’t available yet, so you haven’t a clue as to what they may be when, or shortly after they actually open up! Airfares change sometimes daily, sometimes in the middle of the day on an algorithmic inventory adjustment. That’s why we tell people to watch ita Mattix and be prepared to jump if/ when a deal comes along.

 

On your personal examples you are effectively paying 1799+1899= $3698+ the value of your air credit for those tickets + deviation fees if they apply. $ I haven’t ever paid paid over $3200 for BC tickets to Europe and most typically not over $3K, and all those flights include 1st Class on US domestic legs.

 

 

Huge, variance     You can not compare fares as they vary by hour of the day, day of the week  Month of the year.   As I noted elsewhere  fares can  swing as much as 200%.      I agree, I never paid over $2800 for rt business . Too  the quality of seats and the aircraft all need to be considered   Its a  lot of if-and -but"s The $199 up grade to business ( each way) could  be on some really lousy planes and airlines.     All Prem Econ is not equal...

The only time I took O's air was flying Hawaii to Tahiti   I was routed via LAX and O offered a up grade to Business for $900pp      Tahiti is a captive market... unlike  many others

[GeorgesGal]

The one time I used O's air, I'd opted for the premium economy.  BUT..... by the time O ticketed the flights, no PE seats available.  They are limited in number and had all been sold out prior to the 270 days out plan O works  by.  From that time on, I booked all of my flights myself, getting seats I wanted, and taking O's refund on air.

Edited May 4, 2019 by GeorgesGal

[bbtondo]

GeorgesGal:  Thank you for sharing your experience. That is my concern that I won't get the flights I want in prem econ.  I will add more details for anyone interested.

 

I'll be flying one day early and staying 3 days after the cruise.  I'll be flying MIA to BCN on a Monday and flying FCO to MIA 2 weeks later on a Monday.

 

The AA flight nonstop MIA to BCN is on a Boeing 777.  I've read that Prem Econ on this AA plane is very nice.  It is a small section of the plane with limited seats.

 

The AA flights that I've been looking at from FCO to MIA connects either in PHL or JFK.  There are other connection stops in MAD and LHR, but I feel comfortable connecting in the US.  I'm originally from NY and feel OK at JFK.  The flight connecting through PHL is on AA airbus330 and the connection flight through JFK is the Boeing 777 both on prem econ.

 

After doing some multi city dummy flights in March 2020 Monday to Monday on a multi city trip on AA.com.  I found  prem econ for $2,500. for both of us to fly roundtrip.  Now I understand that this price may not be available when the flight schedules open for my Spring cruise.  I'm just trying to get an idea of costs so I can make a good decision.

 

Is this a good price?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pinotlover]

Watch ita matrix and catch a sale on PE around $1800 for that routing. $2500 is within about $300 of what BC sells for during an inventory adjustment. 

[bbtondo]

Pinotlover: I've also been checking matrix per your advice and will watch.  Great tip!  

 

So, you're saying that if I catch a sale that I could get flights in PE for $1800 pp, $3600 per couple for roundtrip?  Or are you saying that $1800 is per couple roundtrip in PE?   I found flights on American for around $2500 per couple roundtrip in PE.  Am I misunderstanding?

[LHT28]

Just now, GeorgesGal said:

The one time I used O's air, I'd opted for the premium economy.  BUT..... by the time O ticketed the flights, no PE seats available.  They are limited in number and had all been sold out prior to the 270 days out plan O works  by.  From that time on, I booked all of my flights myself, getting seats I wanted, and taking O's refund on air.

That does not sound right

I booked  my April cruise in July & opted for PE from LHR

I got  PE seats & TA booked the specific seat numbers for us

Yes they do not ticket  them until later but if you asked for PE seats early & they  said they were available  you should have got them

 

When did you book the PE option?

 

[buggins0402]

51 minutes ago, bbtondo said:

Pinotlover: I've also been checking matrix per your advice and will watch.  Great tip!  

 

So, you're saying that if I catch a sale that I could get flights in PE for $1800 pp, $3600 per couple for roundtrip?  Or are you saying that $1800 is per couple roundtrip in PE?   I found flights on American for around $2500 per couple roundtrip in PE.  Am I misunderstanding?

$1250 pp would be a very good price for true PE. What months are you doing dummy bookings? I don’t know about PE specifically, but prices for economy usually jump when the weather warms up.  

[bbtondo]

Buggins:  My dummy booking I did a week ago on AA leaving 3/2/2020 MIA to BCN Nonstop on a Boeing 777 PE and returning on AA 3/16/2020 FCO to MIA connecting in PHL on Boeing 777 PE $2,502 per couple round trip.  It's a true PE on a 777.

 

Yes, I realize that's for March and I'd be looking at end of April returning beginning of May 2020.  I'm thinking if I can get this price for my actual dates when the airfare schedules come out I should grab it.  This is my first trip to Europe and I'm not familiar with the air prices at all. What do you think?

 

Thanks!

[FlyerTalker]

With all this discussion, it's good to try to get a handle on just what "premium economy" means in this situation.

 

Is it true premium economy, which involves different seats and service than regular economy, or is it an incorrect shorthand for the kinds of "economy plus" type seating that generally involves little more than some extra legroom?  Unless you know what the cruiseline means, you are flailing with incomplete definition.

 

Also, note that not all carriers have a true PE product.  Even the ones that do have it don't offer it on all aircraft and routes.  For example, virtually all intra-Europe flights will not have PE.  Ditto with USA domestic.

 

Read the fine print on the offer VERY carefully.  Then read again to be sure of what is being offered.

[bbtondo]

FlyerTalker:  I have researched AA PE on the 772-777 config 2-4-2 in separate cabin with 3 rows and AA PE on An Airbus A330 config 2-3-2 in separate cabin 3 rows.  I've looked at utube videos and reviews.  I like the larger seats, food, drinks and amenities.  Is this the true prem economy you're speaking of?  These are not regular econ seats in the econ section with drinks and better food ex: Delta comfort.

 

I agree that I don't know exactly what Oceania means by  PE.  The cost of the flights if I go through O is:  $1,800 plus $800 for PE plus $350 for air deviation, equals $2,950 per couple roundtrip.  And, I may have to pay even more to get the flights I want with a possible upcharge after speaking to the air deviation dept.  I'm just not too comfortable with these unknowns,

 

On Tuesday April 23rd the flights I mentioned above in my dummy booking in PE was $2500 per couple roundtrip.  Today, a Sunday, those same flights are $3,669.  

 

So I ask, should I grab these flights that I want when the flight schedules come out if I can get them for $2,500 to $3,000 per couple roundtrip.  I'm assuming this is a good price, but as I've mentioned, I'm not familiar with prices to Europe. FYI I will be getting travel insurance.

 

Thanks again everyone!

 

 

 

[GeorgesGal]

20 hours ago, LHT28 said:

That does not sound right

I booked  my April cruise in July & opted for PE from LHR

I got  PE seats & TA booked the specific seat numbers for us

Yes they do not ticket  them until later but if you asked for PE seats early & they  said they were available  you should have got them

 

When did you book the PE option?

 

 

I booked it at the same time I booked my cruise, about 10 months out!  And we didn't get them but O didn't charge the fee for them when they found the seats unavailable.

[rallydave]

2 minutes ago, GeorgesGal said:

a

I booked it at the same time I booked my cruise, about 10 months out!  And we didn't get them but O didn't charge the fee for them when they found the seats unavailable.

IMHO, this is on O and they should have gotten you the PE seats on a different airline.  Assume you did not deviate as deviated flights do get booked upon confirmation of the deviation.  In the case of when passengers don't deviate flights are not confirmed until approx. 75 days prior to the cruise and therein lies the rub in this case as that is oftentimes too late for PE availability.

 

Choosing the PE option when booking approx 300 days out (10) months, no excuse why your PE seats were not booked at that time.  How could they have charged you for something they would not deliver.  If no PE available they should have put you in Business at their cost.  This is no different than having a booked cabin not available after it being convirmed.  No valid excuse I can think of for this type of treatment.

 

Guess people booking the PE special pricing need to be aware of this and if not deviating make sure their flights are booked as soon as deposit is made.  Yes, cannot do this if booking more than a year out but, can make sure one flights are available, flights are booked.  Unfortunately YMMV. 

[GeorgesGal]

2 minutes ago, rallydave said:

IMHO, this is on O and they should have gotten you the PE seats on a different airline.  Assume you did not deviate as deviated flights do get booked upon confirmation of the deviation.  In the case of when passengers don't deviate flights are not confirmed until approx. 75 days prior to the cruise and therein lies the rub in this case as that is oftentimes too late for PE availability.

 

Choosing the PE option when booking approx 300 days out (10) months, no excuse why your PE seats were not booked at that time.  How could they have charged you for something they would not deliver.  If no PE available they should have put you in Business at their cost.  This is no different than having a booked cabin not available after it being convirmed.  No valid excuse I can think of for this type of treatment.

 

Guess people booking the PE special pricing need to be aware of this and if not deviating make sure their flights are booked as soon as deposit is made.  Yes, cannot do this if booking more than a year out but, can make sure one flights are available, flights are booked.  Unfortunately YMMV. 

 

We did deviate, arriving 4 days early and leaving about 10 days after the cruise.  Since this experience, we have never used O's air again; rather we do our own bookings, sometimes with frequent flyer miles.  Works out much better for us.

[rallydave]

9 minutes ago, GeorgesGal said:

 

We did deviate, arriving 4 days early and leaving about 10 days after the cruise.  Since this experience, we have never used O's air again; rather we do our own bookings, sometimes with frequent flyer miles.  Works out much better for us.

Thanks for the clarification.  Simply reinforces the no excuses.  What if no seats were available when the flight was booked??  Hope you got the deviation charges refunded as well as they didn't live up to your contracted flights and seating.

 

Know I have deviated on Regent (same air department) and my flights were immediately booked and I got the confirmation code and was able to choose my seats at the 270 day mark.  Appears either your booking fell thru the cracks or by the time they decided to book your flights the seats were gone or  costs were too high.

 

This should be a wakeup call to anyone using O air to make sure if you pay any additional charges for different seats or deviation that you make sure your flights are confirmed immediately and you have the confirmation codes so you can see your reservation on the airline site. 

[LHT28]

26 minutes ago, GeorgesGal said:

 

I booked it at the same time I booked my cruise, about 10 months out!  And we didn't get them but O didn't charge the fee for them when they found the seats unavailable.

That does seem odd that they did not hold  a seat for you

We did deviate on the return staying a few days longer  & my TA still was able to hold the seats  way back in Aug  for our April trip

Maybe you slipped through the cracks  which is not good either

 

[LHT28]

37 minutes ago, bbtondo said:

FlyerTalker:  I have researched AA PE on the 772-777 config 2-4-2 in separate cabin with 3 rows and AA PE on An Airbus A330 config 2-3-2 in separate cabin 3 rows.  I've looked at utube videos and reviews.  I like the larger seats, food, drinks and amenities.  Is this the true prem economy you're speaking of?  These are not regular econ seats in the econ section with drinks and better food ex: Delta comfort.

 

I am not sure now that some American carriers have PE seats  maybe O will be using them in the future  but before it was European carriers they used  KLM. LH, AF, BA  & AC  with true PE seating

Sounds like you are not on a cruise with the special PE seats for  cheaper pricing

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/special-offers/premium-economy-air/

 

It might be worth just asking  what flights they will give you with PE & Non stop if possible

then if you really want to fly AA  then ask for those

JMO