Oceania's Action Plan for Coronavirus

[irr]

9 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Oceania has more than one million repeat customers. You (and all your friends) and me (and all my friends) constitute less than a rounding error in their weekly "bottom line." If we decide to take our business elsewhere, Oceania will continue to do just fine financially.

 

And even you will have to admit that, when it comes to the business of cruising, Frank Del Rio (founder of Oceania and now CEO of NCL Holdings) knows far more about the industry than we do and he would never allow Oceania decision making that jeopardizes its existence.

 

We just joined Nautica in Cape Town and we've yet to meet anyone (among the seasoned O cruisers) who have an issue with how the Coronavirus are/are not being addressed by Oceania. Some who, like us, MAY face some flight challenges when we disembark in Singapore in March and are scheduled to travel through  

 

There's another piece of this that you may not have considered (though, given your posts so far, I doubt it will matter). O's upcoming  itineraries that include China and environs are morphing as we exchange these posts.

 

We'll be heading back to Singapore from SFO in May (scheduled via Manila, which we assume may have some air travel challenges to deal with) to do two segments of the O world cruise on Insignia. That cruise currently includes a handful of China stops and the "smart money" bet is that they soon will be replaced - minimally with some South Korea ports.

 

I expect that none of this eases your concerns. But, "it is what it is." And your still haven't answered my earlier question: Are you going on your cruise?

This is so much more than just not wanting to take a cruise for my own health. Currently there is a cruise ship on indefinite quarantine because of a case that was not diagnosed until after the patient left the ship. It is unclear how long it will take for Japan to think that is safe. Hong Kong remains as risky, if not more so, than many other areas of China. It is not a matter of if but when because of policies such as Oceanias increased the number of people coming back from Hong Kong that increases the risk of the virus in the US. It is currently estimated that for every person with the virus 4 will be infected. That is much higher than the flu and SARS. The death rate in China has now exceeded the SARS death rate. The death rate for influenza is .1%. The death rate for this virus is 2-3 percent. The sequelae of this virus if you get sick and recover is completely unknown. The longer you can prolong the spread of this disease the more likely we are to know how best to treat it and decrease spread. This is unprecedented and we as travelers  need to be part of the global community not ugly travelers who say I am taking my trip no matter how many people that are placed at risk if I go. Am I going on this trip? Ah, there is where Oceania is putting me in a situation where I cannot tell you. I have not contradicted anything. I have no intention of going to Hong Kong. In my opinion, elective travel to Hong Kong at this point is irresponsible. What I don't know is if Oceania is going to change the itinerary enough for me to consider the new itinerary. If there is a change in the situation and my flights get cancelled then my trip insurance kicks  in. If Oceania decides to act like other cruise lines then there may be more of an option for credit for a future cruise or refund. No matter what I will not go to or through Hong Kong. 

[irr]

I have no intention of going to Hong Kong. As a health care provider understanding the public health implications  it is my opinion that going to Hong Kong is  irresponsible. That is not a contradiction to what I am saying. My options though depend  on Oceania's response to this crisis. How I ultimately handle  this is different if the itinerary gets changed, the cruise gets cancelled, my flights get cancelled or Oceania liberalizes credits for future cruises or refunds. This is a lot of money to lose so I will just need to wait until Oceania makes a final decision to see if there are ways to recoup some of my cruise losses on this trip. Luckily, everyone other than Oceania has had a liberal cancellation policy related to Hong Kong. (airlines, hotels, tours etc) 

[irr]

We have already started to see problems related to cruise ships and Hong Kong that will impact a significant number of people. Once again, I have not intention of going to Hong Kong. 

A passenger on a Japanese-operated cruise ship tested positive after leaving the vessel while it was in Hong Kong, and Japanese officials were considering a quarantine of the more than 3,000 people on board.

The Diamond Princess returned to Yokohama after making port calls in Vietnam, Taiwan and Okinawa. A team of quarantine officials and medical staff boarded the ship Monday and began medical checks of everyone on board, a health ministry official said, speaking on condition of anonymity in keeping with department rules.

The ship's captain said Hong Kong's health authorities notified the ship about the passenger's infection on Saturday, according to a recording of the announcement tweeted by a passenger. The patient is recovering, and his traveling companions so far have not been infected, the captain's announcement said.

“I wish we were informed as soon as they found out, then I could have worn a mask or washed hands more carefully," the passenger said. “I was in Hong Kong nine days ago and it seems to be too late now.”

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, irr said:

......Luckily, everyone other than Oceania has had a liberal cancellation policy related to Hong Kong. (airlines, hotels, tours etc) 

You do have a tendency to overexaggerate in your quest to convince everyone to be outraged: "everyone"?

 

You may want to review the most updated accommodations being made by many airlines that are home based in regions like Hong Kong (Cathay Pacific), Manila (PAL) et al. They relate only to mainland China legs. If you're trying to get to/from the US, you are subject to normal rebooking rules/costs etc.

 

Back to Oceania:

Based on a trusted source, I consider it safe to assume that mainland China port stops for the immediate future are in the process of being replaced (most likely with South Korean and Japanese ports). But, since Oceania is not the only cruiseline in the region and tends to have fairly long cruises with numerous ports, it will take a reasonable amount of time to accomplish; and, given the virus itself, even the future changes may be changed again and again in the next few weeks/months.

 

FWIW, Celebrity's new policy was only announced yesterday (February 3). And, of course, it may need to change again the day after tomorrow. There's a post of another CC thread regarding the virus, where a group of four just found themselves denied Celebrity boarding in Hong Kong a few days ago and apparently they're SOL on refunds. (Of course, take CC posts with a "grain (or ten) of salt"), particularly when they're made from a soapbox.

 

BTW: Hong Kong as an "issue" remains uncertain: The CDC (today) still considers HK a "level two" travel advisory but appears to find it unnecessary to make the significant jump to "level three." (Warning Level 3 (Red): Avoid all non-essential travel to this destination. The outbreak ... Alert Level 2 ( Yellow): Practice enhanced precautions for this destination.

 

FWIW, My money is on the CDC as the best advice regarding travel destinations.  

 

So folks, as my buddy Deano in Perth has posted: be patient!

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Flatbush Flyer

[Flatbush Flyer]

28 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

You do have a tendency to overexaggerate in your quest to convince everyone to be outraged: "everyone"?

 

You may want to review the most updated accommodations being made by many airlines that are home based in regions like Hong Kong (Cathay Pacific), Manila (PAL) et al. They relate only to mainland China legs. If you're trying to get to/from the US, you are subject to normal rebooking rules/costs etc.

 

Back to Oceania:

Based on a trusted source, I consider it safe to assume that mainland China port stops for the immediate future are in the process of being replaced (most likely with South Korean and Japanese ports). But, since Oceania is not the only cruiseline in the region and tends to have fairly long cruises with numerous ports, it will take a reasonable amount of time to accomplish; and, given the virus itself, even the future changes may be changed again and again in the next few weeks/months.

 

FWIW, Celebrity's new policy was only announced yesterday (February 3). And, of course, it may need to change again the day after tomorrow. There's a post of another CC thread regarding the virus, where a group of four just found themselves denied Celebrity boarding in Hong Kong a few days ago and apparently they're SOL on refunds. (Of course, take CC posts with a "grain (or ten) of salt"), particularly when they're made from a soapbox.

 

BTW: Hong Kong as an "issue" remains uncertain: The CDC (today) still considers HK a "level two" travel advisory but appears to find it unnecessary to make the significant jump to "level three." (Warning Level 3 (Red): Avoid all non-essential travel to this destination. The outbreak ... Alert Level 2 ( Yellow): Practice enhanced precautions for this destination.

 

FWIW, My money is on the CDC as the best advice regarding travel destinations.  

 

So folks, as my buddy Deano in Perth has posted: be patient!

 

Correction: That CC reported Celebrity boarding denial was in Singapore based on transit through Hong Kong.

[TrulyBlonde]

10 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I stalk you too, Contessa!  I check your posts listing regularly because you usually only post on interesting threads.  I’m an equal-opportunity stalker, as I do the same with Jim 😉 

Yes, but you are my friend and I know why you look. You are free to keep stalking because you and Jim have my best interests. xo

[irr]

18 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Oceania has more than one million repeat customers. You (and all your friends) and me (and all my friends) constitute less than a rounding error in their weekly "bottom line." If we decide to take our business elsewhere, Oceania will continue to do just fine financially.

 

And even you will have to admit that, when it comes to the business of cruising, Frank Del Rio (founder of Oceania and now CEO of NCL Holdings) knows far more about the industry than we do and he would never allow Oceania decision making that jeopardizes its existence.

 

We just joined Nautica in Cape Town and we've yet to meet anyone (among the seasoned O cruisers) who have an issue with how the Coronavirus are/are not being addressed by Oceania. Some who, like us, MAY face some flight challenges when we disembark in Singapore in March and are scheduled to travel through  

 

There's another piece of this that you may not have considered (though, given your posts so far, I doubt it will matter). O's upcoming  itineraries that include China and environs are morphing as we exchange these posts.

 

We'll be heading back to Singapore from SFO in May (scheduled via Manila, which we assume may have some air travel challenges to deal with) to do two segments of the O world cruise on Insignia. That cruise currently includes a handful of China stops and the "smart money" bet is that they soon will be replaced - minimally with some South Korea ports.

 

I expect that none of this eases your concerns. But, "it is what it is." And your still haven't answered my earlier question: Are you going on your cruise?

Okay Flatbush I will stop posting my opinion. I will just post news updates so people can make intelligent decisions on their own about this evolving situation. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/feb/3/chinas-virus-cases-top-20k-as-hong-kong-closes-mos/

[irr]

20 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Oceania has more than one million repeat customers. You (and all your friends) and me (and all my friends) constitute less than a rounding error in their weekly "bottom line." If we decide to take our business elsewhere, Oceania will continue to do just fine financially.

 

And even you will have to admit that, when it comes to the business of cruising, Frank Del Rio (founder of Oceania and now CEO of NCL Holdings) knows far more about the industry than we do and he would never allow Oceania decision making that jeopardizes its existence.

 

We just joined Nautica in Cape Town and we've yet to meet anyone (among the seasoned O cruisers) who have an issue with how the Coronavirus are/are not being addressed by Oceania. Some who, like us, MAY face some flight challenges when we disembark in Singapore in March and are scheduled to travel through  

 

There's another piece of this that you may not have considered (though, given your posts so far, I doubt it will matter). O's upcoming  itineraries that include China and environs are morphing as we exchange these posts.

 

We'll be heading back to Singapore from SFO in May (scheduled via Manila, which we assume may have some air travel challenges to deal with) to do two segments of the O world cruise on Insignia. That cruise currently includes a handful of China stops and the "smart money" bet is that they soon will be replaced - minimally with some South Korea ports.

 

I expect that none of this eases your concerns. But, "it is what it is." And your still haven't answered my earlier question: Are you going on your cruise?

For those that think that Hong Kong is not part of the global response to this epidemic. American Airlines has just suspended flight to Hong Kong until February 20. https://news.yahoo.com/american-airlines-suspends-flights-hong-122619325.html

[PaulMCO]

Just to provide correct information.  CDC considers Hong Kong a Level 1 (not 2) - Practice Usual Precautions.

 

Also providing correct information -- AA suspended flights through 20 Feb due to demand.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by PaulMCO

[1985rz1]

2 hours ago, PaulMCO said:

Just to provide correct information.  CDC considers Hong Kong a Level 1 (not 2) - Practice Usual Precautions.

 

Also providing correct information -- AA suspended flights through 20 Feb due to demand.

 

 

Actually, the State Department  has changed it's travel warning to level 2 as of January 31 because of the novel coronavirus:

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/hong-kong-travel-advisory.html

 

I don't know if that was what you were referring to.  The only CDC advisory I found was an increase to level 3 for China, excluding Hong Kong and others.  If you found a CDC advisory for Hong Kong, folks might like to see the link.

 

Thanks

 

[susiesan]

I'm one of those people who takes advantage of deals when "crises" like these happen. I am thinking about visiting Vietnam and Cambodia next January or February, not on a cruise but on a land trip, since  there will be deals galore to be had. I visited Vietnam for the first time in 2004, shortly after the SARS thing blew over. It was great-very few tourists, hotels and restaurants were not crowded and were making all sorts of deals.

[PaulMCO]

34 minutes ago, 1985rz1 said:

Actually, the State Department  has changed it's travel warning to level 2 as of January 31 because of the novel coronavirus:

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/hong-kong-travel-advisory.html

 

I don't know if that was what you were referring to.  The only CDC advisory I found was an increase to level 3 for China, excluding Hong Kong and others.  If you found a CDC advisory for Hong Kong, folks might like to see the link.

 

Thanks

 

 

Hong Kong

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/hong-kong-sar

 

China

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/china

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by PaulMCO

[RJB]

18 hours ago, TrulyBlonde said:

Here is what Celebrity is doing as an example of other cruise lines.

https://www.celebritycruises.com/content/dam/celebrity/pdf/ML-3-14-20-Itinerary-Modification-Guest-Letter.pdf

 

Good job by Celebrity.  The rest of the cruise lines should do the same.

[1985rz1]

3 minutes ago, PaulMCO said:

 

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/hong-kong-sar

Thanks...I couldn't find it in my searches,  or maybe I accidently skipped over it.  But I appreciate the link.

[manuwolf]

Apart from all the links you have shared, DID ANYBODY HEAR A WORD FROM OC? I have sent another email to OC wih my TA in cc. OC stayed silent, my TA answered that all she can do is to forward my request to OC. I have no words for such an unprofessional and disrespectful behavior of a cruise line!

[1985rz1]

35 minutes ago, manuwolf said:

Apart from all the links you have shared, DID ANYBODY HEAR A WORD FROM OC? I have sent another email to OC wih my TA in cc. OC stayed silent, my TA answered that all she can do is to forward my request to OC. I have no words for such an unprofessional and disrespectful behavior of a cruise line!

This statement was issued on January 31, 2020, and is on OC's web site, albeit as a small link at the bottom of the Home Page:

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/coronavirus-statement

[manuwolf]

10 minutes ago, 1985rz1 said:

This statement was issued on January 31, 2020, and is on OC's web site, albeit as a small link at the bottom of the Home Page:

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/coronavirus-statement

Thanks for sharing this link - although, I have to admit that its content will give me a sleepless night! They are not allowing passengers on board in Hongkong who have been to mainland China 30 days before sailing. And further down this notice it says: " At this time, there are no changes to our itineraries." They must be kidding us! We have Shanghai, Tianjin and Dailan in our 18 March departure itinerary! I think OC is becoming a big scam!!!

[Flatbush Flyer]

6 minutes ago, 1985rz1 said:

This statement was issued on January 31, 2020, and is on OC's web site, albeit as a small link at the bottom of the Home Page:

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/coronavirus-statement

Good reminder of what's already Ben implemented. But I think the poster is wanting more info about itinerary changes, particularly any that might impact embark/disembark locations as well as possible modifications to cancellation/rebooking policies.

 

FWIW (and as aforementioned), Oceania's itineraries in/near Asia are longer and more complex (including overlapping multi-segment cruises) than most other cruise lines and, thus port changes will take more time to finalize (albeit with the understanding that CDC et al. may change threat levels/transit bans/etc. with little notice beforehand.

 

What you can bet on is that no Oceania ship will be making port stops in mainland China in the near future. Perhaps not as certain (as relates to start/stop ports) is the somewhat uncertain future of travel advisories/regulations regarding Hong Kong, which is currently excluded from travel bans/threat advisories by the CDC and governments of most countries in that region and most air carriers.

 

What some of the posters here (who may be concerned only about upcoming cruises) don't realize is that any itinerary change to a disembarkation port on a cruise already underway may have a significant impact on current passengers and their plans to get home.

 

So......  Consider the bigger picture and be patient. And I can offer that advice since I am living with the uncertainty right now (on Nautica headed eventually to Singapore in early March and then home to SF via Hong Kong).

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

21 minutes ago, manuwolf said:

Thanks for sharing this link - although, I have to admit that its content will give me a sleepless night! They are not allowing passengers on board in Hongkong who have been to mainland China 30 days before sailing. And further down this notice it says: " At this time, there are no changes to our itineraries." They must be kidding us! We have Shanghai, Tianjin and Dailan in our 18 March departure itinerary! I think OC is becoming a big scam!!!

What part of "you're not going to mainland China"  do you not understand? And, again, you will not get the "official" changes (most likely S. Korea  and Japan) notice until all replacement port specifics (that also affect passengers who will be continuing from the preceding segment when you join the ship) are finalized.

 

BTW, it's not just Oceania who is banning folks that have recently been in mainland China.

[jcinma]

Important Itinerary Update Dear Valued Guests and Travel Advisors,   We would like to inform you of some very important itinerary modifications that have been made to Nautica’s March 18, 2020 voyage from Hong Kong to Tokyo.  This itinerary update also applies to guests on our March 4th and March 18th Extended Journey voyages.    To ensure the continued health and safety of our guests and crew, and in an abundance of caution with the current outbreak of Coronavirus, we will be bypassing all ports of call in mainland China, specifically Shanghai, Beijing, and Dalian.   In their place, we have crafted a revised itinerary that includes a bevy of remarkable ports includingJeju, Seoul, and Busan in South Korea, and Sakaiminato and Moji in Japan.    The new, revised portion of the itinerary is detailed below for your reference. To thank you for your understanding with this prudent change, you will receive a US$250 per guest shipboard credit which will be added to your account within the next few days.   DATE PORT COUNTRY ARRIVE DEPART 18-Mar Hong Kong China   9:00 PM 19-Mar At Sea       20-Mar Taipei Taiwan 8:00 AM 7:00 PM 21-Mar Ishigaki Japan 7:00 AM 5:00 PM 22-Mar At Sea       23-Mar Kagoshima Japan 7:00 AM 2:00 PM 24-Mar Jeju South Korea 8:00 AM 2:00 PM 25-Mar Seoul South Korea 9:00 AM 10:00 PM 26-Mar At Sea       27-Mar Busan South Korea 8:00 AM 6:00 PM 28-Mar Sakaiminato Japan 9:00 AM 6:00 PM 29-Mar Moji Japan 10:00 AM 8:00 PM 30-Mar Nagasaki Japan 8:00 AM 6:00 PM 31-Mar Hakata Japan 8:00 AM 7:00 PM 1-Apr Hososhima Japan 10:00 AM 8:00 PM 2-Apr At Sea       3-Apr Tokyo Japan 8 AM Disembark   Shore excursions you had reserved with Oceania Cruises for Shanghai, Beijing, and Dalian will be refunded to your credit card on file, where applicable. Shore excursions for the newly added ports will be available online shortly.   Important Note: Guests who have made their air arrangements independently are solely responsible for ensuring that none of their flights are routed through mainland China.  Guests having traveled through mainland China within 30 days of the voyage will be denied embarkation.   Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to call your travel advisor or Oceania Cruises.   We thank you for your understanding of this prudent and important change.                        Sincerely, Carlos Ortega Vice President, Guest Services Oceania Cruises   Our TA received this today from Oceania. No mention is made about a credit for future cruise is we don’t want this itinerary. It is still departing from HK. I will continue to monitor CDC and State dept. alerts. It s still a wait and see.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

12 hours ago, TrulyBlonde said:

Yes, but you are my friend and I know why you look. You are free to keep stalking because you and Jim have my best interests. xo

Speaking of Jim, he is visiting Palazzo Danneskjold next week...

[Paulchili]

Oceania is now accepting apologies.

Who will be first?😀

[Flatbush Flyer]

13 hours ago, irr said:

For those that think that Hong Kong is not part of the global response to this epidemic. American Airlines has just suspended flight to Hong Kong until February 20. https://news.yahoo.com/american-airlines-suspends-flights-hong-122619325.html

So, if you're caught up on this thread, you now know that you're ship is not going to maInland China but is substituting some S. Korea/Japan ports. However, Hong Kong is still in the mix. 

With an assumption that the $250/person SBC is not going to appease you, the question still remains: Are you going?

[irr]

okay. So this is what Oceania wants us to do 

Currently this is where we stand. We are now being financially pressured to go on a cruise in which on the day we leave we do not know if we will be able to get any airline seat  out of Hong Kong when the cruise is over.  If we develop even the slightest congestion or low grade fever due to a sinus infection after traveling for over 24 hours that will prohibit us from getting on the cruise ship and we are on our own to figure out what to do in Singapore.  Norwegian's policy is now saying "Passengers who show symptoms of any respiratory illness on board will receive a coronavirus screening and may be quarantined or removed from their ship,"  (I am sure all the countries along the way are excited to take sick travelers from cruise ships to take care of. We are at risk for prolonged quarantine as there are no restrictions for people coming from Hong Kong getting on the trip similar to the Princess cruise ship that remains quarantined, and it is being reported  that 10 people have tested positive for the virus.  The person who got sick on board that ship who was from Hong Kong did not have a fever when he boarded. We are at risk of being unable to get health care in Hong Kong if we get sick for any reason because the system is overwhelmed.  In addition, given the prolonged incubation period with risk of  infectiousness prior to or with minimal symptoms after our nonrefundable 4 day stay in Hong Kong which we booked with Oceania we may place others at risk when we get home or during our flight home. We also don't know if any ports may not allow us on shore if someone on board gets sick or they change their policy about their ports. We don't know if the 14 day quarantine period in effect for main land China will change while we are away putting us in a situation in which we will be quarantined upon our return home. (There are currently more cases in Hong Kong than in most cities in main land China. )

 

Who would want to be forced to take this trip for themselves or a family member and what neighbor or friend would like to be exposed to us after our return home? Is this what people would want for themselves, their parents or their grandparents?  In addition I volunteer  at a free clinic as well as an educational program for senior professionals and would place patients and participants at risk  if I ultimately develop coronavirus but am initially asymptomatic while contagious. Do I just automatically isolate myself for 14 days when I come home and tell everyone to cancel my volunteer work? 

 

Great travel plan for something supposed to be a vacation.  This is a significant risk to US citizens for no reason. This places a potential further burden on a health care system in Hong Kong already overwhelmed if any significant number or people on the cruise get sick. Looking at the map and the data Hong Kong is a geopolitical distinction without a medical difference. CDC has clearly made some political decisions distinguishing the two but most non government health care professionals are not buying that. 

 

Am I going? What do you think? What would you want for your parents or someone you cared about either as a passenger or close contact to a passenger after they get home? 

 

[irr]

We are on the cruise from Singapore to Hong Kong Leaving March 4 not the cruise listed above