DeSantis nearing compromise on cruise vaccination requirements

[ouse456]

In all of this discussion I've seen no mention of the measures taken on prelockdown cruiseships on which there were CoVid outbreaks. Enduring the isolation of being confined to a cabin and experiencing the illness was not seen as a pleasant experience. Enduring an onship bout of CoVid and the knowledge that possibly you have caused the illness and isolation of others would be difficult. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by ouse456

[geaux_aces]

1 hour ago, jfunk138 said:

A few things relevant about this case...

1.  So far it has NEVER been retested.  No state has ever tried to force adults to be vaccinated in the years since.   Even today, the most statist nanny states have shied away from mandating themselves and instead tried to pass the buck to businesses.

2.  The fine was a one-time $5.  That is ~$150 in today's money.  Plenty of folks would be more than willing to pay $150 to make this argument go away permanently.

I was forced by the state to get 2 vaccine boosters in order to go back to school for my doctorate. I was 39 years old.  Pretty sure that's an adult. 

[TNcruising02]

3 minutes ago, geaux_aces said:

I was forced by the state to get 2 vaccine boosters in order to go back to school for my doctorate. I was 39 years old.  Pretty sure that's an adult. 

Forced means not being given a choice.  You could have chosen not to attend that school.  That is different than mandating the covid vaccine for everyone.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

I just had a conversation with someone today, and they indicated that they had a medical reason (they volunteered, I was not prying) for not getting the vaccine. It was because they were allergic to PORK. 

 

OK - I didn't challenge them, but it was easy enough to debunk it with a simple search. I guess some people will run with whatever they've been told by someone else, or something they've read - without questioning it. I found one public health release which included the following (guess they're trying to address as many popular no-vax reasons as possible... I like the microchip part too). I saw the syringe that was used on me each time, and I can only figure that those microchips were actually nanochips. Couldn't quite make them out, floating around in there.

 

 

All three vaccines are safe and similarly effective at preventing hospitalization and death. This is the standard commonly used to assess other vaccines like the flu shot. They do not contain microchips, fetal tissue, pork products, eggs, gelatin, latex or preservatives.

 

 

[geaux_aces]

9 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Forced means not being given a choice.  You could have chosen not to attend that school.  That is different than mandating the covid vaccine for everyone.

I agree, I could have.  Same is true for anyone not wanting to take a shot to cruise; they could choose not to cruise.  Never known the government to "force" vaccines in any way other than "in order to do x" scenarios.  

Edited June 9, 2021 by geaux_aces

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

15 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Forced means not being given a choice.  You could have chosen not to attend that school.  That is different than mandating the covid vaccine for everyone.

 

I was in the Army (Natl Guard) and I'm sure somewhere I signed away my rights. There was not a choice about vaccinations prior to deployment. Well, not that a reasonably sane person would entertain!

 

(edit - I'll add that I was able to enjoy them TWICE... and quickly found out that I should keep my medical records/proof close at hand. They don't have the time or inclination to search on your behalf if you're not watching out for yourself to begin with!)

 

Tom

[BlerkOne]

6 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Forced means not being given a choice.  You could have chosen not to attend that school.  That is different than mandating the covid vaccine for everyone.

You can choose not to cruise.

[cruisingguy007]

2 hours ago, Lee Cruiser said:

Sorry, I absolutely do not agree with that! There is no reason that everyone should ever be forced to take the vaccine. If that happens we may as well throw the constitution in the garbage and say goodbye to our country. 

 

There is no right to privacy beyond your home, papers and effects. As soon as you step outside of your home is where your privacy ends. Heck, even in your home now. All internet traffic is tracked/traceable (unless you take measures to prevent this), cell phones are tracked, all calls run through super computers, all credit/debit spending, cameras are allowed anywhere in public (beyond dressing rooms/bathrooms (where privacy is expected), people have cameras/doorbells everywhere. A vaccine ID in no way violates the constitution. Don't like it, don't cruise or start your own cruise line  business and run unvaccinated cruises and battle the CDC. Free market/free choice. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[cruisingguy007]

1 hour ago, Lee Cruiser said:

The original comment had nothing to do with cruises. It was stating that sooner or later ALL are going to have to take the vaccine. I have been, but I don't think it should ever be forced. 

 

I think I misread your intentions also. My bad. 🙂 

[TNcruising02]

11 minutes ago, geaux_aces said:

I agree, I could have.  Same is true for anyone not wanting to take a shot to cruise; they could choose not to cruise.  Never known the government to "force" vaccines in any way other than "in order to do x" scenarios.  

I completely agree.  Whether I like rules or not, I have no problem following them.  If the cruise lines require vaccination, then people will have to accept it.  Someone on another post mentioned that someday everyone will be vaccinated.

[jfunk138]

21 minutes ago, geaux_aces said:

I was forced by the state to get 2 vaccine boosters in order to go back to school for my doctorate. I was 39 years old.  Pretty sure that's an adult. 

Was it the state or the business you paid your tuition to?

[geaux_aces]

Just now, jfunk138 said:

Was it the state or the business you paid your tuition to?

It was a private school (so business). State law mandated vaccines be up-to-date for admission.

[jfunk138]

Just now, geaux_aces said:

It was a private school (so business). State law mandated vaccines be up-to-date for admission.

As I said... another example of the state co-opting business to do the mandating. 

 

Jacobsen is the only time the state has directly tried to mandate vaccination of adults without making a business the enforcer.

[basil's mom]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I guess we should have thrown out the Constitution way back in 1905, when SCOTUS ruled in Jacobson v Massachusetts that:

 

Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws. The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.  (bolding of text is mine)

The federal government has already said that they are not going to make vaccinations compulsory therefore this does not apply since it is a cruise line and not the state that is making it compulsory.

[sm3ds]

A lot of people will choose not to cruise. When cruiselines can't fill their ships or attract  new customers then they'll decide to let the other 58% on their ships. 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, Dat Cruisin Couple said:

 

The Supreme Court reaffirmed its decision in Jacobson in Zucht v. King (1922), which held that a school system could refuse admission to a student who failed to receive a required vaccination.[7] Jacobson has been invoked in numerous other Supreme Court cases as an example of a baseline exercise of the police power, with cases relying on it including Buck v. Bell, 274 U.S. 200 (1927) (sterilization of those with intellectual disabilities), Prince v. Massachusetts, 321 U.S. 158 (1944) (limitations on parents having children distribute pamphlets in the street), and Vernonia School District 47J v. Acton, 515 U.S. 646 (1995) (allowing random drug testing of students).

And a few years ago, the NY State Court of Appeals, the highest court in NY state upheld the newly passed state law that in response to a measles outbreak revoked the so called religious exemption (while retaining the medical exemption.) 

[graphicguy]

7 minutes ago, basil's mom said:

The federal government has already said that they are not going to make vaccinations compulsory therefore this does not apply since it is a cruise line and not the state that is making it compulsory.

Point I was making, except you were much more eloquent in doing so.

 

 

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

4 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And a few years ago, the NY State Court of Appeals, the highest court in NY state upheld the newly passed state law that in response to a measles outbreak revoked the so called religious exemption (while retaining the medical exemption.) 

 

Religious exemptions are a tough one. I understand the depth of faith that some people have - though in the end viruses and such don't give a hoot about faith. Again, it's a touchy subject - very volatile !

 

Tom

[BlerkOne]

10 minutes ago, sm3ds said:

A lot of people will choose not to cruise. When cruiselines can't fill their ships or attract  new customers then they'll decide to let the other 58% on their ships. 

I'm looking forward to price drops and more casino offers, but not holding my breath on either  

[graphicguy]

11 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

Religious exemptions are a tough one. I understand the depth of faith that some people have - though in the end viruses and such don't give a hoot about faith. Again, it's a touchy subject - very volatile !

 

Tom

Mentioned in another thread, I'm a Christian.  I know those of the Hebrew, Muslim, Bhai, Hindus, and maybe others of folks I know.  None of them forbid getting a COVID Vaccine.  I'm just curious which creed forbids the vaccine.

 

EDIT...I'll correct myself.  I can see where the Amish would not allow vaccinations.  Then again, I can't see them allowing cruising, either.

 

As far as how will cruise lines know who is or isn't vaccinated from COVID, pretty simple.  You don't offer your proof of COVID vaccine, the assumption is you're not vaccinated.

Edited June 9, 2021 by graphicguy

[ontheweb]

8 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

Religious exemptions are a tough one. I understand the depth of faith that some people have - though in the end viruses and such don't give a hoot about faith. Again, it's a touchy subject - very volatile !

 

Tom

Religious exemptions is also a tough one because it is so personal. How do you say one is valid, while another is not. And let's not forget the personal part, it does not have to be based on any organized religion. So if someone believes in the holy internet?????

[cruisingguy007]

41 minutes ago, sm3ds said:

A lot of people will choose not to cruise. When cruiselines can't fill their ships or attract  new customers then they'll decide to let the other 58% on their ships. 

 

I'm pretty sure the 80%+ of cruisers that are vaccinated, understand the unique challenges/conditions of close quarter cruise ship travel, port concerns from countries that are visited, and viability and continuity of cruising in general, will really appreciate those unvaccinated folks choosing not to cruise. They're doing the industry a HUGE favor right now by staying away until things can return to pre covid conditions.     

Edited June 9, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[songbird1329]

Latest on the litigation front.  The Florida Attorney General’s supplemental brief puts vaccines front and center and puts the Florida law against CDC requirements.  Oral argument is tomorrow.  
 

I wonder if Merryday will rule from the bench.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

8 hours ago, songbird1329 said:

Latest on the litigation front.  The Florida Attorney General’s supplemental brief puts vaccines front and center and puts the Florida law against CDC requirements.  Oral argument is tomorrow.  
 

I wonder if Merryday will rule from the bench.

 

Hopefully, so we can put a nail in this and move on!

 

Tom

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, songbird1329 said:

Latest on the litigation front.  The Florida Attorney General’s supplemental brief puts vaccines front and center and puts the Florida law against CDC requirements.  Oral argument is tomorrow.  
 

I wonder if Merryday will rule from the bench.

Courts tend to move slowly. It would benefit everyone to have this settled (thought there are always appeals), but I would not hold my breath waiting for a quick ruling.