spencercoop Posted September 15, 2020 #26 Share Posted September 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, Aquahound said: Destiny? Destiny is the Carnival Sunshine now and the Triumph is the Carnival Sunrise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricketcj1 Posted September 15, 2020 #27 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Booked &pd Volendam 1/4/2021 We are getting scared It won!t go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MISTER 67 Posted September 15, 2020 #28 Share Posted September 15, 2020 5 hours ago, Sir PMP said: Bye, bye Zaandam, Volendam, Zuiderdam, Oosterdam.. Why the Zuiderdam and Oosterdam, I can see the Volendam, Zaandam, Rotterdam and Amsterdam being sold but not the other 2 which are newer and larger with more amenities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PMP Posted September 15, 2020 #29 Share Posted September 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, MISTER 67 said: Why the Zuiderdam and Oosterdam, I can see the Volendam, Zaandam, Rotterdam and Amsterdam being sold but not the other 2 which are newer and larger with more amenities. They both are not in the best shape, Zuiderdam is the oldest, only the Noordam is in tip top shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Copper10-8 Posted September 15, 2020 #30 Share Posted September 15, 2020 6 hours ago, Sir PMP said: Bye, bye Zaandam, Volendam, Zuiderdam, Oosterdam.. 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaCruiser72 Posted September 15, 2020 #31 Share Posted September 15, 2020 I think HAL fleet is safe (for now). I see the additional 5 ships being Sun Princess, Sea Princess, Pacific Explorer (P&O Australia - former Dawn Princess), AIDAcara and AIDAmira. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted September 16, 2020 #32 Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) My guess would be that it is not just age. I would expect that past ship profitability and condition would also be a consideration I suspect that Carnival will try to get as much financial bad news as possible recognized in the current fiscal year. This would include reserve money for restructuring, loss on disposals, etc as can be recognized. This will place them in a better position for FY21. Edited September 16, 2020 by iancal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveOKC Posted September 16, 2020 Author #33 Share Posted September 16, 2020 8 hours ago, iancal said: My guess would be that it is not just age. I would expect that past ship profitability and condition would also be a consideration I suspect that Carnival will try to get as much financial bad news as possible recognized in the current fiscal year. This would include reserve money for restructuring, loss on disposals, etc as can be recognized. This will place them in a better position for FY21. It happens alot - companies having bad news/earnings/etc. use the opportunity to "wash out" any other bad deals they have on the books. I saw it first hand when I worked for a public company. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Mary229 Posted September 16, 2020 #34 Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) As far as financials these 18 ships have been fully depreciated. When a company sells a depreciated asset they must recapture the depreciation triggering a huge income tax event. That gain* can be offset by the losses. This loss year gives them a unique opportunity to dispose of tax liability without having to pay taxes. *The gain, in US tax law, is treated as ordinary income. So if you want to know which ships they are selling, they are selling the fully depreciated "paid off" ships. That is what businesses do. Edited September 16, 2020 by Mary229 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare foodsvcmgr Posted September 16, 2020 #35 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Yesterday Peaceboat announced long term charter of Sun Princess and Carnival this morning confirmed the anticipated disposal of Carnival Fascination, so add these two to the list of definites. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted September 16, 2020 #36 Share Posted September 16, 2020 The original acquisition cost may be fully amortized....but perhaps not all of the capital improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveOKC Posted September 16, 2020 Author #37 Share Posted September 16, 2020 34 minutes ago, Mary229 said: As far as financials these 18 ships have been fully depreciated. When a company sells a depreciated asset they must recapture the depreciation triggering a huge income tax event. That gain* can be offset by the losses. This loss year gives them a unique opportunity to dispose of tax liability without having to pay taxes. *The gain, in US tax law, is treated as ordinary income. So if you want to know which ships they are selling, they are selling the fully depreciated "paid off" ships. That is what businesses do. I am not a tax expert, but I thought that if you have a gain on the sale of an asset (like a fully depreciated ship) it qualifies to be taxed at a lower capital gains tax rate, not ordinary income?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Mary229 Posted September 16, 2020 #38 Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 minute ago, DaveOKC said: I am not a tax expert, but I thought that if you have a gain on the sale of an asset (like a fully depreciated ship) it qualifies to be taxed at a lower capital gains tax rate, not ordinary income?? It is not a "gain". It is recapture. Just like when you sell a rental property. You have been depreciating that property for the entire ownership period. When you sell a property you have two components 1. any gain over your cost basis, original price plus improvements and 2. depreciation recapture. The depreciation can be much larger than any capital gain and is treated as ordinary income. The gain is as you said, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveOKC Posted September 16, 2020 Author #39 Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mary229 said: It is not a "gain". It is recapture. Just like when you sell a rental property. You have been depreciating that property for the entire ownership period. When you sell a property you have two components 1. any gain over your cost basis, original price plus improvements and 2. depreciation recapture. The depreciation can be much larger than any capital gain and is treated as ordinary income. The gain is as you said, Dave Got it - thanks for clarifying. Of course, with all the losses they are incurring this year, it will be a long time before they have to pay taxes. Edited September 16, 2020 by DaveOKC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted September 16, 2020 #40 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Who really knows what ships will be impacted. Each cruise line in the Carnival Corp umbrella probably has a priority list of ships to be dumped based on a number of factors. Carnival Corp will pick and choose based on the best financial interests of the Corporation and the subsidiary. There will probably be more disposals in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted September 16, 2020 #41 Share Posted September 16, 2020 None of the tax discussion is relevant because they are not US companies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Mary229 Posted September 16, 2020 #42 Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, KirkNC said: None of the tax discussion is relevant because they are not US companies. https://cruiseradio.net/fact-check-do-cruise-lines-pay-us-taxes/ Plus they do have to pay taxes somewhere and corporate taxes can be fairly uniform only differing in rates and credits Edited September 16, 2020 by Mary229 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted September 16, 2020 #43 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Tax regulations are different for certain. But audited financial statements will be similar. With a reserve for taxes-payable, or tax losses in the current year that may be recouped from prior years (depending on the jurisdiction) or reserved to be carried forward against future years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MISTER 67 Posted September 16, 2020 #44 Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, Sir PMP said: They both are not in the best shape, Zuiderdam is the oldest, only the Noordam is in tip top shape. We sailed on the Oosterdam last year and thought it was in great shape, new carpeting everywhere, new furniture here and there and clean as a whistle. We haven't sailed on the Zuiderdam since it's inaugural year so don't know what kind of shape she's in. Don't know who would buy the Zaandsm, someone wrote last year that she's rusting out on the floor between the crew deck and the engine room. Edited September 16, 2020 by MISTER 67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PMP Posted September 16, 2020 #45 Share Posted September 16, 2020 18 minutes ago, MISTER 67 said: We sailed on the Oosterdam last year and thought it was in great shape, new carpeting everywhere, new furniture here and there and clean as a whistle. We haven't sailed on the Zuiderdam since it's inaugural year so don't know what kind of shape she's in. Don't know who would buy the Zaandsm, someone wrote last year that she's rusting out on the floor between the crew deck and the engine room. Oosterdam had leaking problems when I was on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyk47 Posted September 16, 2020 #46 Share Posted September 16, 2020 No doubt there are many considerations when deciding which ships to either sell or scrap. I found it interesting that the Carnival Fantasy was in dry dock in 2019 but was one of the first ships Carnival sent to the scrap yard. The videos I have seen on YouTube showed they didn’t even bother to strip her of her furniture, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Mary229 Posted September 16, 2020 #47 Share Posted September 16, 2020 37 minutes ago, Randyk47 said: No doubt there are many considerations when deciding which ships to either sell or scrap. I found it interesting that the Carnival Fantasy was in dry dock in 2019 but was one of the first ships Carnival sent to the scrap yard. The videos I have seen on YouTube showed they didn’t even bother to strip her of her furniture, etc. I was wondering about condition. Could be that with all of the time laid up these ships have been fully inspected and a laundry list of future repairs made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Copper10-8 Posted September 16, 2020 #48 Share Posted September 16, 2020 2 hours ago, MISTER 67 said: .....................Don't know who would buy the Zaandsm, someone wrote last year that she's rusting out on the floor between the crew deck and the engine room. If that was currently (or while sailing prior to the pandemic stoppage) the case, the U.S. Coast Guard would not let her sail since she would not pass their regular safety inspections 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted September 17, 2020 #49 Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) Don't know what the condition of Zaandam is. But...we watch the late booking prices on the Vancouver Alaska run. We have done so for a number of years. For whatever reason, Zaandam is routinely one of the first to drop prices inside the final payment window, sometimes going as low as $269 (before taxes) and has typically had insides and outsides (sometimes obstructed) very close to sailing and after all other ships have sold out. At any point post final payment Zaandam is usually the least expensive offering. The only other ship close to this is an older Princess ship. We have often wondered why this is. Edited September 17, 2020 by iancal 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Mary229 Posted September 17, 2020 #50 Share Posted September 17, 2020 Fascination and Imagination are out. Major changes to Carnival Cruise schedule to allow for dry dock CCL News Room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now