Mandatory vaccination

[AstoriaPreppy]

59 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Yes, I have heard of this. That was many years ago. This is a different time. I would think they would have allowed that to be a distant memory. The black community has come a LOOOOOOG way since that travesty to their community.

 

The Tuskegee study was only terminated in 1972 after the whistleblower doctor went public. That's less than 50 years ago, and cultural memory lasts a long time. 

 

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

You're joking, right?

 

As an aside, I don't read FB at all, In fact, I got rid of my account years ago.

Also yes I'm joking about Oprah editing our DNA! (we all know it's actually Tom Hanks). 
 

[Stick93]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

This really is simple....if you don’t want the COVID vaccine, don’t cruise.  There are some here that said they won’t.  I have no problem if you won’t cruise because of vaccine requirements.

At this point nobody is cruising - if you feel safe leaving from some 3rd world hell hole with a port because you have a vaccine - I think you will indeed get what you pay for. Remember to get to these ports you will need to get on a plane with unvaccinated people and children - your cocoon will be shattered.

 

Also the boogie man  flies on planes!

Edited April 7, 2021 by Stick93

[AstoriaPreppy]

14 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

Remember to get to these ports you will need to get on a plane with unvaccinated people and children - your cocoon will be shattered.

At least for St. Maarten (where Celebrity is sailing from), anyone entering the country has to submit a negative rt-PCR test prior to departure and get pre-approval docs from the government before boarding the flight. Almost like a covid visa to enter the nation. 

[coffeebean]

12 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

The term mRNA vaccine comes from the fact that the vaccine enters one gene sequence in the cell. The vaccine may not last long but what it does stays in the body and changes some stuff at the cellular level. You have decided to take the vaccine and that is good - so have I. This is why some people are opting to get J&J because it is not using the new mRNA technology. 

 

At the end of this all - time will tell us who made a good decision and who did not. 

I find the mRNA technology to be genius and I'm excited to say I received the Moderna vaccine. I'm not sure what you described when you mentioned "gene sequence" but I found this article.......

mRNA vaccines are not gene therapy

 

Here is more information from the CDC.........

Understanding mRNA vaccines

[BermudaBound2014]

11 hours ago, KateQ22003 said:

Michigan is not on a "very hard shut down." Not sure where this information is coming from.

 

10 hours ago, tallnthensome said:

Nope ... I’m here and this huge spike started once we opened back up a month ago . We’ve been stuck in house all winter and now it’s people gathering that is causing it along with the virus variants which is very high. We have Detroit which is our biggest problem area as the African American community isn’t keen on the vaccine and now our hospitals are filling with Covid patients again . They are not doing their part. 

 

I should have been more specific in my post. It was too broad and without context. To clarify: "Michigan  has been on a very hard shut down" does not refer to simply the just last few weeks, but rather the overall response to Covid since last March.

 

Would you not agree that Michigan has had one of the countries most stringent 'lock down' rules since the onset? If not, please correct me....

 

A few examples:

 

1) Dine in restaurants entirely closed. When I left in January (to snowbird), indoor dining was entirely prohibited (it was open for awhile but then closed again last November). Were there any other states that completely prohibited indoor dining last winter? If so, did they keep the rule in place as long as Michigan? I know when I landed in Hawaii, restaurants were open with limited capacity, yet Michigan restaurants remained closed for months. If other states allowed indoor dining, how are their covid numbers comparing to Michigan's today?

 

2)  My nephews sporting events were held across the border this entire school year because youth athletics were restricted in Michigan until very recently. Yet, numbers in states that welcomed the tournaments remain considerably lower than Michigan's. 

 

3) If we go back to last summer, we were personally prohibited from visiting our northern Michigan cabin (land we own and pay taxes on). This directive was later ruled unconstitutional by the Michigan Supreme court. How many other states prohibited people from visiting their own property?

 

4) My best friend had to drive to Indiana to get a haircut (while I had to knock three times on the back door of my salon to get secret admittance because the salon neededto open illegally or go bankrupt.... I can not make this stuff up). 

 

Here is a document showing the lockdown measures up until just a few weeks ago. How many states had more restrictions? How many states had fewer restrictions? What are covid numbers in each group?

3-19_Epidemic_Order_v8_719956_7.pdf (michigan.gov)

 

I understand that Covid response has been extremely challenging for leaders. I might even be convinced that Governor Whitmer believes her actions were in the best interest of the constitutes, Not one leader could possibly be expected to get this 100% correct. 

 

My point is that, since last March, Michigan has been under some of the most strict covid rules in the entire country and considering Michigan is the "covid epicenter" of the USA right now, it appears to me that the lock down strategies implemented have not been successful. 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by BermudaBound2014

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, Stick93 said:

At this point nobody is cruising - if you feel safe leaving from some 3rd world hell hole with a port because you have a vaccine - I think you will indeed get what you pay for. Remember to get to these ports you will need to get on a plane with unvaccinated people and children - your cocoon will be shattered.

 

Also the boogie man  flies on planes!

I'm waiting for cruising from Florida to resume so we can drive to the port.

[Oxo]

3 hours ago, Stick93 said:

At this point nobody is cruising - if you feel safe leaving from some 3rd world hell hole with a port because you have a vaccine - I think you will indeed get what you pay for. Remember to get to these ports you will need to get on a plane with unvaccinated people and children - your cocoon will be shattered.

 

Also the boogie man  flies on planes!

OMG! LOL this is a joke. Where do you cruise from? How do you get to the port? 

[Stick93]

3 hours ago, coffeebean said:

I find the mRNA technology to be genius and I'm excited to say I received the Moderna vaccine. I'm not sure what you described when you mentioned "gene sequence" but I found this article.......

mRNA vaccines are not gene therapy

 

Here is more information from the CDC.........

Understanding mRNA vaccines

You have to look at what these companies were trying to create these vaccines for - some of the goals were a cancer vaccine. The whole point is changing the sequence of the genes. We can agree to disagree but in my opinion this is gene therapy and not a vaccine.  (Again - I took it and will take the risk with that said but I understand people holding out and it their decision).

[Stick93]

26 minutes ago, Oxo said:

OMG! LOL this is a joke. Where do you cruise from? How do you get to the port? 

I am talking about going to the Dominican and Jamaica vaccinated to get on a cruise. 

[RocketMan275]

On 4/6/2021 at 8:48 AM, HarpHarp said:

You can't get an accurate  measure of the extent of infection unless you test the the entire population in an area. a combination of PCR and antibody tests would give some idea of the extent of the infection over time. Somewhere upwards of 30% of those infected are asymptomatic or have such mild symptoms they wouldn't even get tested, so hospitalizations are key.
Here is the latest from FL.  
 

On average, the Florida Department of Health has reported about 5,424 infections and 75 deaths per day over the past seven days. It can take officials up to two weeks to confirm and report a coronavirus-related death, meaning the number of deaths added does not necessarily reflect the number of people who died the previous day.

The health department processed more than 93,000 tests on Friday, reporting a daily positivity rate of about 6.3 percent.

New York with a much lower  positivity rate
 

• Test Results Reported - 150,225
• Total Positive - 6,583
• Percent Positive - 4.38%
• Patient Hospitalization - 4,434 (+61)
• 7-Day Average Percent Positive - 3.57

The AP reports: "New York, Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania and New Jersey together reported 44% of the nation’s new COVID-19 infections, or nearly 197,500 new cases, in the latest available seven-day period, according to state health agency data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Total U.S. infections during the same week numbered more than 452,000."

 

One cannot blame it all on Florida and Florida's reopening policies when four of the top five states with new COVID infections have strict COVID mitigation protocols in place.  Probably has more to do with population than anything else.  Note: of those five states, four of them are in the top ten state population. 

[DCGuy64]

One of things we'll probably never know is the number of people who have a natural immunity to Covid-19 despite never having had symptoms and/or gotten tested, much less a vaccination.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html

Part of this article from the CDC says the following:

"Even if you have already recovered from COVID-19, it is possible—although rare—that you could be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 again."

(I boldened the part that says "although rare"). I don't know what their definition of rare is, because the article doesn't say, but even the CDC admits that a person who had Covid and recovered from it, like my wife and I did, has SOME immunity from reinfection, for a while. I've seen 90 days, I've even seen 6 months-a year. So hypothetically, a cruise ship could allow unvaccinated passengers who've had the disease and recovered from it, especially if it was within the 90 days I mentioned.

That being said, we've both been vaccinated, she 2x and I once (I have to wait 3 weeks for my 2nd shot).

There are, seemingly, many people who see allowing the unvaccinated aboard as some kind of "virus roulette," putting the lives of 1,000s of other passengers in jeopardy. I think that's overly dramatic. I see it more as a case of allowing those who aren't a threat, which would include both the vaccinated and the recovered, since they both have immunity (not 100%, that isn't possible with ANY vaccine). But ultimately, that's a decision that'll be made by the cruise lines, not me.

[graphicguy]

On 4/7/2021 at 6:42 AM, KateQ22003 said:

Michigan is not on a "very hard shut down." Not sure where this information is coming from.

Neither was OH.  The Governor said over and over that the longer (some of) the populace did not comply with the mask and social distancing norms, the longer the requirements would last for bars, restaurants, etc.

 

He was right.  There were some who just would not comply with masks and distancing, and there were “super-spreader” events (you listening Ohio State).  Consequently, we’re just now starting to get COVID under control as more and more people get the vaccine.

[graphicguy]

The only person or thing I was ever afraid of was my late Mother when I broke her favorite ceramic figurine that I required as the target of my GI Joe’s enemy assault.  Talk about true fear...

 

The rest?  COVID?  I practiced mask wearing and distancing.  Have gladly received both Pfizer shots.  Nothing untoward has happened.  

 

I’m set to cruise, so all this other quackery about how, why, when someone will or won’t practice distancing, mask wearing, vaccines, etc is nothing more than noise.

 

We know what works.  We also know what doesn’t.  Whichever path you choose won’t affect my ability to cruise.

 

NCL has provided their guidelines.  I’m ready to go.

[HarpHarp]

6 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

The AP reports: "New York, Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania and New Jersey together reported 44% of the nation’s new COVID-19 infections, or nearly 197,500 new cases, in the latest available seven-day period, according to state health agency data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Total U.S. infections during the same week numbered more than 452,000."

 

One cannot blame it all on Florida and Florida's reopening policies when four of the top five states with new COVID infections have strict COVID mitigation protocols in place.  Probably has more to do with population than anything else.  Note: of those five states, four of them are in the top ten state population. 

One of my medical buddies said at the start of this, the spread depends on population density and the density of the population🙄 She was right. NY, PA and NJ have a lot of visitors, density of population, high use of public transportation and much travel among those 3 states. 
Michigan has a large non-compliant segment of the population as shown by the takover of the Capitol in Lansing & the plot to kidnap the Governor and highly populated areas as well Also, unlike FL, the weather has not been suitable for things like outdoor dining or events like festivals until the last few days. The problem with FL and it's laxness is that prople traveled there because of those conditions and the weather and brought infections back to their home states. Our Governor, this afternoon had nothing but bad news on the inew infection and hospitalization front. We may have our first county in purple next week, (looking at you Columbus & OSU)

[BermudaBound2014]

5 hours ago, graphicguy said:

We know what works.  We also know what doesn’t.  

 

Are you absolutely sure about this?

 

I think we are miles away from understanding Covid with any degree of the certainty you imply.

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, HarpHarp said:

One of my medical buddies said at the start of this, the spread depends on population density and the density of the population🙄 She was right. NY, PA and NJ have a lot of visitors, density of population, high use of public transportation and much travel among those 3 states. 
Michigan has a large non-compliant segment of the population as shown by the takover of the Capitol in Lansing & the plot to kidnap the Governor and highly populated areas as well Also, unlike FL, the weather has not been suitable for things like outdoor dining or events like festivals until the last few days. The problem with FL and it's laxness is that prople traveled there because of those conditions and the weather and brought infections back to their home states. Our Governor, this afternoon had nothing but bad news on the inew infection and hospitalization front. We may have our first county in purple next week, (looking at you Columbus & OSU)

It's just as likely that asymptomatic travelers visited Florida from NY, NJ, MI, and PA infecting Florida natives and visitors from other states.  One cannot, much as some would like, blame Florida for all things COVID.

[HarpHarp]

50 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

It's just as likely that asymptomatic travelers visited Florida from NY, NJ, MI, and PA infecting Florida natives and visitors from other states.  One cannot, much as some would like, blame Florida for all things COVID.

Therfore we have the current caution to avoid unnecessary travel from the CDC. Do people listen, NO!

We needed travel restrictions and agressive testing a year ago. When I called our Governor's office a March 4, year ago to ask when we were going to start agressive in state testing. I was told not to worry because they already got 7 negative test results for samples they sent to the CDC. 7 tests for 11.5 million people. What's wrong with this picture?

Meanwhile, 20+ college students from Ohio were partying on Miami Beach, 18 of them came back infected and started the first big outbreak here. Yes they could have got it from another visitor, but Ohio bars etc. were shut down and it was 35 so they couldn't have partied in groups of 100s here.

[graphicguy]

4 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Are you absolutely sure about this?

 

I think we are miles away from understanding Covid with any degree of the certainty you imply.

The CDC, aside from their foot dragging with the cruise industry, is the most advanced, knowledgeable and respected viral authority in the world.  They endorse the current vaccines offered from Pfizer, Astra and J&J.  My GP endorses the vaccines, as does my cardiologist and my EN & T specialist.

 

Any one of these sources would be enough of an authority for me.  But, all of them in agreement.....yeah...I’m sure!

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

The CDC, aside from their foot dragging with the cruise industry, is the most advanced, knowledgeable and respected viral authority in the world.  They endorse the current vaccines offered from Pfizer, Astra and J&J.  My GP endorses the vaccines, as does my cardiologist and my EN & T specialist.

 

Any one of these sources would be enough of an authority for me.  But, all of them in agreement.....yeah...I’m sure!

If the cdc knew what worked with the certainty you claim, why are the vaccines still labeled experimental?

It seems to me the situation is still very fluid. 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by BermudaBound2014

[winterbliss]

If it was the goal of pharmaceutical companies to facilitate our good health, I think they'd go bankrupt.

[RocketMan275]

12 hours ago, HarpHarp said:

Therfore we have the current caution to avoid unnecessary travel from the CDC. Do people listen, NO!

We needed travel restrictions and agressive testing a year ago. When I called our Governor's office a March 4, year ago to ask when we were going to start agressive in state testing. I was told not to worry because they already got 7 negative test results for samples they sent to the CDC. 7 tests for 11.5 million people. What's wrong with this picture?

Meanwhile, 20+ college students from Ohio were partying on Miami Beach, 18 of them came back infected and started the first big outbreak here. Yes they could have got it from another visitor, but Ohio bars etc. were shut down and it was 35 so they couldn't have partied in groups of 100s here.

So, the blame lies with students from Ohio instead of Florida?

I would like to see the evidence that these 20 students started this outbreak.  

 

[HarpHarp]

12 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

If the cdc knew what worked with the certainty you claim, why are the vaccines still labeled experimental?

It seems to me the situation is still very fluid. 

 

The vaccines that are in use now are labeled experimental because for full approval they must be used over time. Obviously, the situation was too critical to allow the months to go by for a longitudinal study to be complete. They should be done soon & both Moderna & Pfizer have applied for full approval. The data should be complete in the next couple of months

[HarpHarp]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

So, the blame lies with students from Ohio instead of Florida?

I would like to see the evidence that these 20 students started this outbreak.  

 

Nope, plenty of blame to go around.  Viruses only know one thing-infect or cease to exist. They don't know borders, political party or age. We needed to clamp down hard February 2020 and didn't. 
We slow walked the testing, had travel restrictions with holes you could drive a cargo ship from China through, and have governors enact toothless quarantines for out of state visitors.When you have 25% of the population infected it's almost impossible to control.

Vaccines may save us if enough people get it.

[Goldconnection]

On 4/7/2021 at 2:04 PM, coffeebean said:

Yes, I have heard of this. That was many years ago. This is a different time. I would think they would have allowed that to be a distant memory. The black community has come a LOOOOOOG way since that travesty to their community.

Different time for “WHAT”?

[graphicguy]

13 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

If the cdc knew what worked with the certainty you claim, why are the vaccines still labeled experimental?

It seems to me the situation is still very fluid. 

 

There’s a ton of research available on this topic.  This is just one article.  This has been researched for years.  Not fluid.

 

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/how-decade-coronavirus-research-paved-way-covid-19-vaccines

 

I’ll believe these folks over some in qualified hacks.