Oceania's Action Plan for Coronavirus

[Flatbush Flyer]

58 minutes ago, mircha said:

A few hours ago, Norwegian (owner of Oceania) decided to give 100% refunds (cash or credit) to all customers booked on Feb 17? Sailing of the Norwegian Jade. Previously they were only offering the 10% refund and 25% FCC. Of course, Norwegian was silent as to why it was so tardy in offering the full refund ... and made no comment on March (or later) sailings. 
 

Also, yesterday the following was posted on Reuters.com:

Dale Fisher, chair of the Global Outbreak Alert & Response Network that is coordinated by the World Health Organization, told Reuters in an interview that the virus “has spread to other places where it's the beginning of the outbreak. ‘In Singapore, we are at the beginning of the outbreak.’

....

Singapore has reported 50 coronavirus cases, one of the highest tallies outside China, including mounting evidence of local transmission.”
 

Given this report and the increase in number of cases in Singapore, Oceania and its parent company are literally abusing its customers in expecting them to embark or disembark in Singapore. It’s almost as though the companies are hoping that people will cancel for peanuts, so they will have to make fewer refunds when push comes to shove. 

Michelle (mircha)

You may also want to look at cruise industry news https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/22451-norwegian-and-celebrity-cancel-asia-sailings.html

The reason the Jade cruise was scratched is not because of Singapore. Rather, Vietnam is increasing its selectivity on ship traffic and NCL could not find suitable replacements.

 

And that CANCELLATION is why the compensation is now the normal 100% + 25% FCC. The earlier 10% compensation + 25% FCC was a good will gesture for port changes on a cruise that was still a "go." These are very important distinctions.

 

. 

Edited February 14, 2020 by Flatbush Flyer

[corpkid]

4 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

You may also want to look at cruise industry news https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/22451-norwegian-and-celebrity-cancel-asia-sailings.html

The reason the Jade cruise was scratched is not because of Singapore. Rather, Vietnam is increasing its selectivity on ship traffic and NCL could not find suitable replacements.

 

"Due to growing concerns regarding coronavirus in Asia, the ports we planned to visit in Vietnam are no longer open to accepting cruise ships. As omitting Vietnam would substantially change the planned itinerary with no viable replacement, we are forced to cancel the Norwegian Jade sailing on February 17, 2020 from Singapore. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause," the company said."

 

That doesn't sound very selective.

 

 

[mircha]

7 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

The reason the Jade cruise was scratched is not because of Singapore. Rather, Vietnam is increasing its selectivity on ship traffic and NCL could not find suitable replacements.

I did not state that the Jade was cancelled due to Singapore - just that it was cancelled and Norwegian finally relented in its intransigence and issued full refunds. 
 

I also mentioned that more cases had arisen in Singapore and that an expert predicted that Singapore was only beginning to feel the impacts of Coronavirus (an opinion echoed an hour ago by one of the Ministers of Transportation in Singapore).

 
michelle (mircha)

[Flatbush Flyer]

5 minutes ago, corpkid said:

 

"Due to growing concerns regarding coronavirus in Asia, the ports we planned to visit in Vietnam are no longer open to accepting cruise ships. As omitting Vietnam would substantially change the planned itinerary with no viable replacement, we are forced to cancel the Norwegian Jade sailing on February 17, 2020 from Singapore. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause," the company said."

 

That doesn't sound very selective.

 

 

You may want to reread my post. I said "selectivity on ship traffic." Cruise ships are not the only "ship traffic" in ports - either Vietnam or worldwide. Are you suggesting that no ships are being allowed in Vietnam ports?

 

And, as is the case with Singapore, Hong Kong, etc. there are always exceptions to wholesale policy statements or specific reasons for saying no to one cruise ship (e.g., that may have allowed questionable passengers on in previous ports) and yes to another (like Nautica, which will basically have been in a month long pseudo-self quarantine when it arrives in Singapore in early March.

[corpkid]

7 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

You may want to reread my post. I said "selectivity on ship traffic." Cruise ships are not the only "ship traffic" in ports - either Vietnam or worldwide. Are you suggesting that no ships are being allowed in Vietnam ports?

 

And, as is the case with Singapore, Hong Kong, etc. there are always exceptions to wholesale policy statements or specific reasons for saying no to one cruise ship (e.g., that may have allowed questionable passengers on in previous ports) and yes to another (like Nautica, which will basically have been in a month long pseudo-self quarantine when it arrives in Singapore in early March.

 

My point stands - as of right now, it does not look like Vietnam is accepting cruise ships.

[Flatbush Flyer]

10 minutes ago, mircha said:

I did not state that the Jade was cancelled due to Singapore - just that it was cancelled and Norwegian finally relented in its intransigence and issued full refunds.

Sorry but NCL did not "relent in its intransigence."

 

When Vietnam was on the itinerary, NCL offered the 10% gesture for a cruise that would go.

When Vietnam pulled out, NCL could not find replacements and cancelled the cruise, which triggered the normal 100% refund. 

 

Totally different things!

[mircha]

7 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Sorry but NCL did not "relent in its intransigence."

Sorry, I was really paraphrasing from the Sun Sentinel’s article: “The Miami-based cruise line’sintransigence regarding the Jade voyages sparked outrage among travelers booked on the cruises.“

 

The passengers were already incensed that the original (Hong Kong) port of embarkation had been changed to Singapore, The article proceeded to state: “Norwegian reportedly stood firm against offering full compensation. That left customers with two unsavory choices: They could take the cruise and risk exposure to the virus, or choose not to go and lose hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars they’d already given Norwegian....

 

The cruise line offered a 10 percent refund plus a 25 percent credit toward a future cruise, but that ‘pitiful offer’ was [according to the quoted booked passenger] no better than treating a heart attack with a Band-Aid’.” 
 

If interested, the full article can be found at https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-coronavirus-spawns-dilemma-for-planned-asia-cruisers-20200213-oh4medemiva2hjsn74homcr4vq-story.html?outputType=amp

Hope the link works. 
 

Frankly, it is somewhat obscene that Norwegian waited until February 13 to offer full refunds and credits for a voyage scheduled to depart on February 17. 
 

Clearly, your situation on Nautica is different - your embarkation port was not changed and you have traveled to relatively virus free ports. I hope you safely disembark in Singapore as scheduled ... but you might want to have a respirator mask and surgical gloves handy.

 

michelle (mircha)

 

 

 

[manuwolf]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Where did you get the idea that the reimbursement doesn't include port taxes in the calculation? (Opinion or evidence?)

 Oceania bundles those items (cabin cost/taxes/etc. in stating a "cruise fare" for passengers' invoices and your invoice clearly states "cruise fare." Likewise, the compensation letter says "cruise fare." 

 

OC is stating that the 25% will be reimbursed only on net cruise fare, means what you have paid MINUS the port charges. I have put that question to my TA & got the response from OC through my TA in an email yesterday. But never mind, the port charges are s very small part of what we have paid- this will only marginally effect the final reimbursement.

[corpkid]

Here is the daily status (as best as I could find) and pertinent news on the ports affecting the March Nautica and May Insignia APAC cruises. I will do my best to update this each day. I gather my data from the Johns Hopkins CSSE tracking site and news articles. Changes in reported infections are indicated, as are sources of any new information on port status. NOTE: This information does not pertain to Chinese nationals or passport holders for whom additional ports may be closed.

 

 

Fri, Feb 14th Update:

CAMBODIA:     Open                   1 case
CHINA:        Closed                 63,855 cases
HONG KONG:    Closed                 53 cases
INDIA:        Open                   3 cases
JAPAN:        Open                   29 cases
KOREA:        Closed                 28 cases    
MALAYSIA:     Closed (Kota Kinabalu) 19 cases
MYANMAR:      Open                   0 cases
PHILIPPINES:  Open                   3 cases
SINGAPORE:    Open                   58 cases

THAILAND:     Open                   33 cases
UAE:          Open                   8 cases
VIETNAM:      Closed (Unofficial)    16 cases

 

SOURCES:
Johns Hopkins CSSE Tracking:
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Edited February 14, 2020 by corpkid

[corpkid]

If you go to that site and look on the bottom right, there is an option to change the graph to logarithmic where it shows cases tapering off soon, which is a faint glimmer of hope for Insignia pax. But logarithms don't model potential pandemics. I'm concerned we're going to see a big spike in cases in the next month, due to updates & cohesion in reporting and the asymptomatic window being so long.

 

If I were going on the March 4 cruise I would go, but just exercise strict hygiene practices.  I'm still very much holding out hope for the Insignia cruise we have planned from Singapore. We've spent time in Hong Kong and are OK with missing it (were just going to fly out at the end anyways) but if we miss Vietnam this will be a blow as that was the reason for us to go. 

 

Tough times for everyone, cruise lines included.  Just remember, Nautica is not going to be that ship floating from port to port looking for a home.  Be angry all you want, but I'm fairly certain Oceania isn't looking to be the first operator to have a situation after the first wave.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by corpkid

[PaulMCO]

5 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Where did you get the idea that the reimbursement doesn't include port taxes in the calculation? (Opinion or evidence?)

 Oceania bundles those items (cabin cost/taxes/etc. in stating a "cruise fare" for passengers' invoices and your invoice clearly states "cruise fare." Likewise, the compensation letter says "cruise fare." 

 

Was surprised too.  But that is what TA said. 

[irr]

Update as of this AM Singapore 17 new cases bringing the total to 67 - more cases than Hong Kong and escalating more rapidly - 8 patients in serious or critical condition. 

 

Temperature screening remains an ineffective way to screen for the virus  It is nonspecific and not sensitive for the Coronavirus. 

Many other cruise companies have pulled out of Singapore 

 

Data from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/

[irr]

5 hours ago, corpkid said:

Here is the daily status (as best as I could find) and pertinent news on the ports affecting the March Nautica and May Insignia APAC cruises. I will do my best to update this each day. I gather my data from the Johns Hopkins CSSE tracking site and news articles. Changes in reported infections are indicated, as are sources of any new information on port status. NOTE: This information does not pertain to Chinese nationals or passport holders for whom additional ports may be closed.

 

 

Fri, Feb 14th Update:

CAMBODIA:     Open                   1 case
CHINA:        Closed                 63,855 cases
HONG KONG:    Closed                 53 cases
INDIA:        Open                   3 cases
JAPAN:        Open                   29 cases
KOREA:        Closed                 28 cases    
MALAYSIA:     Closed (Kota Kinabalu) 19 cases
MYANMAR:      Open                   0 cases
PHILIPPINES:  Open                   3 cases
SINGAPORE:    Open                   58 cases

THAILAND:     Open                   33 cases
UAE:          Open                   8 cases
VIETNAM:      Closed (Unofficial)    16 cases

 

SOURCES:
Johns Hopkins CSSE Tracking:
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Meant to include on my last comment. I really appreciate this data from Johns Hopkins. Thanks for posting it. I think the data speaks for itself relative to increasing risk in certain areas of the world relative to risk of infrastructure disruption (closed cruise ports, closed public spaces, declining flights, etc) as well as the risk of illness and what to expect if you get ill. 

[irr]

Update as of this AM Singapore 17 new cases bringing the total to 67 - more cases than Hong Kong and escalating more rapidly - 8 patients in serious or critical condition. 

Temperature screening remains an ineffective way to screen for the virus 

 

Looking at China may give a glimpse as to the outcomes if you get sick 

The death rate is around 2% so far 

However of those infected who have not recovered yet about 19% are in serious or critical condition 

[Shawnino]

They are still piecing it together but it seems that both infection rates and mortality rates skew older.

So does O's demo of course. 

[irr]

15 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

They are still piecing it together but it seems that both infection rates and mortality rates skew older.

So does O's demo of course. 

That is correct, All of this data is for the entire population. Risk of serious illnes for those over 60 is significantly higher, however we don't know much more than that relative to absolute percentages.

Another new piece of information just released is that China is now struggling with a high infectivity rate of health care professionals despite precautions with an estimated  1,700 health care professionals infected. That, of course, really can tax an already stretching health care system. What we don't know is if these professionals got infected before strict quarantine and protection measures were taken into account or despite the fact that there are strict quarantne and protection measures. 

[mircha]

Thanks to irr, corpkid, and shawnino for their informative posts.

 

I apologize if my earlier posts implied anger. I am not angry (well, maybe a little at Norwegian for their treatment of passengers on the Jade). I am, however, extremely disappointed in, and frustrated with, Oceania — a Line we have sailed (almost exclusively with) for the past 10 years. In light of current developments in the Coronavirus, the presently planned 43 day cruise on Insignia seems recklessly irresponsible ... but perhaps Oceania has not yet had time to respond to those developments. A prompt response is sorely needed as customers stand to lose many thousands of dollars or risk infection. And, of course, Oceania risks losing many future cruise dollars.

 

michelle (mircha)

[ORV]

If you're going to that area you could look into this product my neighbor down the road is selling. 🤑

 

https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2020/02/13/coronavirus-jim-bakker-show-guest-product-claims-virus-cure/4747622002/

[clo]

10 hours ago, corpkid said:

 

My point stands - as of right now, it does not look like Vietnam is accepting cruise ships.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-vietnam-ship/vietnam-turns-away-cruise-ship-over-coronavirus-fears-state-media-idUSKBN2081FU

[cruiseaholic78]

12 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Where did you get the idea that the reimbursement doesn't include port taxes in the calculation? (Opinion or evidence?)

 Oceania bundles those items (cabin cost/taxes/etc. in stating a "cruise fare" for passengers' invoices and your invoice clearly states "cruise fare." Likewise, the compensation letter says "cruise fare." 

 

Unfortunately my hopes for 10% refund of the full 43 day Insignia cruise have been dashed today! I was already counting my cents with glee only to be told by my DH that we would only get it for the first 18 days as the second part was not affected. It doesn’t happen often but in this case dear hubby was right!

I have now seen the amount and it is lower than expected probably due to the dreaded port fees previously mentioned but I was unable to work out the exact amount as we booked nearly two years ago when it was cheaper and I do not know the amounts for each leg.

However I can assure you it is not for the “cruise fare” for the 43 days, darn I was hoping to use this plus a possible FCC towards an upgrade to a balcony cabin IF we ever go on this cruise!

 

 

[Desert_Boomer]

Vietnam would appear to be off the itinerary soon as two cruise ships with prior clearance and compliance with all updated screening and exclusion regulations were both denied entry.

 https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3050750/vietnam-blocks-two-cruise-ships-docking-keep-out

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 hours ago, irr said:

 

Data from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/

A few folks on this thread seem to only read as far as the headlines.

From the same citation:

The spike observed on Feb. 12 is the result, for the most part, of a change in diagnosis classification for which 13,332 clinically (rather than laboratory) confirmed cases were all reported as new cases on Feb. 12, even though they were diagnosed in the preceding days and weeks.

[Flatbush Flyer]

7 hours ago, PaulMCO said:

Was surprised too.  But that is what TA said. 

Bummer. Of course, the compensation for those of us who will cruise is still a chunk of change.

[LHT28]

maybe all travel should be suspended  anywhere in the world

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/13/london-coronavirus-patient-turned-up-hospital-uber-taxi

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

11 hours ago, mircha said:

....Frankly, it is somewhat obscene that Norwegian waited until February 13 to offer full refunds and credits for a voyage scheduled to depart on February 17. 

 

Clearly, your situation on Nautica is different - your embarkation port was not changed and you have traveled to relatively virus free ports. I hope you safely disembark in Singapore as scheduled ... but you might want to have a respirator mask and surgical gloves handy.

 

michelle (mircha)

 

Perhaps NCL was still trying to find replacement ports in order to appease the far greater number of folks who still wanted to cruise. But, alas, that didn't work. So they cancelled.

We're not worried about heading directly home from Singapore on March 4 (Cathay Pacific via HKG to SFO). We wore the masks and took all the obvious precautions on the inbound early February flight through HGK. And we'll do the same on the way home.

(Interestingly, there's quite a few O regulars on Nautica now who are keeping their plans to stay a few extra days in Singapore. They too will take all reasonable precautions).

 

And, unless there are new itinerary changes, we'll be back in Singapore in May to join Insignia for the two segments that had the midpoint overnight in Hong Kong but which will now sadly be missed. And, once again, we'll take all the obvious health precautions.