Norwegian....Take notice! A despicable policy.

[Newleno]

36 minutes ago, brovol said:

Ummm, no; I never gave that hypothetical (kitchen remodel).  Follow along....

what do you want me to follow about your hypothetical?,  about your contractor not eating or something?,  Please continue  

Edited April 2, 2020 by Newleno

[Jobeth66]

 

 

1 hour ago, brovol said:

I do become a bit curious reading some posts here, even though I understand people being upset.  Honestly though, if your cruise wasn't cancelled, the money you spent on it would be gone.  I get that you don't want to wait for it now, but it shouldn't be that anyone needs it to survive, since it wouldn't have been in the budget at this point regardless.  In a few months it will be like saved money.

 

Except when people paid their money, maybe they had jobs they don't have now. 

 

Or maybe, if I don't get the service I pay for I expect my money back immediately after the deadline agreed to in the exchange is passed.  Not an unreasonable position.  If I get what I paid for?  Yes, then the money is gone.  And I have something in exchange.  If I don't get what I pay for?  I have...nothing.

 

I also love that we are always told to have 3-6 months of liquid funds on hand to cover expenses in the event something happens (like a job loss or a major life event, etc).  The cruise lines should have the same 3-6 months of full operating expenses available, right?  Those operating expenses are now about zero since much of the staff is furloughed and many of the ships are just sitting at dock.  Fuel and food expenses are nothing.  They should have tons of funds available that they wouldn't otherwise expect to have.

[spanishguy1970]

4 hours ago, jingle5616 said:

You have read wrong.  NCL is toast.  Their cash burn is far to much for the amount of cash on hand.

specially since they built a new ship every 2 years, i bet the debts are outstanding.

[mianmike]

2 hours ago, julig22 said:

You do not get your money back when you file a dispute.  You get a temporary credit until the case is resolved.  Once a dispute is filed, you get a credit and the bank file a claim with NCL.  NCL now has 30 days to respond, either with an approval for the amount or an objection to the claim.  If NCL says OK, the claim is closed and now you have the money.  If NCL objects and says we are processing the claim according to our terms of refund, the claim is closed and the credits are reversed.  If you appeal, you get another credit and the bank goes back to NCL and the process continues. 

At this point, it is pure speculation on how NCL will handle chargebacks.  They have nothing to lose by denying any claims, because they are charged a fee regardless of whether or not the chargeback it legitimate, so a denial will buy them time, just at holding on to your money buys them time.

 

A few clarifications.  Once you file a chargeback the money is automatically debited from the merchant.  Different card issuers have different deadlines to dispute the chargeback.  AMEX and Discover are 20 days.  If the merchant does nothing, the chargeback becomes permanent. There is no automatic investigation.  To reverse the chargeback the merchant must prove the charge is valid.  There's the rub.  How does NCL prove the charge is valid if a cruise was cancelled and the cruise date has passed?  

[julig22]

8 minutes ago, mianmike said:

 

A few clarifications.  Once you file a chargeback the money is automatically debited from the merchant.  Different card issuers have different deadlines to dispute the chargeback.  AMEX and Discover are 20 days.  If the merchant does nothing, the chargeback becomes permanent. There is no automatic investigation.  To reverse the chargeback the merchant must prove the charge is valid.  There's the rub.  How does NCL prove the charge is valid if a cruise was cancelled and the cruise date has passed?  

I stand corrected on the timeline for a merchant to respond - it varies from 20 days up to 45.

https://www.chargebackgurus.com/blog/dont-run-out-the-clock-understanding-chargeback-time-limits

NCL can respond that they are processing refunds per their agreement and that could close the dispute.  Somebody has already posted on another discussion that their chargeback (Amex I think) was denied and they are waiting for the followup letter with the reason.

[mnsweeps]

29 minutes ago, julig22 said:

I stand corrected on the timeline for a merchant to respond - it varies from 20 days up to 45.

https://www.chargebackgurus.com/blog/dont-run-out-the-clock-understanding-chargeback-time-limits

NCL can respond that they are processing refunds per their agreement and that could close the dispute.  Somebody has already posted on another discussion that their chargeback (Amex I think) was denied and they are waiting for the followup letter with the reason.

 

and my agreement was refund within 7 to 14 days. NCL broke thats and its been over a month now and I still don't see a refund.

[julig22]

12 minutes ago, mnsweeps said:

 

and my agreement was refund within 7 to 14 days. NCL broke thats and its been over a month now and I still don't see a refund.

Then you might have a legitimate reason to file for a chargeback.  For those who requested a refund and were told 90 days, like the OP, any chargeback request might be denied until after the 90 days has passed.

[Murph269]

1 hour ago, julig22 said:

I stand corrected on the timeline for a merchant to respond - it varies from 20 days up to 45.

https://www.chargebackgurus.com/blog/dont-run-out-the-clock-understanding-chargeback-time-limits

NCL can respond that they are processing refunds per their agreement and that could close the dispute.  Somebody has already posted on another discussion that their chargeback (Amex I think) was denied and they are waiting for the followup letter with the reason.

Per what “agreement”? For there to be an agreement, both sides need to consent to it. I never agreed to have to wait 14 days to even officially fill out their form to request the refund, and then wait another 90 days minimum to actually receive my refund. This was a one sided, arbitrary, timeline established by NCL that I never agreed to as the consumer. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Murph269

[luv2kroooz]

4 hours ago, julig22 said:

If NCL objects and says we are processing the claim according to our terms of refund, the claim is closed and the credits are reversed. 

Wrong. NCL loses that objection every time. If it's been over 30 days since they cancelled the cruise and the dispute was opened, the claim might be closed, but the credits are not getting reversed. These credit card companies work with refunds every day. They know they don't take more than 30 days.

[julig22]

3 minutes ago, blcruising said:

Wrong. NCL loses that objection every time. If it's been over 30 days since they cancelled the cruise and the dispute was opened, the claim might be closed, but the credits are not getting reversed. These credit card companies work with refunds every day. They know they don't take more than 30 days.

I will bow to your obvious VAST experience in CC disputes.  In my limited experience, if the merchant denies the claim, for the reason I cited or any other reason, the denial goes back to the customer to accept or dispute.

"NCL loses that objection every time." The only way you would know that is if you worked for NCL - so come clean....  Already 1 report on CC of a denied chargeback...

[luv2kroooz]

1 minute ago, julig22 said:

I will bow to your obvious VAST experience in CC disputes.  

Wrong again, I charge and pay for hundreds of transactions every year without need for dispute. When I have the need to make a dispute, it gets the appropriate attention from my credit card company. My limited experience with disputes actually lends credibility to the rare occasion a merchant, like NCL, tries to give me grief.

[mianmike]

26 minutes ago, julig22 said:

I will bow to your obvious VAST experience in CC disputes.  In my limited experience, if the merchant denies the claim, for the reason I cited or any other reason, the denial goes back to the customer to accept or dispute.

"NCL loses that objection every time." The only way you would know that is if you worked for NCL - so come clean....  Already 1 report on CC of a denied chargeback...

 

If I select "I'm expecting a credit" as the reason for chargeback, how does NCL argue you are not due a credit?

[julig22]

Just now, mianmike said:

 

If I select "I'm expecting a credit" as the reason for chargeback, how does NCL argue you are not due a credit?

They aren't going to argue that you aren't due a credit.  They could argue that you have already requested a credit (assuming you have) and that it will be processed per their refund policies whatever they are now or were - pretty sure NCL legal has gone over their options.  That would be adequate information for a CC to close the case.  NCL does have to verify all of the refunds that they send out - some are simple, some are quite complex, so they have to do the research regardless of whether or not it is from a dispute or from your original request.

[mianmike]

2 minutes ago, julig22 said:

They aren't going to argue that you aren't due a credit.  They could argue that you have already requested a credit (assuming you have) and that it will be processed per their refund policies whatever they are now or were - pretty sure NCL legal has gone over their options.  That would be adequate information for a CC to close the case.  NCL does have to verify all of the refunds that they send out - some are simple, some are quite complex, so they have to do the research regardless of whether or not it is from a dispute or from your original request.

 

You and I differ on really only one thing:  You say the credit card company is fine with a merchant intentionally slow-walking a refund and will overturn the chargeback. (If my CC company behaves that way; time to look for another company)  I say the CC company is not okay with the merchant's intentional delay and will not overturn the chargeback.

 

Neither of us know for sure.  Each credit card company may treat it differently. Only time will tell. 

[Newleno]

17 minutes ago, julig22 said:

They aren't going to argue that you aren't due a credit.  They could argue that you have already requested a credit (assuming you have) and that it will be processed per their refund policies whatever they are now or were - pretty sure NCL legal has gone over their options.  That would be adequate information for a CC to close the case.  NCL does have to verify all of the refunds that they send out - some are simple, some are quite complex, so they have to do the research regardless of whether or not it is from a dispute or from your original request.

perhaps someone in the know, knows the best category to select in order to get the best results,  "I didnt receive the merchandise/service as agreed"  seems like a winner to me but I have no knowledge of chargebacks, so more of a talking point for the rest of you guys

[SeaShark]

4 minutes ago, Newleno said:

perhaps someone in the know, knows the best category to select in order to get the best results,  "I didnt receive the merchandise/service as agreed"  seems like a winner to me but I have no knowledge of chargebacks, so more of a talking point for the rest of you guys

 

How about selecting the TRUTH? 

 

You and NCL agreed upon a price and you paid it. No dispute there.

Once the cruise was cancelled, NCL offered a refund and you want a refund. No dispute there.

 

The key behind the chargeback process is the need for a dispute concerning the amount charged. It isn't to be used when the parties agree.

 

You just don't want to wait. It is as simple as that. The ONLY issue here is time.

 

Select "Other reason for this dispute" since "Impatience" isn't listed.

[Newleno]

8 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

How about selecting the TRUTH? 

 

You and NCL agreed upon a price and you paid it. No dispute there.

Once the cruise was cancelled, NCL offered a refund and you want a refund. No dispute there.

 

The key behind the chargeback process is the need for a dispute concerning the amount charged. It isn't to be used when the parties agree.

 

You just don't want to wait. It is as simple as that. The ONLY issue here is time.

 

Select "Other reason for this dispute" since "Impatience" isn't listed.

the argument is i paid for a cruise the cruise was cancelled I want my money back for services not rendered, this is not a hard concept to understand  and it is 100 percent the truth.  your answer was of no benefit, the question was directed at people in the know about how to get the refund.  Easy Peasy Quick and Easy EPQE

[ukbecky]

14 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

 

 

Select "Other reason for this dispute" since "Impatience" isn't listed.

 

When does it stop being"Impatience"?

100 days? 200 days? 2 years?

 

How long is NCL allowed to keep the cash just because they can/choose to?

[NLH Arizona]

39 minutes ago, Newleno said:

perhaps someone in the know, knows the best category to select in order to get the best results,  "I didnt receive the merchandise/service as agreed"  seems like a winner to me but I have no knowledge of chargebacks, so more of a talking point for the rest of you guys

I'd say the best is to be honest; expecting a credit.  If you are not honest, it might look like you are trying to double dip.

[Love my butler]

14 minutes ago, ukbecky said:

 

When does it stop being"Impatience"?

100 days? 200 days? 2 years?

 

How long is NCL allowed to keep the cash just because they can/choose to?

I bet a court of law would agree 30 days is reasonable.  60 days is the absolute maximum.

[Newleno]

3 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I'd say the best is to be honest; expecting a credit.  If you are not honest, it might look like you are trying to double dip.

there are 3 categories that are very similar, plus other, all would be the truth,  "what we have here is a failure to communicate"  This question was specifically for anyone that might be in the know, and it was listed as such. those are the facts jack

[ColeThornton]

1 minute ago, Newleno said:

there are 3 categories that are very similar, plus other, all would be the truth,  "what we have here is a failure to communicate"  This question was specifically for anyone that might be in the know, and it was listed as such. those are the facts jack

 

"Cool Hand Luke" and "Stripes" references?   Well done!  🙂

[sfaaa]

46 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

 

 

You just don't want to wait. It is as simple as that. The ONLY issue here is time.

 

 

Yes, I agree. And to be more specific, this usually means within a reasonable amount of time which can be subjective and not necessary means 30 days or less.

[julig22]

15 minutes ago, Love my butler said:

I bet a court of law would agree 30 days is reasonable.  60 days is the absolute maximum.

Since it appears that many, if not all of the the cruise lines are saying 90 days, probably not.  Not a lawyer though.

 

But they would probably agree that filing a dispute just because someone didn't like it when they requested a refund and were told 90 days, without waiting for 30 or 60 days, is unreasonable.

[sfaaa]

22 minutes ago, Love my butler said:

I bet a court of law would agree 30 days is reasonable.  60 days is the absolute maximum.

Unless you can cite a precedent legal case that says 60 days is max, I am not sure a judge will agree with you.