CMV cease trading

[terrierjohn]

33 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

Makes you wonder how much P&O prices will increase when the new 2022/3 cruises go on sale

Just out of interest we looked at the advert for a special Daily Mail readers offer for a 35nt 2022 round trip Caribbean cruise on Ventura, Balcony prices started at £6500pp versus the launch brochure price of £4399, which came out in October last year.

[Britboys]

35 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

Makes you wonder how much P&O prices will increase when the new 2022/3 cruises go on sale

I think the fares on their larger ships will be held down to get some deposits coming in to help the cash flow. With only 2 smaller ships now, I fear the prices on those may have a significant increase.

[terrierjohn]

Just now, Britboys said:

I think the fares on their larger ships will be held down to get some deposits coming in to help the cash flow. With only 2 smaller ships now, I fear the prices on those may have a significant increase.

My earlier post seems to scotch that idea.

[Britboys]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Just out of interest we looked at the advert for a special Daily Mail readers offer for a 35nt 2022 round trip Caribbean cruise on Ventura, Balcony prices started at £6500pp versus the launch brochure price of £4399, which came out in October last year.

I expect a lot of people have used FCC's or transferred deposits to cruises in early 2022 as they are already on sale.

[wowzz]

27 minutes ago, Britboys said:

It is very expensive but you have to remember that this is a rarely-offered itinerary. I don't know when Fred last visited the Black Sea but as I mentioned above, this year's has been cancelled and at present, there doesn't seem to be one on offer in 2021. P&O don't seem to do a round-trip Black Sea cruise any more and obviously the CMV one for next year has gone.

I can see the attraction of the itinerary, but for that money I would a more luxurious ship than Balmoral.

[wowzz]

28 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Just out of interest we looked at the advert for a special Daily Mail readers offer for a 35nt 2022 round trip Caribbean cruise on Ventura, Balcony prices started at £6500pp versus the launch brochure price of £4399, which came out in October last year.

We paid that sort of price for a deluxe balcony, 35 day round trip to the US and Carribbean in Jan 21, booked early 2019. (We've since cancelled). Shows how prices have gone up.

[No pager thank you]

To be honest, if the P&O 2022/23 brochure launch prices are anywhere near as inflated as that, then you have to hope that people with unredeemed FCCs have the sense to claim cash refunds.  No way we will be paying that price at all.

 

£18k for a balcony on Balmoral...

Near £200 a night on Ventura is a "deal" - come on...🤔

 

Without exaggeration those are 5* hotel prices and flights are cheap at the moment...

[Windsurfboy]

We will just have to wait till the 125% FCC  works it's way out of the system. All cruise lines are increasing prices to recoup the 25% "gift". Cash buyers will have to wait till 23/24 season or be fleeced.

[No pager thank you]

2 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

We will just have to wait till the 125% FCC  works it's way out of the system. All cruise lines are increasing prices to recoup the 25% "gift". Cash buyers will have to wait till 23/24 season or be fleeced.

I agree...just that the % increase is in many cases higher than 25%, so basically everyone gets fleeced, just a bit less if you have a FCC.

 

Assuming that we don't get cancelled, we have bookings in until March 2022 at fair prices - if 2022/23 has to be a "fallow" year or we have to be savvy then so be it.  Already planning to be more open minded beyond P&O because of refunds/customer service.

[Bazrat]

The prices for 22/23 if they are as expensive as people say will certainly price a good few of there customer base out, we don’t really do brand loyalty hence why we have a princess cruise booked for next year as well as P&O.

[No pager thank you]

5 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

The prices for 22/23 if they are as expensive as people say will certainly price a good few of there customer base out, we don’t really do brand loyalty hence why we have a princess cruise booked for next year as well as P&O.

I agree.  The bit that I am struggling to understand is, assuming that 2021 features more cruises than 2020 (hardly a high bar), then fewer cruises will be cancelled and fewer FCCs will be given out, hopefully a good thing for all.  

 

Many 2020 FCC holders will seek to redeem in 2021, also good for people and cruise lines.  Let us ignore the argument that people won't be vaccinated until the year 3021 (give or take) bit for a moment as a bit of a red herring, even if it proves true....

 

However, at the time when people will be asked to book 2022 cruises on Carnival lines, let's say Winter 2020, we will both likely to be in the midsts of a recession, and have lower customer confidence about cruising.  Capacity in many cases is going up, not down, with newer ships entering fleets which are larger than the ones which they replace.

 

I can understand cruise lines wanting to restore margins and recoup FCCs, but unless this is a collective move and/or international travel follows suit, then surely demand for cruising is affected?

 

Lower demand, lower prices to fill bigger ships.  Price competitively, or leave the stage.

 

How does this lead to 30% plus price rises in 2022/23, except for smaller, exclusive lines where people will be willing to pay more for exclusivity and a particular type of product?

[Bazrat]

27 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

I agree.  The bit that I am struggling to understand is, assuming that 2021 features more cruises than 2020 (hardly a high bar), then fewer cruises will be cancelled and fewer FCCs will be given out, hopefully a good thing for all.  

 

Many 2020 FCC holders will seek to redeem in 2021, also good for people and cruise lines.  Let us ignore the argument that people won't be vaccinated until the year 3021 (give or take) bit for a moment as a bit of a red herring, even if it proves true....

 

However, at the time when people will be asked to book 2022 cruises on Carnival lines, let's say Winter 2020, we will both likely to be in the midsts of a recession, and have lower customer confidence about cruising.  Capacity in many cases is going up, not down, with newer ships entering fleets which are larger than the ones which they replace.

 

I can understand cruise lines wanting to restore margins and recoup FCCs, but unless this is a collective move and/or international travel follows suit, then surely demand for cruising is affected?

 

Lower demand, lower prices to fill bigger ships.  Price competitively, or leave the stage.

 

How does this lead to 30% plus price rises in 2022/23, except for smaller, exclusive lines where people will be willing to pay more for exclusivity and a particular type of product?

Hopefully it will not take a thousand years to vaccinate everyone, but I agree with your point, the cruise industry makes a lot of money so should not take long to recoup there money if all goes well.

[wowzz]

4 hours ago, Bazrat said:

Hopefully it will not take a thousand years to vaccinate everyone, but I agree with your point, the cruise industry makes a lot of money so should not take long to recoup there money if all goes well.

Apart from the fact that the cruise industry has borrowed billions of dollars at 11.5% interest (or more).

 It will take years to get back to a truly profitable business,  unless you are prepared to accept a  EBITDA profit figure. And I don't think many people would!

[Bazrat]

3 hours ago, wowzz said:

Apart from the fact that the cruise industry has borrowed billions of dollars at 11.5% interest (or more).

 It will take years to get back to a truly profitable business,  unless you are prepared to accept a  EBITDA profit figure. And I don't think many people would!

I would hazard the guess they would refinance the debt when they start trading again,but it all depends how quickly they restart.

[Ardennais]

On 7/22/2020 at 10:23 AM, wowzz said:

I can see the attraction of the itinerary, but for that money I would a more luxurious ship than Balmoral.

So would I, and I’ve actually cruised in a balcony on Balmoral on a rare good deal. 

[jeanlyon]

On 7/22/2020 at 10:23 AM, wowzz said:

I can see the attraction of the itinerary, but for that money I would a more luxurious ship than Balmoral.

We did the Black Sea on Artemis.  It was a fantastic cruise with a great Captain, whose name escapes me.  He gave a running commentary through the Bosphorus.