Hotel charges (nee gratuities /tips)

[Windsurfboy]

I have just been belatedly reading new brochures. 

 

I see Gratuities have been renamed Hotel charges,  and there is no mention of being able to cancel them. In one way this is completely irrelevant as I never have or neverbwould contemplate cancellation of  auto tips. 

 

However this is a change in terms and conditions since I  booked.

 

Secondly I thought under British consumer law , all compulsory charges must be shown up front at time of booking and included in the quote for total fare. Are Cunard breaking law? Or just hiding fact that they are removable.

 

I say again I never have and never would remove them . I just don't like idea of any company playing fast and loose with T&Cs. Clearly if these charged are compulsory just include them in fare.

 

Please don't make this into a debate about gratuities,  my debate is about changes in T&Cs after you have booked and is Cunard breaking UK consumer law by not including compulsory charges in the fare at time of booking.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Windsurfboy

[Host Hattie]

They've been called that for a few years

[Windsurfboy]

It's the fact that they now seem to be non removable that is the change in T&Cs that is important. Hence should be part of the fare.

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Windsurfboy

[Host Hattie]

I'm not sure where you are seeing that, the website says -

 

"During your time on board, you’re certain to receive our famous White Star service from all of our crew. Additionally, there are many more people behind the scenes supporting those who look after you directly. For your convenience, a Hotel and Dining charge will be automatically added to your on board account.

 

This charge, which varies for Grills and Britannia guests, will be shared amongst those crew members who helped provide and support your holiday experience, including the restaurant and accommodation staff, stateroom and buffet stewards and others. You can amend these charges any way you wish by contacting the Purser’s Office once on board.

 

For all bar and wine purchases, a 15% service charge is added to your account and this is shared amongst the beverage staff. A 12.5% salon service charge is passed directly to the crew member who has looked after you. This charge is also automatically added to your on board account.

 

Naturally, you are free to tip any member of the crew over and above these amounts, at your discretion."

[Windsurfboy]

The printed  Brochure  is exactly the same EXCEPT : The sentence "You can amend these charges anyway you like by contacting the Pursers office " . Is completely  ABSENT.

 

Amending these charges is NOT mentioned in the brochure 

[Host Hattie]

Interesting, I guess someone who has tried to change them might report back.

[Windsurfboy]

Just for completeness here is brochure that arrived yesterday 

[bluemarble]

Just a note to say as of now the wording in Cunard's Passage Contract for North America remains unchanged. Here's a pertinent quote from that document.

 

'A "Hotel and Dining Service Charge" will be automatically added to Your onboard account, which is discretionary and guests have the freedom to adjust these amounts while onboard...'

 

The date on the document indicates "Updated August 2021" so it hasn't been revised since the date of the resumption of cruising.

[sfred]

FWIW, the Australia T&Cs (as of 6 June 2022) are similar to the US. (Bolding added by me).

 

12. Hotel and Dining Charges (Gratuities)  During the cruise, guests will experience excellent service from members of Our crew in a variety of locations. In addition, many more crew behind the scenes support those who serve guests directly. For Our guest’s convenience, a Hotel and Dining charge will be automatically added to their shipboard account on a daily basis. Grill categories will be charged US$13.50 per guest per day and Britannia categories US$11.50 per guest per day. These amounts are subject to change and guests may choose to alter or remove these amounts at their discretion. A 15% charge is automatically added to a guest’s onboard account for Bar, Wine & Salon/Spa services for each purchase.

 

[LB_NJ]

FYI, brochures and FAQs are usually shortened versions of what is in the contract.

 

The passage contract always controls.  I.e., if the FAQs or brochure say one thing and the contract says another the contract prevails.

[IB2]

On 7/8/2022 at 7:59 PM, Windsurfboy said:

Just for completeness here is brochure that arrived yesterday 

"to eliminate the need for tipping"....yet so many still do it.

[exlondoner]

2 hours ago, LB_NJ said:

FYI, brochures and FAQs are usually shortened versions of what is in the contract.

 

The passage contract always controls.  I.e., if the FAQs or brochure say one thing and the contract says another the contract prevails.

 

I'm not sure that necessarily applies in U.K. Consumer law. Companies have failed to get away with major conditions that are hidden away within pages of verbiage without being highlighted else where.

[8611202]

Interestingly on our last QM2 voyage in May, several members of the crew, when chatting about how Covid affected them and the industry, said that Cunard had changed their contracts post pandemic and they would no longer be receiving a share of the hotel and dining service charge, with all charges going directly to the company. 

Has anyone else heard this?

[BklynBoy8]

7 hours ago, IB2 said:

"to eliminate the need for tipping"....yet so many still do it.

 

We are sailing on Sept 23 and did not get a brochure.

 

When are you sailing? Would not want to miss out receiving it. Thank you.

 

Could be very informative...

[Guppy99]

9 hours ago, exlondoner said:

 

I'm not sure that necessarily applies in U.K. Consumer law. Companies have failed to get away with major conditions that are hidden away within pages of verbiage without being highlighted else where.

Basic contract law. Contract is the ONLY thing that ultimately matters.

[RJChatsworth]

5 hours ago, 8611202 said:

Interestingly on our last QM2 voyage in May, several members of the crew, when chatting about how Covid affected them and the industry, said that Cunard had changed their contracts post pandemic and they would no longer be receiving a share of the hotel and dining service charge, with all charges going directly to the company. 

Has anyone else heard this?

Before the pandemic I was under the impression that Cunard guaranteed the crew a percentage of the collectible tips/service charge even if this amount was not achieved because of the number of passengers deleting the charges when onboard.  Could it be that Cunard has now reflected this in the crew contracts as a matter of course?  If so this might give the impression that all the charges now go to the company.

[exlondoner]

12 minutes ago, Guppy99 said:

Basic contract law. Contract is the ONLY thing that ultimately matters.

 

Even where the terms are deemed unfair?

[LB_NJ]

2 hours ago, exlondoner said:

 

Even where the terms are deemed unfair?

 

It depends on how unfair and the specific laws of the state or country governing the contract.

 

While I believe that "gratuities" should be included in the base price of the fare because I see it as more open marketing, I am not sure how they would be considered "unfair."  

[exlondoner]

2 minutes ago, LB_NJ said:

 

It depends on how unfair and the specific laws of the state or country governing the contract.

 

While I believe that "gratuities" should be included in the base price of the fare because I see it as more open marketing, I am not sure how they would be considered "unfair."  

 

I was talking generally about the possible limits of contracts. I can't see anything particularly unfair about Cunard having different offers in different countries.

[LB_NJ]

3 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

 

I was talking generally about the possible limits of contracts. I can't see anything particularly unfair about Cunard having different offers in different countries.

There are limits on contracts that vary by state and country however, what you are asking usually takes about a half semester of a 1st year law school basic class on contracts to go through.

[Guppy99]

5 hours ago, exlondoner said:

 

Even where the terms are deemed unfair?

Depends upon who would deem it unfair. A court would have to rule it unfair.  Nothing I've read would deem this to be unfair at all. 

[BigMac1953]

Surely it depends on the law in the country where the ship is registered?

[Windsurfboy]

On 8/2/2022 at 5:35 AM, LB_NJ said:

FYI, brochures and FAQs are usually shortened versions of what is in the contract.

 

The passage contract always controls.  I.e., if the FAQs or brochure say one thing and the contract says another the contract prevails.

 

In the UK under our consumer protection law it is the information in the brochure that prevails, this being the basis upon which the consumer entered into the agreement. The contract  ie t&cs should be contained in the brochure. 

 

The only way this would be overwritten , and that terms and conditions applied that are different to those in brochure , was if the consumer was given a copy of the contract to read and sign. On all financial transactions e.g opening bank account , done on internet now in UK  ,  they force consumer to download the contact/t&cs and you can't proceed unless you do this.

 

If you book with Cunard (directly ) it's either via phone based on info in brochure,  or on internet based on information easily found by you,  as you book. Cunard website doesn't ask you to read t&cs and doesn't check you have at least downloaded them. So if t&cs contradicts brochure /website , its the information that consumer is presented with on booking that prevails.

 

However I'm sure that forgetting to say hotel charges can be removed in the brochure is just a typical Cunard HO lack of attention to detail. If not it is breaking UK law as it should be added into price quoted.

[Windsurfboy]

10 hours ago, BigMac1953 said:

Surely it depends on the law in the country where the ship is registered?

 

No it depends on the law in country where the cruise is marketed.

 

UK law in UK, US in US , German in Germany,  hence why Germans must opt into hotel charges , versus UK and US who can opt out

[LB_NJ]

10 hours ago, BigMac1953 said:

Surely it depends on the law in the country where the ship is registered?

Almost never where the ship is registered.   Many contracts have a choice of law clause that says what country/state laws govern.  Additionally, a lot of contracts require binding arbitration for at least some.

 

Next time you cruise take a close look at the contract.  You may be surprised.