NO UPDATES?

[zippyjet]

Last week the CDC extended the no sail order till at least Oct.1 I am or wa booked on the Seaside out of Miami Sept. 19. Its been apmost a week since the extension and, MSC has not updated or made cancellation announcents. I'm planning to take an FCC. Id go on a Nov. 7, 2020 sailing. But, with my fellow affected cruisers, it would be nice to know something. I have to let work know and change other travel arrangements. Curious to hear your replies/ideas. This will be my first MSC cruise. I called last night. Customer Service was friendly but they too are in the dark.

[zippyjet]

Right after starting this thread, MSC updated their web site. I'm hoping.

1. The CDC will not extend the NS order further.

2. I'll reschedule first week of 

November.

[mamaneedsavacay]

I would not count on being able to use an FCC that quickly. I applied for mine at the end of March and it has not yet been processed. I have been told that it's on record and that my Travel Agent can call and have it applied, but each time she has tried the MSC agent has told her that it is still in processing and cannot be applied until it is finished. Currently they can see that I have 100% credit and that I am due an additional 25% credit, but they can't access that 25% credit. Others have received theirs, so you may be okay, but you may not. 

[zippyjet]

Thank you for the reply. I'm hoping I can make it happen but, hey its the. S Show year 2020.

[mamaneedsavacay]

Good luck, zippyjet, I hope it works out for you!

[DCGuy64]

The CDC's order does not legally forbid cruise lines from operating. For example, a Bahamas-based line is allowed to operate because it presented an acceptable plan and was given the green light to sail. (FYI: I'm not accusing the OP of anything, but speaking with fellow travelers, a number of people seem to believe that the "No Sail Order" means no cruise line can sail until October 1. That's false). I'm hopeful that given the efforts underway by RCCL and NCL, as well as Carnival and MSC, more cruise lines can present acceptable COVID-19 plans and similarly resume sailing. Time will tell!

[sidari]

As long as the daily case numbers continue to increase in the USA the longer the ban will be in place.

Princess have cancelled may cruises to mid December.

[BermudaBound2014]

17 hours ago, zippyjet said:

Right after starting this thread, MSC updated their web site. I'm hoping.

1. The CDC will not extend the NS order further.

2. I'll reschedule first week of 

November.

 

Just a FYI: Princess  just announced they are not sailing until mid December at the earliest. I suspect others will follow. 

 

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

The CDC's order does not legally forbid cruise lines from operating. For example, a Bahamas-based line is allowed to operate because it presented an acceptable plan and was given the green light to sail. (FYI: I'm not accusing the OP of anything, but speaking with fellow travelers, a number of people seem to believe that the "No Sail Order" means no cruise line can sail until October 1. That's false). I'm hopeful that given the efforts underway by RCCL and NCL, as well as Carnival and MSC, more cruise lines can present acceptable COVID-19 plans and similarly resume sailing. Time will tell!

 

Actually, I don't believe this is entirely accurate. Bahama Paradise , the line you are referencing just extended its no sail order through October. This is a very small cruise line (2 ships) that only offer 2 night cruises. Even if they were beginning to sail, I'm not sure how reasonable of a comparison  this company is to the likes the Big 3. I do agree that it's a start, but as of today, the cruise line is not  operating, therefore, no start :(.

“As you know, we recently announced that we would finally return to sea this August – offering travelers the chance to enjoy a much-needed, two-night getaway to paradise. However, given the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) extension of its No Sail Order, we have no choice but to delay our resumption of cruise operations to October 1^st, 2020.

https://www.bahamasparadisecruise.com/press-room/media-alert-bahamas-paradise-cruise-line-to-resumesailings-october-1-2020/

 

 

It is true that the no sail order allows for cruise ships to propose a "No Sail Order Response Plan" for safe cruising.  Seven cruise lines did submit such a plan. However; the plan set forth by the cruise lines were deemed non-compliant for the following reasons:

 

"Areas of major concern included insufficient details for monitoring crew onboard; unspecified quantities of personal protective equipment, medical and laboratory supplies, and fever-reducing medications; incomplete plans to disembark asymptomatic crew safely; missing shoreside and onboard testing agreements, supplies, and protocols; not isolating symptomatic crew; failing to close self-service buffets, salons, gyms, and recreational water facilities; lack of ability to provide the required level of medical care; and implementing social distancing and other restrictions only when physically present in U.S. waters. "

 

So while 'technically' the no sail order doesn't forbid cruise ships from sailing, it forbids cruise ships from sailing UNTIL they put a NSO response plan that complies with the CDC.  

 

Personally, I have cancelled my January cruise as IMO the rules set forth by the CDC for cruise ships to begin sailing are monumental at best. I have captured all deposits and refunds and am holding until we see which lines survive and which don't. I'm convinced not all will survive, but that is just my opinion. 

[hamrag]

6 hours ago, sidari said:

.....Princess have cancelled may cruises to mid December.

 

Shouldn't that be many cruises, rather than may?

[BermudaBound2014]

15 minutes ago, hamrag said:

 

Shouldn't that be many cruises, rather than may?

 

Technically I believe it should read ALL. I believe princess has cancelled all cruises until mid December.

[hamrag]

57 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Technically I believe it should read ALL. I believe princess has cancelled all cruises until mid December.

No, it's definitely not ALL....not yet!!

 

https://www.princess.com/news/notices_and_advisories/notices/global-ship-operations-pause-december-2020.html

Edited July 23, 2020 by hamrag

[BermudaBound2014]

27 minutes ago, hamrag said:

No, it's definitely not ALL....not yet!!

 

https://www.princess.com/news/notices_and_advisories/notices/global-ship-operations-pause-december-2020.html

 

Thank you! I appreciate the correction.

 

Here are the specific cancellations if anyone is interested:

 

SANTA CLARITA, Calif. – Due to the continued progression of COVID-19 and related decisions of various government, health authorities, and airlines regarding travel restrictions, Princess Cruises is extending its pause in cruise operations impacting the following voyages:

• All cruises sailing in and out of Australia on Majestic Princess, Regal Princess, Sapphire Princess, Sea Princess, and Sun Princess through October 31, 2020
• All sailings in Asia, Caribbean, California Coast, Hawaii, Mexico, Panama Canal, South America & Antarctica, Japan, and Tahiti/South Pacific through December 15, 2020

 

And while we are at it, some on the MSC forum may be interested in Carnival cancellations, if only because it sets a trend for what is happening in the industry. Notice, some of these last until the spring of 2021 :(..... Sadly, I really starting to believe that is a likely date. 

 

https://cruiseradio.net/carnival-reveals-new-ship-deployment-changes-and-cancellations/

 

And NCL has started a new promotion ONLY for cruises after April 2021. I'm afraid bad writing is on the wall 😞

 

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by BermudaBound2014

[cruiser man 60]

As mentioned previously, Aida & TUI are restarting from Germany next week with no port stop cruises and new safety protocols. The chance of cruising in Europe seems more realistic this year but which ports is difficult to know, possibly Italy & France and related islands?

[hamrag]

10 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

.....some on the MSC forum may be interested in Carnival cancellations, if only because it sets a trend for what is happening in the industry. Notice, some of these last until the spring of 2021 :(..... Sadly, I really starting to believe that is a likely date.

 

I agree, it is increasingly looking like spring 2021.... at the earliest!  🤕

[Roger88]

18 minutes ago, hamrag said:

 

I agree, it is increasingly looking like spring 2021.... at the earliest!  🤕

Spring of 2021 is the earliest we can get. If by this time nothing changes I doubt there will be any changes until the end of the year AT ALL. I really hope for some good news in the upcoming months to make sure I can safely book a cruise this year for 2021 

[WH_Cruise]

Lol North America isnt going to be cruising for at least 12 months you are reporting 60,000 new cases per day, that is completely insane.

[eroller]

On 7/23/2020 at 10:18 AM, DCGuy64 said:

The CDC's order does not legally forbid cruise lines from operating. For example, a Bahamas-based line is allowed to operate because it presented an acceptable plan and was given the green light to sail. (FYI: I'm not accusing the OP of anything, but speaking with fellow travelers, a number of people seem to believe that the "No Sail Order" means no cruise line can sail until October 1. That's false). I'm hopeful that given the efforts underway by RCCL and NCL, as well as Carnival and MSC, more cruise lines can present acceptable COVID-19 plans and similarly resume sailing. Time will tell!

 

 

The US Coast Guard enforces CDC guidelines for cruise ships.  While the CDC order may not legally forbid cruise lines from operating, no cruise line will take the risk of the US Coast Guard boarding the ship and shutting it down.  That would be a PR disaster.  Also Bahamas Paradise Cruises has not been given the green light to sail with passengers.  They were only given the CDC green status for crew reparation efforts.  They have pushed back sailings until October 1, and even that is unlikely especially given the 14 day quarantine requirement by the Bahamas government.    

[eroller]

On 7/22/2020 at 6:12 PM, zippyjet said:

Last week the CDC extended the no sail order till at least Oct.1 I am or wa booked on the Seaside out of Miami Sept. 19. Its been apmost a week since the extension and, MSC has not updated or made cancellation announcents. I'm planning to take an FCC. Id go on a Nov. 7, 2020 sailing. But, with my fellow affected cruisers, it would be nice to know something. I have to let work know and change other travel arrangements. Curious to hear your replies/ideas. This will be my first MSC cruise. I called last night. Customer Service was friendly but they too are in the dark.

 

 

MSC has officially canceled these cruises.  I was also booked on the September 19th sailing of SEASIDE.  The sketchy thing is that MSC won't even let you request a refund until August 31, then who knows how long you wait once the request is submitted.  I've never heard of having to wait over a month just to request a refund after a cruise line cancels a sailing.  I would be very hesitant to book any future cruises with them at this point.  They are shooting themselves in the foot and getting desperate trying to hang on to $$ that is not theirs.  

 

 

[deliver42]

I like MSC. but they always seem to shoot themselves in the foot because of their various policies.

[Hlitner]

On 7/23/2020 at 10:18 AM, DCGuy64 said:

The CDC's order does not legally forbid cruise lines from operating. For example, a Bahamas-based line is allowed to operate because it presented an acceptable plan and was given the green light to sail. (FYI: I'm not accusing the OP of anything, but speaking with fellow travelers, a number of people seem to believe that the "No Sail Order" means no cruise line can sail until October 1. That's false). I'm hopeful that given the efforts underway by RCCL and NCL, as well as Carnival and MSC, more cruise lines can present acceptable COVID-19 plans and similarly resume sailing. Time will tell!

I do think it effective prevents any cruises (of ships with more than 250 persons) from a US Port.  Here is the text of the current"order"

 

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) announced today the extension of a No Sail Order for cruise ships through September 30, 2020. This order continues to suspend passenger operations on cruise ships with the capacity to carry at least 250 passengers in waters subject to U.S. jurisdiction.

 

I guess one could argue (in Federal Court) whether this "order" is legally binding.  But, for practical purposes it is binding because no US port would dare disobey this order and the USCG would likely make sure it was enforced.  Cruise lines can certainly operate in other countries (subject to their own rules).

 

The question is whether the CDC will lift or amend its order by the end of September.  The CDC recently announced that they are seeking comments from both the public and interested organizations on the cruise issue.  Having worked in government (for over 30 years) this call for public comments is quite common.  Many governmental organizations will often follow-up such an order with public hearings although the CDC has not mentioned this subject.  It is also common for the government to publish some or all of the public comments in the Federal Register and also publish government responses.  If the CDC decides to follow this practice one could expect further delays during the process.

 

Hank

 

Hank

 

 

 

 

[eroller]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

 

The question is whether the CDC will lift or amend its order by the end of September.  The CDC recently announced that they are seeking comments from both the public and interested organizations on the cruise issue.  

 

 

 

I believe the CDC is allowing 2 months just for people to submit the comments.  This would indicate no rush and a very good chance the no-sail order will be extended.  At this rate, we won't be seeing any cruises from the US until 2021.  

 

[Hlitner]

27 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

 

I believe the CDC is allowing 2 months just for people to submit the comments.  This would indicate no rush and a very good chance the no-sail order will be extended.  At this rate, we won't be seeing any cruises from the US until 2021.  

 

If I were working at the CDC I would have one question.  What will a cruise ship do if a single passenger/crew develops COVID-19 during a cruise?  Failing a good answer there is no way I would green light cruising.

 

Hank

[BermudaBound2014]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I do think it effective prevents any cruises (of ships with more than 250 persons) from a US Port. 

Exactly!  In addition, the cdc form is open for input until 9/21/20. Afterward they have to analyze the data- then comes the plan to implement the changes- then comes the time to physically implement the changes, then testing, ...... The cdc is obviously in no rush. Unfortunately my money is on spring pf 2021 before USA residents can sail. 

 

 

[eroller]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

If I were working at the CDC I would have one question.  What will a cruise ship do if a single passenger/crew develops COVID-19 during a cruise?  Failing a good answer there is no way I would green light cruising.

 

Hank

 

 

Great question.  One of several I think need comprehensive and detailed answers before US cruising can begin.  Unfortunately I don't have much faith in the CDC these days, and they also don't seem too receptive to working with cruise lines at the moment.  It's unfortunate as most cruise lines are now at the mercy of the CDC.  Hopefully they can stay in business while the CDC drags its feet ... but all that aside the US is nowhere near ready to begin cruising yet.  Hell we are the COVID capital of the world and there is no end in sight.  Our only hope appears to be a vaccine and even that is a big "if" at this point.  

 

Meanwhile we have large cruise ships beginning in Germany (TUI and AIDA).  These are national cruises with residents of Germany only, and no port stops but it's a start.  Also the ships are at about 1/2 capacity.  This being said I don't think demand was an issue which speaks well to the resiliency of the cruise industry. There is also Dream Cruises starting up in Taiwan.  We also have some smaller ships starting up (European river cruises) and SeaDream Yacht Club in Norway. SeaDream actually brought their second ship online the demand was so great for the first ship.  

 

There is of course great risk in starting up too early.  Another outbreak on a ship and it could be the nail in the coffin for more than one major cruise line.  Sadly we are already seeing some smaller lines (CMV, Pulmantur) go under and several ships headed to the scrapyard before their time. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by eroller

[Hlitner]

6 hours ago, eroller said:

 

 

Great question.  One of several I think need comprehensive and detailed answers before US cruising can begin.  Unfortunately I don't have much faith in the CDC these days, and they also don't seem too receptive to working with cruise lines at the moment.  It's unfortunate as most cruise lines are now at the mercy of the CDC.  Hopefully they can stay in business while the CDC drags its feet ... but all that aside the US is nowhere near ready to begin cruising yet.  Hell we are the COVID capital of the world and there is no end in sight.  Our only hope appears to be a vaccine and even that is a big "if" at this point.  

 

Meanwhile we have large cruise ships beginning in Germany (TUI and AIDA).  These are national cruises with residents of Germany only, and no port stops but it's a start.  Also the ships are at about 1/2 capacity.  This being said I don't think demand was an issue which speaks well to the resiliency of the cruise industry. There is also Dream Cruises starting up in Taiwan.  We also have some smaller ships starting up (European river cruises) and SeaDream Yacht Club in Norway. SeaDream actually brought their second ship online the demand was so great for the first ship.  

 

There is of course great risk in starting up too early.  Another outbreak on a ship and it could be the nail in the coffin for more than one major cruise line.  Sadly we are already seeing some smaller lines (CMV, Pulmantur) go under and several ships headed to the scrapyard before their time. 

It is easy to understand anyone's concerns about the CDC competency.  But I can also understand that the various government health groups (around the world) having a big issue with cruises.  We did notice the Tui cruise but that is a short cruise to nowhere.  In Taiwan, the cruise is also limited to a small group of nationals and they are only visiting Taiwanese ports.  While the cruise lines desperately want to start-up operations I do not think there is any such feeling when it comes to the ports.  It is hard to imagine ports opening to international cruising and I think this will be a problem haunting cruise lines for many years.  Prior to COVID-19 there was already an anti-cruise sentiment in many ports and this virus makes it easy for them to simply keep their ports closed for the foreseeable future.

 

We should not forget our crew friends since more then 10,000 of them are still stuck on ships (mostly off the USA and in Manila Bay) more than 4 months after the shut down.  While we are all dreaming about getting back to cruising the cruise lines are still trying to figure out how to disembark crew members that have not been accepted at any port (including at their home countries).  What a mess.

 

Hank