Relaxing Masking for vaccinated guests?

[rtazz17]

Its their ship they can do whatever. What drives me nuts through all this is the non sense rules. We dont need masks outdoors but royals staff who is vaccinated do? No need to answer that. Its not really a question. Just ridiculousness. You have to wear a mask inside unless you have a drink in your hand. I mean can we just cut the theater ?  This may fool some people but most people realize the senselessness of it all. And bottom line its not doing anything. Its all show. But we are still going on a cruise on august 8th. Is what it is.

[BND]

1 minute ago, orville99 said:

All the decision of the court of appeals does is temporarily stay the injunction from the original judge until August 12, when the CDC has to file their revised CSO position to the courts. No one won anything, nor will they until this goes to trial.

The CSO will expire before it gets to trial lol.  

[lazydayz]

20 minutes ago, BND said:

I watch Parodeejay's YT videos so that's one of the places I'd seen it.

 

Sorry, I am not following.  What did you see?  

[BND]

1 minute ago, lazydayz said:

 

Sorry, I am not following.  What did you see?  

Um, that masks weren't required like you said.  That everyone took them off the second they boarded.

[lazydayz]

5 minutes ago, BND said:

Um, that masks weren't required like you said.  That everyone took them off the second they boarded.

 

Got it.  Sorry still in post-cruise fog.  You are correct, as soon as guests boarded the Carnival Horizon, the masks came off.  As a guest, I was not required to wear one anywhere on the ship.  On the ship, there was no way to tell who was vaccinated and who wasn't - except those who clearly looked under 12.  

Edited July 19, 2021 by lazydayz
to id ship

[Casino Comp Chick]

3 hours ago, hotsauce126 said:

 

Right because Florida has 22 million people

Haha and I live in NY city in a state with over 20 million people but we wised up to what needed to be done and did it.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Casino Comp Chick

[jrapps]

1 hour ago, Thenagers said:

I heard from a certain blogger that he heard straight  from the head honchos at RCL that they were expecting changes to the mask guidelines soon. That was 2 weeks ago. I’m just wishing they would lower the threshold so vaccinated are exempt. . Wishful thinking at this point! 

I think the Royal CEO had alluded to this in an interview on the first Freedom sailing, saying that they were expecting new guidance that as long as 70% of the ship was vaccinated, that the vaccinated could go mask-free. This would allow for a situation with more children but still mask-free experiences.

 

Of course, this was before the lawsuit injunction and appeal, and also before the Delta variant picked up speed in the US, so I can see the CDC walking that plan back now, or was at least waiting until the appeal was decided. Now that we are past July 18th, it is possible we can expect some revisions, but I don't see the CDC doing it while cases are on the rise in the US. 

[PTC DAWG]

1 hour ago, cello56 said:

 

Florida's population makes up 6.6% of the USA population. (22 million out of 333 million - roughly)

Florida is currently making up 20% of all new USA Covid-19 cases last week. 

According to the White House..a quick google took me to that.  

[BND]

3 minutes ago, jrapps said:

I think the Royal CEO had alluded to this in an interview on the first Freedom sailing, saying that they were expecting new guidance that as long as 70% of the ship was vaccinated, that the vaccinated could go mask-free. This would allow for a situation with more children but still mask-free experiences.

 

Of course, this was before the lawsuit injunction and appeal, and also before the Delta variant picked up speed in the US, so I can see the CDC walking that plan back now, or was at least waiting until the appeal was decided. Now that we are past July 18th, it is possible we can expect some revisions, but I don't see the CDC doing it while cases are on the rise in the US. 

Cases are going up a little, but hospitalizations and deaths aren't.  At what point does the panic subside and the CDC backs off somewhat?  70% is considered herd immunity so that would make sense.

[spooky981]

I'm sailing in late November too. Four months ago I was standing in line at a MassVax site for three hours in the rain hoping to get my first shot. Things change fast. Just imagine where we'll be four months from now?

 

All it takes is the CDC to reduce the 95% requirement to 85% and suddenly I suspect most cruise lines will satisfy that number on every voyage. With the CSO expiring on November 1st that's a very realistic expectation.

[seabeew]

Several weeks ago Michael Bayley, President of Royal Caribbean International, shared on his social media page that he was expecting the CDC to reduce the threshold for mask-wearing to 75% vaccinated. 
 

Maybe not happening due to the variant? 

[BND]

2 minutes ago, seabeew said:

Several weeks ago Michael Bayley, President of Royal Caribbean International, shared on his social media page that he was expecting the CDC to reduce the threshold for mask-wearing to 75% vaccinated. 
 

Maybe not happening due to the variant? 

The vast majority of those catching the variant are unvaccinated so that shouldn't change that.

[PTC DAWG]

3 minutes ago, BND said:

Cases are going up a little, but hospitalizations and deaths aren't.  At what point does the panic subside and the CDC backs off somewhat?  70% is considered herd immunity so that would make sense.

I'm not sure what makes sense factors into things..a dartboard in a back office seems to be the way things are going now.  

[Deplorable1]

12 minutes ago, Casino Comp Chick said:

Haha and I live in NY city in a state with over 20 million people but we wised up to what needed to be done and did it.

 

If you don’t go outside you don’t have to worry about COVID, or getting shot or mugged.

[smokeybandit]

3 minutes ago, spooky981 said:

I'm sailing in late November too. Four months ago I was standing in line at a MassVax site for three hours in the rain hoping to get my first shot. Things change fast. Just imagine where we'll be four months from now?

 

All it takes is the CDC to reduce the 95% requirement to 85% and suddenly I suspect most cruise lines will satisfy that number on every voyage. With the CSO expiring on November 1st that's a very realistic expectation.

 

The CDC never introduced the 95% rule out of any common sense. It was out of a tacit desire to mandate vaccines.

[jrapps]

Just now, BND said:

Cases are going up a little, but hospitalizations and deaths aren't.  At what point does the panic subside and the CDC backs off somewhat?  70% is considered herd immunity so that would make sense.

My guess is they were more waiting for the injunction/appeal than the delta variant. I guess we will see if they update guidance this week or not.

 

Also, hospitalizations and deaths historically tracked weeks behind spikes in positive cases. Seeing a +70% change in 7-day moving average cases is not a great sign. And not a situation that would motivate the CDC to make things less restrictive anywhere, land or sea.

[RedIguana]

52 minutes ago, BND said:

It just seems the CDC makes it up as they go along.  95% is kind of random. It could just as easily be 70%  since that is considered heard immunity for Covid.  Fortunately, the masking policy isn't as bad as it could have been considering the original discussion was pretty much full time wear.  

 

We're not cruising til the end of Nov so by then the CSO expires and hopefully so does the policy.

Where in the wide world of sports did you ever get the idea that 70% was considered herd immunity for anything, much less covid? Current Delta variant probably has an RI close to 2 at 70%.  Ok, biologist here explaining herd immunity again, before it became a common term on cruise forums and coopted by the infectious disease community.

       Herd immunity is the point at which a pathogen is no longer able to reproduce to a point of survivability within a a population (or heard....yes originally it was a concern for livestock). Typically this was 95% +, the + depending on how easily transmitted the pathogen was. Under natural conditions, this 95% is achieved either some form of natural immunity, or acquired immunity from catching and recovering from the pathogen. The "herd" can be any of many forms of populations and sub-populations..nations, states, counties, arenas, cruise ships, cities. In the case of covid, especially the current variants, herd immunity is probably closer to 97-98% (my professional opinion here..call it the lower 95% if you want to not believe me). This immunity in humans can come from natural, acquired, or vaccines. The 95% efficiency of vaccines for covid is due to some people not able to make and retain effective antibody response to the pathogen, which is pretty typical. This is more prevalent in older populations, as as we age we do not have as many young and healthy cells. 

      So, herd immunity in this case comes from natural (10-20%), due to having a similar corona virus in the past, 20% acquired at this point (guesstimating), and vaccines providing the rest. And there is overlap. So the herd immunity is not 70% for herd immunity, it was estimated at 70% vaccinated to maybe get to the 95% required when including natural and acquired. With delta, that probably needs to hit 75-80%. And to have 95% + guaranteed on a subpopulation of a cruise ship, it can only come from vaccines, as you have no idea what the natural or recovered immunities are.  So no, the CDC is not making it up as they go along. It is the general population not understanding the concepts the CDC is working with.

[RedIguana]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

 

The CDC never introduced the 95% rule out of any common sense. It was out of a tacit desire to mandate vaccines.

So wrong. 95% is the base herd immunity biologically.

[jrapps]

1 minute ago, BND said:

The vast majority of those catching the variant are unvaccinated so that shouldn't change that.

It could change it due to Optics.

 

"Covid cases up 70%...in other news, CDC relaxes mask rules on cruise ships...."

 

yeah, that is not a headline I expect to see.

[BND]

5 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

Where in the wide world of sports did you ever get the idea that 70% was considered herd immunity for anything, much less covid? Current Delta variant probably has an RI close to 2 at 70%.  Ok, biologist here explaining herd immunity again, before it became a common term on cruise forums and coopted by the infectious disease community.

       

Google it.  There are several sites where experts say for Covid, it's about 70%.  Measles is 95%.  Biologist doesn't mean expert in virology.

 

I understand what herd immunity is.  I did not make up 70%.

 

I guess Johns Hopkins doesn't know what they're talking about.

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/achieving-herd-immunity-with-covid19.html

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by BND

[jrapps]

10 minutes ago, BND said:

Cases are going up a little, but hospitalizations and deaths aren't.  At what point does the panic subside and the CDC backs off somewhat?  70% is considered herd immunity so that would make sense.

BTW...hospitalizations are up 36% over past 7 days, and deaths are up 26% over 7 days. Not sure why everyone says they aren't.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

 

[RedIguana]

Just now, BND said:

Google it.  There are several sites where experts say for Covid, it's about 70%.  Measles is 95%.

No. They estimate 70% vaccination required. Covid is 95% +, same as measles. 

[smokeybandit]

2 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

Where in the wide world of sports did you ever get the idea that 70% was considered herd immunity for anything, much less covid?

 

Anthony Fauci said 70%.

[RedIguana]

8 minutes ago, BND said:

Google it.  There are several sites where experts say for Covid, it's about 70%.  Measles is 95%.  Biologist doesn't mean expert in virology.

 

I understand what herd immunity is.  I did not make up 70%.

 

I guess Johns Hopkins doesn't know what they're talking about.

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/achieving-herd-immunity-with-covid19.html

 

Yes, they said minimum..and that was to reduce infection, not end it. And that is written from a reporter standpoint from a spokesperson from them.  RI has increased significantly from delta.

 

[smokeybandit]

6 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

No. They estimate 70% vaccination required. Covid is 95% +, same as measles. 

Which is a ridiculous number that'll be nearly impossible to ever reach. Which is likely the point of having such high "estimates"