New ship called Rijndam and smaller ships stay for another 10 years

[eroller]

Somehow I don't see HAL moving forward with smaller ships.  They have tried to remain below the 100,000 gt threshold but a HAL ship over 100,000 gt would not surprise me.  Accountants love to see economy of scale which is easier to obtain with larger ships that are relatively similar to each other. 

 

A wonderful new relatively small ship being built is SPIRIT OF DISCOVERY for Saga Holidays.  This is a British company that specializes in vacations for those 50 and older.  I think HAL and Cunard regulars would find Saga quite attractive.  The new ship is the perfect size at 58,250 gt carrying 999 guests.  The ship design and decor looks stunning.  

 

More here:

https://travel.saga.co.uk/cruises/ocean/our-ships/spirit-of-discovery.aspx

[Hlitner]

New Build smaller vessels (under about 1200 passengers) just do not work for mass market lines but are still viable for the luxury lines or what we would call the semi-luxury lines such as "O" and Viking.  For HAL fans that love smaller vessels they will have to spend more money and try lines like Seabourn, Silverseas, etc.  MSC has had a lot of success with their ship within a ship concept called the "Yacht Club" and recently announced they are building 4 new "Yacht Club ships" that will likely be in the 1200 passenger.  What is interesting about MSC is that they will soon be operating nearly 30 ships all under a single brand, but those ships will range from 5400 passenger down to about 1200 passenger.  The smaller ships will be priced significantly higher then their mass market vessels and offer an entirely different level of service (something akin to what we now get in the Yacht Club).  But MSC is unique in the cruise industry as it continues to do everything under a single brand (MSC)...not to mention it is the only privately owned major cruise line.

 

But CCL prefers to play with brands rather than offer different classes within a single brand.  So one doubts we will ever see a new small ship under the HAL banner.

 

Hank

[eroller]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

New Build smaller vessels (under about 1200 passengers) just do not work for mass market lines but are still viable for the luxury lines or what we would call the semi-luxury lines such as "O" and Viking.  For HAL fans that love smaller vessels they will have to spend more money and try lines like Seabourn, Silverseas, etc.  MSC has had a lot of success with their ship within a ship concept called the "Yacht Club" and recently announced they are building 4 new "Yacht Club ships" that will likely be in the 1200 passenger.  What is interesting about MSC is that they will soon be operating nearly 30 ships all under a single brand, but those ships will range from 5400 passenger down to about 1200 passenger.  The smaller ships will be priced significantly higher then their mass market vessels and offer an entirely different level of service (something akin to what we now get in the Yacht Club).  But MSC is unique in the cruise industry as it continues to do everything under a single brand (MSC)...not to mention it is the only privately owned major cruise line.

 

But CCL prefers to play with brands rather than offer different classes within a single brand.  So one doubts we will ever see a new small ship under the HAL banner.

 

Hank

 

 

I sailed on MSC SEASIDE in the Yacht Club.  It was a really nice experience.  I've also sailed MSC in a regular cabin a couple times (MSC DIVINA and MSC OPERA).  I like experiencing different things, and MSC feel into that category.  My first MSC cruise was several years ago on OPERA before they got so big.  It was truly Italian back then, and reminded me a lot of the old Home Lines and Sitmar.  Times have changed and now MSC is huge, and employs an International staff and crew like most cruise lines.  No more groups of Italian officers in the bar/lounge smoking like crazy.  LOL.  I'm watching closely MSC's new "all -yacht club" cruise line.  They will finally have multiple brands and it will be branded separately from MSC Cruises.  

 

I agree about Carnival Corp. and HAL.  I don't see them designing and dedicating a small new build just for HAL.  It's just not practical.  The smallest new builds we will likely see within Carnival Corp are Seabourn.  Funny 35 years ago the Seabourn new builds would have been considered fairly large.  Today they are considered small ships.  

Edited May 11, 2019 by eroller

[Hlitner]

58 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

 

I sailed on MSC SEASIDE in the Yacht Club.  It was a really nice experience.  I've also sailed MSC in a regular cabin a couple times (MSC DIVINA and MSC OPERA).  I like experiencing different things, and MSC feel into that category.  My first MSC cruise was several years ago on OPERA before they got so big.  It was truly Italian back then, and reminded me a lot of the old Home Lines and Sitmar.  Times have changed and now MSC is huge, and employs an International staff and crew like most cruise lines.  No more groups of Italian officers in the bar/lounge smoking like crazy.  LOL.  I'm watching closely MSC's new "all -yacht club" cruise line.  They will finally have multiple brands and it will be branded separately from MSC Cruises.  

 

I agree about Carnival Corp. and HAL.  I don't see them designing and dedicating a small new build just for HAL.  It's just not practical.  The smallest new builds we will likely see within Carnival Corp are Seabourn.  Funny 35 years ago the Seabourn new builds would have been considered fairly large.  Today they are considered small ships.  

I know we are both getting off topic but interesting that you have heard that MSC will brand those 4 smaller YC ships as a separate brand.  The last we heard (December) a MSC Officer/friend expected it to be all one brand....MSC.  I questioned the wisdom of having a single brand, but he pointed out that the Aponte family (who owns MSC) likes the tradition of a single brand.  Consider that MSC Container ships and MSC Cruises both are called "MSC."   DW and I are really wondering if they can pull off a Yacht Club ship where everyone is treated alike and keep the mystique and elitism that is part of the YC experience.  Consider that now we can go to that little white tend to check-in....but that kind of thing gets lost when over 1000 passengers all have "priority."    Time will answer all the questions :).  This company is very innovative, so I guess we can expect something new and different from other cruise lines.

 

Hank

[Copper10-8]

Carnival Corp/HAL is not going to built a small-size ship, but don't be surprised if they'll be either internally transferring or obtaining such a ship from another line in order to replace the P-dam itineraries and keep her loyal followers happy campers

[Tampa Girl]

On 5/9/2019 at 6:58 PM, TAD2005 said:

I love the smaller ships, especially the "R" class.  But I wish HAL would get real and call a veranda cabin a veranda cabin and not a suite.   Once you add the "Suite" name the price jumps up.  The Vista Suites on the Rotterdam and Maasdam, if placed on the Westerdam (for example) would be considered regular veranda cabins, not suites.  

But I guess with the smaller ship, HAL still wants the same revenue per sailing as they get on a Vista class ship of a larger size.  On Rotterdam and Maasdam, there are insides, ocean views, lanai cabins, and then vista suites and Neptune suites.  No verandas with the associated lower prices.  The lanai cabins are nice but they don't hack it for being like a private veranda.  

 

Actually, aren't the veranda cabins on the larger ships somewhat smaller than the Vista Suites?  The Vista Suites are also considerably larger than the veranda cabins on many other lines, including Regent, Cunard, etc.  And the double Mariner days are worth the designation, with 4* being the most desirable, i.e. free laundry.  We are 20 days from 5*, and the only difference I have found is the two Pinnacle dinners.  Not a big deal, but there may be other advantages I have not yet found.

[kazu]

5 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Actually, aren't the veranda cabins on the larger ships somewhat smaller than the Vista Suites?  The Vista Suites are also considerably larger than the veranda cabins on many other lines, including Regent, Cunard, etc.  And the double Mariner days are worth the designation, with 4* being the most desirable, i.e. free laundry.  We are 20 days from 5*, and the only difference I have found is the two Pinnacle dinners.  Not a big deal, but there may be other advantages I have not yet found.

 

They are smaller.

 

And the verandahs on the R & S class ships (and Neptune Suites) are larger than the Vista class IME.

 

As to the 5* you reference, for me it’s no big deal other than being able to disembark when you want, the 2 PG dinners you mentioned, a thermo pool day and a Hands On ATK.  The ATK is nothing like what the old cooking class was and so far, they offered it on port days to 5*’s which means they know that few will come.  

5* to me, offers not much more than 4*.  I enjoyed the hands on under the old Culinary Food and Wine where we were then taken to the PG to enjoy the lunch we had worked on and the great tips we got as we learned.  The ATK to me is more watch and learn.  I learn by doing, not watching 😉 

 

But it’s a very subjective opinion 😉 

 

 

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

but don't be surprised if they'll be either internally transferring or obtaining such a ship from another line in order to replace the P-dam itineraries and keep her loyal followers happy campers

 

I will be surprised if this does not eventually happen.

[eroller]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 DW and I are really wondering if they can pull off a Yacht Club ship where everyone is treated alike and keep the mystique and elitism that is part of the YC experience.  Consider that now we can go to that little white tend to check-in....but that kind of thing gets lost when over 1000 passengers all have "priority."    Time will answer all the questions :).  This company is very innovative, so I guess we can expect something new and different from other cruise lines.

 

 

 

I have definitely heard it will be a subset brand.  It may have MSC in the name, but there will be something to distinguish it from just regular MSC.  Also its own unique marketing and senior leadership team.  At least that is what I've been told.  

 

I think 1000 pax is pushing the mark on luxury cruise travel, although Crystal does it.  I've sailed on luxury lines like Silversea and Seabourn and frankly they are quite superior to the ship within a ship concepts like the Yacht Club and NCL's Haven.  Something about the entire ship catering to a luxury market elevates the entire experience.  

 

The Yacht Club and Haven were great experiences, but they lacked the polish of the true luxury lines where that is all they do.  So it will be interesting to see how MSC elevates the Yacht Club experience on these new, smaller, all-inclusive ships.  It may even be a new sub-category within the industry.  Superior to Viking, Oceania, and Azamara but not quite up to Seabourn, Silversea, Regent, and Crystal.  Luxury-light? It will be interesting to see it evolve.   

Edited May 12, 2019 by eroller

[philbob84]

If they are thoughtful and disciplined they could replace Fantasy, R/S, and Sun class with a common hull designed with a modular approach. IE make the ship denser depending on where the line sits in the market. 

[Himself]

I find it hard to believe there will be no more builds after the RYNDAM.  I would not be surprised to see at least four Pinnacle Class ships. I would love to see at least one more Signature Class Ship.

[CruiserBruce]

9 minutes ago, Himself said:

I find it hard to believe there will be no more builds after the RYNDAM.  I would not be surprised to see at least four Pinnacle Class ships. I would love to see at least one more Signature Class Ship.

Who is saying there won't be any more builds after Ryndam? Of course there will be. We just don't know what they will look like. 

[rotjeknor]

It wouldn't surprise me if HAL would order a ship like the Viking ships from  Ficantieri. The shipyard has the designs, they could modify it to HAL tastes ( probably less luxurious than the Viking ships) and HAL doesn't have to go through the whole designing proces.

 

[Himself]

On 5/12/2019 at 10:17 PM, CruiserBruce said:

Who is saying there won't be any more builds after Ryndam? Of course there will be. We just don't know what they will look like. 

They will be a lot bigger and HAL will call them "mid-size."

[rkacruiser]

10 hours ago, rotjeknor said:

It wouldn't surprise me if HAL would order a ship like the Viking ships from  Ficantieri. The shipyard has the designs, they could modify it to HAL tastes ( probably less luxurious than the Viking ships) and HAL doesn't have to go through the whole designing proces.

 

 

An interesting idea as compared to my thinking that a Seabourn vessel could be modified to replace Prinsendam.  I had not thought of that.  Thanks for your post.