Auto Gratuities- Yes or No?

[Jt4428]

14 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

And to expand on that for @yogimax the MINIMUM seafarer salary allowed for anyone working 70 hours a week is $1200 MONTHLY, as I said roughly 3 times the average pay I’m their home country.  

Just a simple question. Can you live off of $1200 monthly?  I could not.

[not-enough-cruising]

4 minutes ago, Jt4428 said:

Just a simple question. Can you live off of $1200 monthly?  I could not.

If I lived in the Philippines, I could live like a king!!

 

There are reasons you don’t see any North Americans or Western Europeans in those roles. 
 

One can not make an economic argument when one looks at the world through one homogeneous lens. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by not-enough-cruising

[time4u2go]

36 minutes ago, Seville2Cabo said:

I tip per the custom of the country / ship I am in.

How do you determine the custom of a ship?  Where the ship is registered?  Where the cruise starts?  Where the cruise ends?  The countries that are visited?

[Itried4498]

47 minutes ago, Seville2Cabo said:

I guess I don't understand why people care what service providers make.  I tip per the custom of the country / ship I am in.  In Mexico, we do the same.  We give usually 20% and the fact that the minimum wage is only $5 per day does not factor in.  Yes you can have $300 US plus meals in Cabo and we still tip the 20%, just like we would in the US.

 

When we travel, I try to understand the norm for that area and tip accordingly.  I will say that giving my bags to the porter at the ship in Sydney and not give a tip was hard for me, but our friends we were traveling with from NZ said no tip needed.

 

I will say I usually tip after services are given with 2 exceptions  -bag boys get tip since I don't want to wait and watch them clean the clubs and a few times due to FCC's there was cash to spend that could not be a OBC, so we prepaid tips.  

 

I will say I like the tipping culture.  In general when traveling to non-tipping countries, the service sucks. 

 

The point is that people follow US customs, not that of the country they’re visiting.  In the 1990s and 2000s, restaurants in places like Cancun and Punta Canta added 10% service charges to meals and tipping wasn’t expected.  But ignorant Americans decided to tip, anyway, and now tips are expected.

 

As recently as the early 2010s, a meal in Cancun at a chain restaurant was about half that of the US.  Now, those meals cost more, despite the fact that the double purchases DOUBLE the pesos…

[John&LaLa]

50 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

And to expand on that for @yogimax the MINIMUM seafarer salary allowed for anyone working 70 hours a week is $1200 MONTHLY, as I said roughly 3 times the average pay in their home country.  
 

To reiterate, all this is not to be pro or anti “auto tip”. I am just setting the record straight, and refuse to allow anyone to believe the crew are under paid and taken advantage of. 

 

Some folks think that if the crew isn't making wages similar to US citizens,  they are under paid indentured servents

[John&LaLa]

36 minutes ago, Jt4428 said:

Just a simple question. Can you live off of $1200 monthly?  I could not.

 

Many seniors in this country do

[not-enough-cruising]

8 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Some folks think that if the crew isn't making wages similar to US citizens,  they are under paid indentured servents

Thank You

This is precisely my point in post 177. 
 

Again, tip, don’t tip; I don’t care.  Don’t do it out of unfounded guilt. 

[yogimax]

8 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Many seniors in this country do

According to U.S. Census Bureau data, the median average retirement income for retirees 65 and older is $47,357. The average mean retirement income is $73,228.

[Tlbecker1]

Just now, not-enough-cruising said:

Thank You

This is precisely my point in post 177. 
 

Again, tip, don’t tip; I don’t care.  Don’t do it out of unfounded guilt. 

Exactly, tip because you want to tip because someone made your cruise extra special!

[Seville2Cabo]

10 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

The point is that people follow US customs, not that of the country they’re visiting.  In the 1990s and 2000s, restaurants in places like Cancun and Punta Canta added 10% service charges to meals and tipping wasn’t expected.  But ignorant Americans decided to tip, anyway, and now tips are expected.

 

As recently as the early 2010s, a meal in Cancun at a chain restaurant was about half that of the US.  Now, those meals cost more, despite the fact that the double purchases DOUBLE the pesos…

I think the meal prices are a factor of increased tourism.  All the ports are crazy prices.  But - if you don't mind walking a few blocks, you can still get very good prices.  My wife and I can still have lunch in Cabo with soft drinks and tip and the total is under $10.  Most tourist are afraid to leave the port area.  Same in Cozumel, if you leave the tourist area, plenty of places to get cheap food

[Seville2Cabo]

32 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

How do you determine the custom of a ship?  Where the ship is registered?  Where the cruise starts?  Where the cruise ends?  The countries that are visited?

$14.5 a day and 18% on booze

[time4u2go]

58 minutes ago, Seville2Cabo said:

$14.5 a day and 18% on booze

No matter where the ship is in the world?  Interesting.

 

What about cruises to/from countries where that is not the custom?

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by time4u2go

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, yogimax said:

According to U.S. Census Bureau data, the median average retirement income for retirees 65 and older is $47,357. The average mean retirement income is $73,228.

 

Must be nice up there in Astoria, Queens. 

 

Surprised your not more sympathetic

 

I hear of lots of folks down here getting by on 15 grand SS minimum. Some even less.

[MsMidge]

I heard their pay never changes from week to week, so the number of people who opt out of the DSC has no affect on their pay whatsoever.  Therefore, participating is like sending in a donation to the company so they can reimburse themselves for what they should be part of the fare to begin with.

[neverbeenhere]

You are wrong in what you hear. 

[Seville2Cabo]

1 hour ago, time4u2go said:

No matter where the ship is in the world?  Interesting.

 

What about cruises to/from countries where that is not the custom?

 

In general, yes. Except in those countries who’s population is not smart enough to figure it out

[yogimax]

35 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Must be nice up there in Astoria, Queens. 

 

Surprised your not more sympathetic

 

I hear of lots of folks down here getting by on 15 grand SS minimum. Some even less.

Just refuting your claim that seniors are getting by 

 

36 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Must be nice up there in Astoria, Queens. 

 

Surprised your not more sympathetic

 

I hear of lots of folks down here getting by on 15 grand SS minimum. Some even less.

Oh I am sympathetic... for the crew who are working 70 hours a week, away from their  families.

 

You claimed "many" seniors are living on $14,400 a year.  The facts don't bear that out.  Indeed, they would be eligible for all sorts of programs to boost their disposable income.

[MsMidge]

In what part of the world is it customary to give the tip to the owner to distribute as they see fit if they distribute it at all?  Nowhere.  

[time4u2go]

3 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

One can not make an economic argument when one looks at the world through one homogeneous lens. 

I am definitely seeing that this is true. People want to impose their way of doing things on others for whom it is not customary.

[Seville2Cabo]

23 minutes ago, MsMidge said:

In what part of the world is it customary to give the tip to the owner to distribute as they see fit if they distribute it at all?  Nowhere.  

What the difference between auto gratuities and leave a tip on your credit card at a restaurant. Both go to the owner for them to distribute 

[John&LaLa]

33 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Just refuting your claim that seniors are getting by 

 

Oh I am sympathetic... for the crew who are working 70 hours a week, away from their  families.

 

You claimed "many" seniors are living on $14,400 a year.  The facts don't bear that out.  Indeed, they would be eligible for all sorts of programs to boost their disposable income.

 Many is accurate.  Over 10% of the senior population live in poverty. 

That's around 13 grand for a single person

 

I love this scene from Shawshank

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by John&LaLa

[LGW59]

3 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

If I lived in the Philippines, I could live like a king!!

 

There are reasons you don’t see any North Americans or Western Europeans in those roles. 
 

One can not make an economic argument when one looks at the world through one homogeneous lens. 

One can not make an economic argument when one looks at the world through one homogeneous lens.   I do agree with what you say here.  However, that said, I do not tip anyone, anywhere, based on where they live or how much they earn.  I tip based on the level of service that I receive and with what I am comfortable with.  On land, I generally tip 25% in a restaurant.  On the ship, I do not look at the amount of the daily included gratuities of $14/15/16 or whatever dollar amount it is as determined by the stateroom one stay in as being equivalent.  To me, that $ is split among a lot of people beyond only the staff that I come in direct contact with, as a result, the servers, room stewards, butlers etc. are not IMO, receiving an equivalent tip amount as what I would do on land.  Thus, I tip the same way when I cruise as when I am at home.  I do the almost the same on a land vacation in Europe.  I know it's not expected but perhaps from force of habit or whatever, I really don't spend a lot of time over thinking it, I just do as I am comfortable.  Folks should really just do the same, there is no one size fits all, I just personally think a little something extra, in most instances is very warranted. 

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, LGW59 said:

One can not make an economic argument when one looks at the world through one homogeneous lens.   I do agree with what you say here.  However, that said, I do not tip anyone, anywhere, based on where they live or how much they earn.  I tip based on the level of service that I receive and with what I am comfortable with.  On land, I generally tip 25% in a restaurant.  On the ship, I do not look at the amount of the daily included gratuities of $14/15/16 or whatever dollar amount it is as determined by the stateroom one stay in as being equivalent.  To me, that $ is split among a lot of people beyond only the staff that I come in direct contact with, as a result, the servers, room stewards, butlers etc. are not IMO, receiving an equivalent tip amount as what I would do on land.  Thus, I tip the same way when I cruise as when I am at home.  I do the almost the same on a land vacation in Europe.  I know it's not expected but perhaps from force of habit or whatever, I really don't spend a lot of time over thinking it, I just do as I am comfortable.  Folks should really just do the same, there is no one size fits all, I just personally think a little something extra, in most instances is very warranted. 

Do you tip the plumber or HVAC technician that comes to your home?

What about your automobile mechanic?

 

 

I definitely agree with your statement that one must do what is most comfortable to them, I respect your well thought, well articulated post.

[snaefell]

7 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Must be nice up there in Astoria, Queens. 

 

Surprised your not more sympathetic

 

I hear of lots of folks down here getting by on 15 grand SS minimum. Some even less.

Less than £9000 pa here in the UK for my Wife's pension & that is quite a bit more than mine!

All after 50+ years of working!

Edited July 10, 2022 by snaefell

[the penguins]

10 hours ago, time4u2go said:

I am definitely seeing that this is true. People want to impose their way of doing things on others for whom it is not customary.

Some of the arguments seem to be more like a magicians speil all smoke and mirrors.

To cover various points raised;

1) pay in other countries is irrelevant.

2) ships operate to their own rules. Roya's includes "auto tips".

3) Royal does make it clear about its tipping policy. Booking condition 13 (in the UK) is headed:

What are onboard service charges/tips "

and states they " will  add daily gratuities to each guests sea pass account" - it could not be clearer.

4) if anyone doesn't accept auto typing don't book with Royal.

By all means campaign against auto tiping directly with Royals Management.

Will this work?

Who knows but  Celebrity passengers have successfully campaiged against Celebrity's compolsary AI pricing and now all cruises are available with cruise only and AI options.

In the meantime accept that removing auto tips impacts on the earnings of some staff. Tip extra if you want depending on service - we do that.

Above all enjoy your cruises.