NSW Social Distancing

[MicCanberra]

Fair enough. 

[subaru94]

Apparently Carnival Ships are looking at sailing with fewer passengers initially when they come back cruising?

[OzKiwiJJ]

That would be sensible. 

 

The cruise lines have been focusing too much on more cabins and less public areas. I noticed that in particular with Ruby Princess, with it's extra deck of cabins compared with Diamond Princess. Golden Princess fell somewhere in between as the Wheelhouse Bar is smaller, and the Royal class ships are even worse than Ruby.

[MicCanberra]

I would imagine there being all sorts of restrictions in place, a few that I think (guess) would be

• Certificates of travel issued by a doctor, like the Yellow Fever ones but for Covid (shows you have been clean or vaccinated).
• Age restrictions, 
• Country of residence (only certain countries allowed to go on that particular cruise at first)

[bazzaw]

Just a few little statistics - not in any way meant to imply that we should be blase about this virus , but we do need some balance. Two pithy saying come to my mind - firstly that "The fear of dying can be worse than dying itself" and secondly that "Sometimes the cure can cause  more damage than the disease"  First stat - so far this year 5 people in Queensland have had their deaths attributed to Coronavirus - in the same period 52 people have died on Qld roads.  Second stat - about 102,000 deaths Worldwide have been attributed to Coronavirus . In 1918, estimates of deaths from the Spanish Flu are from 20 million to 100 million  - BUT today, World population is five times larger than that of 1918. I think we have a LONG LONG way to go before we get anywhere near the impact of the 1918 Flu. 

 

At age 73, and having led a very fortunate and good life to now, I have come to the belief that we all now have forgotten that we die (or at least it is not a subject of polite conversation. Not to be thought of too much!  Something to be avoided ) 🙂 . We all say "Oh we know that!" - but the immediacy of dying has been lost on us with all the medical developments over the last 60 years. Get something bad today and you might die - but more likely they will fix you up for at least some further time. My father died over 60 years ago at age 32 of a Kidney disease. One day he was healthy and hale and the next week he was dead. Today he probably wouldn't have died!!!  Not quite so early anyway!!  Why am I saying this and revealing such inner thoughts ??  Well, they say that life is like a London Bus- you know that it is coming, but you don't know exactly when it is going to arrive.  One thing is for sure though - don't be surprised when it does show up and be ready to get on!!!!!   

 

 

[MicCanberra]

True, one reason why I avoid London.

[MMDown Under]

I for one can't bare it, if, at this early stage, people are saying there mightn't be a vaccine.  All these brilliant people, from around the world, are working on the development of a vaccine.  They deserve our respect and trust.  Loud clapping for the dedicated medical professionals and staff throughout the world.

Edited April 11, 2020 by MMDown Under

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, bazzaw said:

Second stat - about 102,000 deaths Worldwide have been attributed to Coronavirus . In 1918, estimates of deaths from the Spanish Flu are from 20 million to 100 million  - BUT today, World population is five times larger than that of 1918. I think we have a LONG LONG way to go before we get anywhere near the impact of the 1918 Flu.

 

The Spanish Flu is exactly why countries are placing the restrictions they are. When the Spanish Flu hit it was the middle of WWI. Because of the need to keep up morale they censored anything to do with the flu and ultimately any attempts to stop the spread was little to nothing. Nobody was going to stop the soldiers travelling from country to country so it really had free range to spread how it wanted. Only a few countries did anything to stop the spread and then like now those with the strictest restrictions had the lower death rates. The Spanish Flu is in many ways a lesson in what not do to.

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

I for one can't bare it, if, at this early stage, people are saying there mightn't be a vaccine.  All these brilliant people, from around the world, are working on the development of a vaccine.  They deserve our respect and trust.  Loud clapping for the dedicated medical professionals and staff throughout the world.

 

Somewhere I read that at 8pm in Italy people start cheering and clapping the healthcare workers from their windows and balconies. I have seen pictures of wonderful banners showing their love for the healthcare workers🤗.

[Pushka]

The old BCG vaccination has been given to Covid health workers in Adelaide as a trial today. There is so much research being done. 

[MicCanberra]

I had no idea what BCG vaccine was so I googled it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/bcg-vaccine-how-a-100-year-old-vaccine-for-tuberculosis-could-help-fight-covid-19/ar-BB12oL2m

 

[possum52]

36 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

The Spanish Flu is exactly why countries are placing the restrictions they are. When the Spanish Flu hit it was the middle of WWI. Because of the need to keep up morale they censored anything to do with the flu and ultimately any attempts to stop the spread was little to nothing. Nobody was going to stop the soldiers travelling from country to country so it really had free range to spread how it wanted. Only a few countries did anything to stop the spread and then like now those with the strictest restrictions had the lower death rates. The Spanish Flu is in many ways a lesson in what not do to.

A correction, the Spanish flu pandemic started in January 1918, the last year of the war. As you said it did spread with troop movements and it was most likely returning servicemen and nurses brought it back to Australia. There was a strict quarantine on shipping and it probably explains why many service personnel didn’t arrive back in Australia until later in 1919. My great aunt died from Spanish flu in May 1919 aged 25. It’s also thought the Spanish flu originated in the USA and brought to Europe by their servicemen.  

 

Leigh

Edited April 11, 2020 by possum52

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, possum52 said:

A correction, the Spanish flu pandemic started in January 1918, the last year of the war. As you said it did spread with troop movements and it was most likely returning servicemen and nurses brought it back to Australia. There was a strict quarantine on shipping and it probably explains why many service personnel didn’t arrive back in Australia until later in 1919. My great aunt died from Spanish flu in May 1919 aged 25. It’s also thought the Spanish flu originated in the USA and brought to Europe by their servicemen.  

 

Leigh

 

Actually we don't know for sure when it started because of all the censorship. There is some reports of some flu like symptoms that knocked people down really fast in the late 1917  but if those reports were followed up no one documented the evidence. As for quarantine apparently it wasn't that strict. It was reported that service men broke it all the time as there was no repercussions. Australia's handling of the Spanish Flu was a shambles, it also didn't help we were coming off the back of a war and had no supplies or medical personal. We are definitely in a better position with COVID 19 and can put all our focus on fighting this infection. That's why I think comparing this pandemic with the 1918 Flu is problematic, the world was in a much more difficult situation to fight that disease effectively and it most likely contributed to its incredible numbers of infected..

[MMDown Under]

9 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Somewhere I read that at 8pm in Italy people start cheering and clapping the healthcare workers from their windows and balconies. I have seen pictures of wonderful banners showing their love for the healthcare workers🤗.

Yes, I've seen the Italian people on TV, also the British people as well.  

[MicCanberra]

Perhaps they should be applauded whenever you feel like it, not just at 8pm.

 

[Kiwi Kruzer]

13 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Somewhere I read that at 8pm in Italy people start cheering and clapping the healthcare workers from their windows and balconies. I have seen pictures of wonderful banners showing their love for the healthcare workers🤗.

They do the same in New York .

Its really bad there as most people are used to eating out or takeaways .

[Pushka]

13 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

I had no idea what BCG vaccine was so I googled it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/bcg-vaccine-how-a-100-year-old-vaccine-for-tuberculosis-could-help-fight-covid-19/ar-BB12oL2m

 

You would have had one as a 12 year old. Do you have a little scar on your left upper arm? We had to do a Mantoux test first, which was done in the elbow crease. If that was positive then you'd been exposed to TB. And so had to be checked out at the TB clinic. If it was negative then you had the BCG. I know I had one. 

[LittleFish1976]

16 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

I for one can't bare it, if, at this early stage, people are saying there mightn't be a vaccine.  All these brilliant people, from around the world, are working on the development of a vaccine.  They deserve our respect and trust.  Loud clapping for the dedicated medical professionals and staff throughout the world.

I felt discouraged about a vaccine having read some negative things about the possibility of there being one recently but having done more on-line 'research' over the last couple of days, I now feel more encouraged that there will be one. So many organisations, all around the world, are taking various routes towards its development. So whatever technology they have to deploy, whatever route of administration (shot in the arm or nasal insertion), or whether it takes an annual dose of the vaccone, I trust that the scientists will come up with something.

 

I watched an interesting on-line forum recording done by the CSIRO. They have a website with all sorts of links there. Very informative frankly reassuring.

 

Don't give up hope. Life will be normal again one day.

 

And we do need to do whatever we can to help and support our medical people. To think they are literally putting their lives at risk every time they go to work while they are trying to save our lives.

[MMDown Under]

29 minutes ago, Pushka said:

You would have had one as a 12 year old. Do you have a little scar on your left upper arm? We had to do a Mantoux test first, which was done in the elbow crease. If that was positive then you'd been exposed to TB. And so had to be checked out at the TB clinic. If it was negative then you had the BCG. I know I had one. 

Me too. 2 part process.

[possum52]

30 minutes ago, Pushka said:

You would have had one as a 12 year old. Do you have a little scar on your left upper arm? We had to do a Mantoux test first, which was done in the elbow crease. If that was positive then you'd been exposed to TB. And so had to be checked out at the TB clinic. If it was negative then you had the BCG. I know I had one. 

I think the BCG vaccination was stopped being given as part of the childhood vaccination program around the mid 1980s as my children didn't have it. Although I think it was continued into the 90s in the NT.

 

Leigh

[Aus Traveller]

14 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

I had no idea what BCG vaccine was so I googled it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/bcg-vaccine-how-a-100-year-old-vaccine-for-tuberculosis-could-help-fight-covid-19/ar-BB12oL2m

 

Very interesting. In Australia, school children were vaccinated against TB (BCG) at age 12 in the 1950s. My first thought on reading the suggestion that BCG vaccination could protect against COVID, was that there shouldn't be any deaths in older people in Australia who lived here during their primary school years. However, on researching it, the matter isn't so simple. Here are details of the vaccination programme: 

 

Initially in 1948, vaccination targeted health care workers, Aboriginal people and close contacts of active cases, especially children. In the 1950s the program was expanded to include all Australian school children except those from New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory. This policy was discontinued in the mid-1980s (1991 in the Northern Territory) in favour of a more selective approach. The change occurred because of the low prevalence of TB in our community and concerns about the balance between the benefits and the risks.

[Pushka]

4 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Very interesting. In Australia, school children were vaccinated against TB (BCG) at age 12 in the 1950s. My first thought on reading the suggestion that BCG vaccination could protect against COVID, was that there shouldn't be any deaths in older people in Australia who lived here during their primary school years. However, on researching it, the matter isn't so simple. Here are details of the vaccination programme: 

 

Initially in 1948, vaccination targeted health care workers, Aboriginal people and close contacts of active cases, especially children. In the 1950s the program was expanded to include all Australian school children except those from New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory. This policy was discontinued in the mid-1980s (1991 in the Northern Territory) in favour of a more selective approach. The change occurred because of the low prevalence of TB in our community and concerns about the balance between the benefits and the risks.

My son was born in Sri Lanka in the '80s and he had the immunisation at birth. Of course when he arrived into Australia he had a positive Mantoux test. Health wanted him as a baby to have all sorts of tests refusing to acknowledge the paperwork showing he had the BCG. Finally our GP said no way to treating him with multiple xrays then heavy duty antibiotics. 
 

Sadly the BCG only lasts for 15 years. 

[Aus Traveller]

4 minutes ago, Pushka said:

 Sadly the BCG only lasts for 15 years. 

When I read the suggestion that BCG might protect against COVID I thought "Beauty. We both had the vaccination when we were children". 👍 Then I read Pushka's comment that it only lasts for 15 years.☹️

 

An article on the internet says "up to 20 years", but it also says "then effects start to wane". Maybe we would have a tiny bit of protection??? 🙂 If BCG protects against COVID, my husband asked "Why did we get Swine Flu (a COVID flu)?" We were sick, but not terribly sick. Maybe we had partial protection. My husband commented "Instead of cowering under the bed and barely peeping out, now we will just be cowering under the bed."😁

 

[By The Bay]

For those hoping for a vaccine, along with me, here is a sobering article from the ABC. For the full article click here.

 

Is it possible we won't get a COVID-19 vaccine?

Yes, it's possible, Dr Labzin said. Every virus is different and what has worked in the past may not work for the new coronavirus.

 

"We don't have vaccines against any coronavirus yet," she said.

 

SARS, MERS and some forms of the common cold are caused by other coronaviruses.

 

[Pushka]

25 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

 

An article on the internet says "up to 20 years", but it also says "then effects start to wane". Maybe we would have a tiny bit of protection??? 🙂 If BCG protects against COVID, my husband asked "Why did we get Swine Flu (a COVID flu)?" We were sick, but not terribly sick. Maybe we had partial protection. My husband commented "Instead of cowering under the bed and barely peeping out, now we will just be cowering under the bed."😁

 

Hey, I'll take any inkling of hope right now. Let's go with that. Did you get Swine flu? I thought us oldies were protected from that and it was the youngies at risk! Doing the reverse - Maybe you are safe from this covid thing then?

Edited April 12, 2020 by Pushka