JUST OFF THE ZUIDERDAM--MY COMPLAINT LIST.........

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, oceanmom said:

 

I admit I live in the Pacific NW and see trees and mountains every day. But we cruise to Alaska every other year to see the water and no cooking/cleaning/laundry for a week or two and because we can drive to the ports from home. We also don't try to see everything in every port in one day and enjoy the history and hikes/walks. Works great for us, but not for everyone.

Interesting.  We spend part of the year living a few feet from the Ocean with perfect view.  So no reason to ever take a cruise since we see the ocean too many days.  And there is sure no reason to eat on a ship since we do that at  home. 

 

Hank

🙂

[Dunelm]

6 hours ago, Chuck said:

Hi Terry;  Thank You for your very warm and heartfelt post.  Yes, I did notice that there has been quite a bit of snarky and hyper sensitive posts.  I posted this mainly for people that do not cruise alot or maybe even first time cruisers.  People need to know what they are "getting themselves into".   I do not dislike HAL by any means. But there are certainly things they could improve upon by a very wide margin ALA: Lousy internet service, no computer room, horrible selection of TV channels,  Mass Chaos on Deck 9 at the Bistro on the Lido Deck (I really became disgusted with that one--Like Pigs at the Trough), Drink Package is a ripoff, etc etc.    And yes, the "average age" was probably between 75 and 80 so you need to prepare yourself mentally for that if you are not use to it.  Like I said it reminded me of a "Geriatric Woodstock--LOL".  

 

I think the phrase "Geriatric  Woodstock" is unkind.  Years ago, a neighbor would not allow us to throw her an 80th birthday party because, as she said "Eighty is nothing these days." We were living in another state, but flew back to attend her 100th birthday party.  I know folk in their eighties and nineties who have more vivacity than others in their fifties.  So, let's not stereotype, please.  People age in different ways, and that is okay.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Dunelm

[sail7seas]

On 9/29/2019 at 11:36 PM, mcrcruiser said:

Recommendation   you would probably love the Royal class of ships by Princess  .Best buffet of any main cruise line . Very fast internet speeds  ie 

I hope you are among  the very fortunate and one day  find you are   'old'.      Not everyone is so lucky,  There is only one alternative.      Either you continue to have  birthdays,  or you do not....

 

and one year at a time you grow older.   Sorry you got the cold or   flu that went around on the ship.  Surely if a ship full of children or anyone of any age had flu and colds, it would be just as contagious and your chance of catching  it would at best be the same or possibly worse.

 

 

 

 

And all that anger with a wine steward  

ab out   $l.00  ?    Huh?     Not to mention  he does not make the rules and is doing his job in the way he has been instructed.  He likely does not want  to lose that job  by  ignoring  the rules  because of your upset re:  $1.00  Don't get a beverage card if you do not approve the terms.   And IMO, don't blame the steward.NO  one told you?  When you bought the card, did you ask    the terms of the 'thing' you were buying?   You likely should have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by sail7seas

[mamaofami]

3 hours ago, sail7seas said:

"I hope you are among  the very fortunate and one day  find you are   'old'.      Not everyone is so lucky,  There is only one alternative.      Either you continue to have  birthdays,  or you do not...."

 

Quote

And if you are lucky enough to get older and need to use a cane, a scooter, walker, or wheelchair, Holland America will be happy to have you onboard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kevingastreich]

Sometimes the lines in the Lido are long...and sometimes they are not. It's just the way it is. Barging in front of others who have been standing there longer than you have is just plain rude. 

[sail7seas]

On 9/30/2019 at 5:54 PM, Dunelm said:

 

I think the phrase "Geriatric  Woodstock" is unkind.  Years ago, a neighbor would not allow us to throw her an 80th birthday party because, as she said "Eighty is nothing these days." We were living in another state, but flew back to attend her 100th birthday party.  I know folk in their eighties and nineties who have more vivacity than others in their fifties.  So, let's not stereotype, please.  People age in different ways, and that is okay.

Horror of horrors, you had   to share a large ship with persons 75 and 80 years  old.  Yikes    What next?  What nerve  they must have   to  think it was okay for  them to sail on a ship where    there were 'young uns' who did not particularly  welcome

them.

[avian777]

1 minute ago, sail7seas said:

Horror of horrors, you had   to share a large ship with persons 75 and 80 years  old.  Yikes    What next?  What nerve  they must have   to  think it was okay for  them to sail on a ship where    there were 'young uns' who did not particularly  welcome

them.

 👍👍👍  Spot on & well said, s7s!

[Aquahound]

15 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

Horror of horrors, you had   to share a large ship with persons 75 and 80 years  old.  Yikes    What next?  What nerve  they must have   to  think it was okay for  them to sail on a ship where    there were 'young uns' who did not particularly  welcome

them.

 

Huh?  The person you quoted was posting in support of older cruisers, not bashing them. 🤔

[Lunar Dragon]

Being able to find something or someone to be annoyed about is not unique to cruising or HAL.

Common courtesy goes a long way to diffuse situations.  Personally I think an ‘excuse me, the line is behind me’ or a ‘go ahead, I’m not in a hurry ‘ is preferable to listening to people get in an argument about the line.  There will always be rude people, but arguments rarely have an effect.  Sometimes it’s better to let it go.

 

Walking (or driving😀) around the ship on sea days when everyone is on board can be crowded, even on the smaller ships, but again, common courtesy and tolerance go a long way.   You may not be able to do anything about someone else’s reaction, but you can choose your own reaction and not stir up a conflict.

 

As to the ‘geriatric’ element on board, I am relatively young at 55 and started cruising in my early 40’s. I enjoy chatting to older passengers .   I have met many older couples with wonderful stories and I enjoy hearing about their lives.  When my daughter was a child, she had a great time and, as there were few children on board, was spoiled to death by all the attention she received from the older generation!   I much prefer that to being on a ship with the younger generation who rarely look up from their phones!

[davy jones]

On 9/29/2019 at 1:46 PM, Hlitner said:

Funny thing about the scooter issue.  I just (last few minutes) noticed another thread here on CC about the same topic and it tells a sad tale.

 

 

Hank

An irresponsible woman driving a scooter once ran into me.  She had consumed several drinks and was drinking one while driving the scooter with one hand.  She was also paying attention to her friend and not where she was going.  I was not hurt.

 

I do not blame the scooters or those who need them.  I blame the one irresponsible drunk who ran into me.  It's the same principle as blaming the drunk driver, and not cars or all drivers.

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 hours ago, Lunar Dragon said:

Being able to find something or someone to be annoyed about is not unique to cruising or HAL.

Common courtesy goes a long way to diffuse situations.  Personally I think an ‘excuse me, the line is behind me’ or a ‘go ahead, I’m not in a hurry ‘ is preferable to listening to people get in an argument about the line.  There will always be rude people, but arguments rarely have an effect.  Sometimes it’s better to let it go.

 

Walking (or driving😀) around the ship on sea days when everyone is on board can be crowded, even on the smaller ships, but again, common courtesy and tolerance go a long way.   You may not be able to do anything about someone else’s reaction, but you can choose your own reaction and not stir up a conflict.

 

As to the ‘geriatric’ element on board, I am relatively young at 55 and started cruising in my early 40’s. I enjoy chatting to older passengers .   I have met many older couples with wonderful stories and I enjoy hearing about their lives.  When my daughter was a child, she had a great time and, as there were few children on board, was spoiled to death by all the attention she received from the older generation!   I much prefer that to being on a ship with the younger generation who rarely look up from their phones!

 

Sadly, "common courtesy" is becoming a rare thing. A lot of people who cut into lines really are oblivious. Or maybe they're good actors. I'll say "excuse me, the end of the line is there" and point to the 3 or 4 people behind me, and the response is a "ohhh," and a surprised look in that direction. 

 

My solution to someone who is trying to beat others into an elevator is to block the door from closing (I do this anytime someone appears to be moving slowly) and say to the person ahead of me, "Go ahead, you were here before me." Sometimes it's enough to shame the pushy person into waiting his/her turn. 

 

I completely agree with your 'geriatric' comments. For years we sailed on QE2 and most passengers were considerably older than we were. We met so many interesting people and I soon realized that they weren't just older, they were more experienced.  Experienced in travels, in living, and also in knowing how to interact with others. One of the things I love about Cunard, even as it has attracted a younger average age, is the tradition of sharing tables at the buffet. It's like an unwritten law. If there's space at your table and someone asks "may I join you?' you don't say no. I've met all sorts of interesting people and shared a pleasant mealtime. Maybe I'll never see them again, but for that hour or whatever, I interacted with another living person, not a device.

 

 

[Chuck]

18 hours ago, sail7seas said:

I hope you are among  the very fortunate and one day  find you are   'old'.      Not everyone is so lucky,  There is only one alternative.      Either you continue to have  birthdays,  or you do not....

 

and one year at a time you grow older.   Sorry you got the cold or   flu that went around on the ship.  Surely if a ship full of children or anyone of any age had flu and colds, it would be just as contagious and your chance of catching  it would at best be the same or possibly worse.

 

 

 

 

And all that anger with a wine steward  

ab out   $l.00  ?    Huh?     Not to mention  he does not make the rules and is doing his job in the way he has been instructed.  He likely does not want  to lose that job  by  ignoring  the rules  because of your upset re:  $1.00  Don't get a beverage card if you do not approve the terms.   And IMO, don't blame the steward.NO  one told you?  When you bought the card, did you ask    the terms of the 'thing' you were buying?   You likely should have.

 

 

You couldn't be more wrong in your "assessment" of the situation.  There was NO ANGER with the wine steward or his supervisor.  I simply asked if I could pay the difference of a dollar.  I still think H A is way out of line how they do the drink package but thats ok as I just will never buy it again.  Not going to be that dumb again.  Fool me once "SHAME ON YOU".  Fool me twice shame on me.  Some of you folks out there need to lighten up with all the "Hair on Fire" comments.  I was trying to tell you about my experience and what I did not like and what I did like.  I spent over $12,000 on this 13 day experience if you count the hotel the night before, airfare, drink package and all the 9 HAL shore excursions.  Was it worth it?????    Not really.   Iam getting a little tired of all the crazy comments and attacks. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 hours ago, Chuck said:

You couldn't be more wrong in your "assessment" of the situation.  There was NO ANGER with the wine steward or his supervisor.  I simply asked if I could pay the difference of a dollar.  I still think H A is way out of line how they do the drink package but thats ok as I just will never buy it again.  Not going to be that dumb again.  Fool me once "SHAME ON YOU".  Fool me twice shame on me.  Some of you folks out there need to lighten up with all the "Hair on Fire" comments.  I was trying to tell you about my experience and what I did not like and what I did like.  I spent over $12,000 on this 13 day experience if you count the hotel the night before, airfare, drink package and all the 9 HAL shore excursions.  Was it worth it?????    Not really.   Iam getting a little tired of all the crazy comments and attacks. 

 

 

I don't know whose hair is supposedly on fire; mine isn't.  Perhaps there was NO ANGER at the wine steward, but your initial post was very angry at HAL. YOur subsequent posts (see above) sound angry, too. When a post reads like a rant, it's often a sign that the person's anger is the result of unreasonable expectations or mistakes that the person could have avoided.

 

You said you've sailed with HAL before, including within the past year. How did you not know the Lido was "stations" and not a continuous buffet/cafeteria line? How did you not know HAL's demographics? And since you sailed within the last year and had a preferred drink, how did you not know what that wine cost so that you could calculate the value of the beverage package? If you were considering the package, you could have done some research on your previous cruise.  I've never thought the beverage package worth it to me, but other people do find value in it. You aren't new to Cruise Critic. You could have come here to ask about it, plenty of experience with the various beverage packages here.

 

I'm sorry you were unhappy on your cruise. Perhaps another line with a different demographic will be more to your liking.

 

[Chuck]

Let me just add one thing to the person who said "And all that anger with a wine steward about $1.00-Huh?"   I don't know anything about you but first of all "respectfully"  my wife and I were not angry. Second, maybe you have never bought the drink package so "perhaps" you don't understand how it works.  The cap of $11 was fine with us but my wife really prefers "Moscato" which is by far her favorite.  HAL only offered "One Choice of Moscato" and it was priced at $12 which was a dollar over the limit.  I simply asked the nice folks that were in charge of the wine etc if I could pay the "Dollar Difference" which is a very natural and normal question to ask.  I was told NO they would have to charge me the full $12 for the Moscato and not the dollar difference.  Thats why I stated way back on page #1 that the "DRINK PACKAGE IS A RIPOFF".  Nothing complicated about it. By the way they only offered one kind of Moscato which there are dozens and dozens of domestic companies that make a very affordable Moscato so you see they could have offered it buy chose not too.  And to be brutally honest when I bought the package thru HAL they should have gone over the rules with me which THEY DID NOT DO.

[Chuck]

6 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I don't know whose hair is supposedly on fire; mine isn't.  Perhaps there was NO ANGER at the wine steward, but your initial post was very angry at HAL. YOur subsequent posts (see above) sound angry, too. When a post reads like a rant, it's often a sign that the person's anger is the result of unreasonable expectations or mistakes that the person could have avoided.

 

You said you've sailed with HAL before, including within the past year. How did you not know the Lido was "stations" and not a continuous buffet/cafeteria line? How did you not know HAL's demographics? And since you sailed within the last year and had a preferred drink, how did you not know what that wine cost so that you could calculate the value of the beverage package? If you were considering the package, you could have done some research on your previous cruise.  I've never thought the beverage package worth it to me, but other people do find value in it. You aren't new to Cruise Critic. You could have come here to ask about it, plenty of experience with the various beverage packages here.

 

I'm sorry you were unhappy on your cruise. Perhaps another line with a different demographic will be more to your liking.

 

Yes indeed when we cruise next there's a 98% chance it will NOT be with HAL.   Maybe in 2 or 3 years when the experience wears off we may look into a Viking.  I have heard good things about them.  Thank you for the comments and even the criticism.  I'm a big boy and I can handle it.  We did just fine overall.  I think as I may have said before it really was just the "Combination of things' that wear on you.  I won't name them all off again as I've gone over them adnauseam.  But in all "fairness" to me, I did spend one heck of alot of money in total ( $12.000) and did come away somewhat dissapointed.  When you DON'T HAVE decent TV channels, decent internet connection, crappy NY Times, and throw in about 25% of everybody coughing and hacking continually it just "Wears You Down" especially on a 13 day cruise.  Sorry, but YES, I do blame HAL for the drink package, lousy internet service with no internet room like on other ships, and horrendous TV channel selections.  Not everybody after dinner rushes down to the "show", many people prefer to go back to their room and watch some good TV which was not possible. 

[canadianbear]

17 minutes ago, Chuck said:

Let me just add one thing to the person who said "And all that anger with a wine steward about $1.00-Huh?"   I don't know anything about you but first of all "respectfully"  my wife and I were not angry. Second, maybe you have never bought the drink package so "perhaps" you don't understand how it works.  The cap of $11 was fine with us but my wife really prefers "Moscato" which is by far her favorite.  HAL only offered "One Choice of Moscato" and it was priced at $12 which was a dollar over the limit.  I simply asked the nice folks that were in charge of the wine etc if I could pay the "Dollar Difference" which is a very natural and normal question to ask.  I was told NO they would have to charge me the full $12 for the Moscato and not the dollar difference.  Thats why I stated way back on page #1 that the "DRINK PACKAGE IS A RIPOFF".  Nothing complicated about it. By the way they only offered one kind of Moscato which there are dozens and dozens of domestic companies that make a very affordable Moscato so you see they could have offered it buy chose not too.  And to be brutally honest when I bought the package thru HAL they should have gone over the rules with me which THEY DID NOT DO.

We’ve never bought a drink package but were cruising with another couple who had it.  It surprised me when one of them ordered an expensive glass of wine and weren’t allowed to  pay the difference.  Seems crazy to me.  

[kazu]

13 minutes ago, Chuck said:

Yes indeed when we cruise next there's a 98% chance it will NOT be with HAL.   Maybe in 2 or 3 years when the experience wears off we may look into a Viking.  I have heard good things about them.  Thank you for the comments and even the criticism.  I'm a big boy and I can handle it.  We did just fine overall.  I think as I may have said before it really was just the "Combination of things' that wear on you.  I won't name them all off again as I've gone over them adnauseam.  But in all "fairness" to me, I did spend one heck of alot of money in total ( $12.000) and did come away somewhat dissapointed.  When you DON'T HAVE decent TV channels, decent internet connection, crappy NY Times, and throw in about 25% of everybody coughing and hacking continually it just "Wears You Down" especially on a 13 day cruise.  Sorry, but YES, I do blame HAL for the drink package, lousy internet service with no internet room like on other ships, and horrendous TV channel selections.  Not everybody after dinner rushes down to the "show", many people prefer to go back to their room and watch some good TV which was not possible. 

 

I hate to break it to you, but sailing another line won’t necessarily solve your problem.

 

I did Oceania and had lousy internet, people coughing, Noro, bad service (and to top it off, the best food at sea was not the best I have had other than one restaurant and at times, Terrace Grill) and yes, it did cost quite a few bucks.  

[kazu]

4 minutes ago, canadianbear said:

We’ve never bought a drink package but were cruising with another couple who had it.  It surprised me when one of them ordered an expensive glass of wine and weren’t allowed to  pay the difference.  Seems crazy to me.  

 

I agree but those are the rules.

 

We found a solution, knowing we had to pay and went to happy hour.  

The beverage package is “ok” for certain things (especially if you are a liquor drinker) but for wine, it’s pretty abysmal.  Too bad the OP hadn’t researched or checked it out onboard - they could have changed to the Elite package to get the moscato.

 

Neither does us any good as we like a wine that costs more than that 😉 

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, canadianbear said:

We’ve never bought a drink package but were cruising with another couple who had it.  It surprised me when one of them ordered an expensive glass of wine and weren’t allowed to  pay the difference.  Seems crazy to me.  

THANK YOU Canadianbear;   Finally someone that actually "Gets It".   Lord Sakes it took long enough.  Are you familiar with the term "Good Will"?    HAL could have a policy to let the customer pay the "Upcharge" and all would be well.  But they choose not to so as far as Iam concerned they have no good will.  They have lost a customer who booked a "Signature Suite" and even perhaps would have next time gone with a "Neptune Suite".   We have done many cruises over the decades (only 3 with HAL) and we do like cruising but want it to be a good experience overall.  But this one unfortunately did not meet our expectations. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

13 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

I agree but those are the rules.

 

We found a solution, knowing we had to pay and went to happy hour.  

The beverage package is “ok” for certain things (especially if you are a liquor drinker) but for wine, it’s pretty abysmal.  Too bad the OP hadn’t researched or checked it out onboard - they could have changed to the Elite package to get the moscato.

 

Neither does us any good as we like a wine that costs more than that 😉 

 

My main alcohol consumption is wine at dinner and I have never found HAL's wines by the glass under the SBP limit to be to my taste. With 15 drinks per day, the package won't let me turn in any or all of those 15 drinks for one decent bottle of wine--and I wouldn't try to go for a $150 bottle, either. Just something drinkable. So the package doesn't serve my needs and I can be content paying as I go, which is less than the per day on the SBP.

 

[sail7seas]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

Let me just add one thing to the person who said "And all that anger with a wine steward about $1.00-Huh?"   I don't know anything about you but first of all "respectfully"  my wife and I were not angry. Second, maybe you have never bought the drink package so "perhaps" you don't understand how it works.  The cap of $11 was fine with us but my wife really prefers "Moscato" which is by far her favorite.  HAL only offered "One Choice of Moscato" and it was priced at $12 which was a dollar over the limit.  I simply asked the nice folks that were in charge of the wine etc if I could pay the "Dollar Difference" which is a very natural and normal question to ask.  I was told NO they would have to charge me the full $12 for the Moscato and not the dollar difference.  Thats why I stated way back on page #1 that the "DRINK PACKAGE IS A RIPOFF".  Nothing complicated about it. By the way they only offered one kind of Moscato which there are dozens and dozens of domestic companies that make a very affordable Moscato so you see they could have offered it buy chose not too.  And to be brutally honest when I bought the package thru HAL they should have gone over the rules with me which THEY DID NOT DO.

 

 

 

When you   bought the package, did you not   ask the rules?    I seriously doubt whom ever sold it to you would refuse to respond to all  questions  you might have, could have asked  

 

 

To parrot the end of your above post....  You SHOuld have  asked but apparently you  did not .

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by sail7seas

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

 

 

 

When you   bought the package, did you not   ask the rules?    I seriously doubt whom ever sold it to you would refuse to respond to all  questions  you might have, could have asked  

 

 

I can't remember "exactly" what I paid but it was something like $1,500 for the 2 of us.  Did you know they won't sell the package as a solo???   You both have to buy it or no deal.   Anyway, if it makes you feel better to push the blame off onto me feel free as thats what people like to do around here.  I think since they (HAL) are the professionals not me they should have gone into great detail and maybe even asked me what my wife and I like to drink.  But the HAL Rep did NONE OF THE ABOVE.  Like I previously said GOOD WILL would have gone a long ways.  But that didn't happen either.  The Mgmt. on the Ship should have had the authorization to make an executive decision to let me pay the $1.00 Upcharge instead of just saying "Oh, we will have to charge you the full $12" which as I said adnauseum is a true RIP OFF.  It definitely left a very sour taste in my mouth---no pun intended.  One last thing when you actually "start doing the math" on the cost of the package it truly is NOT WORTH IT UNLESS YOU'RE AN ALCOHOLIC ----Which we are NOT. 

[bEwAbG]

I just keep reading unreasonable expectations.  If you need that much hand-holding, you should use the services of a TA.

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, bEwAbG said:

I just keep reading unreasonable expectations.  If you need that much hand-holding, you should use the services of a TA.

"Hand Holding"   Really?????   I wish I could tell you what I would like to say but I can't. 

[bEwAbG]

Likewise, I'm sure.  But as many people have noted, your misunderstanding of the product (even with prior experience of it) is not the same thing as HAL misleading you.