food and wine (from a restaurant critic's perspective)

[alc13]

We're thinking of trying a river cruise next Spring and I'm curious about food and wine quality on some of the European lines.  I've read reviews and forums and searched on specific lines so I have a good sense of which ones are enjoyed here on Cruise Critic.  But every now and again I find an informative nugget that puts some of the praise in a different light.  For example, on one luxury or near-luxury line, it turns out the included wines cost about $12 retail.  We'd rather pay $12/glass for a $30/bottle than have a $12 wine for free.  Does that make sense?  Same with food...  big portions are not a plus, but good quality ingredients carefully prepared are what we hope for.

 

So leaving aside for the moment your personal impressions of foods and wines that you liked a lot - which lines do you think a restaurant critic might recommend, even if that wouldn't necessarily jibe with your own tastes?  We're not food snobs - a supermarket frozen pizza suits us fine more often that not.

 

Again, this is mostly curiosity.  Itinerary, timing, and overall comfort are more important to us right now.  Thanks for your thoughts and opinions.

 

[Gourmet Gal]

Food and beverage are so subjective and the quality varies widely depending on the cruise line.  I assume you would not choose a cruise line based on food first - I would think itinerary and overall level of luxury/cost would be first. To narrow down the feedback, what lines are you considering?  
 

As an aside, like ocean cruises there could be a line that offers upgraded wines for a fee.  Also, I have learned from my travels and from my local wine shop that there are amazingly good wines to be had for under $20 especially in Europe so what really matters is how well the wines are curated onboard the ship.

[Canal archive]

I have never had an inferior wine on any of our Scenic cruises, I have had wines I did not like and this has been sorted. I have a bit of a weird reaction to the Merlot grape so have to be careful with any mixture of grapes so on our Bordeaux cruise our sommelier pulled out all the stops to find suitable red wines.  Scenic also has a top shelf at an extra cost but I have never felt the urge to use it. After visiting a tasting of at a world renouned vineyard some of the best of the best we’re served at dinner that evening a superb surprise . Gourmet Gal your correct wine in Europe is less expensive than in the U.K. and the US. Although a good wine is worth it to be savoured.

[CILCIANRQTS]

Viking allows you to bring wine on board and consume it anywhere on the ship, which allows you to sample a wide variety of local wines at market prices. 
Also, their drink package is only $20 per day, including gratuities, so that opens up a wide variety of tasting options. They also will bring a replacement if you don’t enjoy your chosen wine.

Our group of 6 enjoyed the wine selection on our recent cruise.

[alc13]

All good points, and thanks for posting to my oddball thread.  As I said, itinerary, timing, and overall comfort will be the deciding factors for us.  I was just curious about more objective food and wine opinions, because the reviews I've read are usually not very specific about what was good or not so good.  I'm sure we'll be happy with whatever we choose, though.

[Gourmet Gal]

You won’t go hungry or thirsty!

[Host Jazzbeau]

I for one was confused by your thread title. I’m not a restaurant critic, and I have no idea how a restaurant critic thinks [except the occasional one who gets fired for not actually visiting the restaurants they review]. 
 

I can tell you that I was very happy with the food on AMA, especially the soups (they have one chef who does nothing but) and the breads (another specialist on board). And they are the only River cruise line with membership in La Chaîne des Rôtisseurs.

 

[NJCruiserBoy]

Crystal.  Michelin caliber, all fresh ingredients with each dish prepared to order like the finest restaurants on land.  I took a tour of the galley and was in awe of what they do.  The wine selections were spectacular, with many choices in the all-inclusive program and even more VERY high-end choices on a separate list.  There are three restaurants onboard and they’re all fabulous! We had dinner one evening in the Vintage Room restaurant and it was incredible.  The meal took over three hours and with each of the 8 courses the sommelier poured a different wine, each more indulgent than the one before.  

[lyndarra]

My only European cruise was Budapest/Amsterdam in 2018 on Avalon Passion. I found the food to be excellent, equal to any I've had on ocean cruises.

 Wines and beer served with dinner often reflected the regions we were passing through. We never had any we did not like. I live in the Hunter Valley, a high quality wine producing area in Australia and was able to compare what we have here to what was being served and it was mostly comparable (although I have a preference for the big Hunter Valley reds).

[Canal archive]

There is a point it’s not the cost but the quality they are not necessarily aligned, I’ve eaten in little corner shops and street stalls around the world where the quality and experience have been superb on the other hand I’ve been in supposedly 5 star establishments around the world where the experience and quality has been inadequate to say the least. 

[Coral]

8 hours ago, NJCruiserBoy said:

Crystal.  Michelin caliber, all fresh ingredients with each dish prepared to order like the finest restaurants on land.  I took a tour of the galley and was in awe of what they do.  The wine selections were spectacular, with many choices in the all-inclusive program and even more VERY high-end choices on a separate list.  There are three restaurants onboard and they’re all fabulous! We had dinner one evening in the Vintage Room restaurant and it was incredible.  The meal took over three hours and with each of the 8 courses the sommelier poured a different wine, each more indulgent than the one before.  

I have to say the food on my Crystal cruises excels any other trip I have been on. Some of it was simply amazing. It far exceeded any ocean cruise including a Crystal ocean cruise.

 

I do not drink but the people I sat with seemed to be very interested in the wines they were serving as it was a discussion every night between the sommelier and these passengers. They were always impressed and they were never charged a cent for what was served (all included).

Edited November 11, 2021 by Coral

[alc13]

2 hours ago, Canal archive said:

There is a point it’s not the cost but the quality they are not necessarily aligned, I’ve eaten in little corner shops and street stalls around the world where the quality and experience have been superb on the other hand I’ve been in supposedly 5 star establishments around the world where the experience and quality has been inadequate to say the least. 

We once ate in a highly regarded and very expensive restaurant in San Francisco where the food was beautifully presented and almost tasteless.  (Even restaurant critics can't be trusted sometimes.)  I also remember a breakfast joint in suburban Milwaukee that made a stellar sandwich - fresh ingredients, perfectly balanced, perfectly cooked.  

[ljandgb]

It can also be dependent on exactly who is in the kitchen.  We did a 2 week Danube cruise, and the chefs switched out in Budapest.  There was a noticeable change in the quality of the food for the worse.  It wasn't awful, but it wasn't stellar anymore.  Also, many lines will highlight local cuisines, so by the end of our Rhine cruise, and the second half of the Danube, I was pretty tired of variations of meat/cabbage/dumplings.  Yes, there was always the salmon/beef/chicken options, but I"m not a big meat eater and the chef kept overcooking the salmon until it was dry.

 

What really annoyed me on our Danube cruise was when a dish was not as advertised.  Borscht came out as onion soup.  Caesar dressing wasn't.  Many of the fresh fruit desserts were actually all frozen berry mixes.  

 

It was a fabulous cruise, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat - but I don't think you can just assume food will be the same even on the same line.

[alc13]

9 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I for one was confused by your thread title. I’m not a restaurant critic, and I have no idea how a restaurant critic thinks [except the occasional one who gets fired for not actually visiting the restaurants they review]. 
 

I can tell you that I was very happy with the food on AMA, especially the soups (they have one chef who does nothing but) and the breads (another specialist on board). And they are the only River cruise line with membership in La Chaîne des Rôtisseurs.

 

I agree, sorry about that.  What I was really hoping was to learn some specifics about why people liked or didn't like the food on XYZ line.  Which is what a critic does.  

 

When I'm in vacation planning mode I read reviews to narrow down my choices.  I like to get hints about whether the reviewer has similar tastes and expectations to ours.  One reviewer commented that the food was too heavy for her tastes.  Now that was really helpful!

 

 

[alc13]

11 minutes ago, ljandgb said:

It can also be dependent on exactly who is in the kitchen.  We did a 2 week Danube cruise, and the chefs switched out in Budapest.  There was a noticeable change in the quality of the food for the worse.  It wasn't awful, but it wasn't stellar anymore.  Also, many lines will highlight local cuisines, so by the end of our Rhine cruise, and the second half of the Danube, I was pretty tired of variations of meat/cabbage/dumplings.  Yes, there was always the salmon/beef/chicken options, but I"m not a big meat eater and the chef kept overcooking the salmon until it was dry.

 

What really annoyed me on our Danube cruise was when a dish was not as advertised.  Borscht came out as onion soup.  Caesar dressing wasn't.  Many of the fresh fruit desserts were actually all frozen berry mixes.  

 

It was a fabulous cruise, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat - but I don't think you can just assume food will be the same even on the same line.

Yes!  We've had the same experience - different cooks, same recipes, different experience.  

 

I'd have been annoyed by the inaccurate menu, too.

[Canal archive]

Sometimes things get lost in translation. Or simply a misunderstanding of how a certain food is described in a different country. Taste is such an individual thing. One person may like their meat for instance pink another almost still breathing, we are all happy when a meal is excellently cooked, presented and served. If that happens for the majority of the cruise the odd hiccup can be excused (but still gently pointed out!) I have built up a superb selection of recipes collected over my several river cruises and I’ve luckily never had a request turned down. 

[Daisi]

I think the best thing about our food on our cruise (and it was excellent) was that if something was ordered which we didn't care for, they would bring us something else.  This let us try a lot of foods we wouldn't order in any restaurant, as they don't do that!  As to wines, Avalon served all regional wines, which we couldn't get at home.  We were even convinced to try some that were a grape type we aren't fond of (find them to sweet here), yet the ones on the boat were great.  That was the best, if you didn't care for wine/food, you got something else, they were there to please us....and couldn't have done a better job.

[sharkster77]

It's all subjective.  On Viking we had chateaubriand that was the best beef we'd have ever eaten.  When we mentioned this to the waiter, he told us to wait until the night osso buco was on the menu, that it would blow the chateaubriand away.  We took his advice--the osso buco was good, but in no way as good as the chateaubriand was.  To each his own.

[Lois R]

I also think food is VERY subjective. What I like, someone else may think is terrible........and vice versa.

I have sailed Uniworld and AMA and if memory serves,  I enjoyed the food on both lines. I sailed AMA back in 2016 so to be honest, I don't remember all the meals.  I sailed Uniworld  in 2019 and it was excellent.  

I am sailing on AMA again in July........looking forward to it🙂

[sharkster77]

3 hours ago, Daisi said:

I think the best thing about our food on our cruise (and it was excellent) was that if something was ordered which we didn't care for, they would bring us something else.  This let us try a lot of foods we wouldn't order in any restaurant, as they don't do that!  As to wines, Avalon served all regional wines, which we couldn't get at home.  We were even convinced to try some that were a grape type we aren't fond of (find them to sweet here), yet the ones on the boat were great.  That was the best, if you didn't care for wine/food, you got something else, they were there to please us....and couldn't have done a better job.

On our cruise one of our tablemates was interested in the moussaka on the menu but wasn't sure if she'd like it---waiter asked if she'd like a taste---he brought over a small portion for her to try.

 

The tendencey is to be as accomodating as possible.

[Daisi]

25 minutes ago, sharkster77 said:

On our cruise one of our tablemates was interested in the moussaka on the menu but wasn't sure if she'd like it---waiter asked if she'd like a taste---he brought over a small portion for her to try.

 

The tendencey is to be as accomodating as possible.

My husband mentioned that my desert looked good...next thing we knew, our server was putting one down in front of him...didn't even have to ask. Food was good, but to me, it was the service that made us planning a repeat cruise on the flight home.

[Canal archive]

It sounds like many of the cruise companies work the same with their food service. This can only be to the good. Maybe Scenics culinaire will catch on.

[ljandgb]

My husband loves soup.  He had one of each every night.  By the end, the waiter didn't even have to ask, and just brought out both.

[Canal archive]

One our first Scenic cruise - so really learning the cruising ropes - we noticed at breakfast an Australian (absolutely lovely guy) ask if he could have a lamb chop! He got what he asked for by two, this was his go to breakfast for the rest of the cruise. We later discovered from his wife that he fought against the cruise because he thought he wouldn’t be able to have his usual breakfast but when served exactly what he required and cooked to as he considered perfection absolutely no problem. So happy family. 

[Coral]

1 hour ago, Canal archive said:

One our first Scenic cruise - so really learning the cruising ropes - we noticed at breakfast an Australian (absolutely lovely guy) ask if he could have a lamb chop! He got what he asked for by two, this was his go to breakfast for the rest of the cruise. We later discovered from his wife that he fought against the cruise because he thought he wouldn’t be able to have his usual breakfast but when served exactly what he required and cooked to as he considered perfection absolutely no problem. So happy family. 

Who the heck eats a lamb chop for breakfast!???!